1. You have chosen to ignore posts from vincm98. Show vincm98's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    3.33
    15-13
    0
    235

    Those 15 wins will be 25 with sox

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from vincm98. Show vincm98's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    OK MAYBE 20
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from vincm98. Show vincm98's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    2007 Boston Red Sox2073.2730301000200.2189767317540194
    Here is beckett 189 IP with same ERA and 20 wins. Back to Back with 400 KS. GIVE UP JOHNNY PESKY TO COMPLETE THE TRADE> AS WE HAVE SEEN PITCHING WINS WS
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Still a great pitcher, but not a good trend; hitters have figured something out, or he has lost some of his stuff, so say the stats below.

    Johan Santana P - Minnesota Twins

    Bats:LThrows:LBorn:3/13/19792007 Salary:$13,000,000Career Stats |Player Graphs

    Basic Pitching

    YearTmLgGGSShOWLERASOpHIPHitKBBHBPWHIPSLGABFPPitHRTBERDPSBCSPO
    2004MINAL343412062.61000228.01562655490.92.3158813422242566618674
    2005MINAL333321672.87000231.71802384510.97.3469103335222967411450
    2006MINAL343401962.77000233.71862454741.00.3609233450243107214450
    2007MINAL3333115133.33000219.01832355241.07.4058783345333308117654
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from vincm98. Show vincm98's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    1. Lost what? IP, Hits allowed and K's still there..actually really similiar. His ERA is....oh my gosh just over 3 how terrible. The twins offense is what has lost something.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rbreg7. Show rbreg7's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Is it possible that the Twins are simply holding out until the Red Sox up their offer knowing that they will not get anything better from any other team? Seems to me like this media storm is simply a ploy for the Red Sox to up their offer. I don't think the Sox want to do that, seeing as how they are fine with or without Santana. I don't mind keeping Lester or Ellsbury on the team. Then we could spin Crisp for Salty, a guy that probably fills a need more then Santana could anyway.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    He allowed more batters on base per inning and his slugging percentage (against) went up (he gave a lot more dingers last year). This caused his ERA to jump to (a still excellent as you point out) 3.33.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    I did not reach a conclusion; just gave the statistics; his ERA trended up, his homers allowed way up, on base percentage and slugging percentage up. I actually don't know what caused this but would like to hear informed opinions...up, but still among the best in the league...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from terminator-x. Show terminator-x's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    The Sox have handled this well; the Twins are overplaying their hand. They can lose Santana at the end of the year for draft picks, rather than prospects.

    Putting logic aside, I would like to see the Sox continue their success with as many home grown players as possible.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from woobie2. Show woobie2's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    GM tulsa... hope you are well.

    I for one am happy that this Santana thing seems to have fallen apart. Giving up 4 of the top youngsters in baseball PLUS Ellsbury, a potential superstar of the near future, borders on the ridiculous. I have said all along that any pitcher, even Santana, is one pitch away from closing it down for the rest of the season, while these 4-5 kids could easily shine. It does look like the Twins have overplayed their hand.

    Yesterday in Boston I listened to several MN beat writers and baseball authorities discuss Santana's stats. Though impressive, certainly, they have been down a bit each and every year since 2003. To a man, they all reiterated that this guy wears down by the end of the season. He is a slight man, ala Pedro in his twenties, and if not for the playoff season, why do we need him badly enough to have a yard sale?

    Dangle Crisp this winter and hopefully we will get a legitimate catcher to spot Tek this year and take over next and maybe add a nice right hander from the bench. Never has the phrase "no news is good news" meant more to me.

    Best Wishes for the Holidays.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from camelvideo. Show camelvideo's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    As a Yankee fan my views maybe skewed, but I can't see how the Twins would accept
    your package after turning down a deal with Hughes involved. IIf you give up two of
    your big three to complete the deal, my hats go off to you guys and the Sox are definitely
    the favorites with DYNASTY potential. However I believe the Sox have this anyway and
    they are better off holding on to their chips in the long term. Many of my Yankee fan freinds
    and I (although obviously unhappy about not getting Santana)are happy to retain Hughes and
    Kennedy and watch them develop. If it doesn't workout and we don't make the playoffs so
    be it. For now the worm has tunred and we are looking up at the Sox , Tigers , Indians
    and the Angels. Right now it's the Yankees that appear to be the odd team out. As a fan
    I would rather seet his then the potential heartbreak of putting all our eggs in the Santana basket
    and seeing that fail. Congrats on your WS victory and I hope to never see the terms Boy Blunder
    and Tito is an incompetent on these boards again. Your organization is in truly intelligent hands
    and I am looking forward to this great rivalry continuing. for years to come.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from druinc. Show druinc's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Santana is a great pitcher but he is not worth giving up the farm for one arm. Yeah he has good numbers now in the Twins Organization but who is to say he will not come to Boston and totally lose his way. To give up 3 or 4 of our top prospects for one guy is Yankee like, and is why the Yankees are in so much trouble now. They depleted their farm system for guys they thought were studs, but turned out not to be as studly as what they had hoped, and they have nothing to show for it.

