1. You have chosen to ignore posts from joshbeckett20and72007. Show joshbeckett20and72007's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    02 offseason: David Ortiz, Bill Mueller, Kevin Millar
    03 Offseason: Curt Schilling, Keith Foulke
    04 In season: Trading Nomar, Acquiring Orlando Cabrera,Doug Mientkiewicz,Dave Roberts
    04 Offseason: Letting Pedro Leave,
    05 Offseason: returning, letting damon leave
    06 Offseason: Letting Trot leave, Dice-K, Drew, giving pedroia a chance at the 2nd base job, Oki
    07 Offseason: Mike Lowell
    08 in season: Manny Ramirez for Jason Bay (manny was a club house cancer and his teammates wanted him gone)
    08 Offseason: TBD smoltz, penny, saito, ramon ramirez

    to sum this all up Theo is an outstanding GM and anyone who does not think so either cant admit the are wrong or is a complete idiot who is not a true Red Sox fan

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    Why is not loving Theo mean you can't be a "true Redsox fan"? He has made many good moves, as you have pointed out, most of which were in his first few years. I noticed no recent FA signings on your list. Even Dice-K came at a heavy cost. The Lowell re-signing is still a "TBD". The Ramirez>Bay also at best a TBD. Not re-signing a player can not be determined a good or a bad move, they are FAs just like hundreds of other players he signed or did not sign.

    Compare your list to the bad or leaning bad (TBD) deals and you can see, it is not as clear as you make it out to be.

    Renteria, Lugo, Tavarez and Schilling re-signing: Horrible!

    Drew (overpaid)TBD, Clement, W. Miller, and countless other mid to minor busts.

    Arroyo for W. Pena! OUCH!
    Murphy/Gabbard for Gagne. Yuck!
    The desperate Cla Merrideth/Bard for Mirabelli.
    The best hitter in baseball (Manny) for Bay.
    Throwing Schoppach in a deal to Cleve.
    Not trading for Santana.
    and a few more...

    Overpaying for Varitek (TBD at best)

    Saying anyone who sees the whole picture is some one who "can't admit they are wrong or is a complete idiot" says a lot about you not us. Take off the rosy glasses and look at reality. We were poised for a dynasty and Theo put it all at risk. Now we are putting our hopes on MASH unit signings and a return to greatness of several players who have shown serious decline in the past year(s): Ortiz, Lowell, Beckett, Lugo and Varitek. I hope they all bounce back. I hope Smoltz and Penny thrive under the Boston lights, but be serious, wouldn't you rather have the 2004 or 2007 team on the field this year?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BosoxJoe5. Show BosoxJoe5's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]

    Can't really argue with Moonslav here folks. there's nothing short of absolute truth there.

    And a bit of accuracy...Josh Beckett/Mike Lowell were part of the deal Lucchino and Henry worked when they came here after selling the Marlins. Theo had nothing to do with that. Lucchino exclusively handled the David Ortiz acquisition as well.[/Quote]

    Lucchino was never in Florida and Henry bought the team in 02. Before Beckett was even called up and before the Marlins won it all.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Roast1999. Show Roast1999's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    All I can say is I can't wait for the games to start.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]

    Lucchino was never in Florida and Henry bought the team in 02. Before Beckett was even called up and before the Marlins won it all.[/Quote]

    He meant Lucchino made the Dan D. best kids (Han Ram & Sanchez) for Beckett?Lowell trade from Boston as Theo was quitting. (Not as Marlin)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]Moonslav... yes, Theo has made a few dumb moves but some of the moves you pointed out weren't as bad as they appear.

    You can't judge the Manny for Bay deal just yet. People get so caught up with what Manny did in LA last year, but theres NO WAY he puts up anything close to those numbers with the Sox if they didn't trade him. Judge that deal after this year.

    Gabbard and Murphy for Gagne... Yes Gagne was terrible but you also gotta view it from the sense that neither Gabbard or Murphy were in the Red Sox future plans so they had to trade them at some point while they still had the most value. It was a risk that he took that could have paid off to be amazing but overall i see where Theo came from when making that deal.

