1. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxman16. Show soxman16's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    I Echo dansdad69. I think a lot of the problem is the Boston fans themselves as a very tough crowd. I will say what I have said several times. With the exception of Manny and the McCormick pathetic act I can't get over a city bashing him with the manny being manny. I am over the Manny trade and have moved on and still a die hard sox fan and I am following Manny on MLB extra innings since I will always admire manny as a ballplayer and legend.

    The Manny did not hustle and try is just a bunch of BS and playing hurt is a bunch of BS. I wont open up a can of worms here but take a look at last nights game in Baltimore, there were a couple of players dogging it down first base last night.. how about the DL list right now? Drew, Lowell etc. Are they giving up on the team now?

    Getting back to the subject, Bay has been great and has exceeded all of his expectations i believe. He will NEVER be a Manny and I am glad to see Manny is loving LA. His teamates do love him. Dlowe said he always enjoyed Manny as a teammate as well as Nomar said the same thing!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ct-pitcher. Show ct-pitcher's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited


    yeah, he's one classy guy.

    MO PUTS MANNY IN HIS PLACE

    By DAN MARTIN
    Last updated: 7:08 am
    July 7, 2008
    Posted: 2:56 am
    July 7, 2008
    Mariano RiveraMariano Rivera saw Rob Thomson jog out to talk things over with two out in the top of the ninth, the potential winning run on third and Manny Ramirez coming up as a pinch hitter.
    But there was never any debate about what he was going to do.
    "We discussed walking him, but it was never a consideration," Rivera said. "It was my decision. I just had to get him out, it was simple as that."
    Though it may have seemed a reasonable option, considering what Ramirez has done to the Yankees and Rivera in the past, the closer seemed baffled by the notion of giving him a free pass.
    "Why?" Rivera said after pitching two scoreless innings and earning his third win of the year in the YanksNew York Yankees ' 5-4, 10-inning win over Boston last night, their second straight over their AL East rivals. "There's no reason to do that. Just go at him, it's as simple as that."
    So a day after hitting two batters for the first time in his career and having to escape a bases-loaded no out jam to pick up the save, Rivera was as confident as ever.
    It paid off. Rivera threw Ramirez three fastballs, the first on the inside corner, the second two on the outside corner - and the slugger never swung. Just like that, the threat was over.
    Even Rivera was baffled by Ramirez's lack of action.
    On Saturday, it took Rivera until a run was in and the bases were loaded with one out to return to form.
    "I was kind of surprised, definitely, that he never took the bat off his shoulder," Rivera said. "I don't know what he was thinking. That's Manny."
    And that's Rivera. He threw two scoreless innings, retiring five straight after Sean Casey's bloop single to center to start the ninth. He didn't provide quite the drama he did in the win on Friday, which was fine with him.
    "Tonight was more where I wanted to put the ball," Rivera said.
    The Yankees were glad to see it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Firefligh. Show Firefligh's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    All who love Manny should read this. And be happy for him.

    There continue to be surprises from Dodgers' Manny Ramirez


    http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers21-2008aug21,0,6490201.column
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ct-pitcher. Show ct-pitcher's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    [Quote]

    Manny must be the first hitter that the great Mariano ever struck out on three straight pitches. Yup, the Elias Sports Bureau is checking, but clowns like CTpitcher are pretty sure they know the answer.

    Pinheads!

    [/Quote]

    You Manny sycophants will never get it. Bob Lobel, the former sports director of the Boston-based WBZ, while reporting on the six-figure fine Ramirez received for shoving Jack McCormick, had some choice words to say this morning. Silva reports:

    [Lobel] went on to allege that there was a perception that in a pinch-hit at bat at Yankee Stadium on July 6 — more than a week after the incident with McCormick — Ramirez took three straight called strikes to send a message to the Sox.

    “The thing that most people are forgetting and haven’t talked about is the strikeout in Yankee Stadium,” Lobel said. “The bat on the shoulder for the three pitches from Mariano Rivera. That was a big [expletive] to the Red Sox after the fine. I’m just telling you … there are things in the front office that are perceived … I’m saying that there is a strong feeling that that [three-pitch strikeout] was the message to the Red Sox and it’s a strong feeling that that’s unacceptable … there’s a feeling that he didn’t give it his all, let’s put it that way … I’m just saying the front office has not forgotten that moment. It’s akin to Nomar sitting on the bench. It’s the same thing. It’s an at bat that resonated very strongly in the front office.”


    Oh wait! Manny stole a base today...his aching knees are miraculously healed.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxman16. Show soxman16's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    Good article Firefligh.. thanks!

