1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    In discussing the Sox meeting at Teixeira's house Jon Heyman said that Lucchino tried to get Tex to sign right then and there and increasingly displayed frustration that things were not going his way. He asked Tex "do you even know the numbers your agent is telling you?" Making it look like Tex had no clue about his future and/or his agent was lying to him. A negotiations no-no that quickly turned the mood in the room sour.

    Theo... so great at wooing the Schillings... was relegated to the sidelines by the dominating figure of Lucchino. Henry and Theo have a very good almost father-son relationship. Lucchino and Theo have clashed constantly in the past about the proper way to talk to the media, agents, FA targets, the direction of the team (farm over ex. vets) etc.

    This is just another example of Larry F_cking over Theo and the organization by being an unlikeable a-hole with a quick temper. Should he find a new job?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    More Larry moments, all right out of the book Feeding the Monster:

    - He botched the A-Rod trade in 03 (lucky us) by lamenting to the media about the players association not "supporting a player who wants to go elsewhere." pissing off A-Rod who was quielty trying to give back us much money as the union could. He felt Larry had no right to go public and "speak" for him. Theo was livid.

    - He threw Theo under the bus after the Nomar trade, having Steinberg tell WEEI that he was against it and wanted Nomar to end his career in Boston like he did Brooks Robinson in Balt. and Gwynn in SD.

    - He delayed and low-balled Theo at every step during his contract year of 05. When it was apparent Theo was going to stay, despite the two not getting along, Larry leaked a bunch of lies to Shank S. about Theo being power hungry and greedy.... creating the gorilla suit situation.

    - He wanted to keep Pedro/Damon (questionable moves but thats beside the point) Yet somehow let the Mets and Yanks swoop in last minute and outbid us (Theo wanted neither back and left it to Larry to conduct negotiations depending on what Henry would pay).

    - He interviewed a bunch of lame-duck GM candidates (Bowden) even though he knew Theo/Henry were quielty negotiating Theo's return, just b/c he secretly hoped Theo would still decide to never return to his job. He was absent from Theo's press conf. when he came back as GM.

    - He was the biggest advocator of not dealing w/ Manny's future prior to 08 (pick up options/extension/trade him before the season) b/c he felt the Sox held all the cards w/ the 09/10 options and being an arrogant guy who loved to wield power he figured we could just let Manny enter 08 w/ out a clue as to his future.

    - Now he pisses off the Teixeria's. Even tho we know Tex wanted to be a Yankee and was using us all along, it is still a distressing trend.

    Lucchino can take a hike to another club for all I care. He's great at putting in an strong commited infrastructure of intelligent baseball people to help run a smooth, hard-working and profitable organization. But having his hand in all transactions this club does... working jointly w/ Theo and not taking a backseat to the calmer friendlier (I'm not saying smarter) GM... is a bad situation and will continue to be.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from RS0407. Show RS0407's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    rameakap,
    Seriously, why waste time asking this question? All it is gonna do is get LoserLaw2005abcdefg posting anti-Sox stuff all over this thread. This isn't meant to sound insulting to you but think of it this way: Were you actually IN the room? Do you actually know EVERY detail of the Sox' entire pursuit of Teixeira? And can you HONESTLY say that the whole pursuit of Teixeira wasn't even just for show so that at least Sox fans would THINK that the front office made every effort to aquire him? The answer to all of those question is the same: NO.

    The truth is that we will never know what honestly happened. I'm sure that if you asked Theo, Larry, Henry, Boras & Teixeira what happened then you'd get a different story from all of them so the fact is that it really is impossible for us to ever know the complete and true story. And not to mention that Teixeira wanted to be a Yankee all along-- how is that Larry's fault?

