1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    NFL rules clearly state "No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction."
    Pollard was not pushed into Brady, he was on the ground with Sammy Morris on top of him, he lunged forward directly towards Tom B. knees, he was clearly aiming for Brady's knees and nothing else.

    Watch for yourself
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gDhkOhpyhw&feature=related

    Link to rules

    http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/protectionofpasser

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    I agree but if the NFL says its legal then let's teach the "duck and dive" move to our players and take shots at every quarterback's knees...

    Hey that's football. Right NFL???
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JulesWinfield. Show JulesWinfield's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    Looked legal to me. The passage in the rules says, "No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction." You watch the clip and Pollard was being blocked pretty doggedly and finally escaped off-balance in the direction of the QB. It's not like any contact on a QB at or below the knee is an automatic penalty - I think we'd all agree that if Pollard had made a shoe-string tackle by grabbing Brady's foot as he moved around in the pocket it would not have been a penalty. Brady was stepping up in the pocket at the same time Pollard escaped the block and unfortunately knee met helmet...
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from boulderpatriot. Show boulderpatriot's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    It sucks, and maybe it deserves a fine. Similar to Wilfork's hit. But I don't think it was an intentional cheap shot. Either way, Brady is done for the year, and I remain hopeful the team can rally and shut up the talking heads. At this point I just want to move on and get back to football. Between spygate crap, Mangini leaving the year before, and this Brady injury, I feel like I have talked more about that crap, than football.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ET27. Show ET27's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    Illegal tackle. Pollard was not blocked into Brady. He was knocked to the ground, not into Brady. He then decided to lung at Brady's leg. He knew very well Brady's knee would be at risk. The issue is do we expect defensive players to stand up before making a tackle on a QB? If not, then quarterbacks are at risk. Of course, if he were blocked at the moment or just before contact, it's a non issue. That was certainly not the case here. Moss is right. Did any member of the media share Moss' opinion?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    [Quote]Looked legal to me. The passage in the rules says, "No defensive player who has an unrestricted path to the quarterback may hit him flagrantly in the area of the knee(s) or below when approaching in any direction." You watch the clip and Pollard was being blocked pretty doggedly and finally escaped off-balance in the direction of the QB. It's not like any contact on a QB at or below the knee is an automatic penalty - I think we'd all agree that if Pollard had made a shoe-string tackle by grabbing Brady's foot as he moved around in the pocket it would not have been a penalty. Brady was stepping up in the pocket at the same time Pollard escaped the block and unfortunately knee met helmet...[/Quote]

    The part you are conveniently forgetting as you try to hold Brady accountable for his own injury is that POLLARD LUNGED AT BRADY'S LOWER LEG. It doesn't matter whether he was stepping forward or not. And let's not forget that the first part of Pollard to make contact with Brady is his helmet.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    This is an asinine statement. Can pats fans EVER see things clearly?

    Forget your rule book, I'll take it from your words.

    First, with Morris on Pollard's back (clearly holding - why wasn't a flag thrown?), how do you call that an unrestricted path?

    Additionally, how can you suggest that Pollard, with Morris (220#) trying to hold him down, had enough strength and self control to zero in specifically on Brady's knee.

    Additionally, just as Pollard lunged forward, Brady also stepped forward. Had Brady never stepped forward, Pollard's lunge would have fallen far short of Brady's knee.

    So, given all of the above, how can you possibly consider his hit flagrant?

    Since you are so willing to see this from such a limited perspective, I want to add some contrary thoughts to the play and injury and see what you think.

    Watch the play in full. after the hit, Brady (being the great player and competitor he is) still follows through to make the throw further torquing his knee and putting added pressure on his ligaments. The point: as the hit takes place Brady is still stable enough to actually make the throw. As someone who has torn both ACL's when the tear happens, you lose all stability. The leg gives out. You can tell from the video that Brady loses stability after making the throw, not immediately after the hit. So it is possible that had Brady not followed through on that throw, he may not have torn his ligaments.

    Clarity please and thoughts
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from coolade2. Show coolade2's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    At least half of every NFL decision is 90% political... in other words it's bullsheet like the camera-gate penalty and wilfork and on and on.

    It is not about the rules... it's about their political interpretation of the rules.

    So "duck and dive" should be the new drill taught to every defensive player until there are no more quarterbacks willing to step into a throw. Hey that's the rules ... right NFL???
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnochRoot. Show EnochRoot's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    [Quote]This is an asinine statement. Can pats fans EVER see things clearly?

    Forget your rule book, I'll take it from your words.

    First, with Morris on Pollard's back (clearly holding - why wasn't a flag thrown?), how do you call that an unrestricted path?