    If he decides that he wants to stay in LA, he will fit in nicely with the Dodgers. The Dodgers have a great group on guys and from what I hear they all love him.He is obviously on his best behavior out in LA but I believe the true Manny is a fun easy going guy to hang out with. Like anyone else, he can snap and unfortunatley that happened in Boston.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Firefligh. Show Firefligh's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    [Quote][Quote]
    Manny must be the first hitter that the great Mariano ever struck out on three straight pitches. Yup, the Elias Sports Bureau is checking, but clowns like CTpitcher are pretty sure they know the answer.
    Pinheads!
    [/Quote]

    You Manny sycophants will never get it. Bob Lobel, the former sports director of the Boston-based WBZ, while reporting on the six-figure fine Ramirez received for shoving Jack McCormick, had some choice words to say this morning. Silva reports:

    [Lobel] went on to allege that there was a perception that in a pinch-hit at bat at Yankee Stadium on July 6 — more than a week after the incident with McCormick — Ramirez took three straight called strikes to send a message to the Sox.
    “The thing that most people are forgetting and haven’t talked about is the strikeout in Yankee Stadium,” Lobel said. “The bat on the shoulder for the three pitches from Mariano Rivera. That was a big [expletive] to the Red Sox after the fine. I’m just telling you … there are things in the front office that are perceived … I’m saying that there is a strong feeling that that [three-pitch strikeout] was the message to the Red Sox and it’s a strong feeling that that’s unacceptable … there’s a feeling that he didn’t give it his all, let’s put it that way … I’m just saying the front office has not forgotten that moment. It’s akin to Nomar sitting on the bench. It’s the same thing. It’s an at bat that resonated very strongly in the front office.”



    Oh wait! Manny stole a base today...his aching knees are miraculously healed.

    [/Quote]

    This story was totally debunked by Gordon Edes. Lobel was so discredited he does not even get asked to guest host on the hate barrages at EEI anymore.

    I guess it's still of interest who set up the poor old fool, Theo or Larry (Chad Finn thinks LL) but the fact is the notion Manny tanked that at-bat because he was angry about a 100,000 fine for the McCormick affair has been disproven.

    Manny accepted both aspects of his punishment humbly - the anger managmenet (which of course he will no longer need as no one is trying to drive him batty) and the fine.

    Manny himself told TJ Simers the fine part of the punishment was 40K, 10 grand each to four charities of his choosing, one of which is Joe Torre''s favorite. :)

    He was not ticked off about the punishment, and did not tank an at-bat because of it.

    Try to keep up. This was a FO leak of a FO LIE. Poor Lobel got caught in the crossfire.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ct-pitcher. Show ct-pitcher's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    Cleveland-Boston-LA-Whomever- same guy, money always the underlying issue. This is what happened when he was in Cleveland

    Ramirez Rejects Tribe Offer

    CLEVELAND

    (AP) Get your checkbooks and pens ready, Manny's headed for the market.

    Manny Ramirez's agent, Jeff Moorad, turned down Cleveland's seven-year, $119 million contract offer to re-sign Friday and said he would take the outfielder onto the free agent market.

    "It's not a deal that's going to come together at this point," Moorad said Friday night from his office in Newport Beach, Calif.

    On Thursday, the Indians countered Moorad's $200 million contract demand over 10 years with a seven-year proposal that would have made Ramirez baseball's highest-paid player at more than $17 million per season.

    Moorad said he had a "lengthy" discussion with Indians general manager John Hart on Friday afternoon, and the sides agreed they would talk again.

    "It's fair to say we are going to keep an open line of communication," Moorad said. "We are both going to explore our alternatives, and at the same time stay in touch."

    Hart, who is in Florida, did not immediately return a phone message seeking comment.

    The Indians lost their exclusive negotiating rights with Ramirez at midnight Friday, freeing the 28-year-old All-Star right fielder to negotiate salary with any team.

    Moorad said he spoke with Ramirez and explained the Indians' proposal and what it meant if they turned it down.

    "We went over it in detail," Moorad said. "We also had a thorough discussion about the risks involved in testing the market and the risks that Cleveland may go in another direction. I wish we could buy some time."

    Cleveland's offer was well below the $200 million package Moorad submitted on Nov. 3, but it is still the largest in baseball history. In 1998, pitcher Kevin Brown signed a seven-year, $105 million deal with the Los Angeles Dodgers.

    Indians owner Larry Dolan surprised many in baseball with the size of his contract proposal for Ramirez, whose 432 RBIs in the last three years are the most by any AL player.

