Contest update

For my entry to be in the top 50 is an honor enough for me. My October entry is my second and I've only campaigned to five people and that's including my husband, LOL. I'm not even sure if the other four voted for my October entry because I haven't heard from them. It's true that the pictures should win on their merits and not because our family and friends voted over and over.

I agree, it's an honor to have my photo selected to be in the top 50. However, that said, I did check out a photo that I liked (and voted for 1st place) on FLICKR and saw that the person had requested people vote for their photo and provided a link to boston.com and they had done the same thing on their web page (with a link provided also). So I can see how voting can be skewed in favor of those who actively seek votes. I don't campaign for votes at all, however, I do vote twice. Once for myself and friends/family members and a second time for those that I really like the best (other than my own of course!).

Instead of having these turn into silly popularity contests, is it possible to have the photos judged ONLY by professional photographers or member of the Globe staff? I know a young person (not me) who submitted a photo but did NOT ask anyone to vote for it, not realizing that these pix weren't chosen totally on the merits.

I agree with "abcdef". I like having it narrowed down, so start with the top 10% or 50, and then pick the top 5 or 10 a few days later. At this point, I guess I would never win since I would never seek votes. And I am going to question every winner from now on. I didn't even know you could vote daily.

I tell no one when I make the top 50 except my husband (and I don't think he even votes!). I think people will always try to rig the betting, but if a picture is truly outstanding, then hopefully they will receive the votes for their picture.

I agree with the idea that the top 50 out of the submissions is enough for me to keep trying. And if people win because they did all of that campaigning instead of having a great picture - it doesn't really mean that much anyway.

The suspense is killing me - when will we find out?

Ed. Note: See the top of this post for a new graf I just added ... given the apparent bloc voting we seemed to get, and the comments posted here, I want to give this some thought before posting the winners. -- Teresa

I like the idea of a single judge or small jury of Globe Staff.
Allow people to vote, too, have the popular vote count as 1 vote and pair that with the jury vote.

Ya, I agree with abcdef as well. It shouldn't be a popularity contest. The winner should be decided based on merit by unbiased judges. :)

I agree with "abcdef" as well. I was excited to make the contest and told everyone. I wasn't trying to be malicious, I was genuinely excited to be in the top 50. I had no idea we could vote more than once until one of my friends told me that they voted for me a couple of times. I think the only way to certainly make the contest unbiased is if we have a panel of judges picked by the Globe decide.

...or change the voting system to only accept one vote per IP address/Mac address or however it is you identify the voter.

ED NOTE: Hi, NAFgirl ... unfortunately, people can beat just about any system you put in place. Laptops set to have a dynamic IP address get a new one every time they reboot -- there are even websites where you can go that will change the IP address on your laptop without you having to reboot! Setting a cookie is another method, but you can disable cookies.

I think what I'm hearing from everybody is that it is more important to you to reward truly excellent photos than to be able to vote. I think I was valuing participation a little too high ... for a site like this, I think you're all saying that quality is much more important to you.

-- Teresa

Ya, the "one vote per IP address/Mac address" system also doesn't address the campaigning/popularity issue.

hi, this is my first time on Raw and also the first time entering the contest for October...I never saw a way to vote for photos and I never saw the top 50. Not sure what I was doing wrong but I kept going to the Raw page and last thing I heard was that they were being loaded in the Voting machine and my computer kept crashing on that page. I'm sad because I never got to see the photos that made it to the top 50 and never even got a chance to see if mine was one of them or not. It seems very unfair that some people are "campaigning" others when I never even got the see the photos!!

ED NOTE: Aw, Disappointed -- I am really sorry that happened to you ... but one consolation is that we're in the middle of a new contest for November (just look over in the right column for information about it), and we're also about to vote on themes for December and January. If you ever have trouble again, please write to me at raw@boston.com.
-- Teresa

Teresa, I can see that valuing participation from a public site can "water down" the contests credibility. So how can you control for quality votes without taking the public out of it? How can you legitimize votes?
I submitted my photo because I thought it was a good photo and I want it to be judged legitimately on its quality. If I were to tell my friends and family that I submitted the photo and it made it to the judging process and they vote on it, so be it. Besides, the fact that others don't tell people they participated is irrelevant. I don't see anything wrong with people campaigning for their own picture given the public nature of the contest. If you don't want campaigning or popularity issue it should be voted on by the Boston.com staff or professional photographers and not be a public contest. Regardless, it's obvious there was some major voting problems or this wouldn't be an issue up for discussion.

