1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Before you start calling for Wake to retire.
    Before you blame Theo for "wasting" 5 Mil.
    Before you start thinking up arguments on
    why like to use stats to bash players, but
    ignore the same stats when they prove you
    wrong.
    Just look at these numbers and see that 5 Mil
    a year, is a steal.
    I'm not saying Wake is great, but he certainly
    doesn't deserve all the blog bashing here.

    2008 WHIP
    1. Halladay (1.05)
    2. C. Lee
    3. E. Santana
    4. J. Shields
    5. WAKE (1.18)
    (7. Beckett, 17. Lester, 21. Matsusaka)

    Opp OB%
    7. Beckett (.300)
    8. WAKE (.302)
    22. Lester
    23. Matsusaka

    Opp SLG %
    1. Matsuzaka (.324)
    2. Halladay
    3. C. Lee
    4. J. Lester
    5. E.Santana
    12. WAKE (.387)
    17. Beckett

    ERA
    21. Beckett
    23. Burnett
    24. WAKE
    29. Pettitte
    35. J. Garland

    Not bad for 4/5th Starter and 5 Million.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from odysseus91. Show odysseus91's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    i agree with you totally. Wake could have easily won at least 20 games for the last few seasons if he had run support. But i must say that no matter how much we give stats that show how good Wake is fans will still be annoyed with him. I have no idea why but we won't be changing their minds.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from billsrul. Show billsrul's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Good post. Just because a dude is old is no reason to hate him, especially when he's shown that he's still good. Granted, his 2007 was probably a little lucky. In reality hes likely to put up an ERA near 4.5 and a whip nearer to 1.3 or so... but those are still league average numbers, really good for a 5th starter....
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Wake has his best WHIP since 2002 and better than any other SOX starter, yes a good time to retire....NOT!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Great stats! You need innings eaters like Wake to make it through the season!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from takavl. Show takavl's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    What I find EXTREMELY interesting is that the anti-Wakes whine and moan like no tomorrow when Wake has a bad game (or gets no run supt.)...but when Wake makes opposing batters look like whirling dervishes we hear crickets...

    The same people, the anti-Wakes, are also the ones that don't complain ONE ITTY BITTY BIT when one of the 'hot shots' like Josh, etc have a bad game...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Anyone with any baseball knowledge and common sense can see Wake's value and importance to this team. Is he the guy you want in your postseason rotation? Obviously not. But you have to get there too, and for the regular season 10 wins, a 4-something ERA, and 180 innings from a back-of-the-rotation pitcher for $4 million a year is gold. Picking up his option was a no-brainer.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from stomackit10452. Show stomackit10452's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    I'm one of the Wakefield bashers in this board. I don't like him as a pitcher, period. The stats you have shown, are very impressing but Wakefield is just not a good pitcher. Be honest. Are you really going to tell me that he doesn't annoy the hell out of you when he goes out and pitches a great game going 8 innings and giving up 1 run and later gets bombed in Texas. I know he's a bargain at that price. But personally I don't like to see him pitch. I rather see guys who can dial it up there and his inconsistency is something I just can't deal with. I think he's not a bad pitcher to have on your team but he and Francona is a bad combination. We all know he can't pitch in the playoffs but if he's healthy come playoff time, if the Sox make the playoff, Francona will stubbornly give him the ball again. I'm tired of that.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Honestly, he doesn't annoy me at all. All pitchers get bombed at times, it just looks worse because he floats the ball up there. I think some of his contributions go unoticed. He gets batters off-stride, messes up hitters in a hot streak, and helps the next pitchers who are throwing smoke.
    Agreed, I don't want him starting a crucial playoff game, but he is team player, and more consistant than most 5th starters. Compare apples to apples. He should not be compared to other top starters, but his stats last year were incredible and do compare to them nicely, that is why I find it baffling that I see more calls for him to retire this year, than ever before.
    I also think Francona could handle him better. It is clear somedays that he doesn't have it, he should be yanked early on those days. He is not like some other pitchers who start off shaky and can regain form and pitch well for a few more innings. When he is bad, he usually doesn't improve. Conversely, when he is good, he usually stays good late into the game. At least that part of him is consistent and a perceptive manager doesn't need to guess about leaving him in too long.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    The reason why Wakefield is disliked by so many of the people who are ignorant is because they fail to see the big picture. ( No not big pitcher!)

