I have no problem with a male doctor or nurse examining me. I am an adult, capable of speaking for myself if something is not right. It's a whole 'nother ball game from someone caring for a young child who cannot necessarily tell anyone that things aren't right. If ANY doctor or nurse - male or female - makes me uncomfortable, I should be able to ask them to leave.

Why would you make a distinction between a male nurse versus a male doctor in your question??? Both are trained professionals.

I can't speak for labor and delivery since they were all female, but my wife had a male nurse when she was in recovery after having our son. He was one of her favorite nurses during the 3 day stay at the hospital, and she wished that she had seen more of him. A lot of the nurses were helping her with breastfeeding. I don't think he did, but he was the last nurse we had before leaving the hospital. All the nurses were great, and we hope he will be there if/when we deliver baby number two!

I don't think it's a matter of being old fashioned or anything, I think it has more to do with shared personal experience. I just don't really see any reason why male doctors/nurses would go into a field like child delivery or OB/GYN unless there was a severe shortage of those types of specialists. It just makes sense that you'd ideally want to work with someone who has experienced (or may someday experience) these things directly. Likewise, I don't understand why someone who has an drug or alcohol problem would ever want to work with a councilor who hasn't experienced addiction themselves.

What's the difference between having a male nurse and a male OB/GYN? If you would have a male OB, then why wouldn't you have a male nurse?

I can't say I understand why a man would want to be in this field, but I had a male OB and ended up much preferring him to the female OBs at his office that I had to occasionally see -- he was more patient, had better bedside manner, etc. But I think that was more about the kind of doctor he was than the male/female thing.

some people don't mind, personally i have a problem w/any man who wants to study vaginas for a living - it creeps me out!

My OB/GYN was a male and he was wonderful. My nurses were all female.

I had a male nurse once while recovering from a surgery and he was absolutely fabulous, the best nurse I ever had.

I can't believe the discussions here today about things males should/should not be involved with. Imagine the outrage if someone said I woman should/should not do something!

"It's a whole 'nother ball game from someone caring for a young child who cannot necessarily tell anyone that things aren't right." And women have never been guilty of mistreatment or abuse?? Just another example of why sexism will continue to be prevalent in our society. Honestly I have no trouble with sexism, men and women are different & common sense would dictate that those differences lead to males & females having different skill sets. If you don't want male caregivers fine by me as long as I can choose not to have female firefighters.

Again, outrageous. If I tell a female technician at Jiffy Lube to get one of her male colleagues to change my oil because I think she, as a woman, is less capable of doing her job, I'm a jerk. But if I tell the male nurse who's trying to help me through childbirth to "get lost," that's ok? What a ridiculous double-standard. Mind you, I don't think anyone giving birth should be stuck with someone they're not comfortable with- it is somewhat different than my oil change parallel of course- but let's call it what it is: blatant sexism.

I am a "male" nurse, a term I have a problem with. I never hear anyone calling someone a "male" plumber or "female" accountant....but that's another story. My OB teacher wanted to fail me for not having enough experience during that term, as I was regularly refused by women. I brought out the sexism card and was promptly passed and the matter hushed.
I work in psychiatry where my gender and size has opened the door to any job I want. I do find it a double standard on female's behalf but I agree with the above post. I want the right to refuse a female police officer and firefighter. As women make it very clear that male OB nurses must be perverts, I'll make it clear that a woman is simply inferior in strength and should not come to my rescue.

I was a clinician in the inpatient setting and had worked with several male nurses in the rehab unit where the patients were mostly elderly and stayed for a few weeks. There were a couple of male nurses and they were wonderful and well loved by the patients.

I myself won't mind a male OB nurse.

As for Dave Rensberger's comment of "Likewise, I don't understand why someone who has an drug or alcohol problem would ever want to work with a councilor who hasn't experienced addiction themselves.", is he therefore saying if he needs to lose weight, he would only see a dietitian who was once overweight?

I picked a female OB/GYN in part because we are of the same sex and she had had children, so she had been through the same experiences I was about to embark upon. I felt this was important in making the serious long term care plans for my pregnancies.

As for the nurses, I couldn't care less if they were male or female as long as they could tell me if the baby was okay and if I could push or not.

It's my vagina, not a sacred vessel. All I care about is if the person has the right training.

What a ludicrous and shameful problem! I prefer to have female docs (OB/GYN and primary care) for ongoing care simply because I think that a doctor with the same anatomy "gets it" more (I actually prefer that my OB has given birth and that my pediatrician has children). But in the actual L&D situation, who cares? All of my children have been born at a teaching hospital so I regularly welcomed medical students, both male and female, to sit in on appointments and do exams and couldn't have cared less who was in the room at delivery - one L&D was a cast of thousands, many of them med students and the others were more routine. I think that all of my nurses were female but wouldn't have thought twice about a male. What is wrong with us ladies...snap out of the sexism and respect the men and women who go into caring professions!

I am a male nurse or "murse" as we like to joke. This is a second career for me after almost a decade working in the engineering field. At the end of the day I got into it because I wanted my daily work to have a deeper meaning. Now I'm not into OB at all, but in clinical I was asked to leave, and it is kind of a stinger. I mean, men or women, I've seen it all...there are no surprises! I really think it's a shortcoming of women to think we're creepers or we are somehow incapable of understanding the power of birth. Even though I do see it as a shortcoming, I still believe that it is every women's right to choose to be comfortable during their labor process. However give us guys a break. Don't assume we are creepers or gay (not that there's anything wrong with that). We're just people in a special profession trying to help others...ie NURSES.

I wouldn't want a man to be my OB/GYN doctor or nurse. In an emergency, it would be different. I just want someone who has the same bits as I do, and would strongly prefer someone who has gone through labor herself already. This isn't for a general doctor, only for an OB/GYN.

Someone mentioned Jiffy Lube and getting someone else to change your oil because she was a woman. I think a more apt analogy would be getting a person who owns a car and has changed her own oil to work on your car. Except a person's body is far more difficult to learn from a manual, and nothing can really substitute the experience of having that body.

"is he therefore saying if he needs to lose weight, he would only see a dietitian who was once overweight? ".

Yes, if I had a weight problem, I would, all else equal, prefer to work with someone who has personally experienced this directly. I'm not saying that others would not be "qualified" at some level, but I would still be biased toward someone who has experienced the problem him or herself. There are just some things that can't truly be learned in a classroom.

What a shock another debate being propped up to support the notion that it is okay for women to be hypocritical sexist bigots. Have we gone completely insane. The notion of suggesting a women should not be allowed in finance, on the space shuttle, or a urologist would result in lawsuits and overwhelming coverage.... we are becoming pathetic and embarrassing to ourselves..
Perhaps fathers should start demanding that no women teach their sons because we don't have the same parts or get what their experience is like....actually given that men address sexism honestly, and we are acting like complete hypocrites, maybe that would be a good thing, especially given we are proving that we are not very good at education boys. Maybe the problem is us- or misandry and sexism have made us ill equipped to be capable mothers to sons.... gosh this kind of women's tripe is embarassing- we sound like infantile little girls..

Women who complain about male medical staff should try being a male patient in todays system. We don't get any dignity, privacy, respect OR choice as to whether we have female nurses.