    Additionally, how can you suggest that Pollard, with Morris (220#) trying to hold him down, had enough strength and self control to zero in specifically on Brady's knee.

    Additionally, just as Pollard lunged forward, Brady also stepped forward. Had Brady never stepped forward, Pollard's lunge would have fallen far short of Brady's knee.

    So, given all of the above, how can you possibly consider his hit flagrant?

    Since you are so willing to see this from such a limited perspective, I want to add some contrary thoughts to the play and injury and see what you think.

    Watch the play in full. after the hit, Brady (being the great player and competitor he is) still follows through to make the throw further torquing his knee and putting added pressure on his ligaments. The point: as the hit takes place Brady is still stable enough to actually make the throw. As someone who has torn both ACL's when the tear happens, you lose all stability. The leg gives out. You can tell from the video that Brady loses stability after making the throw, not immediately after the hit. So it is possible that had Brady not followed through on that throw, he may not have torn his ligaments.

    Clarity please and thoughts[/Quote]

    Another fool trying to blame Brady.

    Genius, if Pollard wasn't going low on Brady, where would he have hit him had Brady not stepped forward? Big hint here: it wasn't not the lower leg. He was going for below the knee. Get it? He was lunging for where he shouldn't be lunging. He was making an illegal hit.

    Edit: I agree with Tex below: Get lost.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    For Undercrap:

    He went right for his knees smart a**.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from boulderpatriot. Show boulderpatriot's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    Wow Underdogg. You are a moron. When does a QB not step forward when they throw the ball. Pollard was lunging at the ground a yard in front of Brady? Really?

    Anyways, I just said as a Pats fan that all I want is consitency. If Wilfork's hit was illegal, I would argue so was Pollards hit. I don't think he was aiming for knee trying to injure Brady. That seems silly. He tried to make a play. More power to him, but that play was likely illegal. Most Pats fans don't have blinders on, they just believe the hit was illegal and miss their star QB.

    Again I say, Brady is done for the year and nothing changes that. Let's ignore spygate, move past the Brady injury, ignore that pathetic team fans that relish brady's injury because the have a shot in hell at winning now, and root for the Pats.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from boulderpatriot. Show boulderpatriot's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    Adonis, I tried to give you credit, but you are a troll and not too bright.

    Wilfork was fined for an illegal hit. Pollard was not. See thie difference? Can you see, or does your mind not work?

    Go away, and go Bily goat gruff. You are pathetic.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from themightypatriots. Show themightypatriots's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    Underdogg,

    Welcome. I hope this never happens to your QB. Watching Peyton play is one of the most entertaining things to do every fall, and we would never want to be deprived of the annual Peyton face every January (I'm just joshin ya).

    Seriously, though, watch the play. First things first, Morris moves up to block Pollard. Pollard then sort of slides to the ground while keeping his torso upright in a pretty slick move that I hadn't notice until this video. But the move causes Morris, who is running toward Pollard, to fall onto and over Pollard.

    Pollard is then sort of on his knees, semi-upright, facing Brady, and tries to step up. Morris is apparently p!ssed that he got flipped over by Pollard, so he reaches out and grabs Pollard by the neck or facemask, bringing Pollard's back to Morris. That's a pretty bad hold, but I think we can both say our teams have been the victim and beneficiary of holds, over the years, but even if you want to press it, fine, 10 yard penalty against the Pats. That's not the issue.

    At this point Morris is holding Pollard. They're both facing each other, both are on their knees. Morris isn't "on Pollard's back" like everyone keeps saying. Morris is holding Pollard by his facemask or neck. Apparently Morris decides he should let go of Pollard, which he does. You see Morris's left arm come out from underneath Pollard's helmet. At this point Pollard is free to move as he sees fit.

    Pollard then proceeds to leep into Brady's leg. This motion was not caused by Morris. You can clearly see Pollard plant the tips of his toes and then lunge with his legs straight at Brady's shin. It looks like Morris then pushes Pollard to the side, away from Brady, which may have prevented Pollard from causing even more damage to Brady. But Morris in no way caused Pollard to lunge at Brady's leg.

    Under the NFL's interpretation, a defensive player could do anything they wanted to a QB so long as they were coming off a block or a hold. "The left tackle pushed my shoulder as I was coming around the edge, so I had to fall into the QB's knee. Darn." A more reasonable interpretation would be that where the defensive player can control if he will hit the QB below the knee, then he can't. Pollard certainly had control over whether to hit Brady in the knee. It might have been the only way he could hit Brady before Brady could throw, but that isn't an excuse for any other rule. "The only way I could prevent the [sack/reception/touchdown] was to [hold/commit pass interference/horse collar]. - Ok, no penalty."