    Shoppach isn't that good.

    Not trading for Johan made alot of sense. It's not about what we would be giving up but its about the contract that we would have had to pay him after the deal. If we made that deal, Pedroia and Youk would not be locked up long term yet.[/Quote]

    I even counted the Manny>Bay deal as a TBD (To BE Determined) not as a bad deal, even though I think it was horrible.
    Murphy would be a very cheap and good 4th OF.
    Shoppach (350ABs .261 21 HRs) is better and cheaper than Varitek.

    What's the last great Theo FA signing or trade? Been a while hasn't it?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BuschBound. Show BuschBound's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    "Why is not loving Theo mean you can't be a true Redsox fan"?

    "We were poised for a dynasty and Theo put it all at risk."


    BECAUSE IT"S ALL YOU EVER TALK ABOUT AND RESPOND TO!!

    Do you have any memories prior to '04?
    Do you go to any games? Post season? Spring training?
    Do you have any historical highlights in that head of yours? Are you old enough to remember '67, '75. '86 to name a few?

    You have a serious fixation with Theo & the post D.D. era (our most successful era ever) that makes one wonder just who the hell you do root for.

    The would'a, could'a, should'a dynasty you speak of is a pipe dream and do you really think if we had Pedro, Damon, Nixon, Nomar and Arroyo that we would have won it all in '07 and come oh' so close to the WS in '08??

    I think not son...you have to expand your horizons and stop dwelling on the past, we have a damn good team here and it sounds as if you don't realize it.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]"Why is not loving Theo mean you can't be a true Redsox fan"?

    "We were poised for a dynasty and Theo put it all at risk."


    BECAUSE IT"S ALL YOU EVER TALK ABOUT AND RESPOND TO!!

    Do you have any memories prior to '04?
    Do you go to any games? Post season? Spring training?
    Do you have any historical highlights in that head of yours? Are you old enough to remember '67, '75. '86 to name a few?

    You have a serious fixation with Theo & the post D.D. era (our most successful era ever) that makes one wonder just who the hell you do root for.

    The would'a, could'a, should'a dynasty you speak of is a pipe dream and do you really think if we had Pedro, Damon, Nixon, Nomar and Arroyo that we would have won it all in '07 and come oh' so close to the WS in '08??

    I think not son...you have to expand your horizons and stop dwelling on the past, we have a damn good team here and it sounds as if you don't realize it.
    [/Quote]

    You are 100% wrong. I respond to many different threads. Many supportive of Theo or Redsox players.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    I read Bill Simmions article on Manny and researched it, Manny is the 10th best Right handed batter in MLB History which is great, I dont see how he makes him the best. There is no evidence of it. there are 9 players he is never getting past including Pujols is 2nd all time. Article is on thebaseballpage.com

    There is no question Pujols is a better player at 28 then Manny was. If you add overall game into Manny is definatly in top 10 but not the best. OPS+ for there career Manny 155 - Pujol's 170 that is a huge difference. Plus Pujols is GG firstbaseman.

    As for everything else, the Red Sox are the second best franchise in this decade winning percentage wise and only team with two WS titles which with 80% of decade played makes them team of decade right now. What else can you say?

    Every GM makes bad moves, in the end we want the RS to win, they have won more playoff games this decade then any other team, more titles and the second most regular seasons games by a wisker.

    The only terrible moves IMO are the
    Bard/Meridith trade and Arroyo for Pena trade. Schilling for 08, what can you do the guy delivered to WS titles.

    Gabbard is a nothing pitcher now, they needed Gagne, he failed as a player but he made a move that was needed.

    Lugo, Drew you can debate but you can not debate a WS Title and 7 Game ALSC loss.

    I am not going into the Manny/Santana we will know down the road if those moves should of been made or not.

    The results are there and the RS are the model, who would of ever thought that?

    As for last great FA signing how about Dice K? Okie? Youk Long Term, Pedroia long term, Beckett to cheap extension, re sign Lowell, although there are questions with health they got Smoltz, Penny, Siato and Baldelli.

    Colon and Byrd ended up being key players in 2008.