    Now the sox have Lester who is only 23, who was incredible last year with the limitied innings he had, even after he went through his whole cancer ordeal... He came away out of his rehab and produced his very first game on the mound. With more innings and more experience under his belt he could be a 2 or 3 in the rotation.

    Then you have Clay Bucholz who is only 23, who every team in baseball is drooling over. Again with innings will be a top pitcher in the league as well. He showed his stuff last year in the breif time he was up and showed that he could pitch, and pitch deep into games.

    Ellsbury is going to be an allstar center fielder and people are compairing him to Damon. I think that is an insult. I think from what he did last year to come up to the majors during the toughest time of the year during the pressure packed play off's and produce like he did should show everone that he is going to be an allstar and hall of fame player, barring injury. He took over in center field and was on the ESPN highlight reel many times. Had huge hits and consistant hits. Did not try and crush the ball but slapped it where he wanted to when he wanted to. Did not matter what pitcher he was facing or what that guy was throwing, he constantly hit. Damon number I doubt it, I think he will be better than Damon.

    These 3 guys could go on any other team right now, including the yankees and the tigers and make them alot better team. They are also carrying low saleries right now, so why are we wanting to get rid of our future for one guy who is good, but not worth 2 or even 3 allstar players.

    Yeah I know everyone is saying you know what your getting in Santana and we dont really know what we are getting in those 3 guys. But you mean to tell me that all 3 will go on to be sub par players, one maybe, two a long shot, but all three playes becoming crap I doubt it.

    I say we groom those 3 guys and keep Santana's salery off our books and stop trying to be like the yankees. Santana is not worth 3 top prospects and $80 to $150 million salery. Right now with our current line up we can beat any team in the league in a seven game series. And with this team we have right now, we can again compete for another ring and even beat the newly touted Might Tigers. We have the right mix of experience and youth and we have the mix to be a solid team for many years to come. Why mess that up for one guy. When we have 3 guys that could put up the same type of number in a year or two for alot less money.

    I think that we should learn from the Yankees and not follow after them because in their era of trying to buy teams they did not win a damn thing.

    If we give these guys up we are going to be kicking our selves 2 and 3 years down the road when we have to face them and the toast us and the rest of the league.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from berkshire62. Show berkshire62's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    I agree with the Twins GM over playing his hand. I would have jumped on the Yankee deal in a second or the Red Sox deal with Lester. A closer look at the Tiger deal is hard because outside of the two main young players, the Tigers gave up 4 guys who will probably never make the majors as starters. The next best guy after Miller and Maybin is a back up 27 year old catcher?

    The Twins were going to get 4 young players from the sox who would have contributed on the major league level this year. Plus , the more time that goes by the more chance the Sox have of finding another trade or trades splitting up these guys and improving our team acquiring a top catcher or SS.

    On top of that both the Sox or Yanks would be able to close the deal with Santana.

    Glad the deal is falling apart.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    The Twinkies are yanking Theo's chain. They want too much, definitely. As the ultimate downside, if there is no deal, they figure to hang onto Santana for another year and let him go anyway. The upside for them, if there IS a deal, is they get to raid someone else's farm system and dump Santana's contract.

    Money not an issue for the Twins? O please! Spare me! That's a good one! Whoever said that should be writing monlogues for Jay Leno during the strike.

    Theo can afford to wait another year and get Santana in free agency. Not pay a darn thing over $$$ and hang onto Ellsbury in the process. Still woudn't mind if Theo would call Billy Beane and kick the tires on Dan Haren, tho. Still, I like the team as it is, and salivate at the thought of Beckett, Dice-K, Bucholz, and Lester in the same rotation with Schill and Wakes. If only we could pick up a real big stick to protect Manny and Papi for another year. Here's hoping J.D. Drew comes as advertised - we can't dump him or his contract at this point. Nice to have Mike Lowell back in any case.

    summerof67

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from gabootwo2006. Show gabootwo2006's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    The longer the wait on this, the more I feel that the deal will not get done. I am getting the impression that the Twins are looking at what's on the table from the Sox and other teams and saying "we want more" and the Sox and the other teams won't budge on the issue. In the case of the Sox, they are calling the shots from a position of power. They don't need Santana on their pitching staff like other teams do, if let alone, their pitching staff is already loaded with a staff that consists of Beckett, Dice-K, Schill, Wake and Buchholz and Lester filling out the rotation. However with that said, the revelation of the Sox adding Ellsbury's name to the mix a couple days ago was a shock because one would think that Theo would love to build his team of the future around Ellsbury, Papelbon, Pedroia and Buchholz and allowing other top prospects like Lowry, Masterson, Bowden and others to work thier way through the system and into Fenway to join them down the road.

