To ask -- or not -- about guns in a playmate's home
Somehow, when you look at those words in black and white, doesn't it seem like a total no-brainer?
Question: With the number of accidental shootings in the US, how does one go about questioning parents of friends of one child's? After a casual conversation with friends, I became aware of 3 parents who kept guns unlocked with ammunition within the home. I would like to talk to my children, yet not cause anxiety about what to do should a parent's gun be revealed while my children are playing at the home of a friend.
1. How does one ask about weapons kept in the home?
2. Should a parent prohibit play time at homes with guns and weapons?
From: Cat, of Boston
Hi Cat,
You ask a question every parent in America ought to ask before their child heads to someone else's home; 40% of American homes with children in them have guns. While many of them are kept behind lock and key, there is no way of knowing how many of them are not.
A shocking statistic, isn't it? So why do we think it's rude to ask the question: Are there guns in your home?.
It's not rude. Awkward, maybe.
The first time I asked the question (it was when my son had started at a new school and, for the first time, I did not know the parents of his friends) the mom said to me, "I am so glad you asked! I've been waiting for years for someone to ask me." Turned out, the family kept guns for hunting. They were locked away -- she invited me to come to see their storage system -- and the guns were not even in the home at the time; they had been moved to another location. But they could have been there.
I was surprised on two counts: That a family of my son's friends had guns, and that the mother wasn't put off by the question. She was surprised no one else had ever asked it.
The experience prompted me to write a column which answers your question in detail. Briefly, you ask the question of other parents in a non-confrontational way, along with other age-approproate questions of safety: What kind of supervision will there be? Where will the the kids be playing? What videos do your kids watch?
If the person is put off by your question or the answer in any way makes you uncomfortable, simply say, "You know what? How 'bout if they play here this time?" Then you have time to reassess.
Coincidentally, this Sunday, Father's Day, is ASK Day, Asking Saves Kids Campaign. ASK is sponsored by PAX, a nonprofit established in 2000 in partnership with the American Academy of Pediatrics.
I answer a question from a reader every weekday. If you want help with
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"Do you have a gun in the house" is the wrong question. The question should be "If you have firearms in the house, are they secured so the children can't get them?". Beyond that, you cannot child-proof every gun in the world, but you can teach your children what to do if they come across one: "Stop, don't touch, leave the area and tell an adult.."
There are many programs for children at sportsmen's clubs around the state where children, under safe, controlled conditions, can learn gun safety and take away the mystery that causes the curiousity problem in the first place.
Thanks for the reminder, that is a great question. I used to ask when my oldest son (age 11) was younger but given that none of his friends' parents had weapons in the home I just forgot about it. Much to my surprise, last fall the father of a newer friend made a joke in passing about heading down to the basement and pulling out one of his guns. I was too surprised to ask questions I should have about how they were secured, where the ammunition is kept, etc. I did talk to my son about it (he didn't know there were weapons in the house, a good sign) and he isn't friends with this boy anymore but it put the question back on my usual "get to know you" list.
You should also ask the parents if they have a swimming pool, too. Those kill kids when they are unsupervised.
I grew up in a house with guns. They were kept unloaded and separate from the ammunition. At the appropriate age, I also took a gun safety and education course (from the NRA, and the course was excellent) to reinforce the proper handling and care of a firearm. Many of the other families in the area had guns in the house, as well, but the other parents all had the same message to pass on to the kids, and no one ever touched (much less loaded or discharged) a gun without a parent present.
I couldn't agree more. It may be uncomfortable to ask another parent if they have guns in the house before your child goes over to play but considering the alternative scenario, I would rather risk hurting or offending someone than attending my child's funeral. When my son was six, we moved to Tennessee. It never occurred to me to think about guns. My son came home one day from visiting a neighbor's house and casually mentioned seeing a gun in one of the bedrooms. I always inquired after that experience and if the family did have guns, their child was invited to our house but I would not allow my son to visit their house.