    They drafted in last 3 years:
    Lowrie
    Masterson
    Bard
    Anderson
    Ellsbury
    Bucholtz
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]I read Bill Simmions article on Manny and researched it, Manny is the 10th best Right handed batter in MLB History which is great, I dont see how he makes him the best. There is no evidence of it. there are 9 players he is never getting past including Pujols is 2nd all time. Article is on thebaseballpage.com

    There is no question Pujols is a better player at 28 then Manny was. If you add overall game into Manny is definatly in top 10 but not the best. OPS+ for there career Manny 155 - Pujol's 170 that is a huge difference. Plus Pujols is GG firstbaseman.

    As for everything else, the Red Sox are the second best franchise in this decade winning percentage wise and only team with two WS titles which with 80% of decade played makes them team of decade right now. What else can you say?

    Every GM makes bad moves, in the end we want the RS to win, they have won more playoff games this decade then any other team, more titles and the second most regular seasons games by a wisker.

    The only terrible moves IMO are the
    Bard/Meridith trade and Arroyo for Pena trade. Schilling for 08, what can you do the guy delivered to WS titles.

    Gabbard is a nothing pitcher now, they needed Gagne, he failed as a player but he made a move that was needed.

    Lugo, Drew you can debate but you can not debate a WS Title and 7 Game ALSC loss.

    I am not going into the Manny/Santana we will know down the road if those moves should of been made or not.

    The results are there and the RS are the model, who would of ever thought that?

    As for last great FA signing how about Dice K? Okie? Youk Long Term, Pedroia long term, Beckett to cheap extension, re sign Lowell, although there are questions with health they got Smoltz, Penny, Siato and Baldelli.

    Colon and Byrd ended up being key players in 2008.

    They drafted in last 3 years:
    Lowrie
    Masterson
    Bard
    Anderson
    Ellsbury
    Bucholtz[/Quote]

    Maybe being #1 in playoff HRs and #2 in playoff RBIs and having 2 rings have something to do with the upgrade. Yeah, you can argue he has lots of ABs in the playoffs compared to others, but he helped his teams get there. He's a clutch hitter and is 2nd only to Gerhig in career Grand Slams, with way less ABs.

    Even if he's not #1, he is justly rated up high and losing someone as great as him has got to make a difference. Nothing against Bay, I hope he hits .300 40 130 this year and helps us forget Manny.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]"Why is not loving Theo mean you can't be a true Redsox fan"?

    "We were poised for a dynasty and Theo put it all at risk."


    BECAUSE IT"S ALL YOU EVER TALK ABOUT AND RESPOND TO!!

    Do you have any memories prior to '04?
    Do you go to any games? Post season? Spring training?
    Do you have any historical highlights in that head of yours? Are you old enough to remember '67, '75. '86 to name a few?

    You have a serious fixation with Theo & the post D.D. era (our most successful era ever) that makes one wonder just who the hell you do root for.

    The would'a, could'a, should'a dynasty you speak of is a pipe dream and do you really think if we had Pedro, Damon, Nixon, Nomar and Arroyo that we would have won it all in '07 and come oh' so close to the WS in '08??

    I think not son...you have to expand your horizons and stop dwelling on the past, we have a damn good team here and it sounds as if you don't realize it.
    [/Quote]

    You don't have a monopoly on Redsox fandom. Being a blind Theo lover does not mean you love the Sox more than me or anyone else. It makes you pathetic.

    Maybe you have been a fan longer than me. I'm sorry if I lived in Milwaukee in '67 at age 8 and was a Brewer fan then. I switched to the Sox in 1972 when I moved to Maine and the Sox got my favorite player, Tommy Harper. I kept score of every game by radio and suffered the big losses of '75 and '86. I remember all Sox fans spent hours upon hours slamming Sox GMs and managers. Nobody called us unloyal then. Now after 2 rings, suddenly criticism is forbidden. After graduating form the U. of Notre Dame in '81, I have watched 98-99% of all Sox games on TV, not counting the hundreds I have gone to. I have seen 12 games at other parks. None of this makes me a better or worse fan than you. I give credit to Dan D, Lucchino and Theo for the wins. I don't only dwell on the past. You must not read all my threads, because I have many times praised the Sox, good moves by Theo and hopes for this year.

