1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobomul. Show bobomul's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Let's say Matt Cassel was a unrestricted FA this offseason. What would you offer him if you were the GM from the Lions, Chiefs, 49ers?

    Only 1 season of playing time in the NFL and college. Effective out of the shotgun (88% of the passes in hte last 6 games came out of the shotgun for a reason) for the Patriots but struggled when under center. Had very effective WR weapons as his recievers led the league in yards after catch.

    How about 3 years and $24m or 4 yrs and $33m with half of that up front? Do you go 5 years and $50m for a player who you're not positive will succeed in your system?

    It's going to take something close to that to get Cassel signed by anyone trading for him. He's gauranteed $14.65m for 1 year with free agency to follow. So $24m over 3yrs works out to $14.65 for 1yr (current deal) and only $9.35m over the following 2 with little additional up front $.

    Since Matt can always reject any long-term deal and stick with the $14.6m in 2009 and try his luck again in 2010 for a better long-term deal with addition up front money, any team trading for Matt will probably have to have at least $20-$25 in garauntees.

    Now your looking like a deal like Tony Romo or Marc Bulger: 6 years and about $65m with about $25m up front/gauranteed. David Garrard signed a similar extention last year. The difference with Matt C is that those 3 QBs had pro-bowl type seasons WITH THE SAME TEAM SIGNING THEM. Those QBs proved they could excell in the system of the team paying the big money.

    Some GMs might look back and conclude it's still not worth it since both the Garrard and Bulger deals look excessive in hindsight. We don't know how Cassel will perform wherever he winds up.

    Bottom line is that anyone signing Cassel will be paying a HUGE price to have him on the team - and I'm not even talking about the draft choice compensation.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Quarterbacks have to come from somewhere. GM's who believe their teams might be on the cusp of greatness are only going so far with the Jeff Garcia's and Gus Frerotte's of the world. What is a quality quarterback ( as opposed to a shot-in-the-dark draft pick ) worth? How much is Super Bowl contention worth? How much are fans who will snap up your product even in a horrid economy worth?

    What the market will bear, baby.

    What the market will bear.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Harleyroadking111. Show Harleyroadking111's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    MC was in the the shotgun 88% of time because the right side of the line couldn't block 90% of the time.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Isnt there already like 5 threads about this? I am so sick of talking about it, we all have the same things to say, the same ideas the same 4 or 5 teams we think might take him. No one is saying anything new so why do we need another thread about cassel and where he might end up? seriously guys i am all about trading him but after a while this subject became a dead horse and someof you are beating the crap out of this dead horse.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Grogan77. Show Grogan77's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Top NFL QB's are a rare commodity and a must for any teams success. Cassel had a great season and one season doesn't make him one of the best, but too many teams have been burned with taking QB's high in the draft.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobomul. Show bobomul's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    MVP,

    I think other discussions focused on the wrong issue: what does Matt C's worth in terms of draft choices.

    The big risk to the team aquiring Cassel is not the 2nd round choice (or whatever it is) given up, it's the CONTRACT it will take.

    $25-$28m up front and $60-$65m over the full deal can kill a team if Cassel doesn't work out for them. I think there's a good chance whoever gets Cassel could be kicking themselves a year from now by being stuck with the huge deal they gave Matt for an avererage QB. See Jacksonville and St Louis with Garrard and Bulger.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    How very astute of you, brother Leon.

    That's exactly what Cassel is worth.

    His weight in gold.

    Very astute.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bunchofpixels. Show bunchofpixels's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    I am thinking teams might offer something similar to what the Texans gave Matt Schaub. I think it was 6 years 48 mill. I cant see him getting more than $15 mill guaranteed.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from bubthegrub2. Show bubthegrub2's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    The key for any team trading for him is to build an offense around his strengths. Sure, a team would have to pay a high price to sign him, but they'd be doing it because they need a QB. So they would have to be able to adapt to him, same as if they drafted a rookie. As the draft class is very weak at QB this season this gives Matt more leverage. Whatever he gets will likely be the same or less than a first round QB, and at least Matt has shown the ability to handle the pros. Choose someone like Ryan Leaf in the draft and it sets you back for years. That's why the most likely landing spots are teams like the Vikings, 49ers, and Bucs. A decent QB is the main piece they are lacking to be contenders. A rookie QB is a project that is better suited for rebuilding teams like the Chiefs or Lions. And we've seen how so many GMs are willing to overpay for ex-Patriots. And if given the chance to start for a contending team may make Cassel not so greedy. Even if only $15 million was guaranteed that is more than the franchise number. We'll see how it goes. And a lot of these GMs who are doling out these contracts are trying to preserve their jobs. If Cassel turns out to be a bust most likely those guys won't be around to worry about the cap implications a few years down the road.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    In gold.