    I realize that you're probably as bored as I am with the lack of news but come on, now-- don't post this kind of stuff when we honestly have no business answering this question since we hardly have anywhere close to all the information we'd need to make an honest answer. If you wanna talk about a player's stats, preference to bring a player here, players you like or dislike then fine, but let's not go ripping on people when we only have one small piece of a huge story.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from massillon8. Show massillon8's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Great Post, you hit a big source of the Red Sox FO problems on the head. Lucchino is not a Baseball guy, he is a business guy. I don't know why the Red Sox insist on allowing the guy who should be signing off on the color of the drapes in Lux suites or picking the best brand of toilet paper to provide their customers, sitting in on Baseball related meetings. Come to think of it, why is John Henry even there? Don't they trust Theo judgements? You lay out the parameters of the contract before hand and let your GM go do his job.
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Well RS thanks for the response.

    When either of the Law's responds to intelligent baseball convo w/ their negative hate-agenda ignorance I tend to just use the facts and reality to address their BS and then move on to those who want to have respectful, intelligent convo's.

    This is not a thread directed at any trolls but a legit question and I am wondering who agrees w/ me. I just read "Feeding the Monster" a few weeks back. The author is the only guy given access by Theo and the trio to be privy to all their dealings over the 2005 seasons and write, in an un-biased and if needed unflattering way, about the good and bad qualities of them and the organization.

    The examples I gave above are 100% true and if you read the book and see just how Larry operates you too will question his relevance in the current organization... not in 02-04...but now.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Good one Softlaw.. hahaha... as predictably mean-spirited and trollish as always. After the Tex meeting all we had to go by was the media saying that we were the favs and the Yanks were not in it...Cashman himself said this. Now the facts come about how how we were pawns and Tex wanted to go to NY pretty much the entire time, and def when the sox went there.

    This is not a thread about those negotiations but about the relevancy of Lucchino in the organization at this time. He's always seemed like an abrasive unlikeable arrogant person... hey just like you Softy... but the results of the team and his obv basball intelligence meant he was a good guy to have around... ooo too bad not like you at all Softy.

    At this point, after reading the book and hearing the probable events of the Tex visit I find it a valid question to ask: should we part ways with Larry. Steinberg saw the writing on the wall and left. Larry should as well.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    massillon,

    Thanks for the response. Larry has a lot of intelligence about the running of an orghanization and this very much related to business. His bball intelligence goes beyond that of a business CEO... but he should not negotiate contracts or have the pull he does w/ player development.

    There is nobody between Pioli and Kraft or Danny and Wyc. There should be no need for a guy between Theo and Henry.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from baseballdiamond. Show baseballdiamond's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    You start the thread, you argue with yourself about a topic no real Red Sox fans care about and then you finish the threads. Spectacular.

    Where did this information come from? Do you have a link? Peter Gammons seemed to have a pretty good idea about what happened in the negotiations and I didn't see him mention Luchino, but maybe he did.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Sorry I had to edit my thread

    I meant to put in there that these were quotes from Jon Heyman on the visit to Tek and examples right out of the book Feeding the Monster on Lucchino.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    I assume a bunch of Sox fans would care about how long and if Larry Lucchino will/should be w/ the team.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Aww Softy reduced to taking pathetic pot shots at me about topics on threads about completely unrelated things. I'm sorry that you have a worthless rep here and were just destroyed by multiple posters elsewhere on many topics.

    I can gladly debate why having Dunn on this team would be smart, just like I can gladly remind you how you spelling Pujols name wrong TWICE and saying he was not worth a package of Youk/Bowden/Buch is one of the dumbest things anyone here has ever heard.

    But that has nothing to do w/ this thread, so save your small little pot shots for someone they can actually bother and maybe provide an actually response to this topic.

    Since you have to hate on and disagree w/ everything I say... to your constant detriment and humilation... why don't you reserach all the great things Lucchino has done (there are many) and put together an intelligent post about why his positives outweigh the negative facts I just posted.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from baseballdiamond. Show baseballdiamond's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    I wish my life had such a purpose as to be an agitator on another team's message board. How proud my parents would be.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Hahaha truth on the Softone.

