April 18, 2008 -- Stonyfield Farms CEO and green businessman Gary Hirshberg
green_day__Guest_: I know about your Susainability Counts program, and that you gave your company kind of a low score...What's at the top of that chart? And could you name a company, not yours, that is eclipsing others in making strides?
Gary_Hirshberg: Its called Climate Counts (Climatecounts.org)
Gary_Hirshberg: and it determines companies' commitments to taking climate change seriously based on whether they are measuring, reducing, offsetting, publicizing and supporting postivie climate legislation. In the first year's scoring, Stonyfield was among the top companies but we only received a 63. The 2008 results will be out in a couple of weeks and while I don't know the scores as they are tallied by an outside group and verified by another, I know we'll be getting a better score this year and i hope that will be true for every year going forward. The key with climate change is that it is all about continuous improvement. All companies, like all people, are polluters, but what we now need to do is to start down the path that our children and future generations need us to make.
O_Natural__Guest_: What, apart from the solar panels, is the greenest thing you did at your company? What about at home?
Gary_Hirshberg: by far the greenest thing we can do is our purchase of tens of thousands of tons of organic ingredients. This dramatically reduces the use of agricultural chemicals, helps to make family farmers more viable and of course significantly reduces our and our farmers' carbon footprints.
Gary_Hirshberg: at our Yogurt Works, I think the greenest thing we've done yet is to convert our waste yogurt processing into a biogas energy plant.
Gary_Hirshberg: reductions in packaging weight have saved thousands of tons of plastic from ever needing to be produced, and also millions of dollars.
granite_stater__Guest_: So, do you have reusable bags you use for groceries, instead of paper or plastic? I'm seeing more and more people doing that.
Gary_Hirshberg: stonyfield does provide completely reuseable bags. You can get them at Stonyfield.com.
Gary_Hirshberg: Also all of the spoons we give away in our sampling program are made 100% from recycled yogurt cups. We do this, along with toothbrush and razor handles with a really cool company called Recycline.
Gary_Hirshberg: But while recycling is of course admirable, it is not the most IMPORTANT thing we can all do. The real answer is that we need to REDUCE first, which can save millions of tons of materials from every being used. Embodied energy (and the carbon footprint that goes with it) is directly proportional to weight, so anytime you can reduce weight, you reduce energy usage and co-2 output. That is why using the lightest weight bags or other materials makes all the diiference.
go_green__Guest_: What do you think about renewable solar and wind energy? I see a lot of activity but the costs for individuals/home owners is very high, even with state and federal rebates?
Gary_Hirshberg: i was building windmills back in the late 1970's at a time when we had a national renewable energy tax credit program. When Ronald Reagan came into office, he slashed those credits and put a burgeoning new and hopeful solar and wind industry back 30 years. Had we kept those tax credits, solar and wind might be making a far bigger contribution to our national energy budget, and be far more affordable than it is today.
Gary_Hirshberg: Readers should keep in mind that oil cost $26 per barrel when GW Bush took office and it is now $115 this morning. It does not take a genius (or even a politician) to figure out that it is headed for $150 per barrel and at these prices, all things solar will be far more affordable. The bottom line is that SOlar and Wind are NOT alternatives any more.
next_president__Guest_: Post-Bush, do you think government will play a vital role in curbing carbon emissions? If so, how will that change the landscape around here?
Gary_Hirshberg: Absolutely. Whichever of the three contenders is elected, we will see a Cap and Trade system. This is not just good for the planet, it is good for our economy and good politics.
Gary_Hirshberg: What I worry about most is how to reduce the role of special interests, notably the coal, nuclear, big oil and big auto lobbies from driving our political discussions. I am no fan of subsidies and don't advocate them for organic or renewables either, but I want the bad ones to go away and I don't think that wil happen until we have someone with a backbone in that office who will say "enough handouts". That is why I support Obama...he is the only remaining candidate who has not taken ANY PAC or special interest money...
Andy__Guest_: Gary..before the Gov't requires or mandates companies to behave responsibly, where can they go to learn more about how to integrate 'sustainability' into their organi zation?
Gary_Hirshberg: At the risk of being self-serving, they should start with my book: Stirring it Up, How to Make Money and Save the World. In it, I try to shatter themyth that sustainability and commerce are in conflict and in fact demonstrate through real and solid examples in numerous companies and sectors that investments in sustainability are the profitable things to do...
