1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    I have stated many times that i want the Tampa Bay Lugo to come back to Boston and be our starting SS. That Lugo was a .280 avg. .340 OBP 10 HR player.

    Softlaw/s/e/2 was posting some BS earlier that tried to say this was "patently false" but I couldn't read half of it as he ruined an entire thread with his feeble cut and paste skills. We'll forgive him b/c he's new to using stats to back up opinion.

    These are the stats for Lugo's years in TB that pertain to the type of player I said he was when playing there:

    03 - 117 games .275 avg. .333 OBP 15 HR's
    04 - 157 games .275 avg. .338 OBP 7 HR's
    05 - 158 games .295 avg. .362 OBP 6 HR's
    06 - 73 games .308 avg. .378 OBP 12 HR's

    Now can anyone tell me how that doesn't make him a .280/.340/10 HR player??

    That's what he was in Tampa Bay, he was actually getting better in avg's each year, and that's the player Theo and the fans expected to arrive in '07, the expectations he has 100% failed at meeting so far, making him a bust to date...

    and the stats that give us a glimmer of hope of what he could become again and what we 'd all love in '09
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Let's run the numbers, considering the less games played in both 03 (worst stats) and 06 (best stats) and what do you come up with???

    .286 avg. .350 OBP 10 HR

    I was lowballing the TB Lugo for months...

    That is the guy we were looking to get, or something close to it, instead we got 35-40 points WORSE avg./OBP and half the HR's...

    This doesn't take into consideration the miserable OBP+ stats here, compared to solid ones elsewhere, that is more tph's fav stat then mine, but it obv proves my points as well

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    You forgot to mention walks and SBs.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo


    If Jason Bay came here and in half of '08 and all of '09 hit .255 w/ a .350 OBP and 18 HR's would we call him a bust?

    What about Drew? We were pretty annoyed with his .270/.373/11 HR in his debut season '07

    What if it was .255/.355/8??


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    [Quote]You forgot to mention walks and SBs.[/Quote]

    His walks in '07 were less than the avg's in TB, but not awful

    He posted his 2nd best RBI total ever in '07 (party due to the lineup and lots of ground outs w/ runners on 3rd) and had his 2nd most steals ever...

    but those are not the more important stats that led to his demotion from 1st to 9th and clear status as a bust heading into '09

    please redeem yourself Julio
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BuschBound. Show BuschBound's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    He's tearing the cover off the ball in BP down here Kap and he's looking bigger if that's possible, lets see how he does against live pitching come tomorrow. I think he's got alot to prove and will.
     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Again

    When I say please bring back THE TAMPA BAY LUGO I was right that Lugo was a .280/.340/10 HR guy IN TAMPA BAY.. not "in TB in 03 and 04 only... but in TB in 03-04-05-06" He was even BETTER than I thought.

    You are the fool Softy who tries to look at only half his TB numbers, or tries to think we should pay attention to 2 months as a bench player/platoon second baseman in LA over 22 months as the starting SS in the AL East

    You don't have a leg to stand on

    As always

    stats prove you wrong

    Tampa Bay Lugo was MUCH better than the bust of a Boston Lugo...

    His career average (.271/.335/8.5 HR's) is MUCH BETTER than in Boston (.247/.314/4.5). It takes a blind fool like yourself not to see that. It takes an idiot to try and say hitting 25 points less with half the HR's than in his career "tells the story". Yeah it tells the story that he has clearly been worse than expected. Since Lugo was VERY BAD in Boston in '07 and below average in '08 that makes his career averages that much worse NOW than they were when the Sox got him.

    God you are clueless and blind
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Lugo - above average/very good player in 3 + years in TB

    Lugo - average/solid numbers overall career

    Lugo - below average/historically bad #'s in Boston

    Lugo - bust as of Feb 2009

    Lugo = a possible very valuable part of a very good 2009 team if he returns close to his .280/.340/10 Hr Tampa Bay form, and all Sox fans should hope for this
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    how Softlaw tries to present his drivel as a legit argument is pathetic...

    03 - 117 games .275 avg. .333 OBP 15 HR's
    04 - 157 games .275 avg. .338 OBP 7 HR's

    Someone please explain to this tool that the above numbers are right around Lugo's career averages. Yet, we're supposed to pick up 05, where Lugo had 6 HR's and a partial 06,


    So the Tampa Bay Lugo is only a .275/.336 10.5 HR Lugo b/c of his 03 (also 'partial') and 04 stats in 274 games?

    In the Softlaw world we then ignore the 231 games in TB in 05 and 06 where Lugo hit .298/.366 b/c they don't fit in w/ Softy's argument. What a joke this guy is.

    Let me repeat those stats too.

    In Lugo's last 231 games in the AL East as the starting SS he hit .298 w/ a .366 OBP.

    But Softy says his "career" stats, ones affected by his last 2 years in Boston and 2 months in LA... that still overall CRUSH his Boston #'s, are the ones we should have expected when he arrived... or the 43 games he played out of position and off the bench in the NL West should have been expected

    then he ignores FACTS and says that it is "patently false" that Lugo was a .280/.340/10 HR guy in Tampa Bay.

    Well Softy you are "patently false" and a liar. Wake up to the facts.

    And TB Lugo.... please come back:-)
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    2007 Career high RBI's

    Another Softy LIE

    Lugo had 75 RBI in 2004 and 73 in 2007... the guy can't read stats to save his life.