    Baseballdiamond, did you see that these were Jon Heyman/Feeding the Monster quotes? I just wanted to know if the rest of the diehards had strong feelings against Lucchino like I did.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from baseballdiamond. Show baseballdiamond's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    If you want to have an actual discussion about it, I welcome that.

    Yes, I get the feeling you're right about Lucchino. I get the definite feeling he's a pompous _______. I didn't understand where you information was coming from and that's my fault. I'm just thinking the Sox have more important things to worry about expecially in light of the fact that by now we all know Teixeira had NO intention of coming here.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Yes you are right there. There are more important things To discuss and Smoltz/Baldelli is very exciting.

    Larry strikes me, as he prob does you, as the sorta SOB type who always thinks they are the smartest guy in the room, always has a position just a little higher than yours in the workplace and is clearly not as nice a guy as you.

    Those are the guys you need to get results sometimes, but after reading about his temper/arrogance tainting a meeting w/ Tex...albeit one that was a ruse and going knowhere... and just reading the book and being able to say "sounds just like that-and that-and that situation" I just wanted to throw the Larry stuff out there and see what other fans feelings of the guy were.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Ram,

    Good companies have people who are like minded at the end goal but also have differing opinions about things. It helps to keep the mind going and think of solutions.

    All I know is since Henry took over the Sox won two WS, 2 7 Game ALCS's and a WC birth. 2002 had to be one of the best teams not to make playoff's i can remember. They are positioned to continue the run for years to come.

    He has made mistakes, but they were not getting Tex anyway as it turns out maybe he knew that at that meeting? As for A Rod we can agree to disagree if he came here in 03 forget it, they sox would also have gotten Ordonez and McCarthy I think. Think three rings, without A Rod Ny is a 85 win team the last three years.

    The Manny chapter was coming to a end no matter what I think.

    They are a championship team, I dont think they should change things until or unless they fail and it is proven he had a hand in it. Theo runs the club or else they would of made a bad signing like they did when he was kinda running they show with Clement, Wells, Ren a wreck type signings.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from baseballdiamond. Show baseballdiamond's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    I'm sure Lucchino has some redeeming qualities probably having to do with charities, but he's never really been one of my favorites. But, hold him up to someone like Jeremy Jacobs and, well, don't get me going about JJ.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Yeah tph I agree with yah there, LL has been part of something great and even tho his relationship w/ Theo was downright awful in 05 it has been repaired since. I feel he can/should move on to another project to build from the ground up and take credit for rather than continue to try and take a lot of Theo and Henry's credit here when is presence in trade/FA talks is not needed. But it's hard to argue w/ the run this FO is on.

    Yes if we got A-Rod we'd get Ordonez... but who is McCarthy?

    I always wished Manny was just claimed off waivers by the Mets or Dodgers that year. Then we could have traded Nomar for Magglio. signed Tejada for 12m and Vlad for 14m, let Trot walk and paid Vlad-Tejada-Mags what Manny-Nomar-Trot made. But I digress.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    The subtle ways he's used the media to throw Theo, agents, other teams and the players union under the bus when he was angry or when it was convenient for him to save face, or when he wanted to be selfish and make it clear he was not a part of a "team" decision, have made it easy to judge him at times without knowing him. Then again, can't argue w/ the teams track record since 02.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Should Lucchino go?

    Total BS spin on events. When engaging in multiple person negotiations many times people play "roles" during the proceedings. Kinda like good cop/ bad cop, only in this case it would be gentle persuader and tough negotiator with the teams goal being to close the deal. Blaming any part of the team for the failure to close is like blaming the second baseman for a lost game. Maybe mistakes were made by individuals, but it's still a team sport. The REAL problem here was Henry and his arrogant refusal to recognize that the cards were unfavorable to us this time around. He instead chose to pretend that they were ,and failed to place an adequate bid on the table. He further complicated things by firing off an unwise and deliberately inflamatory email to the press-further fouling the waters.

    Luchino has been very good for the Sox and balances Theo's youthful exuberance well. I fear losing him this is expected to be the year he moves on. We shall see.
     

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