    Oh, underdogg, in case you didn't hear, the Matt Cassel express is coming to Indy this November and we're gonna run all over Dwight Freeney's @ss.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from boulderpatriot. Show boulderpatriot's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    You are an amusing monkey Adonis. The Pats will be fine. Your pathetic attempt to gain pleasure from others dissapointment will go unanswered. Clearly, logical discoures with you is a waste of time. Good night.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Norger. Show Norger's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    [Quote]This is an asinine statement. Can pats fans EVER see things clearly?

    Forget your rule book, I'll take it from your words.

    First, with Morris on Pollard's back (clearly holding - why wasn't a flag thrown?), how do you call that an unrestricted path?

    Additionally, how can you suggest that Pollard, with Morris (220#) trying to hold him down, had enough strength and self control to zero in specifically on Brady's knee.

    Additionally, just as Pollard lunged forward, Brady also stepped forward. Had Brady never stepped forward, Pollard's lunge would have fallen far short of Brady's knee.

    So, given all of the above, how can you possibly consider his hit flagrant?

    Since you are so willing to see this from such a limited perspective, I want to add some contrary thoughts to the play and injury and see what you think.

    Watch the play in full. after the hit, Brady (being the great player and competitor he is) still follows through to make the throw further torquing his knee and putting added pressure on his ligaments. The point: as the hit takes place Brady is still stable enough to actually make the throw. As someone who has torn both ACL's when the tear happens, you lose all stability. The leg gives out. You can tell from the video that Brady loses stability after making the throw, not immediately after the hit. So it is possible that had Brady not followed through on that throw, he may not have torn his ligaments.

    Clarity please and thoughts[/Quote]

    Oy vey Underdogg?! Do you realy think for a nanosecond this would be your reaction if this happened to Peyton or even Eli?! You, a diehard Colts fan, are supposed to represent the voice of objectivity here?!!! This was very similar to the play on Carson Palmer. You're the first and only person I've heard who has suggested that Pollard was being held. (OMG!!!!!) Read the rule and tell me where it says that it's OK to hit the QB below the knee if he follows through with the throw. (Clarity please!) I suppose you can reasonably debate whether Pollard's path was or wasn't "unrestricted," but the bottom line is that the QB is extremely vulnerable in this situation, hence the rule. No way to prove it, I personally believe that the reaction around the league, and perhaps the NFL's ruling on the alleged "legality" of this play would have been completley different if this had happened to Peyton Manning and not to Tom Brady. At a minimum, I'll bet my annual salary that we'd be looking at a proposed rule change from Polian. Am I cynical and biased? Probably, but as the saying goes, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. And the officiating in the Pats-Colts game last year's game was an excellent example of exactly what I'm talking about.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Norger. Show Norger's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    [Quote]This is an asinine statement. Can pats fans EVER see things clearly?

    Forget your rule book, I'll take it from your words.

    First, with Morris on Pollard's back (clearly holding - why wasn't a flag thrown?), how do you call that an unrestricted path?

    Additionally, how can you suggest that Pollard, with Morris (220#) trying to hold him down, had enough strength and self control to zero in specifically on Brady's knee.

    Additionally, just as Pollard lunged forward, Brady also stepped forward. Had Brady never stepped forward, Pollard's lunge would have fallen far short of Brady's knee.

    So, given all of the above, how can you possibly consider his hit flagrant?

    Since you are so willing to see this from such a limited perspective, I want to add some contrary thoughts to the play and injury and see what you think.

    Watch the play in full. after the hit, Brady (being the great player and competitor he is) still follows through to make the throw further torquing his knee and putting added pressure on his ligaments. The point: as the hit takes place Brady is still stable enough to actually make the throw. As someone who has torn both ACL's when the tear happens, you lose all stability. The leg gives out. You can tell from the video that Brady loses stability after making the throw, not immediately after the hit. So it is possible that had Brady not followed through on that throw, he may not have torn his ligaments.