    The club has never signed a player to a contract of more than $9 million per season, and the largest total package it has ever paid was the four-year, $32 million deal second baseman Roberto Alomar signed before the 1999 season.

    Moorad has scheduled meetings with two unidentified teams for next week at his California offices, leading to speculation that Ramirez would sign elsewhere.

    There are reports that the two teams are the New York Yankees and Seattle Mariners. The three-time defending World Series champion Yankees are believed to have made Ramirez their No. 1 target during free agency.

    Ramirez grew up in New York, but in the past has given mixed signals about whether or not he wants to play in his hometown.

    Moorad would not identify the teams, but said he was confident there would be others interested in his client's services.

    "There appears to be a broad enough market that we are confident we're going to be able to find a home for Manny if it's not in Cleveland," Moorad said.

    The Indians have said they would continue talking to Moorad even if Ramirez rejects their new proposal and tests the market, but that they wouldn't wait long before signing other free agents.

    Ramirez batted .351 with 38 homers and 122 RBIs in just 118 games last season. He missed 39 games with a hamstring injury and, while he was out, the Indians went 19-20 and watched the Chicago White Sox open an insurmountable lead in the AL Central.

    Hart and assistant GM Mark Shapiro spent the past few days at baseball meetings in Florida talking to agents about potential players to bring to Cleveland.

    Ellis Burks, who hit .340 for San Francisco, could be an option for the Indians in right field if Ramirez leaves. The club also is interested in talking with right-hander Mike Mussina.

    Cleveland's other free agents, catcher Sandy Alomar Jr., first baseman David Segui and pitcher Jason Bere can all talk with other teams beginning Saturday.

    The Indians want to re-sign Alomar, and could again become a player in getting Segui if Ramirez bolts.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Firefligh. Show Firefligh's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    Big deal.

    The Manny move to Boston from Cleveland at the end of his contract was notable for the money he would command - and the ESPN show following Moorad around during the negotiations. But it was not in any way controversial - 24 left when his contract was up - that wasn't exactly 'news' - and he earned his big Boston contract with the numbers he put up in Cleveland. BIG money, yes - but we are after all, talking arguably the best right handed hitter IN BASEBALL HISTORY - (anyone see Mike and Mike this morning...how many career RBIs is it now, how many slugging points above Henry Aaron?)

    If you want to see a consistently interesting contract-leave taking history, see JD Drew.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from ct-pitcher. Show ct-pitcher's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    So far no one has expressed a near-stroke here over Drew - only Manny. The point is, it's obvious he wanted a new deal, out of his last two years of team options and to test the free agency market.

    How that adds up to some error on management's part is beyond logic, unless someone expected the Sox to leave Manny a blank check and tell him to fill in whatever number he wanted in exchange for showing up most of the time.

    He left Cleveland for more money after turning down their offer. He wanted out of Boston.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from elccpa24. Show elccpa24's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    CT Pitcher

    Well I guess because some guy said something about Manny,the none movement of the bat, and the 6 FIGURE FINE (r u kidding me), then it must totally be true. I mean nobody's ever said anything false or deragatory about anyone else that wasn't really absolutely true because you can't do that when you're on the radio right!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ocram. Show ocram's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    good topic, the trade revisited. from a baseball standpoint it was a terrible trade.

    3 players & 7 million for Jason Bay.

    understanding that they had to move Ramirez, it still was a bad deal. I would have been ok with the deal if they got a relief pitcher along with Bay. This is where the sox need the most help!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3007291. Show user_3007291's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    "If they don't make the playoffs, the reason is because of this trade".

    Captain, you may be correct with this statement, but not necessarily for the reason you think. I think most people believe that Theo dropped the ball at the trading deadline by not improving the bull pen. I thought then and still believe the bull pen is the Team's weakest link.

    Maybe he could have accomplished this if he didn't have to spend so much time trying to move Manny. Who's to say? I say this knowing I risk being accused again, of supporting Theo and the FO. But it is what it is. The offense will be fine, the pitching..........?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ct-pitcher. Show ct-pitcher's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    [Quote] Ctpitcher should change his name to CtBitcher. All he does is post out-of-date stories on Manny from such great (LOL) sources as Bob Lobel.
    He must have a real dull life if all he can do is find fault with a guy who has done as much, or more, for the Red Sox since 2001, and who helped deliver two World Series.
    Long after CtBitcher has ceased to exist, there will still be a plaque in Cooperstown for Manny.
    [/Quote]

    And long after your asskissing of Manny ends, he'll still be the guy who wanted out of his contract - off the team and out of the city to pursue a better deal elsewhere. Someday you'll wake up and realize he chose to end his days in Boston and no amount of bloviating on your part changes that fact.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3007291. Show user_3007291's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    Captain,

    We have discussed this at great length. So much speculation as to what the FO was thinking, and what Manny's frame of mind was at the time of the trade. I don't care either way. He's gone because he needed the Sox to give him the "security", and piece of mind that comes with a long term guaranteed contract. They chose to exercise their contractual right to address it after the season. And sure, they probably were not going to exercise both options at once.

