1. You have chosen to ignore posts from johnwill. Show johnwill's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    that was pathetic............loser
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonjared. Show bostonjared's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    ESPN radio reported that Theo said his contract in Null if he is injured because he signed an injury clause in his contract..� There;s some cash to THROW around.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bksmooth. Show bksmooth's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Many of you commented that Schilling was given a contract to mentor the young pitching staff????Ok, then hire him as a Coach.� they make far less than the 8 million the sox forked out for a dead arm.As far as this not affecting Schilling and that he'll be able to pitch in the playoffs ISN'T happening.�� If he has Rotator Cuff Surgery Or Labrum Surgery it is a full year recovery.� I guess when they made up this silly weight clause they should have added an ability to void the contract in the event an injury occurs during his physical fitness program in the off-season.If the Red Sox failed to give him a physical when they offered the deal, then they made their bed.� I'm sure they'll just grease the money they lost out of the deal on the fans, expect Beer to be 8.50�

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BoomersRockToo. Show BoomersRockToo's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Somebody dropped the ball, when it rains it pours !
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from johnwill. Show johnwill's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    thats funny....look at all the players you guys had (and have) that have broken down due to steroid use:Garciaparra........Clement...........Lowe...........Schilling...........Capler......Varitek.........Pedro......the list goes on and on.......you know it's true�

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 13lucky. Show 13lucky's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    whats to discuss? Schilling is injured he won't be able to play, you guys will go buy another high priced pitcher...simple!�We sure hope so. Having a lot of money sure is nice. You must be wicked jealous. Too bad for you.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from kd10. Show kd10's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    he's old, washed up and blows important games.. get rid of him.� Yes, I am a Sox fan.. and cringe when he pitches.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    scauma,I don't understand why this is being announced with a week before pitchers report, it just seems odd.� But, if I am reading the stories correctly there at least seems the possibility that Theo knew of Schilling's condition BEFORE the Santana deal went down, and that is why the Sox pulled Lester off the table.Just when I thought it was time to stop checking the Sox boards every day for breaking news...

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from idabomb333. Show idabomb333's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    If he has shoulder surgery, he won't pitch again.� At least not in 2008.� I hope it's treatable without surgery...I'm a little confused by the stuff about voiding the contract.� I would think this would be one of the contracts on which the Sox would buy insurance.� Does anyone know how that works?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from musketahquid414. Show musketahquid414's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    A Yankee fan lecturing US about buying a World Championship? Oh, puh-leeze. That's like Roger Clemens talking about upholding the inttegrity of baseball....
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rcardz. Show rcardz's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Deleted

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from observer12. Show observer12's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    The point that was made about the implication of voiding the contract is the best one here.

    The $ox can construct a rotation the same way the Yankee$ can, and have enough depth in their organization to do fine even if it turns out Schilling is out for most of, if not all of, the season.� (And sorry, but both clubs deserve the dollar sign now.)

    The bigger issue is the ill will that is going to be built up among other players for the Sox even looking at cancelling out his contract.� For a guy who has done what he has done for this organization, to turn around and potentially just say 'drop dead' doesn't exactly make much sense for the money involved.� This isn't a $20M boondoogle ala oh, Albert Belle or Carl Pavano; it's an undermarket contract that might not be all that much less than he'd get if he went someplace else for only half a season.� (I could easily see Schilling getting $5-6M for half a season if he was out with surgery for the first half.)

    Essentially the Sox are saying that institutional loyalty matters not at all and it's all what have you done for me today.� Maybe Schilling wasn't honest about the shoulder; it would fit with his ego.

    But for what he signed for, I don't think it matters all that much.

    Watch out.� That attitude as a team may save you some money near term but look out for who you're going to be able to sign down the road.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from anchore. Show anchore's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Just when I thought Shilling could be trusted, he once again shows his true colors.
    He has been able to get superman pay for little contribution.� And if he really thinks he has value as an inspiration to younger pitchers,� what are they really learning?� I guess how to game the system.
    Hopefully he'll finally do the right thing and leave gracefully.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from chocstars. Show chocstars's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    How many Red Sox were on the report and how many yankees were on it?� The yankees are big cheaters. And now�you are�stuck with $-Rod. He will hit .049 come playoff time.�YOU KNOW IT IS TRUE�LMAO�

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from kbucko. Show kbucko's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Of course - at the same time - this is why it's somewhat dumb to sign a guy like Santana as well - because pitchers break - and you just signed the guy to a six-year $150M contract.� Luckily for the sox, this was just a one year deal for relatively low money...

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from scootj. Show scootj's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Curt has been big here in Boston, but age has caught up to him. This gives Lester and Clay a chance to show what they got.� This team needs to get younger and start grooming in all these prospects.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Not if you think you can get Santana for Ellsbury.� Better to keep Lester AND get Santana, if you know Schilling is injured in my book!The way I look at it Theo never got desperate to get Santana.� If you think that means he never knew about the Schilling injury, then you are entitled.� My guess is that even if Theo knew, he wasn't going to trade out of desperation.� That just isn't good business sense to begin with.� And, second, I'm not sure Theo sees the loss of Schilling as putting the Sox in a desperate situation.� But, I am pretty sure he would not want to trade a starting pitcher out his rotation for Santana if he can make as good an offer (maybe better, considering the Twin's need for a CFer) without losing one of his starters.� Then, if he makes the trade, Santana replaces an injured Schilling, a huge upgrade.� If Theo knows that Schilling is seriously injured, then trading Lester means Santana replaces two starters.� Not such a huge upgrade, at all.� In fact, I am willing to state my belief that Santana would not have replaced the wins both Schilling and Lester were counted on if both pitch in the 2008 rotation.� (the way I see it is that Santana would have to win 27 or so games to make up that difference!)