    Clarity please and thoughts[/Quote]

    Oy vey Underdogg?! Do you realy think for a nanosecond this would be your reaction if this happened to Peyton or even Eli?! You, a diehard Colts fan, are supposed to represent the voice of objectivity here?!!! This was very similar to the play on Carson Palmer. You're the first and only person I've heard who has suggested that Pollard was being held. (OMG!!!!!) Read the rule and tell me where it says that it's OK to hit the QB below the knee if he follows through with the throw. (Clarity please!) I suppose you can reasonably debate whether Pollard's path was or wasn't "unrestricted," but the bottom line is that the QB is extremely vulnerable in this situation, hence the rule. No way to prove it, I personally believe that the reaction around the league, and perhaps the NFL's ruling on the alleged "legality" of this play would have been completley different if this had happened to Peyton Manning and not to Tom Brady. At a minimum, I'll bet my annual salary that we'd be looking at a proposed rule change from Polian. Am I cynical and biased? Probably, but as the saying goes, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. And the officiating in the Pats-Colts game last year's game was an excellent example of exactly what I'm talking about.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    Let me begin by saying that I feel very badly for all pats fans and the pats as well. I would wish this on no one. It sucks.

    But that does not mean that I believe the hit to the knee was intentional. Given all of the variables of the play along with the speed of the play, there is NO WAY one can rationally believe that the hit was flagrant and the knee as the target was intentional.

    Do you believe that there is any coach in the league that coaches their players to stay on the ground if they have been taken to the ground while the play is still live? NO WAY. Do you believe that Bill Belichick coaches that way? NO WAY. If that is the way the game is to be played, then maybe it becomes Sammy Morris's responsiblilty to let Pollard get up to continue the play so that there is no question about the player going low. How many agree with that?

    I understand the frustration and emotion, but this hit to the knee was not intentional.

    If it is any consolation (I know it won't be) with Matt Cassel, Iif the pats and colts played this weekend, I think the pats win by 21. We got a QB at about 70%, an offensive line with 3-4 back up starting. A defensive line that got slaughtered last week and the one potential shining light on that line will be cut today because he was caught speeding and smoking dope in his car. Tuesday night. The idiot could not roll his windows down because he just had them tinted, so when he was pulled over it and the door was opened it was like spicoli and his buddies getting out of smoky car. Idiot.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    [Quote]

    Another fool trying to blame Brady.

    Genius, if Pollard wasn't going low on Brady, where would he have hit him had Brady not stepped forward? Big hint here: it wasn't not the lower leg. He was going for below the knee. Get it? He was lunging for where he shouldn't be lunging. He was making an illegal hit.

    Edit: I agree with Tex below: Get lost.[/Quote]

    Enoch - Did you want Pollard to give up on the play? Of course you did. With Sammy Morris on top of him, what choice did Pollard have to get to the QB? His only option was to lunge. Where does the mentality come from that if you are on the ground you must give up on the play?

    Those of you who believe Pollard should be punished for the hit also believe Belichick misinterpretted the video rule. Take off the blinders.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    [Quote]

    Get lost, troll! If this had happened to Peyton Manning, I'm sure that you and the rest of those wussy Colt fans would be singing this tune.

    The Pollard hit was nearly identical to that by the former Steelers' DE Kimo von Oelhoffen on Carson Palmer in the 2005 season playoffs...which is the reason that this rule was incorporated to begin with.

    We know that deep down, the national media, Jets Goodell, and idiot fans like you are happy as clams over this. What are you knuckleheads going to do when the Patriots somehow manage to overcome this injury, and win the SB?[/Quote]

    What is up with the wussy colts fans comment - thats BS.

    The Pollard hit was very different from Oelfhoffen hit. Oelhoffen was on his feet. The Bengals offensive lineman had stopped playing and Oelhoffen DOVE down toward the knee. He had full control. Pollard had Morris riding him.

    I am not happy at all that this happened to Brady, but it doesn't change my opinion about the hit being legal. You're just not man enough to accept that.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    [Quote]For Undercrap:

    He went right for his knees smart a**.[/Quote]
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    [Quote]Wow Underdogg. You are a moron. When does a QB not step forward when they throw the ball. Pollard was lunging at the ground a yard in front of Brady? Really?

    Anyways, I just said as a Pats fan that all I want is consitency. If Wilfork's hit was illegal, I would argue so was Pollards hit. I don't think he was aiming for knee trying to injure Brady. That seems silly. He tried to make a play. More power to him, but that play was likely illegal. Most Pats fans don't have blinders on, they just believe the hit was illegal and miss their star QB.

    Again I say, Brady is done for the year and nothing changes that. Let's ignore spygate, move past the Brady injury, ignore that pathetic team fans that relish brady's injury because the have a shot in hell at winning now, and root for the Pats.[/Quote]

    Boulder,

    Obviously, a QB steps up to make the throw. My comment was outlandish. As outlandish as those made suggesting that Pollard's hit was punishable.

    Again, I accept the protection of the QB perspective, but this is not practice and he is not wearing a different colored jersey and the play is not over until the whistle blows. Morris did not stop riding him after he had him down. Morris held him as long as he could.