    When Wakefield ( or any knuckleballer ) is bad he is really bad. These few awful outings really raise hell with his overall stats.

    On days when he is good , he is often unhittable , but sadly when his knuckler is working great , he will walk more and throw more wildpitchs and passed balls.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    In 2008, he also had 10 straight starts where he allowed less hits than IPs, but went 3-4 during that stretch. He could easily have been 14-7 rather than 10-11, then we wouldn't be hearing all this bashing. A 3.10 ERA at home is nice also.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    [Quote]In 2008, he also had 10 straight starts where he allowed less hits than IPs, but went 3-4 during that stretch. He could easily have been 14-7 rather than 10-11, then we wouldn't be hearing all this bashing. A 3.10 ERA at home is nice also.[/Quote]

    Great point. The bashers only remember when Wake is bad. The good gets forgotten. As long as he eats innings and does his part to protect the bullpen, a .500 record is fine with me.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chilliwings. Show Chilliwings's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Stomack - "The stats you have shown, are very impressing but Wakefield is just not a good pitcher." How do you work that one out?

    Of course he is a good pitcher, the best nbr 5 starter in baseball. You just don't like his style (which is your right) which you admit, to be fair. I also agree he shouldn't pitch in the playoffs.....but only because he is too unpredictable on any given day.

    Over the course of the regular season he has been one of the most consistent starters in baseball for the past 6 seasons. Consider:

    Starts: 33, 30, 33, 23, 31, 30
    ERA+: 114, 100, 109, 103, 100, 112
    WHIP: 1.31, 1.38, 1.23, 1.33, 1.35, 1.18

    So for a paltry 4 million dollars, the Sox get a predicable, high performing 5th starter. The only downside is that on a game day basis it's impossible to predict how he will perform....but isn't that true of most starters?




     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from silversteinsox. Show silversteinsox's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    I haven't figured out what percentage of the "bashers" on this forum are true Red Sox fans, Red Sox fan pretenders, Yankee fans, or plain trolls out to annoy. So it is impossible to determinr what degree of bashing is attributable to sincere Red Sox fans. Anyway - carry on, sorry to interupt you.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    It would be nice if Wake could excel as a middle reliever, between pitchers who throw hard. That would really throw hitters off stride. However, bringing him in with men on base (high WP and PB count) , makes the idea hard to work. If everyone's healthy, I'm not sure he will crack the 5 man rotation, unless they move Smoltz back to relief. Smoltz may start his comeback as a long reliever and by the end of July, the Sox should know what to do. I could see them trading Penny or Smoltz and some youth for a missing piece at that time.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2005-. Show law2005-'s posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    [Quote]
    I'm one of the Wakefield bashers in this board. I don't like him as a pitcher, period. The stats you have shown, are very impressing but Wakefield is just not a good pitcher. Be honest. Are you really going to tell me that he doesn't annoy the hell out of you when he goes out and pitches a great game going 8 innings and giving up 1 run and later gets bombed in Texas. I know he's a bargain at that price. But personally I don't like to see him pitch. I rather see guys who can dial it up there and his inconsistency is something I just can't deal with. I think he's not a bad pitcher to have on your team but he and Francona is a bad combination. We all know he can't pitch in the playoffs but if he's healthy come playoff time, if the Sox make the playoff, Francona will stubbornly give him the ball again. I'm tired of that.
    [/Quote]

    I believe its because these are people who go to Fenway to get autographs and talk about the good ol' days when Wake was relevant. AL batters salivate (especially in the postseason) at the chance to face Tim Wakefield. We also know that Francona's loyalty runs very deep and he will hand Wakefield the ball should the Sox make the postseason and Wake will get lit up like a Christmas tree. We can't stand to see that happen over and over again and we're the 'fake' Red Sox fans because we want to see top pitchers and Red Sox wins...while the 'true' Red Sox fans are fine with watching the Sox lose, as long as Wakey gets his turn.

