FROM PENNILESS IMMIGRANT TO THE NOBEL

Author: By Marian Christy, Globe Staff

Date: Sunday, February 5, 1989
Page: 84
Section: LIVING

Penzias shared the 1978 Nobel Prize in physics for his part in discovering evidence validating the "big bang" theory that the universe was created as a result of a tremendous explosion some l5 billion years ago.

Penzias, vice president of research at American Telephone & Telegraph's Bell Laboratories since 1981, joined Bell in 1961, conducting research into radio astronomy. He has become a world-famous astrophysicist with one recurring fear: that people think of him as less than human.

Born in Munich, Germany, Penzias and his family immigrated to the United States in 1940, arriving in New York as penniless German-Jewish refugees. His father eventually worked in the carpentry shop of the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

In this interview in his office here, Penzias, 55, contemplates his rags- to-riches rise with a sincere God Bless America attitude. He also says that to succeed is to take a chance on yourself and be willing to forgive your own mistakes.

Penzias is a 1954 graduate of the City College of New York and has his master's and doctorate degrees from Columbia University. He is the only American to hold an honorary doctorate from the Paris Observatory. He has a new book on the market, "Ideas and Information: Managing in a High-Tech World."

He and his wife, Anne Pearl Barras, live in Highland Park, N.J., and have three adult children.

"I always felt different. Always. I came to America as a refugee. We were poor. My dream was not to be poor. Even now, as I say that to you, I am crying inside.

"Unless you're poor, you don't know what poor means. It means you get up in the morning and start killing cockroaches in the bathtub. It means wearing old clothes that make the other kids laugh at you. It means not being able to eat peaches until the end of August.

"When I came to America from Germany, I would have liked to have been accepted. I would have liked to play ball with the other kids. It didn't work out that way.

"Achievers come disproportionately from nonmainstream groups.

"When you're different, you have more of a penchant to deviate from the thinking of the group. By the same token, some people are broken by their differentness.

"I could have decided something was wrong with me. I could have ended up a failure. People excluded from society often fail.

"I didn't succumb because I have an ability to endure pain. Some pains didn't matter. Being different wasn't one of them.

"To this day, I still feel different. It still hurts a little. Maybe that's why I work so hard for acceptance. I don't like Polish jokes. I don't like people who tease other people. I don't like anything that makes people feel badly about themselves.

"I used to feel isolated in my work. I've learned how to transcend isolation. I do it by talking a lot to people. I watch their responses. I try not to let being a scientist stop me from being a communicator.

"Maybe it was my midlife crisis. One day, I just decided that I always felt a little lonely, that I wanted contact. I wondered if I could make it on my interpersonal skills as opposed to making it as a scientist.

"One of the reasons a person becomes a scientist is that he or she doesn't have to deal with people. Now, if someone describes me as a highly-articulate author, I'm in heaven.

"People think that the person who wins a Nobel Prize is a genius. I don't think of myself as a genius. I'm ordinary in some ways. I'm human.

"It's hard for me to convince people that Albert Einstein was interested in personal publicity. Can you imagine Einstein going to the bathroom? A scientist is not supposed to be human. The notion of human beings as machines is most applicable to scientists.

"I believe in the American dream. It still lives. Look at the Cuban millionaires who left Castro with only the clothes on their backs. Look at Mrs. Field and her cookies. I just read about a California housewife who
singlehandedly built a $100 million software company.

"All these people are different. They were lucky and they were prepared to be lucky. Achievers take chances. They see what others don't see. That's part of their difference.

"Progress comes from human growth. Everyone has the ability to grow. Why don't people grow? Because they're afraid of the humiliation of failing. What haunts them is the fear of being shown that they're wrong.

"People should ask what messages they have in their heads. Too often, we remember what our teachers or our parents told us about ourselves. It's usually negative.

"To get the true message of 'self,' you have to acknowledge that the old messages you hear are outmoded. You have to say to yourself: 'Is that really me? Or were they talking about a fourth-grade kid?'

"I had to do that for myself to some extent. It's the only way you can discard old images and confront the real possibilities of self.

"Understand this: I do not think machines will replace humans. A machine can add numbers like a human being can add numbers. But a machine does not have a mind, and a mind is irreplaceable.

"A machine uses logic. But logic is not really suitable for solving everyday problems. Logic is too limited. Logic works only if you know absolutely everything. No one ever knows absolutely everything.

"The natural desire to experiment has a lot going against it. When kids 'explore' in a park, what they hear is: 'Get away from there!' Or: 'That's dirty!' Or: 'Don't touch that!' Parents sigh in relief when a child stops asking questions.

"I still love to ask questions. You have to be careful about questions. Questions can either illuminate or destroy. You can ask a question that makes a person feel stupid. I try never to do that. I prefer the question that illuminates, that adds understanding of a problem.

"Illumination defines what we know and what we don't know.

"To innovate, you have to be curious. You also have to give yourself permission to fail. You have to be able to live with your own mistakes.

"Some people go from success to success. I don't know them. Some people blunder into what is an innovation and, when they do, they should follow their instincts."

(Penzias is scheduled to speak Feb. 17 at The Computer Museum, 300 Congress St., Boston, at an AT&T-sponsored brunch for invited guests only.)

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