1. You have chosen to ignore posts from woobie2. Show woobie2's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    I will say for the hundredth time that Santana is NOT worth 4-5 of the top prospects/players in the league. Definitely NOT Ellsbury, under any circumstances.

    Twins are now dealing with less strength since their attempt to play Sox against NY seems to have fizzled. I hate to part with Lester, but I would, plus a couple of minor leaguers and Crisp. That would be my final offer. Unless NY does an about face, they won't get much more in any trade since Santana will command a king's ransom to re-sign.

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from woobie2. Show woobie2's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Your fine post makes sense. However, I still cannot willingly part with Ellsbury. I see him as the next superstar in the A.L. in the mold of a Tony C. or Freddy Lynne. Not that they are similar players, just that he has that kind of impact and could easily remain with this team for years to come. Look, we spent almost all of 2007 looking for a lead off hitter, after Crisp failed miserably for 2 years to be one. I cannot justify trading this kid away for anyone - he answers several needs here.

    Don't forget, Santana will want a record-breaking contract and as a pitcher, could throw a pitch and be out the rest of the year. And we would have given up 4 top players - two already having played in the big leagues in a WS year. I would even reluctantly part with Buccholz, the owner of a no hitter in his rookie year! But not Jacoby.

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from slimdrumplus. Show slimdrumplus's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    The Tigers CAbrera-Willis deal leaves no options to Sox about Santana. It is a do or die situation regarding next october world championship... So go for it Sox at any cost... The yanks signing Pettite makes it worst... So no alternative Theo, just go for Santana ┤cause we need to keep the crown for many years to come...


  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from sjddaj. Show sjddaj's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    We will be fine no matter what happens. That is what is so great about the scenario. It is a win-win situation.

    Money aside, I would trade the "Lester package". We still keep Ellsbury and therefore don't even need Crisp. and with us then having 5 quality and fairly young starters, we won't really miss Lester or Masterson. As it is, we are trying to find room for everyone and talking a 6-man rotation. That is not even counting the emergence of Masterson or even Bowden in the next couple of years.

    When they are ready, we are still going to have at least 4 quality starters on our team. Where are we going to find room for all of them? We have a surplus in one area and I can't think of a much better option to go after with our surplus than Santana.

    So, unless something else falls into place (like a smaller trade involving Crisp and others to get a a great catching prospect or other areas of need) I don't see any problem with the trade using the "Lester package". Again, that is money aside.

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stats44. Show stats44's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    A pitcher like Santana even thou he's got great numbers you're dealing with a pitcher who could have arm trouble at any time. I wouldn't give any pitcher a long term contract for the kind of money Santana wants.

    What the Sox do need is a good catcher for the future. They've got enough pitching.

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from johndwalsh7. Show johndwalsh7's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    You have to make this deal. No scenario are they giving up too much. Prospect are just that - prospects. Maybe they'll be great one day. But Carl Pavano & Tony Armas seemed like a high price 10 years ago ... and that worked out pretty good for the Sox. Let's not forget all the people who didn't like the idea of the Celtics trading Al Jefferson to get Kevin Garnett - haven't heard anything from those people recently, have you?

    It's freaking Johan Santana! He turns 29 next March! By the time his 5 or 6 year extension is up, the Sox are going to have new "can't miss" prospects that'll be ready. Also, Ortiz, Manny, Lowell & Varitek aren't getting any younger - the time is now to ride this older offensive core with the best pitching staff money can buy, and try to win a few more World Series before they have to go out and improve the offense.

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from donnybaseball. Show donnybaseball's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Red Sox Nation should keep in mind the pieces they are offering to this deal and, once again, where the team is on its developmental cycle. You guys are at your peak. You are in the win now phase. I still think the Twins over reached with the Yankees and now they see that they lost the best deal they were going to get. From my perspective, Lester is no more than a number 3 starter, Coco Crispe is way over rated, and Lowrie is the best offer from the farm. Ellsbury looks to me like a keeper, at least to the last minute. But if I am in charge of pulling the trigger folks, I would. Boston is the best team in baseball on paper. They are prohibitive favorites to win the AL East and another World Championship. But they must do it now! You can't replace a Manny Ramirez or a David Ortiz when they go south in the next few years. It takes a lot of luck to find someone who not only has the numbers but also has that magic of being the clutch hitter who gets the clutch hit in the must situation. And THAT is what winning a world championship--the clutch hit, the clutch play at the point where the series hangs in the balance is all about. Who of all the names mentioned as Red Sox candidates for this trade fits that bill at this point? Are you ready to put Ellsbury in the Hall of Fame after a half season?