    Ahhhhhh . . . .


    Life is good.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobomul. Show bobomul's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    BunchOfPs,

    "I cant see him getting more than $15 mill guaranteed. " Realy?

    Matt Cassel ALREADY has $14.65m guaranteed. For 1 year - then he becomes a FA and can do it again.

    6 yrs for $48m. Think of your contract as 2 separate ones: The $14.65 Matt gets this year and a second contract for 5 yrs and $33m with $0 money guaranteed. Bad deal for Matt. No way he signs it since even if Cassel has a below average year in a 1yr deal, he'll get something the up front for his next contract.

    If a team wants to extend out the $14.65m/ 1yr Franchise Tag deal, it really will take at least $21-23m guaranteed to do it. Most likely over 5-6 years. Unless the deal is fully front loaded, that's about $10m/year for the life of it.

    Now we're talking about some F*CKING $$$$!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from TexasPat3. Show TexasPat3's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    [Quote]MVP,

    I think other discussions focused on the wrong issue: what does Matt C's worth in terms of draft choices.

    The big risk to the team aquiring Cassel is not the 2nd round choice (or whatever it is) given up, it's the CONTRACT it will take.

    $25-$28m up front and $60-$65m over the full deal can kill a team if Cassel doesn't work out for them. I think there's a good chance whoever gets Cassel could be kicking themselves a year from now by being stuck with the huge deal they gave Matt for an avererage QB. See Jacksonville and St Louis with Garrard and Bulger.[/Quote]

    That was discussed at some length in the original Cassel thread (read the last couple of pages of posts).

    I agree that money...not compensation, is the main problem with trading Matt. He already is guaranteed $14.6mil. for this season alone. But, it will cost the Lions over $30mil. in guaranteed money if they select QB Matt Stafford with the top overall pick. Thats' far too much money to spend on a guy whose been somewhat inconsistent in college, is not ready to play immediately (hes'a junior eligible), and has no pro experience.

    Compare and contrast that with Matt Cassel's resume. If I had to shell out $30mil. guaranteed to either Stafford or Cassel, I'd pick Cassel.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MVPkilla. Show MVPkilla's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    I am just tired of talking about the Cassel trade thats all i mean how many different ways can we all agree?

    and PMike sorry but people have been swinging from that CB in Oaklands nut sack all year long saying how we NEED to go out and sign him or trade for him and its been crazy for teh get go. We were never going to get that guy but yet we still had to read day in and day out how we NEEDED to sign him and it got old for me, yea he was good but he was not ever going to come to NE and get the money he wanted so it was never going to happen. And either way I am not wrong this subject has been beaten to death.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairiemike. Show prairiemike's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    If you want "beaten to death" you should go in the Red Sox forum and read all about what a douchebag Manny is (or isn't -- depending on where you stand). I still say if the Pats get some guys who can pressure the quarterback the secondary situation will solve itself. There was never any reason to spend big money on a cornerback -- any cornerback. Personally, I like all the Cassel speculation. It's a nice counterpoint to all the ":What is this guy still doing on the team?" threads we all enjoyed last summer.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobomul. Show bobomul's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    I highly doubt that the Pats are going to get a top 5 pick for Matt Cassel, Killer. So the Lions or Chiefs will really have to pay that sum of money twice: once of Cassel and again whoever they draft at those spots (non QB).

    My real question is what do you think Cassel would generate in the open market if he was an unrestricted free agent? 4yrs and $38m? Seems high to me.