Its shut up or go home.

I know for a fact male nurses are extremely restricted in what responsibilities they can have when it comes to caring for female patients. Do we really have a sociaety that believes all men are sexual predators? Whats good for the goose seems to be completely different for the gander.

So to follow some of the thoughts, why would a woman want to be or work at a urologist office. They must be creeps and pervs. The issue is I think a patient should be allowed to choose providers that make them comfortable. This isn't a thing where they seem to think males are incapable because they are male. It is a modesty issue, I get that. What I do not get is the acceptance or justification of what would be considered sexist if a male made them....but are perfectly acceptable if a female makes them. As stateda above males are considered secist if they request male caregivers

This shouldn't be a debate. The patient that went to a female doctor probably wants female nurses during labor/delivery. That's common sense folks... It the patient so requested and was upfront from the beginning, END OF DISCUSSION. It's a service people, nothing more, nothing less. In healthcare, your job is to the patient, not the patient to your job.

"Can't understand why a man would want to study vaginas and work with them"....
Well, why a woman would want to study vaginas? Why would a woman choose a career where she's touching vaginas all day?
While I'm against sexism against men...I actually agree that a man/woman should be able to choose whether or not they want a male/female doctor or nurse.
I don't see it as sexism at all, personally I'm more comfortable with a man examining me than a woman. I can see where a woman would feel the same way.
And frankly, I find the male nurses/doctors to be more patient than female nurses, and less bossy, better attitudes, and "warmer" personalities.

Joe...very good response., its about the patient and their personal choice and no one can make that call except the patient. Some prefer same gender some prefer opposite, that is their right...not is right ......or wrong. That applies equally for males and females.........heck you can get a burger your way at BK for .99. Should we expect less for $900/hour. This is not about the provider or anyone else.....

All this makes me sick. I am first of all surprised at the female writers for not understanding another female for wanting only female medical folks to look at her privates. That is her right! We as women are so quick to put another female down for having her own mind. Men generally stick together and support each other. I have a male Ob-gyn, but would love a female. If I want to be old-fashioned, shy, or private, that is my business. No, I do not want a male nurse poking at my genitals and my breast. If men had a routine treatment where someone had to poke on their genitals while they were in pain, thy would not want women in there.

To the above poster, and all others. How stupid. You think that woman should stick together even if their opinions differ? Like someone else said, males rarely, if ever, get to choose who is taking care of them in acute care. One thing that is being over looked is that many women come to the hospital to give birth that have no pre natal care. Should we go out of our way to provide a same gender nurse for someone who is not even going to pay the bill? As a male nurse, I will tell you, we go through all the same training, and are in it for the right reasons. All nurses go through extensive background checks, Chances are they are not pervs or criminals.

My husband is a nursing student, and would very much love to go into L&D or Postpartum. He has my full respect and support, as well. He finds pregnancy and childbirth very rewarding, loved being a part of the birthing process. As a father of 3, soon to be four kids, I think he knows a thing or two about both a pregnant woman and newborns. To say he doesn't would be shameful and wrong. Granted, some fathers go through the nine months with a haze of dumb around them, but generally if I see a man in any reproductive setting (L&D, Postpartum, Gynecology) I assume he has a deep love and respect for women and wants to care for them. How is that wrong? I don't think he's a kink or a pervert, I usually see him as a sympathetic, caring kinda guy. As far as "sympathy" goes. I can understand that to a point. Your male nurse is not going to be your only nurse. If you need to swap horror stories I'm sure one of your nurses will be a woman. Lay off the poor guys. It's wrong and disgusting...

The discussion is quite humorous and shows that all of us male & female can have prejudices against the other gender. This is the way we are wired as humans. These prejudices extend to race and class as well. In all the threads change the conversation to black or white and you would be reading what we today would find to be a racist discussion dated from the 40's or 50's, maybe even today. As has been stated by many here, we are caregivers and we want to make our charges as comfortable as possible. This means we need to accept their racism. We need to understand this facet of the human condition and provide the best possible care. If it means moving aside so that your co-worker can make your patient comfortable then so be it. If a patient has a DNR do we disregard it because we don't agree with their choice? NO, we respect their rights even if we don't agree with them. Thats our job as Nurses.

Erica: Why don't you write an article about the double standard toward men in healthcare when they want a male nurse to take care of them? With the vast majority of nurses, cna's, techs, medical assistants women, men often don't have a choice. Even when a man goes to a male doctor for some personal procedure or exam, who do you think shows up in the exam room with the doctor -- a female nurse or medical assistant. The fact that you're even bringing this issue up without granting that both genders have the right to same gender care if they wish, shows the great double standard, or shall we call in gender discrimination, in medicine toward men.
Why don't you write an article about that?

As a male I've had my share of wierd and unprofessional female nurses
etc. I refuse any kind of intimate care from them period! How about doing
an article on that? Visit allnurses.com and search for whoa,innapropriate
It involves female nurses and cna's peeping under the sheets of an
unconscious male patients genitals. They were not assigned to his care.
This is commonplace in hospitals and one female nurse even admitted it.
Who are the perverts now?

It's amazing how conversation shuts down when a bit of controversy pops in. What? No responses to the males who posted here pointing out the double standard? I guess this is a taboo subject, one that we're not supposed to talk about.

Everyone should have a right to work. However, healthcare is a little bit different. While men and women want to be treated equally, in healthcare because of the intimate contact and nature of intimacy issues, some patients require same gender care. This would hold true for any victim of sexual assault/abuse. Some people feel so strongly about this issue, they would rather die than accept intimate care from someone of the opposite sex. It's all about what the patient needs to feel safe, maintain their dignity and free of feelings of humiliation. Someone who was traumatized previously would have a very hard time with opposite gender care.

I am an OB/GYN nurse who happens to be male. I have worked Labor and Delivery, postpartum and currently work in the clinic setting. I have run into the situation of women not wanting a male nurse. At first it was a bit hurtful because you know that you can provide the person with excellent care. After a little while, when it came up, I shrugged it off and thought, "their loss". I was told by many of my patients that I was the best nurse they had. There are still many nurses that think men do not belong in OB and I don't see that changing any time soon sadly. I will continue my profession to the best of my ability and, if you're lucky, I may be your nurse someday.

I would rather have a woman deliver my baby, but I don't have any problems with men delivering my baby. If I was assigned a man to deliver my baby I would not complain.

Male Nurse Says: As a male nurse, I will tell you. One thing that is being over looked is that many women who come to the hospital to give birth that have no pre natal care. Should we go out of our way to provide a same gender nurse for someone who is not even going to pay the bill? Posted by connor h June 21, 09 03:25 PM.

Does this man, Connor H., mean that women who can’t pay medical costs should be forced to give birth in the street or at home, if they have one? Does he mean that low-income women don’t deserve the same quality medical care as those with more money? Does Connor H. think health care should be provided only to the affluent and let the poor or those bankrupted by medical costs die? Obviously, he has contempt for poor women, so let them be forced to have men give them what passes for care. Should someone like this, male or female, be a nurse?