Krystal_Ajay__Guest_: what goes green businessman mean
Gary_Hirshberg: Well, first of all, no one has earned that title yet, not me or anyone, unless they have dyed their skin. Many of us are in a process of trying to be green or trying to green our enterprises, but all of us humans are polluters, and we need to face that. The problem we have as a species is that we have evolved a system of economics that is based on two fundamental myths: (a) that the planet is a wholly owned subsidiary of our economy and (b) that even though our commerce does create real external consequences (like climate change, depletion of natural resources, toxification of air, soil and water, and demise of family farms, among many), because those "externalities" do not appear on our income statements or balance sheets, no one is held accountable for them. This, along with other convenient myths, like the idea that there is a place called "away" where we can send our waste, has led to our species being the only one that is at war with our planet. So a "businessperson attempting to be green" is one who is trying to "internalize the externalities" by taking the planet and our long range impacts into consideration in all of our business decisions.
mylfon__Guest_: Hi, I would like to ask whot do you think about importance of earth day
Gary_Hirshberg: I think that unless we treat every day we have on earth like it is earth day, our children are going to get a really bad deal and they are going to hate us for screwing things up so badly. But since we have been living with the illusions that we can treat the planet like a disposable diaper, the symbolism of a day where we make some noise, and particularly when we point out how incredibly easy it is to do the right thing, is probably a good thing.
O_Natural__Guest_: Oh, meant to ask -- how is O'Naturals going? Went to Acton and had a good meal at your restaurant there...Would go back more frequently if it were closer to where I live...How's that restaurant chain doing?
Gary_Hirshberg: thanks for asking. We have three O'Naturals...two in Maine and the one in Acton. They are going great...people love the food and the atmosphere, as well as the cost.
Gary_Hirshberg: But we're trying to grow the company not by opening more of our own restaurants, but by creating new franchises. So O'Naturals restaurants are now popping up in places as diverse as Orlando, Wichita, Asheville, NC, and in the headquarters of major corporations like Timberland, Microsoft, AT&T, and many hospitals and campuses. It is a very exciting time to be in the organic and natural world...
bill__Guest_: I'm building a little house in Maine and I'd love to install solar (without going totally broke). I know you rolled the dice on your huge solar complex at Stonyfield. What advice have you given normal Joes wanting to do the right thing via solar?
Gary_Hirshberg: Right now, depending on where you are situated, ie how far you are from the grid, solar hot water is likely much more affordable and effective than solar electric. But the best invetment of all is to be sure that you are implementing absolutely any and all insulation, conservatin and energy reducing steps possible BEFORE you focus on where your energy will come from. Meg and I built a super-insulated house 11 years ago, and our energy costs today have really not gone up at all, even with three teenaged yogurt eaters...
MooMobile__Guest_: Hi Gary. I was part of the Moo Crew in Northern Cali a few years back. I wanted to thank you for the experience and let you know that I still highly recommend your product both for it's nutritional value as well as it's message. Fond memories.
Gary_Hirshberg: Thanks! OUr moo crews remain our most powerful and effective marketing efforts. Stonyfield is the kind of food that if you can just get it into people's mouths, as you did, folks then find it hard to get back to what they were eating before. This summer, one of our moo crews is touring with Jack Johnson...my 15 year old daughter is incredibly jealous....
3Rs__Guest_: Are cool companies like Recycline getting the funding they need to grow?
Gary_Hirshberg: organic and environmentally friendly companies are seeing a lot more investment interest out there, but there is still a need for a LOT more capital to flow in that direction. Recycline is an excellent example...they are really a wonderful company, but Eric needs more capital from friendly and supportive and fair sources (there are plenty of offers of the other sort), and it serves us all to see that he finds it!
nuf_s_enuf__Guest_: you say walmart in organics is a good thing - i dont hear many gd things about walmart - can you tell me why?>
Gary_Hirshberg: sure,its easy. First, those of us who want the world to be more sustainable and for there to be a clean, unpolluted and healthy planet for our children need to be sure that we are not "making the perfect the enemy of the good." Walmart is not perfect, but neither is Stonyfield, O'Naturals, Peak Organic Brewing, Recycline or any of the other several hundred organic and natural companies I support. The simple fact is that organics last year accounted for around 2.8-3.5% of total US food consumption, and if we are serious about trying to rid the world of toxic pesticides, herbicides, chemical fertilizers, unhealthy ag practices, and fossil-fuel intensive agriculture, then we need to get organics up to at least 20-50% of total food, meaning it needs grow many many times larger. That is not going to happen without the big manufaturers, processors and retailers getting on baord. WHen Walmart, the largest retailer in the world, sells organics, it sends a message to consumers, but also farmers and other suppliers that this is a big opportunity, and it will help to create more supply and bring the higher cost of organic down. Retailers like Whole Foods, Walmart and all the others that are embracing organics are my heroes and they should be all of ours'.