More importantly....do parents ask about a pool, nearby pond, river or lake??? A child is TEN times more likely to die from drowning than an accidental gun shot wound. Responsible law abiding parents don't leave loaded guns in the open and unlocked.....but many of those same parents do have pools though. I have guns in my house because as a father and a husband, I feel like it's my obligation to be able to protect my family as necessary. I would never own a pool. I can lock up my guns but never guarantee that my kids won't fall in the pool..
Huh. I'd want to know if they _didn't have guns, since non-gun owners are more likely to be clueless about the safety of many things. They're also more likely to be annoying self-righteous types.
If you don't want your kids to play with the local cop's kids, then they should return the favor and decline your call when you dial 911.
With today's kid culture it's not possible to keep unlocked guns when one has kids, even if they are old enough to handle them. The family's kids might be well disciplined but their friends could be Beavis & Butthead. Years ago kids followed rules when brought up properly, but today they know it's "not their fault" and there are no rules other than what you can get away with. Kinda like today's parents.
Not too long ago I shared a rental house with another guy who also happened to be a single dad with a very normal 2.5 yo little boy. He also had something on the order seven weapons that I didn't know about prior to moving in - and no locks! He seemed a bit put off when I insisted that he lock up all of the weapons in a safe - mind you this guy did his best thinking with his little head. He thought that since he'd grown up in the country around guns w/out locks that it really wasn't necessary. Every parent needs to ask the question and view the GUN SAFE. Trigger locks still allow for "play" and one day they will be left unlocked. No exceptions.
Every
I babysat for a friend two afternoons a week while she and her husband were at work.. They have two darling little girls, ages 2 and 4. Every once ina while the husband would stop by on his lunch hour to check on things and to grab a quick bite. On one such visit, he let me know that if there ever was a problem, he had a loaded gun under the sofa cushion that I could use in case of an emergency. I quit right there on the spot. not only do I despise guns , but the danger and responsibility were more than I was willing to bear. If anything would have happened to those girls on my watch, I don't think that I could ever forgive myself. I am so against loaded weapons in the home and fail to see how we were any safer with it's presence.
A great question to be asked!
But I am curious, what other dangers do any of you inquire about before allowing your kids to play at a friend's house?
*Poisons under the sink?
*Open fireplaces?
*In-ground swimming pools?
The topic of guns is a good starter, but not the whole conversation.
Absolutely ask about guns. If they are not locked up, in Massachusetts that's a crime. Especially with kids around, anyone who does not keep their guns locked up deserves to be reported to police. And I'm a lifetime NRA member who owns guns.
Another question to ask is "Do you have a pool?"
Children are 10 times more likely to drown in a backyard pool than be injured by a gun in a home.
As an owner, I cannot abide by irresponsible handling, but neither will I allow my life to be pried into by liberals intent on making their world safe from folks whose politics they disagree with. I refused to answer questions posed to me by the hospital when my daughter was born, and as soon as she is old enough to appreciate it, I will warn her not to share such details with her little friends and their parents. And if a parent asks me, I would reply "that's a rather personal question, don't you think?" It is unfortunate that owners like me are mistrustful of your motives, but there are a lot of folks in the northeast that would like to disarm legal and responsible owners. In fact, ownership is much more widespread than even I imagined, but responsible owners don't trumpet that fact (for obvious reasons), especially in states with near-fascist control, like Mass. or N.J.
Fact is, if you feel you have to ask, then you likely have reservations about the parent that go beyond what they may leave lying around (like sharp tools perhaps???). So you never really should get to that question.
Why not just teach your children how to react in that kind of a situation rather than assuming that everything is fine at a playmate's house?
Massad Ayoob, a police officer and firearms trainer wrote a very good book on the subject (teaching kids to be safe around firearms) that comes highly recommended by many in that field.
http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Proof-Children-Massad-Ayoobs-Handgun/dp/0936279052/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1245266001&sr=8-1
While guns are indeed dangerous, there are many more risks in a playmate's home that can be harmful or even fatal. More children die in backyard swimming pools each year than from accidental shootings. It's a shame that so many people have a knee-jerk reaction to guns. So by all means, ask about all the risks that your children could encounter. Is there a busy road nearby? Is there a a large and potentially dangerous dog? Do you supervise your child's internet use/cellphone use? Bottom line - be cautious but not alarmist.