According to surveys, men brag about thinking of sex more than once every minute. How does this effect men’s attitude when, as doctors or nurses, they ask to examine women’s genitals and breasts. The daily newspapers present us yearly with thousands of sexual assaults on women, children and men by male medical personnel. No wonder a male doctor in the early 19th century said, “It’s a credit to the Modesty of our American Womanhood that they would rather Die than go to a Male Doctor for a Female Complaint.”

For all of us, and this includes men, our first nurse and doctor was a women, our mother to be sure, but certainly a woman. Probably 99.9% of the population has had this experience. And this nurturing continued for many years, often into our adolescence and beyond. So all of us, men and women alike, should be used to the ministrations of women, as all of us are born from and nurtured by women. Men are accustomed to this role of women and would not be distressed, but rather comforted by it, except if viewing women through a misogynist lens or as economic competitors. Women on the other hand, don’t have to enter into this intimate nexus with men until they have a male lover or partner. But this closeness is based on sex and not on the care of the body of the other person as a mother, doctor or nurse would provide.

To the male nurses and doctors I would like to say that If a female refuses your care maybe you should think about why they might be doing that. I was abused as a child and was recently examined by a male doctor. Since than I have been tormented by it. This doctor didn't do anything wrong I just can't mentally handle a male other than my husband touching there. So the next time they ask you to leave please don't take it personally and think about the the reasons they might be asking you to leave.

To Elizabeth: I Connor H., do not have ANY contempt towards woman. We know patient's medical records when they come in. So if there is any record of abuse, we would take that into account. I find it odd that you took my words to say that woman don't deserve care. All I said was that men don't get to choose, so why should woman? Yes, I think that it is rude for a women who refuses to take care of their baby while pregnant, or get pre-natal care, to act like the care I give them is not good enough. Yes, I think that this is a double standard. Your post makes no sense, and if anything, you have contemp towards men.

One more thing; Elizabeth, the bottom of your post just flat out does not make sense. Also, I believe in health-care for ALL. I was trying to talk about woman who abuse their un-born babies, not woman who are poor. Further, to start your post as, MALE NURSE, show the sexism I must deal with everyday. That is o.k, I chose a caring profession, even if people don't accept it.

Connor H.

To Elizabeth: You are obviously not a nurse, or highly educated be any means. I too am a male nurse, and I work in pediatrics. It is often women like you who question the motives of people like me, and Connor H that has a negative impact on your care. I know that I am a good nurse, and I am a professional. Since you aren't a nurse, you couldnt understand the professional distance that doctors and nurses have when they are practicing professionally in thier role. When looking at genitals or necrotic wounds, we approach them professionally. When we look at these things we aren't thinking "oh this is hot," not at all.... You are dead wrong on that fact. And lets assume that women think about sex once an hour.....why is that ok?? They still think about sex too right? But why would that be acceptable? Its not...

And “It’s a credit to the Modesty of our American Womanhood that they would rather Die than go to a Male Doctor for a Female Complaint.”

Any woman who agrees with the above statement is an absolute idiot. And it honestly reminds me of Afganistan while under Taliban rule, women couldnt see men doctors and they died!!!! HOW STUPID!!! Let be honest, we all have only one of two things and we have SEEN ALL OF THEM! I never care when i'm in the hospital, i know that female nurse probably has a husband. And Connor H is right, if there were men who had reservations....we dont get to choose so you shouldt be able to eaither. That is NOT EQUAL.

Honestly Elizabeth, you have some real male hating issues, and you really should look into it. I am a firm believer in equality and equal rights, women need to understand that EQUALITY means just that. The same. It can cut from both sides, women shouldnt be allowed to request only female nurses and a femaly attorny should make the same as a male. If women go into the militay, they should have to shave thier heads too. The only way equality works is if everything is equal with no excuses for behavior such as requesting an only female nurse

Elizabeth. -- So, if a man doesn't want intimate care from a women he views "women through a misogynist lens or as economic competitors.
How quaint. You've got men all figured out, huh? Men as children may have been nurtured by women, but once they reach a certain age some men would rather have male help for intimate exams or procedures. I think most women understand that, if they have any empathy at all.

And Steven. I 'm sure you're a wonderful nurse, but why don't some nurses get it. You talk about: "I am a professional. Since you aren't a nurse, you couldnt understand the professional distance that doctors and nurses have when they are practicing professionally in thier role. When looking at genitals or necrotic wounds, we approach them professionally. When we look at these things we aren't thinking "oh this is hot," not at all...."

Respectfully, so what? That's looking at the situation from your point of view. It's about how you feel. Your focus should be on how the patient feels. Patient comfort, remember? You're assuming just because you're a "professional" and approach the situation the way you do, that's supposed to just do it for the patient? For some patients, it doesn't matter what you think or how professional you are. They just feel more comfortable with same gender care. And their wishes should be respected. Of course, that goes for both men and women, but men often don't have any choice because of staffing or attitudes like Elizabeth's, e.g. men don't really care about their modesty. They're used to being nurtured by women.

Again, to Elizabeth. You say "According to surveys, men brag about thinking of sex more than once every minute." Show us the surveys? Where are they coming from? How credible are they? The internet is full of BS like this, and people just pass false info around and eventually people just assume it's true. Show us this fascinating research? Talk about stereotyping? Tell us, what do women brag about more than once every minute, or isn't that a politically correct questions?

My point. It's about the patient, not about the caregiver. It's about patient comfort, isn't it? Giving birth is stressful enough without the patient having to stress about the gender of the caregiver. And for men, too. Prostate cancer, testicular cancer is stressful enough with the man having to fight to get some dignity by having a male caregiver deal with his genatals. .

This entire issue isn't about the nurse; it's about the patient. It's one thing to have your doctor examine you, someone you chose, and quite another to have strangers of the opposite sex caring for you in the most intimate way.

One out of 3 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime. Often these women have problems when giving birth after such an assault.. Humiliation as a source of trauma creates the highest incidence of post traumatic stress disorder and the most difficult to heal. Recent research on torture cites that emotional humiliation has worse effects than physical torture. One of the most humiliating stressful situations is being publicly stripped. Some women feel that way when they are giving birth with all the activity and strangers.

It is medically unsound to subject someone who is about to give birth to more stress by bullying her into care she finds objectionable. Secondly, reserach will also show that a mother unduly stressed while pregnant may have an effect on the mental health of the baby.

Medical staff have been trained to take opposite care in stride and how to quel any sexual feelings. Patients have not and many women feel extremely humiliated by male nurses seeing them spread eagled.. What is so difficult to understand about this?

Bottom line, why take the most wonderful time of a woman's life and turn it into an experience of extreme humiliation that she will never forget and may end up traumatized for the rest of her life.

IOpposite gender care is great for those women who don't have a preference, however, for the ones who do, forcing them or intimidating them will have lasting effects.

To all the male nurses out there....you are doing a noble thing going into nursing. Women do not object to any individual. We spend our lives being modest and then when we enter the hospital it's supposed to be okay to be publicy naked in front of groups of people. Some people just can't handle it.