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rtrups. Show rtrups's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Let Schilling make the decision if he wants surgery. If he doesn't pitch he should not get paid and the Sox should be able to void his contract.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Al-F. Show Al-F's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    So, now we agree to pay Schilling 8 million dollars for half a season?� If it's a scheme to rest him early then bring him in fresh for the stretch drive, then pay him that way. He isn't a 16 million dollar player. It sounds similar to the Clemens deal with the Yankees. If he can't play, then prorate his salary and pay him $4 million.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrstohl. Show mrstohl's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Didn't Keith Foulke sign a deal with Cleveland, then "Change his mind' or "Get hurt" then he told Management before spring trainging that was a 'No-Go". They didn't have to pay him because he was a free-agent signee. All Foulke had to do was show up on day 1 and collect the money but he decided not to.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from observer12. Show observer12's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    It's aboutsubterfuge vs honesty. Loyalty cuts two ways. To my mind, if Schiilingwithheld info about his inability to pitch this year, he should be flatout SUED, not just have his contact 'voided'.

    Agreed.� But...according to the Edes story he didn't go see his own guy until January 28th, which would generally indicate that he might have only felt pain very recently.

    Also, if it's a partial rotator cuff tear and has been all along, that's an injury that's probably going to show up on an MRI. (To quoth wikipedia, "Stetson et al, in 2005 showed a false-negative rate of 9% andsensitivity at 91%, the authors concluded that magnetic resonancearthrography was a very reliable test in the detection ofpartial-thickness rotator cuff tears.")� Partial tears are admittedly sometimes hard to pick up, but I cannot believe that with his shoulder problems last season that the $ox and their risk adjusted return types did not require him to have a series of MRIs and X-rays as a routine part of the physical.� If they didn't, that's their own stupidity.� Either it was there then and missed or it happened later.

    I ain't going to defend Schilling because I have a hunch he might not have been entirely forthcoming about how lousy his shoulder was feeling before this, but I'm not going to defend the Sox either.� They knew his shoulder was a major risk, and if they didn't run a proper physical and/or the cuff got worse after the physical, tough kitty litter.� You made a dumb deal.� Live with it.

    Not that a player is ever at risk to have a contract voided in this day and age unless they get arrested (and sometimes not even then) but all I can say is that if the Sox are talking voiding and Schilling wasn't entirely forthcoming, both jerks deserve each other.

    There will be consequences down the road when it comes to other players.� Let's say this happened a few years back when Vlad had just become a FA and there was some worry about his back.� After this, you think he'd even think about signing if he had the remotest worry about getting voided out because they missed something during his physical?

    If it comes out that Schilling KNEW he had a torn rotator cuff from a third party and was actively withholding, different story, and you're right, he should be getting sued for fraud.� Based on everything we've read so far, very unlikely.� He'd have gone under the knife months ago.

    I miss the days when this was a team to root for rather than a corporation with corner suite offices.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from axman96. Show axman96's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    I'm really not all that worried about Schilling being out until July.� We have Beckett, Matsusaka, Wakefield, Lester, and Buccholz.� What's not to like?� I'm also confident that they will get another #4 or 5 starter as insurance in case Buccholz or Lester falter a bit.� That rotation should at least be able to keep them competitive with the Yankees until Schilling gets healthy.I'm actually pretty confident that Lester will have a good year, with the way he pitched in the World Series, he was awesome.� Buccholz is hard to figure out at his young age.� Sure he will show flashes of brilliance, but he's still very young and has little big league experience, so I wouldn't be surprised if he is erratic at times.� I could see him going maybe 10-8, with and ERA of 4.00 - 4.50, maybe 120-150 IP, with lots of K's and also lots of walks.I'm also glad that they didn't give in and get Santana.� Sure he'd be great, but for the prospects you have to give up, and the huge contract you'd have to pay him, it just wasn't worth it.All in all the 2008 version of the Sox looks pretty strong, maybe better than last, expecially if Ellsbury continues to kick ####.� Looking forward to a wicked good summah...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from bensoxx. Show bensoxx's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    How about this for an idea for our 5th starter:Instead of limiting Clay Buccholz's innings in AAA, we just limit his innings with the red sox.� He can be a pitching tandem with Tavarez.� So, Clay will pitch 4-5 innings (depending on pitch count) and Tavarez can pitch 2-3 (depending on how he is doing) and we'll let the bullpen take over.� That will be a quality start innings-wise to prevent undue�wear and tear�on the bullpen,�and given that Clay is the guy we think he is, a better start than just Tavarez alone.� So basically, instead of wasting his pitching at AAA, just have him pitch here but limit his innings anyway.� �

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from rickl324. Show rickl324's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    Yes, they have the right. Would they have made the offer if they knew the severity of his injury? Void the contract and let the "kids" get his innings.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from chiero. Show chiero's posts

    Schilling's shoulder discussion

    I heard Schilling hurt his shoulder by punching the wall when he heard what Santana signed for.
     

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