    I watched the Wilfork video and I tend to agree with you. He had a clearer path than Pollard and was on his feet, but it does appear that he got hit from behind which may have caused him to lunge. I think because he led with his elbow and because of his reputation are the reasons he may have been punished. But I don't fully disagree with you about consistency.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    Mighty,

    Good analysis. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I am only contending that it was not flagrant or punishable.

    I agree that both are essentially on their knees facing each other (and opposite sidelines (not the endzones - which is key). Morris is on top of Pollard. His helmet appears to be about halfway down pollards back and his shoulders are over pollards shoulders.

    When Morris does release his "brady side arm" that does give Pollard his opportunity. But Morris is still weighing down on Pollard as Pollard lunges. Per your statement, the defender can do any thing if they are coming off a block or a hold. I would clearly say that Pollard is doing both. And while Morris may have given up on his facemask and hold, he did not sit back to allow Pollard to get up and make (by your standards) a "legal" move toward the QB.

    Finally while Pollard was certainly trying to get to Brady, he has no control over Brady's movements. He can't know that Brady was going to move up at that time or if he was going to move further back or left or right. He dove at Brady. Had Brady not moved Pollards arms might have been at Brady's feet (who knows).

    Watch the play. If Pollard was trying to get Brady's knee, wouldn't he have lowered his helmet into it? It appears that it is the side of pollard's helmet that hits Brady's knee, not the front of his helmet. Pollard hit brady like everyone is taught to hit, with the helmet to the side, not head on. No penalty.

    Finally, read an earlier post. At this point not only could Matt Cassel beat the colts, so could Tom Brady (with his injury).
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from nykrb. Show nykrb's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    I think the NFL has sent a HORRIBLE messege to players and teams.

    The NFL's decision to call the hit on Brady legal, completely within the rules, will have a devastating effect for another QB in the not too distant future. I am not advocating for it to happen, but I can see how this ruling will help lead to it.

    Lets not forget the NFL has more than its share of Pacman Jones and Albert Haynesworth (who was suspended for kicking a Cowboys player in the face) types.

    And THAT is why this ruling on that hit is a TERRIBLE one. It will give SOME of the less mature players the idea that its OK to take out a QBs knees.

    Its funny how the NFL wanted to make an example of Wilfork for his hit on Losman by fining him (despite his appeal and apology), but the NFL chooses not to make an example out of a player who (intentionally or not) ended the season of the NFL MVP with a helmet to the knee.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from underdogg. Show underdogg's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    [Quote]

    Oy vey Underdogg?! Do you realy think for a nanosecond this would be your reaction if this happened to Peyton or even Eli?! You, a diehard Colts fan, are supposed to represent the voice of objectivity here?!!! This was very similar to the play on Carson Palmer. You're the first and only person I've heard who has suggested that Pollard was being held. (OMG!!!!!) Read the rule and tell me where it says that it's OK to hit the QB below the knee if he follows through with the throw. (Clarity please!) I suppose you can reasonably debate whether Pollard's path was or wasn't "unrestricted," but the bottom line is that the QB is extremely vulnerable in this situation, hence the rule. No way to prove it, I personally believe that the reaction around the league, and perhaps the NFL's ruling on the alleged "legality" of this play would have been completley different if this had happened to Peyton Manning and not to Tom Brady. At a minimum, I'll bet my annual salary that we'd be looking at a proposed rule change from Polian. Am I cynical and biased? Probably, but as the saying goes, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you. And the officiating in the Pats-Colts game last year's game was an excellent example of exactly what I'm talking about.[/Quote]

    Um, see the post above you. One of your own also says Pollard is being held (and facemasked) by Morris.

    And since you bring up the officiating in last year's pats-colts game, I will bring up the officiating in the pats colts game in 04, when the colts receivers were mugged all over the field. And all this talk about rules changes. All the colts asked for was that the rules already on the books be enforced. It goes both ways.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from nykrb. Show nykrb's posts

    The Hit was not Legal!

    Some of the BS explanations by Trolls on this MB are sad, its unreal that anyone would even try to call that anything but a dirty and deliberate hit.

    I know the NFL doesn't, but then again, the NFL these days likes to turn over INTs (Polamalu in playoffs against Colts) that can't be over-turned, and coin flips (Steelers OT) to try and get their desired results from a game.

    Now they are going to BS around one of the most obvious 'intent to hit the QB low' tackles I've ever seen. But don't take my word for it, look at the stills and watch the tape for yourself:

    http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=editorial&assetType=image&ep=2&p=brady%20nfl%2C%20hurt&src=standard#1


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnHcSujDMh4&feature=iv
     

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