Steven,

You really bring clarity when you speak about the way training enables all of us humans to care for the opposite sex without the sexual component and most of the time, everything is just fine

The problem is that this training only protects the caregivers leaving the patients with all the vulnerables. Feelings of humiliation are there for us. This issue isn't just about women . There are patient modesty blogs filled with outraged, upset patients because their fundamental right to privacy under the constitution has been invaded and patients are bullied into cooperating at the detriment of damaging their emotional well being when they are at their most vulnerable. This will not change until patients who are paying for medical services refuse treatment boldly, flatly when their health depends on it and forces the medical community to recognize this huge shortcoming on what they think is 21st century state of the art. Frankly, some of the tactics used are illegal.

Victims of sexual assault and torture will not go to a hospital. They don't want to feel the way that they once died and because of the lack of sensitivity, nudity and no regard for patient feelings that happens more times than it should, they feel unsafe. Nobody should feel unsafe in a healthcare setting.

Furthermore, it is medically unsound to do subject a previous victims of sexual assualt to strange males due to increase in blood pressure and psychological damagage. To them, it's just another sexual assault.

Marjorie,

I have to question the sources of your numbers because 1 out of three women being sexually assulted is just not correct, I hate to burst your bubble but the female population is not quite that abused. It is impossible to find out what the numbers are because, as you say some women do not want to report it. So you are right when you say its all about the patient, but the patient needs to have trust in all thier helathcare providers. I think it is best to leave what is, or is not "medically sound" to the actual medical professionals. You worry about women, always about women and how it hurts you and you dont even once mention the issues men might have with a female provider. And men DO NOT have the option to say they want to have a male. It is unfair of anyone to put an undue burdon on hospitals or any other facility for a reason that is not based in reason. This is not the best thing for the patient, im sorry but its not. Everything has to do with evidenced based practice, that is how the healthcare system works. Studies have shown that by far, most women have been very happy with male providers and while in the begining may have reservations, after the fact realize what a small issue it was and what a great experience they have. The ones that didnt, were the same numbers as women who say they had a bad experience with another female for many reasons. What do these studies tell us? That the reservations that you carry that you shroud in words like "modesty" and with attempts to gain sympathy with pictures of rape and trauma are VERY superficial and NOT mainstream to most women. And I can tell you that most females do not feel that men caring for them and try to give them the best experience possible, a "sexual assult." Frankly I think that it is insulting that you would suggest such a thing. If you really have these feelings just because the person caring for you has a penis, you probably should share these things with a mental health professional.

Opposite gender care is fine if you don't have a history of trauma. Unfortuneately, it's not just about women; check out the privacy blogs and all the upset men out there.

All I am saying is that if someone has a history of sexual trauma, opposite gender care can be re-traumatizing. There are medical as well as psychological effects that are extremely damaging.

Those who develop ptsd have a disability and therefore need to have protections. As a matter of fact, a bill just based the "House" for female veterans seeking healthcare when they come home from combat who have been subjected to sexual assault stating that their needs are different from those of the male vet.

People needs need to be respected. Their privacy needs to be respected. I agree with you that many people are happy with male providers and I, too, have been happy. It's for those who have been abused that need special care. They would take a drug off the market in a minute if it hurt people. It's just time that they did a study of the psycho social aspects of medical care that are psychologically damaging to people. A Director of Risk Management at a major city hospital told me that 40% of the lawsuits are over such things.

It was normal procedure in teaching hospitals to have the medical students line up and examine naked women who were getting ready for surgery after they were knocked out without their explicit consent.
Google it; it's absolutely true. How do you think a female who had been sexually assaulted in a medical facility would feel if that happened to her after the original assault? How do you build trust when there are many issues that patients aren't consulted and their autonomy is at stake?

The Patient Bill of Rights tried to address the issue of dignity and the medical profession has the arrogance to pretend this isn't an issue for lots of people.

I also agree with you that sometimes females are responsible for ill treatment as well. I guess you have to be a woman to understand that other women seeing you naked isn't as degrading as a man.

Finally, if a woman is cared for against her will, it is a sexual assault. If a woman has a history of trauma, it's irresponsible of a male nurse for example to force himself on her. Women with a history of trauma don't want to feel degraded; the presence of men for intimate procedures is humiliating for them. Why can't you understand that?

Male nurses took hospitals to court to work in labor and delivery. They lost as it was determined that it's a bona fide job qualification to be female in the labor and delivery department because the women refused intimate care from men. A woman can't have a great experience if she feels humiliated. I hope truly that you are not a nurse; completely insensitive and not getting what this is about at all.

As for seeking a mental health professional.....you need an anger management class!

Dear Marjorie,

I hate to break it to you but I am a nurse, and a good one if I do say so myself. Im am also sure that Connor H is a good one as well and since we share the same feelings it cannot be chalked up to being "insensative" as you say. I agree that is the case of past trauma, it is a special circumstance and i would support that women having only female providers and vise versa for males. However to "force care" (whatever that means) on somebody IS NOT sexual assult and is pure ignorance to imply such. Because you would equate such a thing with sexual violence means you are trying to persuade people by usin words that instill guilt or sympathy. Circumstances where people feel abused is NOT the norm and because it is not the norm there should not be generalized rules set for all women with whom it would not be an issue, only those few cases. At the time an issue occurs, changes should be made at that time. Also, you are right that it did go to court about male nurses and workin on labor and delivery and resent the fact that you are giving the opposite information. The male nurses won, with no proof of abuse/neglect and giving care that is within thier scope of practice it was demmed ILLEGAL to ake regulations for females only. It was deemed sexual harrassment because that is what it is. NOBODY should be denied patient care for a very small few who would have objections, or for those where objections are valid a true nurse is more than happy to step aside, i know i would. But for any other reason it is descrimination and i will view it, and treat it as such. Yes I dont know what it is like for a women to experience certain things, but you dont know what is like to be a practicing nurse. I urge you to read the actual bill of rights, not just the one you imagine for yourself and you will see most of your beliefs are in error. I have no anger as I am confident in my job and my values. You however are the one with opposite gender care who must have had a negative experience and obviously need assitance with going through it

Steven,

I can understand how frustraed you must be and I understand that. It's very difficult to put on someone else's hat. You never asked me why I'm so passionate about this issue. The reason is that I was treated in an extremely cruel, degrading, and public way by a pediatrician and nurses prior to delivering my first child. The hospital took disciplinary action against the perpertrators. It was the kind of thing nightmares are made. When I told my doctor how I felt about what happened to me, he fired me as a patient. When I went to speak to a mental health provider, all they were worried about is the possibility that the baby may be in danger.. Alone and isolated I managed to nurse my baby. This pregnancy was so difficult and it was my third; I had lost the first two. I was losing this one too and required an artificial progesterone that could cause limb and heart malformation. I was bedridden five of the nine months; hospitalized in my 32nd week for premature labor, had gestational diabetes and toximia--the pregnancy from hell! Always slender, I had gained lots of weight carrying this 10 lb. baby. Then I was sexually abused. I went from 180 pounds to 120 in three months.

I'm writing a book about not only what happened to me but how I was treated by the medical community afterwards and what happened next.

So...please try to understand that I don't have a vendetta against male nurses. Once your dignity and automony are taken there is nothing left. It would be against my will to have intimate care from strange men therefore for me, male care forced upon me would be a sexual assault and I have the right to refuse.

