1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Victory12321. Show Victory12321's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]

    1. "[Beckett] had a serious scare with two tours on the disabled list with shoulder tendinitis in 2000. Offseason tests diagnosed two tears in his labrum, fraying in his rotator cuff, biceps tendinitis, and an impingement. Dr. James Andrews advised against surgery. Beckett worked hard to rehabilitate his shoulder in the winter, and came out firing." I think we now know why the Sox were terrified of his MRI before trading for him.[/Quote]


    talk about a big slap there by Derby...

    I had this link to a baseball American report about Josh Beckett back when he was a Marlin...

    If you had read that report, you would of think they were writting about every injury their whole pitching staff had suffered in the last 10 years.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    Burnett was signed to a 5 year deal, for 85 Million, he alone costs more then Smoltz, Penny and Wake all by himself. Those guys are fillers and cheap alternatives they are not the #2 man in rotation expected to go 220 innings and 32 starts.

    He has had 3 good seasons, the other 8 he has lived on DL and yet to have a great one and got top of roation money. Good for him but it was a terrible signing.

    Smells of Pavano.

    Actually the reason Chamberlin fell in draft was because of injury history and teams concerned about it, which is why NY got him and had Joba Rules. Most teams dont think he was viable long term.

    You cant argue the Sox have produced much better players this past several years, and guys who perform when it counts.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    Yah, BTW on Beckett, one healthy year in his career. So you may be looking at same thing.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen


    Do not be fooled by the Sox nation propaganda that passes here as intelligent baseball talk. Do your research. Just because you do not hear about the Yankees prospects, doesnt mean they are not there. Jesus Montero is the most sought out catching prospect after Matt Wieters of the O's. Not to mention Cervelli and Romine behind Montero as catching prospects. Pitching prospects are seeping into the major league roster. The only thing lacking in the system are position players and thats the only knock on the Yanks farm system.[/Quote]

    RS propaganda? Youkilis / Papelbon / Ellsbury / Lester / Delcarmen / Pedroia / Lowrie / Masterson / Buchholz / Bowden not to mention guys like Hanley Ramirez / Brandon Moss / Hansen who were used to acquire players such as Josh Beckett, Mike Lowell, and Jason Bay. Thats an awful lot of propaganda! Seems like your the one not doing his research.
    Yankees Farm produced Joba / Melky / Cano / Gardner / Ramirez. So please stop trying to pump up the likes of Cervilli, Romine, and Montero. I think you meant pitching prospects are leaking into the Yankee roster [Hughes, Kennedy, Rasner]. While RS can't compete w/ Yankee checkbook, Yanks can't compete w/ RS farm system and thats why Yanks keep falling farther behind. Good Luck writing all those checks!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    We will all sit crumbled in the corner fearing all these great yankee prospects. What are we going to do? Lets just cancel the season and give the title to NY now! I mean they have spent the most money the last 8 years and won exactly no world championships and have developed 2 All Stars? It has to be frustrating to see Boston over take NY where it counts on the field.

    I find it funny they are signing Red Sox cast off's now it used to be other way around.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    Signing CC and AJ were no-brainers. The Yankees got two established starters to eat innings that would allow their young pitchers to stay at AA and AAA to develope arm strength and innings.

    Not so hard to figure out. It only cost money something the Yankees have lots of, and no prospects unlike the Santana trade.

    These signings are unlike those of 2001 i.e. Giambi because at that point in time George S. had let the farm system go to hell there were no prospects to replenish the system.

    Since turning it over to Brian Cashman and Damon Oppenheim a few years back, Cashman has turned the Yankee farm system into one of the best in the game.

    The best positional players are still at "A" ball (Charleston) but A, AA, and AAA are all flush with very good pitching prospects. This season and next some of the best young pitchers in the organization will begin to eke their way up to the Bronx. More then likely spending time in the pen.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Victory12321. Show Victory12321's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]Burnett was signed to a 5 year deal, for 85 Million, he alone costs more then Smoltz, Penny and Wake all by himself. Those guys are fillers and cheap alternatives they are not the #2 man in rotation expected to go 220 innings and 32 starts.

    [/Quote]

    IT doesnt matter how cheap you got them.

    When you talk about having Penny, Smoltz and Wake going 4 and 5 in a championship rotation you are asking for a lot of hope and pray that all of those 3 guys can return to their former shape and others to try and stay healthy for a full season or part of it.

    Two of them were even considering retirement.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    AJ Burnett average 140 innings per season. and has aveager 12 wins per season, he is really not that good. He is a teaser and a guy that gets GM's fired all talent but never really does it.

    They would have been much better off with Lowe.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-Halpert. Show Jim-Halpert's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]AJ Burnett average 140 innings per season. and has aveager 12 wins per season, he is really not that good. He is a teaser and a guy that gets GM's fired all talent but never really does it.