    Think about it. Boston needs to make this happen. (And I say that knowing how much that would pain my pinstriped soul). Take it from me--you can't buy a pennant when the championship veterans retire or are discarded in their non productive end years.

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from faninexile. Show faninexile's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    I never wanted to see sox lose so much to get Santana. I wanted to see an all out effort to get Miquel Cabrebra to replace Manny in a couple years. Catcher is also something they need. I've been a sox fan since watching them with my dad in the impossible dream year of '67. At the present they probably have the best pitching staff i've ever seen on the team and will get better as the young arms get more experience. Offense is going down a little and an injury to Ortiz could be devestating if Manny hits like last year and worse. This is one more reason I don't want to see Ellsbury go. He could be the best leadoff hitter i've seen on the Sox. Followed by Pedroia and the big bats, he could almost be as devestating as Ricky Henderson considering his speed and what looks to be a very good on base percentage (of course, without Henderson's power). He gets on, he scores. The value of a true, very good leadoff hitter should not be underestimated. I have thought all along Sox' pitching staff will only gain 3-5 more wins at the most with Santana.

    Guess i'm looking at this with a more patient attitude than many others. I don't need a championship every year like Yankee fans. After living close to 50 years without seeing the Sox win i can wait a few years if necessary. True, pitching wins championships but the sox never won until they got balance from pitching, hitting, defense and speed. True with most championship teams. Just don't underestimate the present pitching staff. I just want to make sure we don't weaken ourselves (like i'm part of the organization, lol) in other facets of the game to get a few more guaranteed wins throughout the season.

    Of course, like everyone else posting here, just my opinion. Whatever happens, gooooo Sox!!!
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tedhead. Show tedhead's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    I agree. What's in it for Santana to sign now, unless he can get big, big money?

    Come next fall, there will be several teams bidding for him. Unless he has a physical issue we don't know about at present.

    A lot can happen in a year, he is worth big money now. Santana can hit a big payday without risk of having a sub-par year or an injury.

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from northeastern1. Show northeastern1's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Good points about the the aging hitters which is part of the reason I say they have to keep Ellsbury. I wouldnt mind getting rid of Lester as he coco and the two prospects. only lester and coco would create an immediate void which would be filled by Santana and Ellsbury. One of the best pitchers for a potentially good pitcher & a gold glove caliber outfielder low on offense for a fast leadoff hitter with great potential. Santana's 20million plus might restrict the Sox from other deals in the future due to payroll. Not to mention 150+ for 6 years is a huge liability for the Sox if Santana's numbers decline or if he gets injured.

    And I just dont think you can get rid of Ellsbury. I know he only spent a month with the Sox and only played in a few playoff games, but his potential is too high. Not only did he already prove he can hit under pressure in the big leagues, but also in the playoffs (unlike A-Rod). I see Ellsbury as a fan favorite with huge marketing potential. Immediatly upon joining the Sox, Ellsbury t-shirts were flying off the shelves and girl all over Fenway had their "Marry me Jacoby" signs out. I see him as a player that can be very valuable on the field and financially for the Sox. He reminds me of a mini Nomar or a mix between Nomar and Johnny Damon, remember how popular they were?

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from northeastern1. Show northeastern1's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    very true, the Sox didnt need those come from behind when Josh Beckett was on the Mound. He dominated the playoffs and was that one guaranteed victory evertime (at least in my mind). having both Beckett and Santana in the playoffs would be NASTY!
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from gabootwo2006. Show gabootwo2006's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    The way I see it if the Johan Santana deal goes down. Here are the lineups as I see them depending of what deal the Twins take.

