Hi,

I would love a copy of the mini-magic column,

Thanks!

Gail

Could you please also remind parents to remove the child from the area (store, restaurant, office, etc.) during the tantrum. A child having a tantrum is very stressful for others and is positively contagious to other children. I've had to step over a screaming child on the floor in the aisle of the supermarket while the parents ignored them. While I think ignoring a child while they have their meltdown may be a good idea, I don't think it's reasonable to ask others to do that.

Removing the child from the area will give the child a nice way to exert control over the parent, and lead to more tantrums. My daughter decided to have a tantrum in the park exactly once. Same for the supermarket. One time of me just walking off and ignoring her entirely had resulted in many, many trips to the store and the park without any further tantrums. Other behaviors we were "nice" about have led to her pushing and prodding the boundaries, which is truly annoying to all those involved within earshot.

So if you are disturbed by the yelling child, take heart that it's not yours and continue your shopping, please. I'm not exactly thrilled about being "that guy", either.

And Please, Please, Please, keep the kids out of restaurants until they're old enough have some chance of behaving! There's nothing worse than crying, annoying, disrespectful kids carrying on while we're trying to enjoy our meals.

I totally disagree with this statement "Forget time-out. She's too young. She's also too young for too much explaining" -- a 3 y/o is not too young for time-out or explaining. My 2 1/2 yr definately understands time outs and actually appreciates an explanation. It can be as short as "we wear our seatbelts in the car to be safe". Some explanations have ended with our daughter saying "oh, ok" insted of continuing her melt down.

We've tried time outs, talking with her, explaining things, but it's not working

bwhahahahaha---who the heck tries to REASON with a 3 yr old?!!!!
I can see time outs--as in, go in your room until you figure out that I AM in charge-not you.

Oh heavens, I have to tell my husband about this one....hahahahaha...

So, in effect, the child throws a tantrum and learns that afterward he/she gets soothing attention from a parent. A recipe for manipulative behavior... Limits need to be set and consequences made clear - and that includes the throwing of tantrums.

I disagree that time-outs don't work. I have a 3 year old (despite what they say about the terrible-twos, 3 is more challenging) and if she tries to hit me or becomes belligerent, I put her in a time-out. After 60-90 seconds she is normally calm enough to talk. Then we discuss what is upsetting her.

i absolutely disagree that 3 is too young. my 2 1/2 year old won't let us drive away until my wife and I buckle our seat belts. "seat belts, seat belts". time outs are recommended to be 1min per age.

I suggest valium. It works wonders.

Oh my goodness. No wonder why there are a bunch of 18/19 yr olds who don't know how to make jobs work out.
Why are you all trying to discuss and explain your parenting "skills" to 3 year olds?

Your job IS NOT to be their friend--it is to BE THEIR parent. Stop trying to make them feel all good when they are misbehaving and BE the authoritarian. Trust me, they will love you more for it later. I am not saying beat them-but when you are mad at them-THEY need to know it. When they are out of line--THEY NEED TO know it.
Geez people. Did you EVEN think of this stuff when you decided to have children?

are you kidding me?? A 3 year old controling an adult. This sickens me. Get a grip, discipline that kid and take control. "tyime out" is a joke. Punishment is needed, take something away adn put that kid in a corner, NO toys, NO play, NO TV or videos. Youa re the adult - to let that brat hit an adult?? Absolutly crazy!!!!!!!!!
Get real

Trying to reason with a 3 year old is like talking to the wall. No wonder the kids now a days are raving lunatics. Start preparing them for the real world, when you don't get what ever you want when you want. Buy the way, the child is 3. Treat him/her like a 3 year old and act like the adult you are suppose to be.

Sorry J, but walking away from your child having a tantrum may work for you (and I get that, I really do), but it doesn't work for the rest of us. It imposes your child's tantrum on us and our kids - who copy the behavior. It makes sure the kid gets attention (or not) from others when they don't get it from you - which means we have to parent with you. Dragging the kid out to the parking lot or restroom and then ignoring or disciplining them is appropriate. As long as you do it in a controlled manner - I think when children are losing control, adults have to absolutely keep theirs. While I recognize that parenting is a shared responsibility, I think it is a mistake to force strangers to deal with your parenting decisions in this way.

"put that kid in a corner, NO toys, NO play, NO TV or videos"

That's what "time out" is.

Note - always have a thin small blanket and kind of throw it on the child in a tantrum - she/he will kick most of it off but will use energy doing this and voila - the blanket is soft - secure - warm - the cries and screams diminish and you pick up child and blanket and continue w life - tried and true after 6 children

Thank you for not recommending time outs!! I think this advice is great.

I also recommend reading Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Cohn, and Kids, Parents, and Power Struggles: Winning for a Lifetime by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka.

Good luck!

Sam, as far as I know, being put in the corner is a time out.
Anyways, I don't think anyone is saying that we need to rationalize with young children, I think they are saying children need to know why we do things. For instance, you tell them you need to wear your coat because its cold. Or you ended up in the corner because you threw a tantrum and wouldn't wear your coat. Thats the type of explaining I think we are talking about. You know regular old raising kids in a natural way. When did it get so hard to raise kids? When everyone started telling you how.

I agree completely with Barbara. If you want to raise fearful children then keep on doing what you are doing. But mutual respect can be taught at this age. Time outs at this age, while they work, the child does not understand why they are being left alone and outcasted. Be firm with your limits and natural consquences- such as no seat belt means we will be late for gymnastics and miss the trampoline, etc. It is our job to teach or kids not rule over them with an iron fist.
You are still maintaining control, just allowing her/him to have some too- again teaching!