    Completing a 200 million $ contract over 10 years became an issue for Manny. He wanted to remain a Red Sox, but only on his terms. The lines were drawn over the character issue. To some, Manny is a quitter, and a selfish me first kind of guy. To others the FO (Theo primarily) is a duplicitous cold-hearted bottom line "business is business" entity. Just a bad marriage that had to end for the sake of the children (Red Sox Fans).
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from mannimota. Show mannimota's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    Manny wanted out of Boston as far back as 2002. Hell, his first words to Henry were allegedly, "You gotta get me out of here" or something to that effect. Let's face it, Boston and NY are difficult places to play. The pressure to win is much more intense. I'm sure LA is a good respite for Manny. Folks out there are a little more laid back, or so I've heard.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ocram. Show ocram's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    i think its better to take a cautious approach, the sox are falling apart with injuries, Lowell, Drew, Beckett. and they are playing a soft schedule right now.

    curb your enthusiasm until they play some quality opponents. the sox/rays during the season will say all you need to know about the 08 Red Sox. The Rays keep winning despite their injuries, lets hope the Sox will do the same.

    its still a bad baseball trade.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    The Manny haters have ruined the dynasaty,
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    They could have had Mahay for Moss but they had to hang on to Moss to make the deal for Bay.

    And that is important because-

    1-Mahay is injured.

    2-Mahay's August ERA is a miniscule 36.00.

    So we either get Bay, who is playing AS caliber BB, or a guy with an ERA of 36 this month. Hmmm, let me get back to you on that one.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    All who love Manny should read this. And be happy for him.

    I've always liked Manny, but the article is pretty meaningless. His agent sets up an interview with a writer so that Manny can tell him what a wonderful guy he is? A FA playing for his next contract and being on his best behavior is not exactly headline news.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    They were leading the wild card when Manny left. Where are they now?

    We're still leading the WC, and we are 14-7 since the Bay trade. If we continue to play .667 BB, then I'll learn to live with it.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dreamer007. Show dreamer007's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    in the wee hours of the a.m. on 7-31-08, i was afraid that manny
    would NOT be traded...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ocram. Show ocram's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    all things the same a 67% PCT will not get them the AL East, probably the wild card though, no guarantees.

    Ready for the postseason against the Angels with 3 in Anaheim? possibly the worst possible matchup they could get. Excluding past history; Angels are a much different team from previous years.

    lets hope injuries & pitching staff can rebound.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MannyManic. Show MannyManic's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-simers21-2008aug21,0,6490201.column

    From Simers' column link: He's nothing like the bitter folks describe him in Boston, the e-mail continuing to pour in, "just wait," they say -- the Red Sox apparently no longer as interesting to watch, so Boston fans needing to do something with their time.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    Ready for the postseason against the Angels with 3 in Anaheim? possibly the worst possible matchup they could get. Excluding past history; Angels are a much different team from previous years.

    I'd like to play #5 at the Fens, but other than that, I see no reason to be pessimistic. If there is a problem with Beckett, we're probably in a lot of trouble against anyone. But if the good Beckett returns, then I'm pretty comfortable with Beckett starting games 1 & 5 against LAA. In some ways, we're better off with the WC and having Beckett in 2 of the 5 games, instead of having Beckett in 2 of 7 games.

    As for LAA, they don't seem much different than previous years' versions. We outscore them by .50 and their pitching is better by only .06. All PO opponents need to be respected, but they are not materially better than anyone else.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from deggy24. Show deggy24's posts

    ramirez-bay revisited

    Some fact based data as of this morning:
    Manny OPS in LA: 1137 ops
    Bay OPS in Boston: 950 ops

    Here is a good one which shows the Zone Ratings have been screwed up since they were redone after O'Leary showed so well:

    Manny Zone Rating with LA: 917
    Bay Zone Rating with Boston: 714

    Will Bay hit a walk-off playoff game homer or bottom of the ninth homer off K-Rod (Manny did the latter in his third last game)?????
     

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