    Now would I like the Sox to land Santana? Yes and No. I think he is a tremendous pitcher who would anchor this staff for the next 6-7 years and is worthy of the all the praise and compliments he gets. He would be a great catch for the team to land. However, what effect would he have on Beckett if the Red Sox pull a trade and sign him for 25 - 30 million per year. Beckett's deal is up in two years and he will be looking for big money deal from the Sox to stay here and if Santana's here at huge money they won't have the money in the safe to keep him. In addition, what about the fans, landing Santana forces the Red Sox brass to raise the cost of Fenway to go up yet again. We are already far and away the most expensive ticket in MLB. So how much more do the Red Sox brass expect the fans to dole out to see thier product? They are already way past the average Joe's ability to pay consistantly to see them in Fenway....god forbid if the Average Joe has a family he wants to bring.

    Now if the Red Sox backed out, what other top pitchers could be had in trade. Tampa Bay has whispered Kasmir's name, Dan Haren's name from Oakland has been bantered about, Ben Sheet's name has come up and even the Oriole's Eric Bedard's name has come up. Maybe, just maybe there is an fairly comparable pitcher to Santana talents that the Sox could land in trade that would cost a mere fraction of the payday Santana wants to get. Oh well, it's the last day of the Winter Meetings, maybe Theo and gang can pull some magic out of thier backsides and make a deal for one of these pitchers without breaking the bank for Santana's services. Who knows, maybe they will stand pat and do nothing and keep in tact what they have already built up. Either way, the team is still a serious contender for the crown again next season.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from flasox. Show flasox's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    I don't think Willis has the stuff left to pitch effectively in the AL:. He has a funky delivery which made confuse batters the first time around but his fastball is between 88-91 and hittable. He has been going downhill for the last 2 year in the NL.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from johnnym. Show johnnym's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    hmmm, i know that i didn't write hitters were teeing off on santana. what i did write is there are clear indications that he just might be wearing down. i pitched at a high level. i have more than a clue as to the pounding the body takes from pitching every 5 days. his numbers are what they are. he gave up a boat load of home runs and against divisional opponents. his stat's the 2nd half of the year certainly were alarming, do you argue this? 4-7 with a 4 plus era?
    as far as teeing off on him? i said he's basically a 2 pitch pitcher and when the time comes he starts to lose velocity, and he will, hitters can sit on basically 1 of his 2 pitches and jump on him.

    I've heard about your owner. Basically the wealthiest baseball owner of them all with a worth over 3 billion and an absolute cheap skate. Santana said no to 80-90 million because of the length of the offered contract basically, right? Perhaps he was saving his slider, although, as the tremendous competitor that he is, I don't think that's close to being the case. The guy was 40-4 or 44- 4 for the 2nd half from 03-06. crazy numbers! He pitched to win every time he stepped on the field and i don't think for a second he debated whether to use his slider so he can basically hold up the twins for a trade.
    It all boils down to the Red Sox being in a position where they don't have to do anything and they'll improve, especially pitching wise. They can and should absolutely wait until next year, Santana will be a free agent and they don't give up anyone.
    JohnnyMulk

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from chuck45. Show chuck45's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    Hi your post was just how i feel.Twins GM is way to greedy.The Twins owner is cheap.This guy is wealthiest in Minnesota ,yet wont give the money it takes to keep the best leftie in baseball.Just unreal.Hope Theo does not give in.I like our team as its now constructed.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from goznes. Show goznes's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    It seems to boil down to who will give up at least one of their "untouchables"to get Santana. Whoever does do the giving up first gets Santana. Give up Ellsbury and Lester if necessary. Wait a year? Santana will be gone by then. Pay then for the next best pitcher.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from niz-58. Show niz-58's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    But,...I thought Santana only wanted to play for the Yankees??? ;-)
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from flasox. Show flasox's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    thats OK as long as Kennedy /Melky not happening.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    If there is one thing I have now learned from all this Santana insanity is that there is not one sports writer, TV analyst or baeball expert that has an actual clue about what is really happening in the sport until it actually does happen.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from flasox. Show flasox's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    We will cross that bridge when we come to it.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SotaSoxa. Show SotaSoxa's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    I agree with bootis. Don't forget the first 162 games we've got to watch and there will be a lot more reason to do that with Nava jo coby leading off every game-imagine how boring it would be without him. And everybody ought to back off Coco a little bit-it's like you guys forgot about all those thrilling game saving highlight films he was making in center field.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from headofted. Show headofted's posts

    Santana-Jacoby: closed.

    If there is one thing I have now learned from all this Santana insanity is that there is not one sports writer, TV analyst or baeball expert that has an actual clue about what is really happening in the sport until it actually does happen.

    Jesseyeric.....your statement is sad but true. What do these guys really know about sports that most REAL sports fans don't. The only thing they have over us is access to speak with the athletes and management directly. But thier conclusions are no more accurate than most of ours.

     

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