    I happen to think Theo's early moves were way better than his most recent ones. Name his last great trade. Name his last great FA signing? (Dice-k?) I think the 2004 and 2007 teams were better than we are now. I don't think it's a radical or anti-Redsoz position to have. I'm getting tired of holier-than-thou "Redsox fans" like you who claim they are the real or true Redsox fans, because you only say good things about Theo and the Sox, even if you know somethings have gotten worse.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    Bay is not special, Manny was, but Manny is also at the end of his career at age 37, he is not a 28 year old bull with 4 - 6 years of greatness infront of him. I will never understand what he was thinking and frankly I know longer care. Manny's actions made me and everyone else lose every ounce of respect for him I once had which was enourmous. I dont think team's game plan around Bay like they did Manny at one time.

    He will never have a run like he did last summer, he will decline into what he was the last 3 years here which is still a very good player. 290 - 28 95 - 100 for 2 more years probably. Then 280 20 - 75 for a year maybe two then done. POST PED's there is no evidence of a 37 year old player having great season's it typically does not happen.

    His post season stats are made up because of three rounds, lots of extra games. He has performed great in post season at times, but it does not change the fact that there are 10 other right handed batters who are better. Pujol's is a superior player.



     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    Moon ~

    Maybe it is ownership not Theo on these big money deals. Have you thought about that?

    Santana, that was $125 Million maybe Henry didnt want that

    Tex, they were 4th in bidding

    Manny, maybe ownership said no extension

    GM's dont make these choices owners do.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Dabro. Show Dabro's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    I find it odd that people insist on assessing Theo based on one element in his job description -- deals, trades, free agent signings.

    What is truly odd about this is that "deals" are not even the main or core element of the Red Sox baseball strategy. It is one prong in an overall strategy that includes international scouting, drafting young talent, player development, etc. The core of what Theo is trying to do is sign, attract, retain and stockpile young talent at any level of the organization. He gets an A+ for this.

    How many of you would have thought that 2 rookie young / pitchers would pitch no hitters in the last few years?

    In addition as the head of baseball operations, Theo is responsible for:

    1) Creating a winning culture in the organization, making success and Red Sox interchangeable words.

    2) Putting a supporting team of young executives in place to implement the strategy. Everyone agrees his executive team is strong. Many of them are former peers and yet they continue to work for him, quite happily it seems.

    3) Hiring and retention of a manager who has led the team to two world series. You almost never hear anything negative from the players or the organization about Terry.

    4) Hiring and retaining coaching staff -- Farell is one of the keys to our success.

    5) Management and staffing of Strength, condiitioning and medical teams.

    To me Theo gets an A or A- on an ongoing basis for all of the above.

    He is extremely well regarded by the players, manager and coaches.

    Unless you have worked for and consulted with large, complex organizations I just dont think you could ever understand how important and how difficult it is to be the best at so many things.

    Having said all that, I would still probably give him a A- or B+ just on trades and signings, so that is a strength as well. I can only think of 2 or 3 deals over the past 6 years that I objected to at the time they were made (Lugo). True, some deals that I liked at the time have not worked out, but there were powerful arguements to be made for them at the time. Name a GM in baseball who does not have a list of a half dozen deals that have not worked out. You know what -- you can't.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]
    Bay is not special, Manny was, but Manny is also at the end of his career at age 37, he is not a 28 year old bull with 4 - 6 years of greatness infront of him. I will never understand what he was thinking and frankly I know longer care. Manny's actions made me and everyone else lose every ounce of respect for him I once had which was enourmous. I dont think team's game plan around Bay like they did Manny at one time.

    He will never have a run like he did last summer, he will decline into what he was the last 3 years here which is still a very good player. 290 - 28 95 - 100 for 2 more years probably. Then 280 20 - 75 for a year maybe two then done. POST PED's there is no evidence of a 37 year old player having great season's it typically does not happen.