Dr. Aaron Lazare wrote a paper on "An apology in Medicine" excellent and promotes healing for patients who have been mistreated. I'm not saying it happens all the time but it does happen.

Since that time, I've devoted my life lobbying for the rights of the abused to feel safe in a healthcare environment.
I a title 7 ruling it was found that when privacy is an issue it is a bona fide job restriction. Further the court also argued that people have a reasonable expectation for privacy in a restroom and therefore, it should be the same during hospitalization.

"Based on affidavits of female guests objecting to care by male nurses, the court established that the employer had successfully established a BFOQ defense based on the privacy interests of its clientele. The court distinguished the privacy rights of patients from mere customer preference "

You made a comment that you just have to trust the people taking care of you. For me and others like me, trusting strangers when dignity issues are far from respected in the hospital setting, this is not possible. Please visit birthtrauma.org

Working on publishing material for the American Psychological Association, the book and health psychologists, this is a huge issue; one that the medical community never wants to see at the forefront. I would encourage you to have a meeting with the Director of Assigned Risk at your hospital and you'll see that there is valid room for improvement and that forcing care to someone who was previously abused would not only be the wrong thing to do; it would cause great emotional damage to the patient. This goes against everything that "to do no harm" means.

We can agree to disagree, but I know it would never be your desire to hurt someone. Just be mindful that we all come from different experiences and what happened to me is considered cruel and degrading treatment and in another setting would be considered torture. Look for the book, it's not bashing the medical community, but rather putting a light on something that has been going on for a long time.

Two doctors have modesty blogs. You might want to read some of the feelings of both men and women. It would be my dream to have a hospital that employs both men and women to serve both men and women with in addition to fine medical care, it would be a safe haven for victims of sexual assault and abuse.

Does anyone else have an opinion about the issues that have been debated on my posts? This is so important for both men and women to have their privacy rights preserved by the consitution, that those of use with terrible experiences be validated and that traumatized people get protections needed to promote good physical and mental health. Everyone has a right to feel safe in healthcare.

Check out birthtrauma.org where women share experiences about childbirth that have been traumatizing.

I don't believe that whether a male nurse delivers your baby or not, that it is an equal rights issue; it's a privacy issue. Some women welcome a caring male nurse. I might too had I not had such a traumatic, perverse medical experience.

Should anyone want to join me in my work supporting victims of sexual abuse/assault when they need healthcare, please e mail me at: marjoriestar3723@yahoo.com

This is complete and utter sexism. Where's the ACLU when you really need them. If it was a white woman who didn't want a black doctor to take care of her then they would be all over this issue. Who cares if some strange dude is looking at you. I get strange dudes that look at my genitals all the time. Get over it. I think they should have Murse OB affirmative action. Get more men into those delivery tables NOW!!!!! YES WE CAN!!!!! HOPE!!! CHANGE!!!!

MurseMachine,

You, my friend do not belong in healthcare. You have anger management issues and have no empathy and no idea what you're talking about.

Everyone has the right to care who's looking at them; it's the law!

You seem to be the type who would force your will on someone else--exactly what we don't need in healthcare.

Marjorie......

Murse Machine is right! It really just is sexism.....for a few (the minority i might add) of people who have had a bad experience with a opposite sex provider then fine, exceptions shall be made of course, but to make blanket regulations is WRONG based on a few experiences....compare them to the good ones. And its the same thing southern white women said in the south when delivering babies....it was "traumatic" to have a black doctor deliver your baby...and they tried to make that into a blanket policy. But they got over it......they realized it was dumb, but didnt come to thier senses until they HAD to.....now its fine. The same applies to this.

Steven

The United States Constitution protects it's citizens with provisions protecting privacy. The only reason that healthcare has been able to deny these rights is because when you sign the consent form to treat, you are relinquishing those rights.

Title VII protects employees from discrimmination. It does note, however, that when privacy is a consideration, it is a BFOQ to hire same gender care, thereby allowing discrimmination in certain settings. Privacy is considered different and separate from customer preference. These include: washroom attendants, and any other profession where bodily exposure is required. Because of what I stated above, healthcare has pretty much been exempt. Aside from the legalities...what is a hospital going to do with male nurses in ob/gyn when patients refuse them? That's the very reason you don't see lots of men in mammography suites and there are fewer men going into ob/gyn because the women don't want them. It's not because they don't think they're qualified. It's because they're embarrassed. You just don't seem to want to consider patient feelings. Who do you think is paying for services?

With more women going into medicine over the years, women gravitated to same gender care for intimate examinations and the situation has escalated. Now, men are requesting the same kinds of options for themselves and are extremely upset that women have been accommodated and they have not because of the female gender imbalance in nursing. You might want to read "Angels are Come".

It's about time that the emotion called humiliation is recognized in causing psychological trauma, avoidance of healthcare procedures and causing undue stress on patients. Actually, it has been recognized if you look at the latest research on torture. Why do you think this has become such an issue?

Now I'm gathering the evidence to present to our governing bodies of the damage and re-traumatization of forcing opposite gender care on previous victims of sexual abuse/assault. It is not just a few as you've stated with the national stastics of the most unreported crime now showing (and I stand corrected) one in six women and one in thirty three men are sexually abused at some time in their life. Healthcare has it's own abuse problems with cruel and degrading treatment based on standards of care. It is evidenced in elder care abuse and abuse of the disabled and the mentally ill.

Example....why are medical personnel, police and emt's allowed to watch an accident victim be restrained and publicly stripped in the ER. The patients are often awake. This is cruel and degrading treatment and either the first responders are oblivious to the feelings of accident victims or they're just enjoying the show because they can.

Healthcare is having a problem getting patients to come in for routine colonoscopies. 83% in one study I read said it was to avoid embarrassment; shocking stastictics. Don't you think there would be more cooperation if patients could choose the gender of providers for intimate care? Actually, giving patients choice would increase hiring of male nurses and reduce trauma is so many patients. It's the right thing to do when needed and I intend to show the courts that continuing on the path we're on deteriorates the mental health of perfectly healthy people with some of the way healthcare is administered.

As more and more people complain, refuse treatment and cause disturbances in hospitals it will be time for the medical community to be forced to comply with what society wants.

You can tell me all day that I'm wrong. You are the one who is out of touch and you're angry because you are being refused. Why not work together to create an environment that needs your services desperately but in a way that doesn't traumatize patients and creates an atmosphere based on cooperation, respect and understanding instead of bullying.

It is a nurses job to do no harm to the patient and anyone forcing themselves on anyone should lose their license.

It was never stated in anything I've written that genderization of medicine should be mandatory. Actually, it's not about the gender of the provider, it's about the privacy of the patient and dignity and patient autonomy. It's about a patient's right to have their body viewed or not viewed supported by our Constitution.

The reason women stand out is because (and I checked into this after reading one of your postings that the statistics are one in six women are sexually assaulted/abused and one out of thirty three men, that women seem to have more need.

I am a student (Male Nurse) working on my final year of college.I have worked in OB and had very good repore with my patients (mothers). I just made it a point that the fathers or significant others were around when doing assessments. Never once had a problem in the 4 weeks of training.