    That is nit-picking I know, RBI was one of the only positives about the '07 Lugo, but coming up w/ a ton of men on 3rd (b/c you hit in a great lineup) and getting a bunch of ground out RBI's isn't impressive, or telling of his skills, in my book.

    The .294 OBP... hideously bad compared to even the .336 ellsbury posted in '08 (a stat Softy never fails to say was awful) and the fact that Lugo was demoted from 1st to 9th tells the tale of his bust 2007 season.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from czap. Show czap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Ram, I usually agree with you. My thinking is . Why hold Lowrie back any longer. I think he will be a solid major league shortstop. I know what you are going to say. Lugo has a big contract. Eat it and dump Lugo. His act has gotten old. He will not be a good bench guy because he was too good of friends with Manny and will be a cancer in the clubhouse. How hard is it to get a utility player?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Lugo is what he is, at 33 you cant expect a banner year.

    270 ish 7-10 HR 330 - 340 OBP, 25 - 30 SB, 65 - 70 runs
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    This is a total unknown right now, what is Lowrie we really have no idea?

    Lugo is he a 100 OPS+ of 70 OPS+

    Lugo gets bashed to much, by me also because he has been so bad to date and Lowrie to much love (not by me).

    this is by far the weakest position on team. However it has a chance to surprise.

    Lowrie flamed out pretty bad once pitchers figure him out. Honestly, Phil plantier was a monster year one then what . . . .give me 10 pedroia's who struggle then figure it out over a fast starter.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    tph,

    Lowrie's flame-out could also be contributed to a broken bone in his hand and the rookie wall, since he'd never played that long a season before, he came up big in the ALDS.

    I don't know if he gets "too much love" I've only ever compared him to maybe having a bill mueller career, .285/.360/10 HR type, a few years starting and then multiple position very very good utility guy a few more years

    but yes he is still an unknown
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    [Quote]This is a total unknown right now, what is Lowrie we really have no idea?

    Lugo is he a 100 OPS+ of 70 OPS+

    Lugo gets bashed to much, by me also because he has been so bad to date and Lowrie to much love (not by me).

    this is by far the weakest position on team. However it has a chance to surprise.

    Lowrie flamed out pretty bad once pitchers figure him out. Honestly, Phil plantier was a monster year one then what . . . .give me 10 pedroia's who struggle then figure it out over a fast starter.[/Quote]
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    [Quote]Ram, I usually agree with you. My thinking is . Why hold Lowrie back any longer. I think he will be a solid major league shortstop. I know what you are going to say. Lugo has a big contract. Eat it and dump Lugo. His act has gotten old. He will not be a good bench guy because he was too good of friends with Manny and will be a cancer in the clubhouse. How hard is it to get a utility player?[/Quote]

    Well thanks for agreeing. When it comes to "is Lugo a bust?" or " who played better lugo or lowrie?" debates.... there is no debate. And the facts just prove it.

    I never liked the eat his salary and dump him idea, def do it next year if Lowrie just improves and Lugo stays the bust. but for now all reports say Julio is stronger and motivated and has a chip on his shoulder. Let him have at it. As shown the TB Lugo was a solid major league player.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    Ram your realistic I think, some people are talking as if Lowrie is beyond a level where he is at.

    I realize he was hurt and he was offensive player in year in 2007, still he needs to show he can perform. I am much more concerned with his lack of range then his offense. Getting to 80+ less balls then a poor fielding Lugo is not a great solution.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rameakap. Show rameakap's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    yeah, i didn't know it was quite that bad, but Lugo's 19 error defense in '07 seems to me, w/ the range he has, as good as the '08 Lowrie 0 error D. Lugo was on pace for 30+ errors last year, more errors than extra base hits, so that obv can't be happening.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    If lugo or lowrie played great D you can deal with so/so offense but we cant have bad D and bad O.

    Shortstop is a defensive position and arguably the most important.
     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    The Next Stapleton?

    You see him a firstbaseman? With Lars Anderson and Youk? Doubtful.

    Stapleton as you recall had about a 4 year career, lets hope Jed lasts longer.

    He hit 321, 285 then never hit over 247 again. So you hope he stinks?

    I see him as a utility guy playing 90 - 110 games a year filling in all over, but he is not the starting shortstop by choice. He doesnt have the range. Unless he becomes a great hitter, if he turns into Bill Mueller then all bets are off, because the RS have a sub par defensive SS now they took for his stick.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    The Tampa Bay Lugo

    OK so here are the stats that matter.....
    byt first...
    "He had the 73 in way less games than the 75, you idiot! Once again, you are so stupid you don't deserve a reply." softlaw2
    soft it is 10 games not "...way less..." softy do not overstate unless you wish to be a Chicago politician and get caught with your pants down.


    "Notice how this tool doesn't note the Dodger 06 debacle, pretending that 06 is fully weighted in Tampa." softlaw2

    soft his stats in TB were all from playing SS 73 games. In LA he played 48 games only 8 at SS and the rest at 2nd, 3rd and the OF. So yes LA was bad but moving from ALE to NLW and not playing consistently at any position will cause such problems. So yes throw LA out the window.

    BTW the important part of Lugo's stats you both over look is runs scored. That is where he made his game in TB. I'd be happy with 160+ hits, 80+ Runs scored, 50 BBs and 25+SBs this year. It's not his power that is the important thing it is getting on base and creating runs, that is what he has not done here. His best years in TB were not in RBI's but runs scored, hits, walks and SB. You both are missing Lugo's value.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share