1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerandrew. Show tylerandrew's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    ���������������������������������������������� He had two very nice months with zero pressureDoes that include the World Series?�zero pressure--stop���������������������������������������������� Until he gets a consistent swing, he will never hit for a high average consistently�during an entire season He has a .336 ave. in the bigs to this point.You make it sound like the kid can't catch a ball. He's a great fielder right now. He dropped a ball after running into wall. He would be starting for the Yankees right now.The cream will rise to top, even though you can't see it�

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from detourjazz. Show detourjazz's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    it's not about me being from Oregon . here's the bottom line, when any team (in my opinion) has such a good prosect / rookie with so much potential. . I'd think they'd put him in . to see what he really has. .

    NOW if there was a huge skill difference between them. . . . say like Manny Vs Ellsbury. . well there'd be no contest. . . but they're close. . if not just seperated by EXPERIENCE. . . and i am all for giving the kid experience early on. .when it's not as "IMPORTANT" every game. . .

    that logic. . shouldn't fail anyone here. . i mean if he's as good as people think he could be. . why not try him out? any other team out there.. i bet. . would have him playing regularly!

    that's my point ..and all this argument is pointless.untill he gets his 200 ABs.. or 100 ABs. .and we can talk facts. .

    so i'm going to . . for now on say "we'll see" wait until he gets some regular playing time!

    and I'm not JUST an oregonian. . I'm from his hometown. . BUT.. i've been a sox fan since 81

    so : )

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ceardley. Show ceardley's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    You're an idiot. Learn some spelling and grammar and then post on public message boards.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rgmfick. Show rgmfick's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    Tito has won 2 more World Championships than any other Red Sox Manager in my lifetime.� He and Theo work well together.� I think Jacoby will get more playing time as the season goes along, but I also understand needing to give Coco playing time.� As a switch hitter, it made a lot of sense to play Coco against Rogers.� Coco also made 2 nice plays in the CF.�� The Red Sox are in a good position.� Coco and Ellsbury can caddy for Manny and occasionally for Drew.� They also are going to get a lot of ABs.� The only player who is not totally happy the way this has worked out is Bobby Kielty and if could have been picked up by another team looking for Kielty he had the opportunity.� I don't mean to parrot Tito but I think his words were that "these things have a way of working themselves out.� Because the frequency of use of relief pitchers really limits the number of players on the bench, I think it is very important to have 4 outfielders you are comfortable playing.� The Sox made some decisions when they signed Sean Casey, not really as versatile as Hinkske or an accomplished outfielder.� Cora needs to be able to play all infield positions and, Kevin Cash, not being�versatile as someone like Inge,�Coco and Ellsbury need to be able to play all 3 outfield positions.� Think we should let Tito do his job as he said see how things work themselves out.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slikrick04. Show slikrick04's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    He had no pressure if he messed up, because there were no expectations. They put him in there because he had been swinging a good bat. ��� He gets bad jumps on balls, and his speed allows him to make up some of his mistakes, while Coco makes them look routine. I'm not saying that he stinks, but he is over hyped when even comparing him to other center fielders in MLB. They should have traded him while his stock was so high at the end of the season. ���No way....Melky is better than Jacoby at this point....better defense and arm, clutch hitter, and more power.��

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from billy13. Show billy13's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    ��"�No way....Melky is better than Jacoby at this point....better defense and arm, clutch hitter, and more power.�� "You have gone off the yankee deep end this time and I cant believe you have convinced yourself that Melky is anything but an average ballplayer. Clutch hitter? Laughable. He has good speed, but his 16 carreer HR in over 1000 at bats doesnt translate to power. He's not going to hit 20-25 jacks. The only reason he is playing at all is because of the injuries to Damon and Matsui. If Damon was what the yankees paid for, he would be the CF and Matsui would play LF. Melky would be the 4th, where he belongs. .275 avg and career .341 OBP. He is Coco�basically but nowhere near the defensive player. As for Ellsbury, lets wait until he gets 1000 ABs and see what kind of player he is.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigdog1. Show bigdog1's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    I think francona's strength's is his ability to manage players, it's hison the field decision mking that is painful to watch.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mascmen7. Show mascmen7's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    Crisp is untradeable so do not expect him to go. He can not hit and fails on sacrifice bunts sometimes. His contract is expensive to many teams as Theo is so generous. He will have to be given away like Wily Mo Pena which Theo is refusing to do. Most of team can not hit especially Ortiz so Crisp is ok for now until team wakes up and smells the coffee.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-benchwarmer. Show the-benchwarmer's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    This is similar to Fire Doc threads in the Celtics front.