I would also like to comment about the ideas expressed about how a nurse should be working in a field that he would to someday experience himself or has experienced. How crazy is this? Don't tell me that we should work in the surgery or oncology dept (cancer dept) because we hope to have or think we would have someday this situation.

Steven S, Marjorie Starr,
I would like to point out to the both of you that the other is making fine points. Marjorie, it seems you want a blanket policy of no opposite-gender care. And that is just wrong. Wouldn't it be better to fight for the right to have same gender care for those in need? Would you fight for a white to say they didnt want a person of color to care for them? I doubt that. There is a bigotted threat behind that need. You want those who are abused and at risk to be accounted for. Right? Well, I applaud your efforts. And I bet Steven does too.
Steven, You want to be treated as an equal and have the same respect as any other caregiver right out of the gate, right? You don't want to be judged on your skills or credibility just because you have a penis. You have received training and professionalism over the years of your career and life. As a professional you have the awareness and concern for your patient to recognize the need to "step aside" if your male-ness is an issue or risk for your patient. I am positive of that statement given your previous postings. But what nursing in general needs less of are blanket policies that further limit the nurses ability to care for their charges.
Nursing is more than a job Marjorie, for the majority of nurses their career is the expression of their character, of their awareness of others and their inate ability to care for another. I am truly sorry for the experiences you faced. As a patient I too have felt that sting. But, and this is important here, to classify, what I think is in the range of 16%, of all nurses as being unable to care for over half the population ( that is male nurses, caring for females) is dangerous. And more importantly, limiting 84% of our nations nurses from caring for almost 50% of the population ( female nurses caring for males) is utterly insane. That is how I see it.

Now to voice a concern for those poor humans who face abuse or torture and dont report it. Well, how do you meet their needs? Nurses are EXCELLENT at assessment. They are trained to look into ALL aspects of patients and can do some preliminary assessment to find needs, patient behavior can be a great clue. Why does this patient flinch or withdraw with this nurse but not that tech. Hmmm. time to start asking questions. ER nurses especially have this foresight. This is why RN's are so important and lesser (although not inferior) caregivers are just not the same. A MA is just not trained as much as a RN. But I think I am coming across clearly. At least I hope so.

Finally, yes I am a nurse, a Pediatric Intensive Care nurse. A RN. And yes a MAN. I step aside from those who dont want a male, as in those who are abused, those at risk, those who just plain have a issue. But frankly I educate as I go, my co-workers educate as we go. Males are no worse than females in nursing. We are not just here to lift patients or take the violent ones, we care, we are dedicated, and we are professional.
Marjorie, I face on a frequent basis the stereotypical thinking of many cultures. Thinking such as: if I'm a nurse then I must be too stupid to be a doctor. Or, since I work in a female dominated career I'm gay, or worse that since I work with the human body I must be a pervert or player looking to score my next grope of some unsuspecting child or woman. Do you see why Steven may be just a bit upset about your proposal? Because as one of his peers I am just as upset by it, but Steven the other side is just as true. Should be whoever walks thru a hospital's door doesn't just get whoever walks to the bedside. How many Rape/ Abuse RN's are male? very few. Why is that I wonder? How many men do the rape kit? We as nurses can serve our patients well, if we are informed of their needs. ANY nurse would do that. (And yes margorie, just like any profession we have our bad apples, and we have our by-laws to rid us of them)
I have had many surgeries and doctor visits and yes nudity and "coming clean" about my needs are part of that. So if you are upset about humility in healthcare yes you should take it seriously. But If you want our best then tell us straight about your needs. We cant help if we dont know. We cant respect if we dont know we are offending.

I still can't believe how these men really have these bad attitudes about this topic. What does it take for these and all men once and for all to accept the fact that men and women are enormously different, in many respects, and the healthcare setting is no different. I have asked my male relatives and friends if they would get upset like these males if a female did not want them to be their medical attendant. These males all said they understand and would not get their egos bent out of shape. I think the problem is that men have been in control for so,long and they want to control everything.

Peter,

Thank you for acknowledging my comments. At no time did I make any blanket statement about same gender care only. There might be some evidence that a shift in mindset would help both caregivers and patients alike. So many people are upset about this issue. You might want to look up Patient Modesty Blogs, most recently #24, 25. I'm only advocating for those who need it and it is a matter of life and death for these patients.

What you don't understand is that traumatized individuals cannot always speak when they are in the throws of feeling humiliated or traumatized. Most can't speak afterwards either. Some, with PTSD will dissociate. You are thinking like any untraumatized person.

Once I was like most people. Modesty invasions were tolerated even by strangers in healthcare. Then I was sexually humiliated by a deviant doctor and staff while in the throws of labor. Not only will I never forget it, something like that will never happen to me again. The real problems exist because the medical community does not want to accommodate gender requests in my experience.

What I am saying is that instead of making life hell for survivors, it is psychologically and medically unsound to subject victims to re-traumatization because it erodes mental health and physical health as well.

As for the comments you don't know you're offending....cop out. Naked patients don't want to be observed by groups of people. People in the ER don't want to be stripped naked with an audience and nurses pulling curtains open without question when patients are naked prepping themselves for outpatient surgery don't have time to request anything; the damage is already done.
Marjorie Starr

Marjorie,
All due respect intended, you claim to be a researcher, but do you work in the medical field at all? Please do not insult me with the statements of "cop out" With me saying I do not know when I MAY offend by my simply being male I mean JUST that. Not stripping people naked, not entering unannounced in pre-op, not any of the situations you mention. I mean entering a room, announcing myself, with to a patient with a reason for admission or examination with no coorelation to abuse or trauma, for example, a fever. IF we are not informed of a pre-existing PTSD or assault history, we can have no idea we are offensive as you say. Do you understand?
I have had 4 major surgeries, have been stripped naked, have had up to 20 students watch as catheters were placed and yes I felt embarrassment. I took control of my care and set the limits on it. I did not place the control in the hospital or those working in it. Why do you suggest that it is the responsibility of each and every hospital to anticipate the needs of the populace if they themselves cannot tell us. You will notice that the majority of professionals would argue for your rights if we are told of your need. If they didn't, I wouldn't use them. Not only that, but I would report them. As a fellow human I am truly sorry for the devience you experienced. But it has been my experience just the reverse. The medical community bends itself to meet the needs of their patients.

As to the situations you do mention...Having some experience in this, people are not routinely stripped naked unless there is a need. a LIFE threatening need. Usually they are asked to change on their own. Having been a patient myself on more than the occasion and also being in ER's and Inpatient settings with a wife and/ my children it is not uncommon to see a caregiver knock before entering. And yes you are correct it is just as common to see someone enter without. We as a group suffer from poor manners just as the general population. But that is a different topic. My last surgery was just last month, so I tell you now I did NOT have only male nurses. I had nurses. Period. Caring nurses who treated me no differently than the other patients. And guess what Marjorie? I do have a diagnosis of PTSD. Thanks to false imprisonment, what did I do? I told them my needs... I needed to be informed of what to come, not just wisked off. I needed to be able to keep a door open at all times. And gentle waking from anesthesia despite the fact I may be aggressive. Marjorie, each and every member of that team never heard of my needs until I told them, then every one of them met them. Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Mandating is not the answer. Education, workflow changes, hospital cultural norms, and even patient empowerment are more likely to provide a more positive result than regulatory mandates.