    I doubt anyone would offer up a 1yr $14.6m deal. So whoever gets him may have to overpay to land the One Year Wonder QB.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidwa. Show davidwa's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Bobomul,
    It wont be cheap to sign MC & there is a risk with signing him (although less risk because he's been successful in the NFL. If you were a GM would you rather spend your $ on:
    2008 #3 overall pick Matt Ryan signed a 6-year $72 million deal that included $34.75 in guaranteed monies.
    2007 #1 overall pick JaMarcus Russell was inked to a 6 year $61 million deal including $32 million in guarantees.
    2006 #3 pick Vince Young cashed in with a 5-year deal worth $58 million with $25.7 guaranteed.
    2005 #1 overall pick Alex Smith agreed to a $49.5 million deal with $24 million in guarantees

    For every successful example such as Matt Ryan I can name multiple high paid first round draft picks that didn't have productive rookie seasons/careers. MC is more of a proven commodity then a rookie QB from the draft. Your arguement would be better if S Bradford were in this years draft but he isn't.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobomul. Show bobomul's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Davidwa,

    This thread is not a Cassel vs Sanchez/Stafford debate. In reality, it's not an either or decision anyways: Detroit/KC could take a pass on all of them. Haven't thought about that posibility, have ya?

    This thread is simply a question of what do you think Cassel would earn in the open market as an urestricted FA. What do you think he's worth in terms of $$$?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidwa. Show davidwa's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    You stated:

    "Bottom line is that anyone signing Cassel will be paying a HUGE price to have him on the team - and I'm not even talking about the draft choice compensation"

    You stated it will be a Huge price. It cost a lot to have a starting QB in the NFL. I'm not paid to be a GM & crunch #'s for a QB so I wont even begin to try to guess what his contract amount will be, however, my point is that MC has great value compared to other available QB's. When you judge a players value you have to look at the market of other available players. Can you name two QB's from this draft that are more deserving then Matt Cassel or two unrestricted FA QB's that you would rather have than him.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    From what Ihave read there are questions if Cassel signed the tender yet. If he hasn't, then the contract he works out could beworth anything in guarantees. If he has it starts at a larger figure. You aren't allowed to reduce your total guaranteed money in renegotiation.

    Shaub has to be the starting point, but he only had $7 million in guarantees.

    I would say that $18 million might cut it, with a total contract value worth $60 over six. That way if he doesn't work out the team isn't finacnially crippled like they are with top three QB type deal.

    For instance, Ryan received about $35 mill in guarantees over six. That means he is going to hit the cap at about $5.8 a season. If he was a bust that is crippling.

    $18 million is good, because $3 million is steep, but not insane to pay a backup like Matt. And even if he didn't pan out to be a ACE, we alreday know he is the best backup in the league.

    So. I will go out on a limb and say $18/60 in 6.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from davidwa. Show davidwa's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Signing bonuses & guaranteed $ will be of particular interest to GM's RE MC or any player because they can always cut a player otherwise or ask them to re-negotiate for budget purposes. Even though MC's more proven in the NFL then college QB's there will probably be a few college QB's getting more guaranteed $ then MC. Any first round pick or early 2nd round pick that MC brings in a trade could really benefit the team.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobomul. Show bobomul's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Cleric, Why would Cassel agree to that deal?

    Right now he gets $15m up front and unrestricted free agency next year. If he plays well, Cassel can get another $15-$25m up front. If he struggles, he'll get some kind of bonus on his next deal (he won't work for free).

    If he signs your deal, he ties himself up for 6 or so years but gets NO benifit or additional guarantees for doing so. If he plays well, that team has him tied up. If he struggles, they cut him and they aren't on the hook for anything more. Thus, they get to lock him in for long term with no additional money up front.

    Bad deal for Cassel.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Yeah, there are a number of ways to do it. But IIRC, a single shot guaranteed signing bonus accelerates when a player is cut, meaning that if he stinks and is cut or traded all of the $15-18 hits the cap that season. It is likely what happens, but it is actually risky if it isn't worded correctly.