    (l) SP - Johan Santana

    (r) SP - Josh Beckett

    (r) SP - Duisuke Matsuzaka

    (r) SP - Tim Wakefield

    (r) SP - Clay Buchholz/Jon Lester - depending on which deal the Twins take

    (r) CL - Jonathan Papelbon

    (l) RP - Hideki Okajima

    (r) RP - Mike Timlin

    (r) RP - Manny Delcarmen

    (l) RP - (open roster spot to be filled in offseason)

    (r) RP - (open roster spot to be filled in offseason)

    (r) RP - (open roster spot to be filled in offseason)

    (r) SS - Julio Lugo (l) CF - Jacoby Ellsbury

    (r) 2B - Dustin Pedrioa (r) 2B - Dustin Pedroia

    (l) DH - David Ortiz (l) DH - David Ortiz

    (r) LF - Manny Ramirez (r) LF - Manny Ramirez

    (r) 3B - Mike Lowell (r) 3B - Mike Lowell

    (l) RF - J.D. Drew (l) RF - J.D. Drew

    (r) 1B - Kevin Youkilis (r) 1B - Kevin Youkilis

    (s) C - Jason Veritek (s) C - Jason Veritek

    (s) CF - Coco Crisp (r) SS - Julio Lugo

    (l) 2B-SS - Alex Cora

    (l) OF - Brandon Moss

    C - (open roster spot to be filled in offseason)

    1B - 3B - (open roster spot to be filled in offseason)

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from eddiewilson. Show eddiewilson's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Posted by slimdrum.45 on 8:25 AM
    The Tigers CAbrera-Willis deal leaves no options to Sox about Santana. It is a do or die situation regarding next october world championship... So go for it Sox at any cost... The yanks signing Pettite makes it worst... So no alternative Theo, just go for Santana ┤cause we need to keep the crown for many years to come...

    NO REGRETS PLEASE, NO SECOND GUESSING, JUST SIMPLY GO FOR SANTANA. i'm a yankees fan but if i were a sox fan i would not want this trade, and to do it because detroit made a big trade is an even worse reason. the sox already have a great rotation of beckett, dice, schilling, wakefield, lester / buchholz and after next year, beckett, dice, lester, buchholz, and probaly a minor league. the sox are the defending world champions, they do not need to make a panic move to react to someone else. the yankees need santana a lot more than the sox and even then i do not want to make the trade if it costs hughes and kennedy. i'd rather move on without him. and thats not even counting the 25 million a year for 6-7 years.

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from drconlaw. Show drconlaw's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Having slavishly checked my computer over the last couple of days I have come to a new realization about the Santana "deal or no deal"--PUT DOWN THE PDA AND WALK AWAY FROM THE TABLE, THEO. It's very simple, no player is worth being played this way by the Minnesota Twins, only to be then played by the player and his agent, who just wants 2-3 times as much as the best pitcher on my planet, Josh Beckett. We won the World Series, we have the players for next year, and we have the best and growing prospect farm in the majors. Let's roll with them!!!!
    But, Theo, if you really, really want him, much as I despise writing this, take a hint from Ellsbury hiring Boras when he can do nothing for years until free agency, offer just Ellsbury and Lester, get back Santana and Nathan, and be done with it. When that does not work, go get Haren and let the Yankees have this guy. Santana's perfect for ARod. They can have matching limos in the players' parking lot.
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kjodon7. Show kjodon7's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    The longer this goes on, the more I doubt it will happen.

    Lester, Crisp, Lowrie, Masterson, and Kalish have been on the table since yesterday ... I doubt the Sox will offer much more than that. My only thought is the Twins still want both Ellsbury and Lester, which they won't get.

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from mcq0823. Show mcq0823's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Is it me or is this getting pretty annoying?

    Media has to stop dragging this out. Too many people are throwing out their opinion (I think this is going to get done, ect) then reporting.

    So annoying

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from northeastern1. Show northeastern1's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Theo has already said that he is ok with their situation either way with or without Santana. He has said they will begin to see what else is out there so that they dont miss any other potential deals. The Twins have untill April to Trade Santana as he has said he will not consider a trade once the season starts. They are holding their cards and hoping someone folds by increasing their offering. It may backfire on them if nothing else happens and the sox trade Coco to the White Sox. Then the Twins will have to accept a lesser offering from either the Yankees, Angels or whoever else jumps in.

    I wouldnt mind seeing Santana stay in Minnesotta one more year and then let the bidding begin with straight up dollars not prospects.