Whatever field you work in, I imagine it doesn't have to meet the needs of so many different factions than healthcare does. And if you place your cohort above all others.. than face it, that is narrow minded. I work in a pedatric hospital currently, and they have some tremendous needs. Throw in cultural, socio-economic, pathophysiologic and dare I say gender needs. I think we do a pretty darn good job.
I've seen your name associated on this topic on numerous sites. And frankly, I think you are a strong advocate for this population. Good for you, keep it up. But Marjorie, I have to be a advocate for EVERY population. EVERY single patient in my care gets me yelling in their corner. I do not pick and choose, I listen, I try to be proactive and above all, I try to be a positive in an otherwise negative situation. Please consider when you say that, as a group, males should be excluded from caring for an entire gender of population. I have read testimony from Male SANE RNs (nurses trained in abuse/rape care) who state that their care provides the first positive male interaction for many patients, those are patient statement btw, not the RN's beliefs.

I believe it more appropriate to have same gender care as part of a patient's need rather than a norm. And when next anyone posting or reading here wants to say.."what is it with these men? Why dont they just get it that we dont feel confortable with them?" Well, since you feel that way by all means ask for a female, we dont mind. But please there are hundreds of others and many posted here, who dont mind and frankly prefer males. So please respect my choice of career as I respect yours. I dont think you would ever like it if I walked into your employer or job and pointed a finger at you and said YOU just dont get it, your not wanted. Or worse you just want to be controlling. I am not walking in and demanding you be my patient.

And Minsy? Where is my bad attitude? I am not imposing on anyone. If you were my patient and I came to your bedside, I sure as heck would not force my care on you. And if you said nothing about your preferences, well as part of my assessment, your behavior would raise a flag. So I would raise the topic. And if you then made a preference known....It would be placed in your chart for further shifts during your stay and for future visits as well. You, may not be aware but when I went to school it is mandatory that ALL student nurses be taught OB/GYN health and participate in clinicals, the men don't just sit this one out. And we are accepted by most as their favorites in many situations

And with any exam on a female, PERMISSION is the first assessment I make. and the first anticipation of care is that of a chaperone.

I live this issue daily, so yes I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Anyone who wishes to change the way current practices are done, speak out, be the one who holds the reigns in your life and decide who not only cares for you, but who speaks for you.

Peter,

I agree with much that you say. Sorry that you have PTSD and recognize how difficult that is to deal with. I'm not sure if you read the one post where I spoke about what happened to me in a hospital. Before the life changing event, I was like most people in my thinking in that some level of embarrassment happens, however, it's a hospital.

Unfortunately, my experience that changed my life involved extremely cruel and degrading treatment with no medical emergency. Additionally, my experience involved sexual deviance on the part of a physician who was disciplined. It happened at the most vulnerable time of a woman's life; laboring with child. This, I'm afraid, is the real source of my trauma. It wasn't the privacy violation as much as the sexual deviance. It was the kind of thing that nightmares are made and the trauma of that day ruined my birth experience.

Given my experience and the unwillingness of medical personnel to assist me with my privacy needs, trust has been eroded. I have been lied to more than once in order to get me to proceed with treatments. You cannot walk away when they have you signing consent forms papers with anethesia running through your veins contrary to what I spent three weeks arranging. Then, remembering after the procedure that they had me sign something, I asked for a copy. Three weeks later after yelling and screaming I received the papers. They stated that students had the right to watch and that my body would be photographed. My trust eroded, avoidance set in and it took me three years to walk into a doctor's office after that.

While you have your side to things, there is a whole other side. The side that's responsible for 40% of the lawsuits filed--a waste of money, a waste of time and a waste of human product eroding trust and traumatizing patients.

My mother was an RN. I respect anyone who goes into medicine. What I'm saying is that victims of sexual assault do need special care. They should identify themselves so that they can be properly cared for. This, too, is a risk because (just like the general population) there are deviants who work in healthcare who enjoy humiliating people and countless lawsuits reflecting such. It's one of the unfortunate liabilities of our humanity as a society.

They now know that stress causes an increase of infarctions in the brain (stroke) and that many people who come into the ER in such circumstances have been under undue stress. Recognizing PTSD as a disability and recognizing the medical factors involved with great stress and...recognizing that humiliation is a source of PTSD you would have to agree, to some extent that to protect this segment of the population, special protocols should be put into place. It is not only medically and psychologically sound, it would promote the kind of environment that would allow previous victims to enter the healthcare arena when many of them will not.

My research includes: ptsd, humiliation studies, privacy and torte law, torture and the medical industry and the way that it works. My advocacy work includes the relationship between the mental and physical aspects of our being and the harm that forcing opposite gender care on patients who have been sexually tortured, assaulted or abused and the lack of protocols currently in the system.

Things are starting to change with genderization of healthcare workers in rape centers, mental health centers. All I'm saying is that the general population needs help too.

While I have no doubt you are a wonderful nurse and doing your life's work and have an absolute right to defend it, there are those who are not you; who enjoy humiliating people, who do not respect the people they are caring for.

My experience was outrageous. My life and that of my family has changed because of it. Everyone has their own spectrum of experiences. We have to as social animals need to try to understand the harm that can be caused to those most vulnerable.
I'm sure as a dedicated medical professional you would agree with that.
marjorie starr

Let's look at the topic we're discussion: "Should you let a male nurse deliver your baby?"
The question itself implies a choice. That's what this is really about. Choices for both men and women. And, despite what Steven said in an earlier post, men do have a choice about intimate care -- if they push it. Of course, a male nurse might not be available. But gender equity means just that, equal treatment for both genders. Hospitalsl need, and many do, staff to accommodate both genders. But don't doubt that, under the law, male patients have the same rights as do women. It may not be tested often, but if it gets into a court room, you'll find that the civil rights and privacy laws go both ways.
Back to the main question: "Should you let a male nurse deliver your baby?" Of course. If you feel comfortable with that.
Should a man allow a female nurse to insert a Foley cath or give a bed bath -- certainly, if he feels comfortable with that. It's not really about what's easiest for the hospital, or convenient for the staff, or the employment "rights" of the nurses. It's about the patient.
And, as I read between the lines of this debate, despite the occasional justified anger from some of the male nurses, I gather that they agree and they really try to provide patient comfort and patient choice. Both sides in this debate have valid points, and both sides sometimes push their arguments too far.
And nurses need to remember this: Patients without medical training or familiarity with hospital routines don't know what it's like to be a nurse. But nurses with medical training and familiarity with hospital routines don't know what it's like to be a patient with no medical training or familiarity with hospitals and their routines. These are different experiences. Knowledge is power, and nurses need to get in touch with the sometimes complete powerlessness that some patients feel. Neither can really walk in the other's shoes. But we can all try to empathize.

I agree with everything that you said, Minutemoon, except for one. "Both sides sometimes push their arguments too far". Both sides have no choice but to push as hard as they can or the other side gets trampled.