    Francona already showed you that he knows whats he's doing. Give the man a break.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from goznes. Show goznes's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    Hi,
    Lugo had as many rbi last year as Derek Jeter. Maybe he's not as bad as some people make him out to be.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from slikrick04. Show slikrick04's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    You don't have to hit hr to have power, thats why they call it the power alleys..����� I mentioned that�Melky is better than�Jacoby at this time. I didn't say that he was a power hitter, I was saying that he had more power than Jacoby, which he does. ���� Listen, Jacoby will never be better or even close�to Tori Hunter, so lets get the Fred Lynn comparison out of here. Unless he gains about 20 lbs of muscle, this is the best he is going to get. He has the weakest and slappy swing that I've ever seen in a MLB hitter; almost everything he hits�is a flare. Many�of his hits last year just found holes. �Hey, it was magical for two months, so lets see if he gets that magic back. So far, he is�no where like the spark he was coming off the bench last year.��� Last year kind of reminded me of Denny Doyle killing everyone for two months in 75`, only he wasn't nearly as fast. I think Jacoby's speed as everyone mesmorized (s). He isn't that much faster than Coco.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from billy13. Show billy13's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    Melky is an average player and has nowhere near the upside of Ellsbury. You called Melky a "clutch hitter" (yeah right) and he doesnt have more power than Ellsbury. His 50 doubles in 1000 at bats and only 16 HR show he has "no power". You havent seen enough of Ellsbury to say he gets bad jumps on ball in the field. Thats ridicoulous. Im not an ellsbury lover like many on this board, but if you gave me the option of Melky or Ellsbury, its a no brainer. Melky is your starting CF and hits 8hr with a .275 average and thats ok? He is a 4th outfielder, and I expect you to come back on these boards and acknowledge your words when Ellsbury gets it going.

    Tori Hunter is one of the most overated players of his generation. He is a lifetime .270 hitter and his OBP is .324 lower than Melky. He never hit .300 in his whole carreer, strikes out over 100 times a year, and never had more than 50 walks in his career. He never scored 100 runs. He has one good offensive season 2007. Would you pay 90 million for him over 5 years???

    Lets let Ellsbury have at least half a season to decide what kind of player he is. We know about Melky and Hunter.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slikrick04. Show slikrick04's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    As you call Torri over-rated, and I agree, Jacoby will never be as good. You've just substatiated my statement, as I don't have to wait and see. ����Go ahead and dream on billy, but unless he adds more umpphh to that weak and slappy�swing of his, that upside is not too high.��� As far as clutch, comparing him to Jacoby, not Papi....LOL

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from slikrick04. Show slikrick04's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    Hunter is better than his stats show, as the teams would not let him beat them by pitching around him. Now that he is on a better offensive team, he will see better pitches and I expect him to be more productive. Jeter looks so good because of the hitters that he's always had behind him. Pitch around him, and his numbers would suffer too. ���� I agree that Melky is average if not less, and my statement was AT THIS POINT, he was better. I guess you'll continue to try and turn my words around.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerandrew. Show tylerandrew's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    I'm boycotting the Sox until Crisp is gone, he hasn't had one month since joining the�Sox like�Ellsbury had last September! Now that Francona has made his choice, I've made mine!!!!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerandrew. Show tylerandrew's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    First day of my boycott and I guess I missed a good�game by Ellsbury. What to do tonight, I guess watch last years playoffs. It must be hard when one can't see talent. I wonder what Francona does tonight, will he start Ellsbury or go back to that goofy platoon. Have to read tomorrows paper to find out. Signing off, depressed Ellsbury fan!

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from tylerandrew. Show tylerandrew's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    �Thanks for the support, Ellsbury could be there best CF/leadoff prospect I've ever seen. Not watching a Sox game is like watching your friends eat pizza in front of you when you were a kid. I'm watching�WS�game 4 tonight, I think Jacoby/Dustin go 7 for 9, should be a hoot!!!

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wd62627. Show wd62627's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    In the spirit of Sunday, i figured i'd beat a dead horse...

    Listening to Adams and Buckley and hour ago -

    Steve Buckley - "Unfortunately, Francona's job right now is to showcase Coco to better justify their end of a potential trade this season."

    He's only been covering baseball since the beginning of time, so feel free to harp on the irrellevence of his professional opinion now also.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from whitelion. Show whitelion's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    To call Francona a hypocrite is about the dumbest comment I've ever read about baseball.Francona is a great great handler of players.He's the major reason the Sox
    won last year despite all the Theo the Genuis's bad personnel moves that list includes
    revolving door at shortstop since 04, Drew, Arroyo etc etc.Francona has created a climate
    that's comfortable for the players to excel.All this talk about hypocricy is Garbage.The
    Ellsbury case is nothing like the Pedroia case mainly because they are trying to showcase
    Crisp.Sure Francona isn't the GM but as manager its in his interest to get max value for
    Crisp.But I guess this concept is too complicated for tylerandrew to grasp.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from wd62627. Show wd62627's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    Who are they showcasing him for?� Probably anyone that would take him.. He's a gold glove caliber CF, who has shown flashes of potential including one .300 plus season under his belt, but never lived up to expectations here.� If the intention was to play Coco every day - and he's batted in all but two games - then Ellsbury should be in Pawtucket getting AB's.� There is no other reason to have the kid sitting on the bench if the expectation isnt to have Crisp moved in the near future.I just value the constant flow of professional opinions that seem to confirm the belief of the masses.� It also makes me smile knowing that there are a few people constantly berate the concept on this board, by knocking all of the sources, while never providing a conflicting source, just a gut feeling that "showcasing" doesnt exist in baseball, because it is a juvenile concept.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from wd62627. Show wd62627's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    Calling the Drew signing a "bad personell move" is just plain laughable.You are ignoring a dominant career of a 5 tool player who is currently on fire, and replacing that image with a one bad season that was set up for inevitable failure by the fans and media alike.They replaced Trot Nixon with JD Drew... would you rather Trot?� Who else- Eric Hinske?� Come on, get real...Do you watch baseball?� Or do you just read Bob Ryan's articles and then post..