    His post season stats are made up because of three rounds, lots of extra games. He has performed great in post season at times, but it does not change the fact that there are 10 other right handed batters who are better. Pujol's is a superior player.



    [/Quote]

    Manny had a great year last year, has a great 5yr, 10 yr or career record to prove he is top 2,3 or 5, not 11th or worse. Most players at 37 don't have a run like he did last year, so I don't think you can write his future career off. If you are projecting 2009 stats then perhaps there is an argument that he is near 10th. There are many other hitters who have been in the league at the same time as Manny, with the 3 tier playoffs and extra ABs, but Manny has gotten his teams there, he has produced once there especially once joining the Sox. His antics last year were horrible, but he was and still is the #1, 2 or 3 hitter in the league. In this market, with Dunn signing for $10M and Abreau for $5M, giving Manny a 25% raise (LA's offer) after all the antics shows at least one GM rates him right up there also.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    Frankly, I am watching them and to me it seems there plan is to get guys year 1 - 7/8 and by year 7/8 have a replacement.

    In most case's they want players in prime and gone by age 33-35, not all case's but most.

    It is not really a bad stratagey as long as they can continue to turn out players.

    2007 Team, you said it was stronger? How exactly?

    Dice K unknown, Beckett came off terrible 2006, Schilling replaced with Lester, Wake is Wake.

    Pap came into season off injury as unknown, Okie was thought to be mop up man.

    Youk, Pedroia were considered average/below average players. Youks 06 was nothing special.

    Crisp came off horrible 2006, Lowell was solid nothing special in 2006, Tek came off injured 2006.

    Manny was hurt last 6 weeks of 2006 and missed 6 weeks in 2007.

    Drew and Lugo were what they were.

    Were exactly on Feb 14 2007 can you say the team was stronger then this group?

    This group is better in CF, 2B, 1B, no less then equal anywhere else, deeper with Baldelli. Lowrie, Bard and Kotsay.

    Pitching wise, Dice K is coming off 18-3, Lester is a #1, Beckett is same, Pap is coming off healthy 2008, they have more depth in bullpen and 2 established #4 and several top rookie prospects, Masterson, Bard, Buchholtz and Bowden.

    Clearly the 2009 RS are at worst equal to 2007 at this point.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]Moon ~

    Maybe it is ownership not Theo on these big money deals. Have you thought about that?

    Santana, that was $125 Million maybe Henry didnt want that

    Tex, they were 4th in bidding

    Manny, maybe ownership said no extension

    GM's dont make these choices owners do.[/Quote]

    I have discussed this point often with you.

    I'm not all about spending. I was against paying Tex even what the Sox offered.

    I showed how they could have paid for Santana without greatly effecting the budget. (not to mention if they could pay Tex, then they could pay Santana instead).

    I know the FO is a big part of all deals, especially the big $$ deals. I say Theo, because I feel he is the one who has the most influence on trades and signings. (I think the Santana deal was close to happening, so the ownership was prepared to sign him). We have argued the Santana non-trade long enough and we disagree on even who was being offered. Let's not rehash that.

    Why not respond to my major point. The early Theo and FO trades and FA signings were better than the recent ones. Name the last great trade and FA signing? List the best moves since 2003 and you'll see most are earlier not later.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    As a righthanded hitter Manny has a career OPS+ of 155

    Dimaggio 155
    Aaron 155
    Mays 156
    Thomas 156
    Allen 156
    Greenberg 158
    McGwire 162
    Foxx 163
    Pujols 170
    Hornsby 175

    The numbers say he is below these players, hard to argue the numbers. If you include lefties forget it, he is 25th all time. Which is great but not the best. I personally would put Manny about 7th or 8th as a right handed hitter.

    Keep in Mind A Rod will pass him, A Rods 147 OPS+ will go up and Manny's 155 will go down. No matter what Manny will not out homer Aaron, Mays, A Rod and Pujols should and will pass him. IMO.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]I find it odd that people insist on assessing Theo based on one element in his job description -- deals, trades, free agent signings.