    They would have been much better off with Lowe.[/Quote]

    yeah. If they had gotten Lowe, we would have been reading about how his era was over 5 the last time he pitched in the al east.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Victory12321. Show Victory12321's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]

    yeah. If they had gotten Lowe, we would have been reading about how his era was over 5 the last time he pitched in the al east.[/Quote]


    or how he was an NL pitcher...

    or how he is 40 years old signed to a long contract...

    or how he is bound to be the next pavano...


    it doesnt really matter who they had signed, there is always a question mark for anything...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    That is your opinion, Wake has pitched pretty well the past 4 seasons. Plus your ruling out Bucholtz or Bowden being very good pitchers and that is every bit as likly Kennedy or hughes actually become good. Sox also have Masterson who I like as a reliver but still . . . . .could start.

    Yankee's have more questions or just as many i believe then sox on 25 man roster. They are getting long in tooth at corner OF spots, SS and CA to, but hey you have all future HOF players in A,AA and AAA ready to own baseball. Whatever, 3rd places Yankee's is what I see.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tedhead. Show tedhead's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    I saw this kid pitch for the yankees last year in limited action (14inn) he looked very good. His name is Phil Coke and is someone we need to look out for.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-Halpert. Show Jim-Halpert's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]I saw this kid pitch for the yankees last year in limited action (14inn) he looked very good. His name is Phil Coke and is someone we need to look out for.[/Quote]

    He did look good in his limited time last year, giving up only 1 run. He's going to go to spring training as a starter.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    I just gave you a bunch of good reasons you chose to ignore, either that or you enjoy reading your own posts more then those of others.

    I've been waiting for a few years for Mark Melancon the way I watched and read the Sox loyal here who were anxious for the arrival of Pedroia and Ellsbury.

    This season and especially next the yankees will have one of the deepest, youngest and more talented pitching staffs in the entire game.

    Red Sox have a good pen, but with the exception of Mo next season the Yankee pen will be younger and just as talented.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jim-Halpert. Show Jim-Halpert's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]
    They are getting long in tooth at corner OF spots, SS and CA to, but hey you have all future HOF players in A,AA and AAA ready to own baseball. Whatever, 3rd places Yankee's is what I see.
    [/Quote]

    Bay-30
    Nady-30
    Drew-33
    Damon-35

    yeah, you're right, the Yankees don't have the youth at the corners like the sox

    I'll still take Jeter over Lowrie and I would compare catchers, except the red sox don't have one.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    Phil Coke a southpaw has been in the Yankee farms since 2002 but last year developed a nasty slider that then gave him multiple double digit K games at AAA before he was promoted to the Bronx pen where he maintained and finished the season with an 0.61 ERA.

    He is slated to work as a starter in 2009 camp competing for Pettitte's slot, but could very well end up back in the pen where he was so effective the end of last season.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from PhilTheAce. Show PhilTheAce's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]
    Phil Agree, Joba should go back to pen, had this arguement w/ Diva last winter. If you can shorten games it makes your starters that much better. Johan would have won Cy if he had any kind of pen this year. Problem for Yanks if you move Joba to pen your back w/ same problem you had last year, hoping Hughes / Kennedy can produce at mlb level. Even if Yanks sign another starter they have no depth to rotation.[/Quote]
    I agree with you on shortening games, which is why Joba should be setting up Mo. As for Hughes and Kennedy, well Kennedy I don't have any hopes for, he's Paul Byrd at best IMO. Hughes, well yeah that didn't work out to well last year. However, with the signings of CC and AJ that should take a lot of pressure off Hughes because instead of asking him to be the number two starter, what the Yankees were expecting last year, he can slide in nicely at the number four or five spot. I think Hughes will thrive in that spot because all of that pressure that was on him last year will be minimized considerably. I think Aceves has potential, he shows me a lot more than Kennedy. Hopefully, they can come to an agreement with Pettitte or go after a Garland or Perez to be the 4th starter and then have Hughes in the fifth spot. That allows Joba to go to the pen to set up Mo. Yankees will be a lot better off with that formula.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Victory12321. Show Victory12321's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    That is your opinion, Wake has pitched pretty well the past 4 seasons. Plus your ruling out Bucholtz or Bowden being very good pitchers and that is every bit as likly Kennedy or hughes actually become good. Sox also have Masterson who I like as a reliver but still . . . . .could start.

    I believe Wake was pondering retirement a while ago...

    AGain, its not that he cant pitch, the question is if he can stay healthy at an age when pitchers usually enter their "injury prone" age, and for the past two seasons Wake had to be shut down during the 2nd half due to back pains...

    As for Buchz...

    Lets wait and see what he does once he is up again in the MLB level.



    Yankee's have more questions or just as many i believe then sox on 25 man roster.


    I never said we dont have any question marks, in fact, every team does.

    but being old doesnt necessarily mean being bad.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    Phil, Don't hold your breath waiting for Joba to return to the pen. Ain't happening pal.

    Don't be quick to write kennedy off, he was drafted in 2006, most of the pitchers drafted 2006 are still at "AA" ball.

    If you remember Roy Halladay's very second game in 1989 he went with a no hitter into the 9th inning. 1999 he went 8-7

    In 2000 he totally imploded his record 4-7 his ERA above 10.64. He spent 1990-2001 busted all the way back to "A" ball to regroup.

    2002 he came back and won 19 games the next season the CY Young, now the best pitcher in baseball.

    He could have never have made it in NY or Boston they would have run him out of town.