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from wd62627. Show wd62627's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    I concur... I just felt like rehashing an old argument that stemmed from a few haters crying that showcasing doesnt exist in major league baseball...� Its too funny to me.They also dont believe in dinosaurs or men on the moon.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    I'm a little cloudy on the thinking here, so some please enlighten me.� I understand Coco has no value and has no right to start in CF.� Ellsbury is the man, the future, and Coco is a has been, if an ever was.� That I understand.� The Sox want to showcase him to all the teams that also know that Coco is no good, so they play him everyday.� Why?� If he is horrible as "the masses" say, why are they showcasing him?� To let the other teams know he is horrible?� Seems to me that as bad as Coco is, they would be better off never playing him, so that other teams might still think he is valuable, instead of the waste of space and money that he is.Obviously, the front office and Tito think Coco is valuable, as do I.� To quote Baseball Prospectus 2008 (since some seem to like to quote experts) "Crisp's glovework in centerfield last year was astounding, a defensive performance that wouldn't have looked out of line in Andruw Jones's peak.� That league-leading ERA the Sox pitchers posted had everything to do with the team's leauge-best defense, which was anchored by Crisp."� On Ellsbury's defense (they agree with most that his offense, though lacking in power, is made for Fenway and that he is a ROY favorite).� "Ellsbury is one of the fastest players in baseball, and that speed enables him to outrun the misreads he makes in center field.� ...� his rawness in center will lead to some embarrassing moments..."� (Again, I left out the parts where he will be a good hitter for�Fenway, be a contender�for the batting title, and a Rookie of the Year favorite.� We all�feel that.� Some�more strongly than others, but�I think we all feel Jacoby will be a very good lead off hitter)�This is why the Sox are playing Crisp.� Defense.� I think this is more important in the beginning of the season when it is tougher to hit because of the cold.� A saved run�could keep a pitcher in a little longer, keep the pitch counts down, help the bullpen.� Again, more important in the beginning of the year when teams don't want their starters getting too high a pitch count.� Right now, I think Francona feels that on most days right now, Coco may save more runs over Ellsbury than Ellsbury can create over Crisp.� More likely, as�Jacoby gets more seasoning, more�tutoring from Crisp,�Francona will be�feel more�comfortable playin him more often.� Plus, in the meantime, the FO may find a team that is willing to give the Sox what they want for Crisp.� Just a thought.� I will give him the benefit of the doubt.� After all, he has only cost the Sox two titles (I am assuming he is the reason the Sox didn't win in '05 and '06 since they won in spite of him in '04 and '07.� Yes, I am ending in sarcasm, as I started).

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from wd62627. Show wd62627's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    "If he is horrible as "the masses" say, why are they showcasing him?� To let the other teams know he is horrible?� Seems to me that as bad as Coco is, they would be better off never playing him, so that other teams might still think he is valuable, instead of the waste of space and money that he is.Obviously, the front office and Tito think Coco is valuable, as do I."Exactly why he is playing - They believe he CAN be of value, and nobody else does.� If nobody else sees it, then he isnt going anywhere..Also- the defense was ANCHORED by gold glove award winning first baseman Kevin Youkilis and assisted by 2006 GG Catcher JV and 2005 GG winner and World Series MVP hot corner Mike Lowell.And the offense was weakened by his second consecutive sub .270 season.� Playing GG caliber CF AND batting .300 right now is increasing his value and stirring up interest on the open market as other starting CF's are showing their true colors.� Teams are going to look to make some adjustments shortly, and are goign to want someone with proven upside, not some offensive stats from 3 years ago and the baseball prospectus quote that he was the anchor of the teams defense in 2007.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    The Hypocrisy of Francona

    And that is my point.� He is not only playing to showcase him, but because he DOES have value and IS helping the team.� Yes, part of the league-best defense is Lowell and Youk, but it is the defense up the middle that most feel is critical.� An aside, I don't think Tek gets enough credit from some of the fans as he should.�

     
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