    What is truly odd about this is that "deals" are not even the main or core element of the Red Sox baseball strategy. It is one prong in an overall strategy that includes international scouting, drafting young talent, player development, etc. The core of what Theo is trying to do is sign, attract, retain and stockpile young talent at any level of the organization. He gets an A+ for this.

    How many of you would have thought that 2 rookie young / pitchers would pitch no hitters in the last few years?

    In addition as the head of baseball operations, Theo is responsible for:

    1) Creating a winning culture in the organization, making success and Red Sox interchangeable words.

    2) Putting a supporting team of young executives in place to implement the strategy. Everyone agrees his executive team is strong. Many of them are former peers and yet they continue to work for him, quite happily it seems.

    3) Hiring and retention of a manager who has led the team to two world series. You almost never hear anything negative from the players or the organization about Terry.

    4) Hiring and retaining coaching staff -- Farell is one of the keys to our success.

    5) Management and staffing of Strength, condiitioning and medical teams.

    To me Theo gets an A or A- on an ongoing basis for all of the above.

    He is extremely well regarded by the players, manager and coaches.

    Unless you have worked for and consulted with large, complex organizations I just dont think you could ever understand how important and how difficult it is to be the best at so many things.

    Having said all that, I would still probably give him a A- or B+ just on trades and signings, so that is a strength as well. I can only think of 2 or 3 deals over the past 6 years that I objected to at the time they were made (Lugo). True, some deals that I liked at the time have not worked out, but there were powerful arguements to be made for them at the time. Name a GM in baseball who does not have a list of a half dozen deals that have not worked out. You know what -- you can't.
    [/Quote]

    Nobody, but law, debates Theo and the FO excellent work on rebuilding the farm from bottom to near top. It is a big part of judging a team and management. However, I disagree on the A- or B+ rating for trades and signings, especially lately. A to A+ for the farm, B to B- for trades, and C to C- for FA signings. My over all B to B+. Top 5 in the league, but on the verge of slipping.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]As a righthanded hitter Manny has a career OPS+ of 155

    Dimaggio 155
    Aaron 155
    Mays 156
    Thomas 156
    Allen 156
    Greenberg 158
    McGwire 162
    Foxx 163
    Pujols 170
    Hornsby 175

    The numbers say he is below these players, hard to argue the numbers. If you include lefties forget it, he is 25th all time. Which is great but not the best. I personally would put Manny about 7th or 8th as a right handed hitter.

    Keep in Mind A Rod will pass him, A Rods 147 OPS+ will go up and Manny's 155 will go down. No matter what Manny will not out homer Aaron, Mays, A Rod and Pujols should and will pass him. IMO.[/Quote]

    OPS+ is a great stat, but is not the sole stat to judge by.
    Clutch hitting, playoff stats, rings, and non steroid ties (so far) move him up on my list.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    You dont understand the direction the Red Sox are going in. It is ownership not Theo on moves like Santana anyway.

    Moves since that I view as good 2004:

    Drafties:
    Pedroia ROY, MVP, GG, SS
    Ellsbury
    Masterson
    Buchholtz
    Lowrie

    cant talk about non mlb players

    Developed:
    Lester
    Papelbon
    MDC

    Traded for
    Beckett #2 Cy Young, Playoff MVP
    Lowell #5 MVP, WS MVP
    Crisp
    Bard
    Bay

    Signed FA
    Dice K
    Okie
    Drew
    Lugo

    RESIGNED TO DEALS SINCE 2004, you cant discount this:
    Ortiz
    Beckett
    Lowell
    Youk
    Pedroia


    This team was basically set since 2007 off season with the majority of players signed through 2010.

    They are set through next season by inlarge.

    The only three moves I wish they had back OC, signed from 2005 through 2008

    Damon for 4 years, Keep Arroyo and certainly figure out Manny so he retires here.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    Moon how about him being the only player on list NOT to win a MVP. Plus his clutch stats are pretty average, they are not as good as the players above him. I can prove it. I also disagree on OPS+, it is the best stat to view a player and the only way to compare them for generation to generation.