While, as I said above, I would be in favor of having the entries judged by pros, I agree wholeheartedly with SLEB's sentiments.

I don't think that 'campaigning' breaks the spirit of the "Don't Stuff the Ballot Box" rule. Yes, I let people know I was a finalist. I was excited.

I did not tell people to flood the site and vote for me (probably why I didn't get an email from Teresa), but I did ask people to visit and if the felt my submission was worthy that I would be thrilled to have their vote.

Those who did not tell a soul are not on any higher moral ground or better than those who crowed a bit about the excitement that being a finalist meant.

I still think there is a place for a public vote, but perhaps (and here I go spending the Globe's money) there could be a judges' prize and a public vote prize.

If telling people you were a finalist was not fair, then I say those using high end DSLRs aren't being fair to me since I shot with a P&S. Not really, but just making a point.

Re: SLEB:

I agree - friends and family voting is one thing, but telling everyone you know that you have a picture and voting repeatedly is a different thing. From what Teresa has said, blocks of voters were voting multiple times. At which point it becomes a circus to see how many friends someone can have vote.

In the end - don't you want to win based on your picture, instead of how many of your friends vote?

I was excited to have made the top 50 last month, but in the end decided to tell no one outside of my household. I doubt my spouse even voted (the little ones certainly didn't!) Asking for
votes -- from anyone -- kind of seems like cheating,
particularly since there's a cash prize (vs. just bragging rights). I'd even feel guilty voting for myself every day for 10 days. In the past I have voted 3 times--for mine (not necessarily first), & for my top 8 favs.

Also note that my PC slows way down when I load the pages with the photo viewer on them (not the voting machine). I updated my browser, but I think there may be a [memory use] problem in the photo viewer code?

Teresa, agree w/ others like SLEB ... I'd be open to having a set of pros judge the photos, and take it out of the potential for abuse realm.

Appreciate you taking this seriously and conscientiously.

Teresa, I agree with your following comment "I think you're all saying that quality is much more important to you." I would rather be recognized for my work standing on its own versus stacking the votes in my direction. It's one thing if you're excited and want to tell a few friends and family members that you were selected into the top 50, but it's a whole different story to actively solicit for votes and vote multiple times.

As one in the top 50, I voted for myself, twice :). Campaigned for likely 10 more votes from friends/family. I think the RAW community would greatly value seeing some feedback out of the voting machine (as we've seen with other polls offered... Red Sox, political, etc).

I hope we're all looking for quality AND audience popularity. I spent a GREAT amount of time deciding on my other top two: looking at nearly all's EXIF data, composition, exposure, and appeal... truly picking out votes for those I thought deserving.

I'm sure the pro has a tough time narrowing down the top 50. I'd also love to see the pro's Top 3, and if there's any crossover from the pro and the audience participating.

And Dear Ms. Ms. Teresa, we love RAW. Thanks so much for your time on this. But please... there are 50 people out there who went to the site tonight and said *UGH* at no results. You're killing us! :)

Much love, and thanks again. RAW has been some great motivation to shoot.

What a great solution - thanks for all your hard work on this Teresa. It does not go unnoticed!

As I posted previously, I think that the intent of submitting to these "contests" should be to SHARE your photos and to receive FEEDBACK. I LOVE critiques, and HATE contests and competitions. If you must have "winners", I would agree with abcdef, etc. to let a jury panel make the selections. Furthermore, I would suggest instead of selecting only "winners", create another category of "could have beens". The panel would offer critiques and suggestions on photos that can be drastically improved with simple or minor changes. Bill Greene's comments on Lesley's work are some good examples.

The best lessons I learn in life, photography or otherwise, are from my mistakes pointed out to me, and NOT from the praises on my successes.

I submitted the particular photos expressly for the purpose of being critiqued by a professional. I really enjoyed and appreciated the constructive critique. I don't think you can get the objectivity we are all looking for if everyone is allowed to get involved.