    I find most Yankee and Sox fans have no stomach developing young pitchers, you no different.

    Joba's rise to MLB is not normal, it's an abberation.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]Sox pen in 2007 was the difference maker, I agree. Foulke was untouchable particularly in the 2004 alcs against the yankees.

    I think veras and Ramirez will be long gone by the beginning of the season because of the depth at the farm level.

    Obviously you have no clue what the yankees have at the farm level.

    You're in for a surprise.[/Quote]

    If you go into season depending on your farm system to produce then your the one in for the surprise. Do the names T.Clippard, C.Wright, S.Henn, D.Rasner, K.Igawa, J.Karstens, R.Ohlendorf, I.Kennedy, and P.Hughes are all young Yankee pitchers who have made they debut's since 07 with little to no production. When I see the Yankee farm system produce more than it has the last few years then I will have more faith in these so called top prospects. Other than Joba you have nothing to stand behind when assuming all these young prospects will help Yanks at some point this year?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    I wonder if there will be a call to leave David Price of Tampa to be the set up man or closer because he like Joba before him had success when promoted to the major league pen.

    Johan Santana the same deal started in the pen for Minnesota also had success.

    You don't take the best young arm in your organization and make him a set up man. Not when he has 4 great pitches, a set-up man only needs 2.

    Why would you have the best young arm in your system throwing 70 innings instead of 200?

    Bruney had better numbers out of the pen last season then Joba, it is easier to find a good set-up man then to find a good starting pitcher.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    Clippard and Wright were both promoted to MLB from AA ball, and at the time the Yankees had no major league prospects available for promotion other than those two.

    Henn, and Karstens were both late level draft picks, Rasner was picked up off the waiver wire, Igawa a Japanese free agent. Ohlendorf acquired in the Randy Johnson trade.

    I don't know what your point is about Kennedy or Hughes who are both two of the first names brought up during trade talk.

    Kennedy was pitching for USC in 2006 take a look at Greg Maddux, or Tom Glavine their first 4 years in the game. Or Curt Schilling, Sandy Koufax all took years.

    Name a Sox pitcher or any other in the game that has made an impact like Joba his very first season. A crazy comment. There are few out there who have done it but great ones and rare, David Price another..

    Young pitchers need time to develope, even the great ones.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from PhilTheAce. Show PhilTheAce's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]Phil, Don't hold your breath waiting for Joba to return to the pen. Ain't happening pal.

    Don't be quick to write kennedy off, he was drafted in 2006, most of the pitchers drafted 2006 are still at "AA" ball.

    If you remember Roy Halladay's very second game in 1989 he went with a no hitter into the 9th inning. 1999 he went 8-7

    In 2000 he totally imploded his record 4-7 his ERA above 10.64. He spent 1990-2001 busted all the way back to "A" ball to regroup.

    2002 he came back and won 19 games the next season the CY Young, now the best pitcher in baseball.

    He could have never have made it in NY or Boston they would have run him out of town.

    I find most Yankee and Sox fans have no stomach developing young pitchers, you no different.

    Joba's rise to MLB is not normal, it's an abberation.[/Quote]
    Don't hold your breath on it not happening. I guess you missed the Cashman interview on WFAN where he said Joba's return to the pen is a strong possibility.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    How many operations has Smoltz had? 5 or 6? And Penny receiving cortizone injections in his elbow last season? I like my chances with Joba.






    Penny Ready to Return


    Dodgers starter Brad Penny said he expects to be ready to make a Friday night return from the disabled list in San Francisco, but reliever Scott Proctor suffered a setback with his injured elbow over the weekend, and time is running out for Jason Schmidt to avoid missing the entire season.
    Penny came out of his Saturday night rehab assignment with Triple-A Las Vegas in Oklahoma City feeling fine after six weeks on the disabled list with shoulder tendinitis.
    "I didn't expect anything different than what happened," said Penny. "Everything was fine."
    That wasn't the case for Proctor, who made a Saturday night appearance for Class A Inland Empire. He was sore Sunday and worse Monday, so he's been shut down. Any time an elbow is involved, the fear is Tommy John reconstructive ligament replacement surgery. The club said he will be reevaluated in a week. Proctor was disabled on June 22.
    Schmidt said over the weekend that he's running out of time on this season. He's been sidelined since undergoing career-threatening shoulder surgery 14 months ago. He has been shut down for the past two weeks after receiving a cortisone injection in his bursa sac. He said he hoped to throw a bullpen session in Los Angeles this week.
    As Schmidt pointed out, however, the Minor League season ends in four weeks. Any more setbacks, and Schmidt would be unable to rebuild arm strength with a rehab assignment.
    Ken Gurnick, MLB.com


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Sox pen vs. Yanks pen

    [Quote]
    Don't hold your breath on it not happening. I guess you missed the Cashman interview on WFAN where he said Joba's return to the pen is a strong possibility.[/Quote]


    Is that all you have to hang your hat on?

    Think about it.

    How is it possible?

    Who then takes his spot in the rotation?

    The only way he goes to the pen is if he fails in the rotation.

    He's been working out all fall and winter in Tampa to condition against injury.
     
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