"I would like to talk to my children, yet not cause anxiety about what to do should a parent's gun be revealed while my children are playing at the home of a friend."
My first suggestion would be that you teach your child the basic safety rules that the NRA uses for firearms so that if your child were to come across any firearm (not just at a friend's house, but anywhere).
1) STOP!
2) Don't Touch.
3) Leave the Area.
4) Tell an Adult.
I think its great that you're talking about this. It is a difficult conversation to have and it shouldn't be awkward. I struggled with this issue with my own young ones and decided that to make it less awkward, I would initiate playdates and I would offer the information - I would put it broadly though adding in a number of other parent concerns: we'd love to host a playdate - we are a gun-free, smoke-free, pet-free home. If you have any questions or concerns, please don't hesistate to ask. Sometimes, the information is volunteered in return!
thank you thank you thank you for this posting. A friend of mine died in high school playing russian roulette (at her house, with her father's, a sheriff!, service weapon). It has stayed with me forever but STILL as a mother of two precious girls don't have the courage to ask the wolves that live around me this question. I get around it by being present, restricting playdates, or having them at my house. Now I can say "I saw in the Globe......." and no one will be put off by the awkward question or the horrific story.
In your article from 2000, you didn't once suggest that the concerned parent should teach THEIR child about gun safety. The NRA runs an apolitical program called eddie the eagle that every child should take in school or through some other means including taught by the parent. It has been proven to work.
In addition, this quote from the article is incorrect.
"What you want to hear," he said, "is that guns are locked and stored separately from ammunition [as state law requires] and that children don't know where the key is kept."
The law is that the firearm must be locked up and that ammunition must be stored in a container, but they can be locked together and guns can be stored loaded in say a safe. The only time this is not the case is when transporting on a plane as per TSA rules, ammunition needs to go in a separate case. It is not entirely clear what this serves, but that is the TSA regulation. MA state law has some other esoteric transport rules but so long as the firearm is not loaded, it can be transported in the same case as ammunition.
Lastly, this quote:
If a family says they do have guns, parents have two choices, said Gross: politely decline the playdate ("I'm sorry, but this makes me nervous.") or ask about safety precautions.
...from your article is troubling at best and speaks to why some people who are asked about guns become evasive. It may not be that they are any less responsible than those who offer up the info freely. The evasive ones may be concerned that knowledge of their ownership of guns will have adverse effect in their community including their house being blacklisted for kids parties or that they will lose friends over the knowledge, as I have in the past. Or that people will not solicit their business as has happened to me in the past.
Gun ownership has become a scarlet letter for those living in states like MA, NY and CA. There is a reason you did not know your neighbors were gun owners in Wellesley. That reason is that almost always no good comes of that knowledge. The best advice you can give is to have that person ask about the storage and safety precautions. You should encourage that person to investigate the statistics that seem to purport that gun ownership is so deadly, yet those statistics are dominated by suicides. Accidental firearms deaths are so rare you have a better chance of dying walking into a hospital. But to say that they should feel free to take their kid and go home is wrong and why people who own guns are evasive when asked about them.
We would rather shed our scarlet letter but for now, we shall hide it in the political environment the likes of which MA has.
Guns should not be a taboo topic. Ask away. Just because someone has a gun (or chances are many guns) in their home does not mean it is an unsafe environment.
Would you rather leave a child with law abiding gun owners or alcoholics or drug users?
The truth is that the percentage of accidents per gun is so small that you should be more worried about your drive to the playmate's home.
How do you address drugs, alcohol and smoking? Education. But how do people address gun safety? Fear and panic rather than education. Educate your children on gun safety - Eddy Eagle says "Stop, Don't Touch, Leave the Area, Tell an Adult."