While both sides make statements; not all the people from opposite sides are ignorant to the issues at hand. Researching the medical industry and how it works has given me the insight to understand why the Patient Bill of Rights was written. Also, on how and why it is still ignored.

Medical staff is pressured by admisitrative forces to pretend that modesty issues don't bother patients. This is far from the case and the bottom line is that being bullied is the way the medical system works, especially during hospitalization and residents of nursing homes.

Abuse is rampant and there is no accountability or responsibility from the medical community to recognize that while some things work wonderfully, some things not only don't--patients are being hurt.

Who cares how qualified someone is when there very presence to those who object is a violation of there personal beliefs regarding dignity?

Looking at the medical industry, there is no question that they are being pressured and policies are inconsistent with regard to human right's issues.

One nurse on this blog mentioned that it's not right for patients to upset the system with gender demands. He has a point. The problem is that without upsetting the "apple cart" patients lose, nothing is done and the bullying continues.

The lack of respect that is rampant in our hospitals. Employees barging into rooms, knocking and not waiting for a response, no locks on doors making patients feel stressed and worried that their privacy will be violated leaving them extremely humiliated.

There are others too who enjoy humiliating patients and while uncommon, exists in healthcare. How are patients supposed to protect themselves?

Notably, the medical community knows this and instead of addressing this issue, relaxing policy they would rather intimidate and make patients avoid future healthcare.

Not all situations are like this. There are those, and I want to recognize, compassionate staff, wonderful male nurses and others who are at the other end of the spectrum. We need more of you.
We need more male nurses to accomodate the men who feel upset when all they have is no choice at all.

Bottom line....patient wishes with regard to gender is not a consumer request; it is a privacy right and does not reflect the competency of the employee. It simply means that patients feel humiliated being observed by opposite gender care during intimate exams. It's as simple as that.
Marjorie Starr

"And with any exam on a female, PERMISSION is the first assessment I make. and the first anticipation of care is that of a chaperone".

Peter RN -- Is that standard for female nurses before they begin intimate procedures on male patients? Do they ask the male if he would like a chaperone? Why or why not? Granted, permission is always needed, direct or implied, with any patient.. But you imply that you offer your female patients a choice of gender. Is that so? Let's talk more about the double standard.

People who have felt humiliated by previous violations in healthcare only consider a chaperone to be another pair of eyes; an audience and many do not want them. They are not afraid of abuse. They are afraid of feeling degraded.

Disappointing as it may be, stastistics will show that the majority of deviance is done by males. You can argue all you want but those are the facts. Men should be given the option of a chaperone of the same gender of course. Men should be given every consideration that females are given. There should be no discrimmination.

Patients give permission even against their will because they are afraid and intimidated. They would rather feel humiliated than stand up for their privacy rights. I agree that if they don't speak up, they either need an advocate with them or deserve what they get!
Marjorie Starr

This is a very interesting topic. I am a male and I am currently studying nursing. Although my furthest interest is Anesthesiology and nursing is my avenue to achievement this, I am already considering the stereotypes I may encounter during my two year acute care requirement in the nursing field. I have thought a lot about this stereotype and how it makes me feel and honestly, my conclusion is that it truly would not bother me to be asked to leave a room by a male or female patient. The reason is not playing to political correctness or weird, fake senses of self righteousness. It is simple, women are (generally) more shy or guarded about their bodies than men. As a husband it would not bother me if my wife was uncomfortable having another man examine her, and as the other man it would not bother me to have a female patient respect her husband and herself (in that sense) if this is a deeply held feeling of exclusivity the woman has for her relationships with men. Honestly, as a nurse, someone who should be more intimately tied to their patients well-being, I want my patients absolutely honest about what will make them the most emotionally comfortable during treatment so that they can truly begin to physically heal or deal with a situation. Any man or woman with a chip on their shoulder about "sexism" in nursing is missing the point, in my opinion, and needs to get over themselves. It is not about the nurse, it is about the patient, and like it or not, there are always going to be people, male and female, that when in an emergency or stressful medical situation, are going to be shy, emotional, and/or brutally honest with you. Do whatever it takes to treat the patient first and worry about how that makes you feel later. Besides, from what I hear about how busy any nurse is, there will be no shortage of other patients to tend to if one doesn't necessarily want you around. :-)

Jesse,
You are going to make a fabulous nurse and any patient who gets to know you and what you are about (even one who was sexually abused previously in a healthcare situation) would be more inclined to have you care for them. All of this is really about respect and you get it.

One of the problems is that most of the time in a hospital setting, those caring for you are strangers. People who were previously sexually abused in a hospital setting were abused by strangers. How can these people feel safe when they don't know who is caring for them? Where is the basis for trust when they were so violated previously? It's not about being abused again, it's about feeling degraded. Public stripping, public shaving and insensitivity can create extremely traumatic situations. Coupled with medical issues this is quite a recipe for psychological trauma and PTSD. Throw in a sexually deviant employee, together with these other issues, really creates a detrimental, permanently distressful situation for those needing healthcare. They will avoid it at all cost, and they do!

"my conclusion is that it truly would not bother me to be asked to leave a room by a male or female patient."\

Jesse -- If you were to do that, the patient would have no problem getting a female nurse. On the other hand, if a man requests a female nurse to leave (respectfully), what would be his chances of getting a male nurse? That's the problem.

"The reason is not playing to political correctness or weird, fake senses of self righteousness. It is simple, women are (generally) more shy or guarded about their bodies than men..."

Frankly, I don't think it's really that simple. Even if it is true, what about men who prefer same gender care and can't obtain it? What about hospitals or clinics that make no effort to staff with at least one male nurse or aide on duty? Are they suggesting that men deserve less respect than women? Is their dignity less important? What about gender equity? What does it really mean?

As one of only a few male nurses in the profession, I hope you will be an advocate for gender equity as far as choice goes. You sound like a fine nurse.

Minutemoon,

You are absolutely correct. Doesn't it seem ridiculous that if patient's want opposite gender care that one should be accommodated? I suppose there are two things going on here. First, what to do with the over abundance of female nurses. Fire them and hire males? Not that simple. However, the system needs to change and can change..

Male patients MUST speak up and unless it's life or death, walk out when your needs are not met and file a complaint stating your right to privacy under the Title VII exception. They have that stupid blurb in the Patient Bill of Rights that patient's have the right to have treatment in line with their beliefs and preservation of dignity. It's stupid because nobody pays any attention to it.

Second, legislation should be put into force that in order to operate, institutions must have (for elective surgery to start) same gender care available or they cannot practice. This would force instiutions to pay more attention to the issues and will also force them to hire more male nurses and develop protocols to have the most vulnerable treated humanely.

Most of all the needs of all the patient's must be met. Anything short of that is not patient oriented medicine. Where do you find that anyway? I think our medical system is disgraceful, unethical and harmful.
Marjorie Starr

ALL FEMALE NURSES ARE PERVERTS AND UNPROFESSIONAL

James has posted this 3 different times in the comment section, so I'm finally posting it since he's so keen to share. Not sure how it advances the conversation, an attempt at satire, perhaps? -EN

We are all products of our experiences. Perhaps James was mistreated by a female nurse?