    I guess all this hoopla is good to occupy my thought between pats games and the Celts.

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shammyshoo. Show shammyshoo's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Just a question. How likely is it that we would be able to sign Santana next year when he's a free agent? If we don't trade for him will anyone fork 250mil over? I would love to have him, but it seems that all of the prospects we'd potentially be losing is too big of a price to pay, especially if there's a chance we could sign him next year and keep all of our young players. I would love to see Lowrie come up and replace Lugo a year from now. No offense to Lugo.
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from northeastern1. Show northeastern1's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    It is very likely, obviously the Sox have probably the second highest payroll capacity in the majors. That would be very interesting to see and it would give the Sox time to further evaluate their prospects and use them as trade bait next year for other players or even decide to make them starters. Of course, thats if Santana is still available by then. I dont think the Twins will let this happen, they will test the teams a little more and eventually get anything they can before the season starts.

    The Sox could still get something good for Coco, possibly a catcher. As well as make other small moves. And lets not forget the Sox Starting 5 or 6 or combination of 6 still looks good without Santana. Wake could start the season and Bucholz can come in midway so that he doesnt get overly tired in September/October.

    no offense to logo? you mean no offense from Lugo

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from smairs. Show smairs's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Just posted on ESPN:12:15 p.m., from Peter Gammons
    ò Don't expect to see a Twins-Red Sox or Twins-Yankees whopper. The sense is now that Minnesota will hold onto Johan Santana. http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=winter_meetings

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bcrawf33. Show bcrawf33's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    I think it is funny how many people are happy their team is not getting the best pitcher in baseball. Johan Santana on the Red Sox, paired with Beckett, would make the Red Sox the favorite to win the World Series in 2008, 2009, and 2010 (when Beckett's contract is up.) Johan Santana on the Yankees would make them much more formidable, and if Joba is what their fans think he is (and he may be), that 1-2 punch would be almost unbeatable in October for the next 5 years.

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carolina-soxfan. Show carolina-soxfan's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    The Twins are most likely hoping the Yankees will get back in this thing. If I were Epstein I would, unlike Hank Steinbrenner, discreetly give the Twins an ultimatum. I'm not even convinced the Twins really want to trade him in the first place. Maybe they just want to seem like they are making a good faith effort to deal Santana, but truly want to hold onto him this season and hope to sign him after the season if things work out favorably. This would ensure that he doesn't blow out his arm this year and also would allow them to simply see how this season works out. All the while, this would in the short term appease Santana who has expressed discord with the Twins front office and openly questioned their desire to put a competitive team on the field. Regardless, this whole process is taking too long and it is time to either get the deal done or shift our attention elsewhere which would most likely mean a trade for Haren, provided Beane doesn't think too highly of him. Let's get on with this thing. This "Hot Stove" crap has been a complete and utter waste of time and is mostly derived from pure speculation anyway.

    This is me serenading the Twins FO: "Don't you drive the queen of diamonds boy, she'll beat you if she's able, you know the queen of hearts is always your best bet. "And now It seems to me some fine things have been laid upon your table, but you only want the ones that you can't get."

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tedhead. Show tedhead's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    As has been posted here many times....take it or leave it. I would like the deal to happen, if it doesn't thats ok too. I would however, like Theo and Co. to take a good look at Bedard......Coco, Lester +........ and take a pass on Haren. If it doesn't happen secure our pen and start looking for a catcher of the future.

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from sviolet1. Show sviolet1's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    I have been back and forth on this trade since first hearing about it. I would love to see it get done without Ellsbury but I think if it takes Ellsbury it should still get done.

    Hanley Ramirez has had two outstanding years for the Marlins (top 10 players in all of the major leagues) but I think very few people would back out of that trade for Beckett (even if it didn't include Lowell). I doubt that Ellsbury will ever have a season as good as Hanley's first two and we could be getting a pitcher back that is better then Beckett and still in his prime.

    I can live with this deal either way, I just want it done or not

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from tedhead. Show tedhead's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    This is strangely silent... do you suppose that this means the deal is done and they are relaxing and putting together the final touches... it just could be the first sign that the deal has been made.

    I think this means Theo needs a lunch break...he is buying. He will use the revenue generated by the new ticket prices. ;-)