Auto accidents, drowning, accidental poisoning and falls all greatly exceed firearms as a cause of child accidental injury or death so, reasonably, one should question the parents who drive your kids around, or have a pool. You should check if they keep the household chemicals locked up and whether they have 6 inches of mulch under the swingset. And then, maybe ask about their guns.
Rather than trust other parents whom you may not know, why not make sure your own child can be trusted to stay away from guns? Rather than child proof guns, gun proof your children. The reason for this is that while YOU may keep YOUR gun locked up, someone else may not; or even worse, if a gun is left in a park or yard by a criminal, you want to make sure that your child knows not to touch it if he or she finds it.
Small children who have not reached a certain maturity level cannot be trusted to make the right decision if they inadvertently come across a gun. Children of this maturity level must be separated from guns and must always be supervised by a guardian, even if there is no danger of guns or any other threats present. Children of that maturity level are simply unable to be trusted to be left alone. However, once the child reaches a certain maturity level, and a good parent will know when their child has reached this, that child can and must be taught what to do if they find a gun.
One thing I noticed that was left out of this article was the NRA’s Eddie Eagle program. This program has saved the lives countless children over the past 20 plus years and I’m sure it will continue to do so. Sadly many parents do not even know that it, and similar programs, even exists. The program teaches children if they find a gun to immediately STOP, DON’T TOUCH, LEAVE THE AREA, AND TELL A TRUSTED ADULT. Just as we have been teaching or children for years not to talk to strangers or play with matches, we must teach them that guns are not toys, and should only be handled when told it is OK by a parent. Information on the Eddie Eagle program can be found at http://www.nrahq.org/safety/eddie/ .
Guns are part of our society and that is not going to change. Teach your children the dangers at a young age, so if they are faced with the situation of coming across a gun in someones home, they won't play with it. But with that being said, gun owners should lock them up.
It is a perfectly valid question to ask, and as a gunowner I would not mind if anyone did inquire, given the grave consequences of irresponsibility with something like this. Everyone who knows me knows there is at least one weapon in my home due to my occupation, so I am also surprised noone has ever wondered. I guess they take for granted that I am responsible, but I would not be offended if they had a concern.
Just for the record, if it makes anyone feel any better, the number of true 'accidental shootings' involving children is VERY low. Any instance is of course horrifically tragic, but also exceedingly rare. Agenda groups selectively categorize and report numbers to push people to think along the political advocacy they are pushing. In some statistics people counted as 'children' up to the age of 25, so two gang banger crack heads murdering each other in a city ghetto with stolen guns counted as a child 'accidental shooting'
I think the proper way to handle this situation is to teach your child safe gun handling techniques. If a child is taught by the parent how to safely handle, shoot, unload, and store a gun properly, then the thrill of fooling around with a gun unsupervised at a friend's house will be gone. A few hundred rounds of shooting a .22 at the range will far outweigh playing with some gun found at a friend's house or in the bushes.
The NRA promotes the Eddie Eagle program. It can and should be used by gun- and non-gun owning families to promote safety.
If you see a gun:
1. STOP!
2. Don't Touch.
3. Leave the Area.
4. Tell an Adult.
1. Teach your kids about safe handling of firearms.
2. Make sure they know not to touch any gun unsupervised.
3. Just like you would with knifes or scissors.
Problem solved.
Wow. Just Wow. Why are you even letting your precious snowflake leave the house? look up the statistics on how many people are killed when they leave their homes. Don't be a bad parent. Keep your children at home FOREVER.
You are absolutely free to ask me if I have firearms in the house and I will smile and lie directly to your face. Why? Because it's not your business.
My children are well versed in firearm safety and can spot a range violation a mile away. Your kids, with their sheltered lifestyle and unaddressed curiosity, are far more likely to go looking for and then mishandle a firearm. Mine know they can simply ask dad to take them to the range where, if they've been good, I'm likely to let them shoot under my supervision. So no, I won't tell you the truth. You don't deserve it.