    Secondly, you say top 5 GM but who is better? Who has built a farm, won two WS, they have averaged 95 wins since 2004 that is number 1 in BB. It is really undeniable.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]As a righthanded hitter Manny has a career OPS+ of 155

    Dimaggio 155
    Aaron 155
    Mays 156
    Thomas 156
    Allen 156
    Greenberg 158
    McGwire 162
    Foxx 163
    Pujols 170
    Hornsby 175

    The numbers say he is below these players, hard to argue the numbers. If you include lefties forget it, he is 25th all time. Which is great but not the best. I personally would put Manny about 7th or 8th as a right handed hitter.

    Keep in Mind A Rod will pass him, A Rods 147 OPS+ will go up and Manny's 155 will go down. No matter what Manny will not out homer Aaron, Mays, A Rod and Pujols should and will pass him. IMO.[/Quote]

    Even if he is 7th or 8th, he's ahead of a lot of super super hitters. Unlike you, I don't think he is done. He has always had a super work-out routine and his calm laid-back approach to hitting will help him hit into his early 40's. Put him in a hitter's park and he may be near the top of many alltime hitting lists.

    I can see putting Hornsby, Foxx and Pujols (TBD) ahead of Manny. I throw McGwire out on his butt. Greenberg was awesome and missing 3 yrs for the military shouldnt keep him down. So, Manny is 3-5 in my book.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from tph2004. Show tph2004's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    So your putting Manny above Mays, Dimaggio and Aaron?

    Manny is the only player in top 11 OPS+ who never won a MVP.

    They all have same amount of rings and such it is pretty equal.

    Joe D, for example had he not lost 4 years to the war would be no worse then 3rd - 4th on list.

    This is just the hitting aspect, only Frank Thomas has worse defensive ability. Manny is by far the worst defensive player in top 11.

    As for McGwire, do you have legal proof he did anything? No. Andro was not Illegal in 1998. Secondly he had no less then 4 seasons superior to Manny's best. Had he not had foot issues he would have been near top in HR's and RBI. His 162 OPS+ Surprised me too, but he was clearly better when you look at the numbers.

    There are a ton of guys at 154 - 147 that could equal Manny or improve over him. At age 37 you cant believe Manny will be only player to improve post Ped's in MLB history.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Theo Makes The Right Decisions on most players

    [Quote]Moon how about him being the only player on list NOT to win a MVP. Plus his clutch stats are pretty average, they are not as good as the players above him. I can prove it. I also disagree on OPS+, it is the best stat to view a player and the only way to compare them for generation to generation.



    Secondly, you say top 5 GM but who is better? Who has built a farm, won two WS, they have averaged 95 wins since 2004 that is number 1 in BB. It is really undeniable.[/Quote]

    Aren't you always the one arguing money and budget on all the outrageous trades people offer? On Santana? On how FO can limit what a GM does?

    Why not give credit to GMs with highly restrictive budgets( MN, FLA, OAK and TB) or GMs who took teams from last or near last to first (DET or NYM) and the most recent WS winner (PHI) or most rings (NYY).

    By the way , I said top 5, not #5. Depending on the criteria used, he's near the top.

    If I could have any GM, I'd pick Beane, Dombrowski and Larry Beinfest (Maybe even Omar Minaya) over Theo, so I guess I think Theo is #4. It's hard to judge apples to oranges and you never know if a small market GM could do wonders in a big market. (Dan D. proved that always doesn't work)

    I have no big argument over people saying Theo is number one, just that many think evey move he makes if great and some think anyone who criticizes specific moves by him, hates him and can't be a real Redsox fans, that irritates me more than a few Theo moves.

    I still don't see many grat recent moves on your list, other than extending Youk and Pedroia, but I think any GM with the money available would have done that. The Lugo, Drew signings are not great. Beckett and Ortiz re-signings are still to be determined. Okie looked great, but could now is also a TBD. The trades you mentioned listed the players we got, I like the players we had better, with the possible exception of Han Ram & Sanchez for Beckett & Lowell, which was actually made during Theo's short departure. I loved the Nomar trade, but since then I haven't seen a great trade by Theo.
     

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