kopaka__Guest_: love your products -- but my friends ask me whether organics is worth the $$$
Gary_Hirshberg: My view is that organic foods taste better, but that is up to them to decide. But when they ask if the cost is worth it, you should ask whether the 9 known carcinogenic compounds used in the production of many of the world's conventional crops, sucha s bananas, apples, and grains are worth it too. The reality is that our planet and our bodies are paying huge costs for not growing organic...we hava zone in the Gulf of Mexico the size of Rhode Island that has no oxygen, ie no living creatures, as a result of excessive usage of chemical nitrogen fertilizers combined with our practice of depleting our breadbasket's soils of carbon, which leads to erosion. We have rising rates of every type of cancer and while we can't say that is because we are not eating organic foods, I think the average person realizes that the excessive use of chemical compounds in our food supply, or the use of synthetic growth hormones or the excessive use of antibiotics cannot be good for us. And finally, most conventional crops are being subsidized by us tax payers, so we're paying for these practices in other ways than at the cash register. I am not advocating for organic crop subsidies, but I think it is time to end subsidies of ag practices that are polluting our bodies and our planet.
BigCorp__Guest_: Why are the multinational consumer brands not embracing 'green' like SFY, B& J, Timberalnd etc. .
Gary_Hirshberg: Actually major players are embracing "green" in a big way these days. Companies like Dupont, GE and others are saving billions through conservation investments. The big challenge is the auto makers, who have not yet figured out that oil will soon be at $125-150 per barrel and their monster cars are going to be dinosaurs.
kopaka__Guest_: to really have an impact that we need on organics, climate action -- all that -- we need to have more people involved than just enviros. How do we do that?
Gary_Hirshberg: again, at the risk of sounding like i am tooting my horn, I encourage you to pick up my book or the audio tape for you will find an extensive stream of examples about how the companies who invest today in reducing thgeir climate footprints will save lots of money and build consumer loyalty which will help them to save on advertising costs. I deeply beleive that the answer to building a saner relationship with our planet lies in showing that it is more profitable, ie in our self-interest to do that. And fortunately with oil at $115 per barrel, it is incredibly easy to make that case.
Danigo__Guest_: I saw your book in a local store -- I'm not in business, but I'm interested in your company cuz it;s local. What would I get out of reading it?
Gary_Hirshberg: The book is written for two audiences, businesses and all of us. The simple fact is that business puts out products that consumers want, and when we shop, we are actually voting for those products...ie for local, organic, sustainable, less packaging, etc. I deeply beleive int he "power of one" to make a difference. My old friend Anita Roddick said it beautifully - anyone who thinks they are too small to make a difference, has never been in bed with a mosquito - so the book is intended to give you and me and all of us some encouragement to shop conscientously, checkout what companies are really doing trhough services like ClimateCounts.org, drop emails to companies, or fill out comment cards or just make your preferences known. Corporations spend billions of $$$ to tally our votes....
CarmMark__Guest_: Your Stonyfield Products -- it's great they're available locally, and not just in natural fodo stores. Any really hot sellers?
Gary_Hirshberg: check out two new products..our Oikos Greek Yogurt, which is the only organic greek yogurt out there and incredibly delicious and also our YoCalcium or YoMommy yogurts which are yummy and have fabulous nutritious benefits...
hampster2010__Guest_: You're one of my favorite Hampshire grads!
Gary_Hirshberg: i loved Hampshire, and will actually be speaking at this year's Commencement...
recycling_guest__Guest_: A lot of companies are now promoting themselves as green. How can I tell the companies that really mean it versus the ones who are using it as a marketing ploy?
Gary_Hirshberg: go to ClimateCounts.org for starters...
next_president__Guest_: Another economic question: what do you think stands in the way of the Boston area becoming a national hub for solar and efficiency energy technologies?
Gary_Hirshberg: nothing. ANd the governor or mayor who figures that out is going to become a national hero if not legend...
Gary_Hirshberg: Sorry folks, have to go make the yogurt...thanks for tuning in!
Gary_Hirshberg: Gary