I'm surprised the number of homes with both children and guns isn't statistically higher than 40%. Several news stations ran reports of people buying guns; literally making a run on some gun shops right after the election. Many had voted for president Obama but they still feared that he might change the second amendment.
I have guns in my home - locked up - my own children don't know I have these either, as most people don't. If asked, I would say no. They are not accessible and children do not need to know about it.
Also: Told in a firing range class - if asked - tell them NO. Just invites problems.
Today, it is not a good idea to not secure guns. There are far too many people walking around with issues. As for home defense? Use a baseball bat. You'll be less likely to be prosecuted if you have to use a bat.
It's shocking that 60% of people with kids think so little about the safety of their families that they don't own the tools to aid them in defending their family.
I would never own a gun, because I do not like them personally. But I grew up the daughter of a cop. I learned (before I even remember learning) that you don't touch guns as a child. Ever.
My kids have learned to fire bb guns in cub scouts, but they also learned about gun safety from a police officer at the same time. I am fairly confident that they would know what to do if they encountered a gun. So I do not present other parents with a 2 foot long list of possible hazards (guns? poisons? pools? stairs? dogs? mosquitos in the yard? tripping hazards?) before I will let my kids have a playdate. They are probably at more risk statistically during the drie over there than they are from potential household hazards.
If you hear a strange noise in the night, are you really going unlock your hand gun, load it and go downstairs prepared to shoot, when it could easily be you spouse, child, in-law, etc? And if you aren't prepared to do this, are you really any safer with your gun?
I lost my 12 year old son on Christmas Eve 1997. While playing at a friend's house, his friend took out a gun he had found in his mom's room. This boy thought he had emptied the bullets but one remained. As he was pulling the trigger several times, the gun went off and shot our son in the neck. Had I thought to ASK (Asking Saves Kids) if there was a gun in that home, I believe that our son would still be alive. If you are embarressed to ASK then close your eyes and imagine life WITHOUT YOUR CHILD !!!!!!!!
Statistically, firearms should not be the first inquiry regarding the safety of another's home. Below are statistics from the CDC on the number of deaths from accidents in the United States, 2006, in the age range of 1 to 14 years. [1]
Motor Vehicles - 1,927
Drowning, Submersion - 714
Fire, Smoke, & Flames - 380
Poisoning - 85
Falls - 76
Firearms - 54
[1] National Vital Statistics Reports, CDC, April 2009
Volume 57, Number 14
Deaths: Final Data for 2006
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr57/nvsr57_14.pdf
ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Health_Statistics/NCHS/Publications/NVSR/57_14/Table10.xls
Ann it is a unfortunate that you lost your son. But your logic is faulty. Even if you knew the mom had a gun would you prohibit your son from playing with his friends? Only having your son interact with non-gun owning Americans means he will have to say goodbye to half his friends. If your child was taught the basics about firearm safety and how to recognize a dangerous situation he would have been running away from that home the second the gun was taken out. The first rule is not to touch an firearm except under the supervision of an adult and when you find one, run and tell an adult. Sorry for your loss.
"Only having your son interact with non-gun owning Americans means he will have to say goodbye to half his friends." Jeb - actually it would mean only giving up 12.8 % of your friends, if you lived in MA. I am sure that Ann would make that trade in a heart beat 1,000,000 times over.
bv since there is no way to tell who owns what because of differing state requirements; I was using this for my data http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percentage_of_Americans_own_guns. What is your source? Regardless, if Ann had done what I suggested prior to the incident, it would have prevented this accident. Even if you ask every parent in his school, what makes you think they will answer you honestly? The owner of the gun that killed her son is under no obligation to be truthful. Not to say that having a firearm accessible to a child is not negligent.
Jeb - I guess if what you say is true, the lack of honesty is a sad commentary on America and our culture. If you cannot trust someone no to lie to you, why would you ever let your kid play at their house?
The source I used is below, but honestly, I don't know the true rate. Guess it is probably higher in red states and lower in blue states.
http://www.vpc.org/press/0905gundeath.htm
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