    The way to protect IIRC, is to give the player a non-guaranteed salary and roster bonuses.Or very non guaranteed roster bonuses and a small guaranteed yearly salary.

    But only a desperate player signs that. So a compromise needs to be struck.

    You have to figure some signing bonus is in order. And you have to doubt that any player is going to be canned after one season. So maybe a bonus structure that gives a very small annual salary for the first two seasons, and eats up the bonus in those years, and then a bunch of non-guaranteed dollars at the end.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Because if he struggles no one will touch him, but if the contract is worded correctly he will make much more than a guaranteed $15 million.


    Like I said it is a compromise. Sure he can take the whole pie now, at $14 million and have zero security. Or can force a team to negotiate around that figure, so some or a lot of the non-guaranteed money is essentially forced into his pocket.


    $18 million guaranteed. With annual salaries like $6 million per, and $4.25 million in bonus money against the cap each season, with non-guaranteed salaries of $10 million in the final two seasons for a grand total of $18 million by $6 million. The likelihood that he is cut after one season is very,very small, he would have to be a horror show because the rest of the guaranteed money ($12.75 million) would hit the cap that season, AND the team would have no QB to show for it. In fact, such a structure practically guarantees him a 3yr tryout.


    So even after two seasons of play he has already made himself an extra $12 million, and a grand total of $30 million, which is twice what he would get signing the tender.


    Trust me. No one is going to pay Cassel $14.6 million next season unless NE gets screwed and has to. And Cassel isn't going to get $30 million guaranteed regardless of what he could have with the tag.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    Sure.


    Because the NFLPA rules and NFL rules make really round number very hard to get, we will start with this structure as a base, and work something out kind of close to it.

    5 year.

    $8 million signing bonus.

    $7 million in guaranteed roster bonuses.

    $35 million in unguaranteed money.

    $50 million dollar contract.

    Like Shaub's deal but a little better.

    The average anuall salary is about $10 million.

    The signing bonus IIRC can be spread any way as long as the player is under contract.

    But according to NFL rules the player salary cannot escalate more than 20% a season.

    Salary Structure by Season

    1) $5 million + $3.5 million roster bonus ($8.5 that season) cap [$10.5]
    2) $6 million + $ 2.5 million roster bonus ($8.5 that season) cap [$10.5]
    3) $7.2 million + 1 million roster bonus ($8.2 that season) cap [$10.2]
    4) $ 8.64 million Cap number $10.64 plus amortized bonus.
    5) $10.4 million

    As long as he is under contract the signing bonus is spred out whatever way you like it. So. Lets say about $2 million a season.

    About $37 million in non guaranteed salary. $52 million in total value.

    By the end of year two (the tryout period) the QB has already chewed up $10 million of the $15 million in guarantees, so cutting him to make room isn't out of the question if necessary. But the end of season three, he has finished with $13 million in his bonuses, so if you have seen enough then, it only costs $2 million against the cap to cut him.

    The benefit for the team is they can try the player out for a couple seasons. The benefit for the player is that he is all but guaranteed to make the $11 million in non guaranteed money the first couple seasons, so his "actual" take home, EVEN IF HE IS TERRIBLE, would be a lot closer to $26 million.

    Of this were Cassel, it would make *A LOT* more sense than simply taking the franchise tag. If he has a rocky first season. He is done. Disco. Nada.

    He simply will not recuperate that $11million dollars if he plays poorly.He will be kicked back down to veteran minimum.

    Stop and REALLY think about it.

    Would you want to gamble $11 million dollars on whether you can succeed at QB in one season at KC, DET, or somewhere like that?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from zbellino. Show zbellino's posts

    What Is Matt Ca$$el Worth?

    To see how this works, look at Derek Anderson's contract on Rotoworld.

    Both player and team really came to a compromise and protected themselves.

    It was fair.

    Very similar to my contract, but without the "funny money" years four and five. And after one good season, Cassel's demand could be similar to Anderson's in 2007.

    I adjust upward to abour $10 million per, because I think Eli Manning's contract will cause some escalation becuase now a ton of agents can simply point to stats and say . . a mediocre QB gets that much . . . my client should get this much.
     

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