    This isnt' little league where everybody gets to play no matter how much they stink.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Wake is not a #1, but I'd rather see him pitch on the 5th day than anybody elses 5th man. Yeah, he gets lit up a few times and will again next year, but look at his IP and record and other stats, then look at other teams. He'd be a 2-4 starter (maybe even 2-3) on more than half the teams in the league. Get real, no team has a Lester or Matsusaka as a 5th man, be happy with Wake and stop the bashing.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from oscars. Show oscars's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    I agree Wake does the business in the regular season.
    BUT
    Franconas contract should immediatley be amended as follows:
    Under no circumstances whatsoever, do you start Wake ever again in the postseason"!!!
    Given the moves Theo has made this offseason, there seems clear intent that Wake will not start a game in the postseason
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Without injuries, no 5th starter should ever start a playoff game anyway.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigpanther98. Show bigpanther98's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    Here is some further information to consider. Statistically, the following pitchers are most like Wakefield over their careers:

    Rick Sutcliffe (931)
    Dave Stewart (916)
    Camilo Pascual (914)
    Mark Langston (904)
    Fernando Valenzuela (901)
    John Burkett (901)
    Mike Moore (900)
    Frank Viola (900)
    Mike Flanagan (898)
    Rube Walberg (895)

    The pitcher Wakefield is most like statistically at age 41 is:
    Jamie Moyer (892) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 C

    Please refer to the following link for an explanation of these scores and comparison - http://www.baseball-reference.com/about/similarity.shtml

    Now, I look at this list, and it convinces me that Wakefield, even still, is a solid pitcher, and at such a cheap price, he is a bargain, a quality #5. Heck, isn't Jamie Moyer making more than Wake at this point, and they are virtually identical.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from law2005-. Show law2005-'s posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    [Quote]This what I hear from the Wakefield haters who have had the nerve to post on here in the light of his stats and career: I don't like Wakefield....just 'cause. Yea, that's some real baseball knowledge and logic there.[/Quote]

    I don't even need to go that far. Watching Wakefield flopping around on his stomach in the infield during a CRUCIAL postseason game and getting lit up like a Christmas tree in those big games, along with him being closer to retirement age than to being 21 are more than enough reason for me to conclude that its time for Wakefield to go. There are Red Sox players ready to take Wakefield's roster spot that weren't even BORN when Wake broke into the major leagues. What's next? Give Johnny Pesky a glove and push that guy out there against the Yankees? Nonsense.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimdavis. Show jimdavis's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    [Quote]

    I don't even need to go that far. Watching Wakefield flopping around on his stomach in the infield during a CRUCIAL postseason game and getting lit up like a Christmas tree in those big games, along with him being closer to retirement age than to being 21 are more than enough reason for me to conclude that its time for Wakefield to go. There are Red Sox players ready to take Wakefield's roster spot that weren't even BORN when Wake broke into the major leagues. What's next? Give Johnny Pesky a glove and push that guy out there against the Yankees? Nonsense.[/Quote]

    Wake ate innings and pitched well for the most part. Using Johnny Pesky to make your point is apples and oranges. Could Johnny Pesky still get hits off Major League pitching? No. Can Wake still get Major League hitters out? Yes he can. And by the way, Yes We Can!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    The Sox players "ready to take Wakefield's roster spot" can only dream of putting up Wake 2008 numbers, his playoff flop aside. 5th in the league WHIP! Retire? Nah!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    We've been hearing the "Wake should retire" argument for years. He's a VERY valuable member of the pitching staf, the team, and the community. Wake for mayor...after, he's done playing ball, which won't be for a while.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Wake Bashers Wake Up!

    [Quote]

    I don't even need to go that far. Watching Wakefield flopping around on his stomach in the infield during a CRUCIAL postseason game and getting lit up like a Christmas tree in those big games, along with him being closer to retirement age than to being 21 are more than enough reason for me to conclude that its time for Wakefield to go. There are Red Sox players ready to take Wakefield's roster spot that weren't even BORN when Wake broke into the major leagues. What's next? Give Johnny Pesky a glove and push that guy out there against the Yankees? Nonsense.[/Quote]

    Some were still in diapers or nursery school when Manny broke into the majors, but why is age so important for just some players.
     

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