1. Lots of psych-babble going on here!
2. Maybe kids shdn't be at No.9 Park for restaurants, but there are lots of kid friendly restaurants that they can go to; if you go to a kid friendly restaurant and don't like the fussing, it is your own fault for going. Kid friendly is defined as having a children's menu & giving out crayons. Examples include Macaroni Grill and Fridays.
3. When it comes to discipline, a combination of time-outs and spanking has worked for 3.5 year old. However, a tantrum is a different state altogether. My wife and I found that the only thing that we could do was put him in the room, tell him to cry as much as he needs to but stay in the room, and that he could come out once he was done. We had tantrums going on just about every other day. Putting the boy in his room worked like a charm.

I think they are saying children need to know why we do things
No, no they don't. They need to know what they did was unacceptable and that because it was unacceptable they have to face the consequences of their actions or inactions.
Erin: I politely disagree with you. Parents need to stop living in this world of "oh, I am going to be my kid's friend" ideology. They need direction-they are CHILDREN for heavens' sake--I am not suggesting to NOT hug and love your child--I am just saying that WHEN they are misbehaving-they NEED to know who the BOSS is-and that is the PARENT. No apologies for being mean, no explaination--kids are smart-they will figure out that IF they throw a fit THEN there will be consequences and learn NOT do that. We need to stop robbing our children of BASIC action/reaction cognative thinking.
I was never friends with my parents-until I was an adult-and even then it was (and is) with the utmost respect that THEY are my parents.
BTW: My parents successfully raised 5 of us who are all succesful, well adjusted productive members of society. There was no coddling in our family. You just KNEW that our parents loved us. You also knew when you had crossed the line...

Hi,
I use time outs with my three year old and it works really well, along with a combination of other consequences(loss of privileges , fun activities and being taken out of a store, which he hates) He knows what to expect from me when he behaves and when he doesn't. We do have the occasional tantrum, but its pretty minor and its over in minutes. You have to find what works and go with it. And you have to say NO! Too many parents are afraid to say no and you end up with kids who feel they are entitled to everything and appreciate nothing. Take your kids to appropriate restaurants because how else are they going to learn to behave in one if they never go to one? Just love your kids, but teach them that their are consequences for your behavior, positive or negative.

Strongly disagree with at least part of what many here are writing, though I am sure it works for you all. My children (5 and 3) crave to know why they cannot do something. Is it unsafe, disrespectful, or just annoying? There are different levels of consequences for different levels of behavior and they need this information. When something is unsafe, I tell them "stop now, that is unsafe", and they know I have zero tolerance for that kind of behavior, and they will have a time out immediately if they continue. I have no problem once they stop explaining why it was unsafe, and sometimes I find that with that knowledge they police themselves and their friends. For example, they tell us to stop the car if they are not belted in because they understand that it is unsafe to drive without a seatbelt. It is not just a rule I imposed on them. How else can I ever hope to have them behave in my absence? Fear (alone) that they will be punished may work to a certain age, but not forever.

I believe that we are better teaching our children how to think so that they can think in the real world rather than just setting up rules which are by their very definition arbitrary unless we explain them. Call this coddling or any other derogatory word that people chose, but it is the parenting style I prefer. Yes, I am the BOSS, and many times I have uttered the words "because I said so that is why", but this is my method of last resort and rarely used. Then again, maybe my kids are easier than others, who knows...every situation and every kid is different.

When I threw a tantrum in a public place as a child, my mother would bring me out to the car, put me in, close the door, and go stand behind the car so I couldn't see her. When I stopped screaming and crying, she'd open the door, and ask if i was ready to be good or if I needed to stay in the car. I learned quickly that tantrums did not work.

Everything that Barbara wrote jives with a course I am taking on how to deal with challenging children. Some children would be terrified if a parent walked away from them in a supermarket, and others would realize that a powerful limit is being set. Some children can use a time out to self soothe. Other children don't understand why they are in a time out, and as soon as they are released from it, the behavior that got them there is repeated. They are thrown in another time out, and the cycle continues. Many parents misuse time outs as punishment when their original purpose is to give children a quiet space to calm themselves. Each child is different. I'm learning that parenting does not adhere to a one-size-fits-all model.

Ritan1 --

When I walk away from my daughter when she's having a tantrum, it takes her about 15 seconds to realize the behavior is going to be absolutely unproductive in getting her what she wants. No one else runs in to "parent". Keep in mind that I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to do this in almost four years of her life, so I don't think I'm imposing myself on society by behaving in this fashion.

I see other parents trying to control their children using talking, negotiation, bribes, buying them things, etc -- and all those paths lead to bigger problems, as learn that they can act poorly and get a toy or a cookie. Children need to know without a doubt that there are certain behaviors that will not be tolerated under ANY circumstances, so I send a clear message that there is NO negotiaion for certain behaviors -- they are just unacceptable.

With one of our children the "ignoring in the middle of the store" worked great, with our second child we had to switch to complete removal from the situation when inappropriate behavior occurred. Either way there were immediate consequences for unacceptable behavior. No "when we get home you can't have....."
One thing that I had to learn was that sometimes I set myself and the kids up for failure. Example.... going shopping too close to nap time, not having a snack with some complex carbohydrates or protein with me (for me and them), trying to fit too many errands in one trip....

I'm helping to raise my 3 year old step-daughter. Her mother, my fiance, has sole custody, but the father has, until now, been in her life, when he chooses to. This is not a good situation, and has made raising her difficult. Her father wants to be "the nice parent" as he says, so he sets no rules or boundaries at all. When we get her back on a Sunday night, she's nearly uncontrollable. But after a day or 2 with us, she remembers that we have rules. She challenges us constantly, her favorite word is no, and she takes frequent tantrums. Mind you, this only happens at home, she has never done this in a restaurant or store. But here's the thing...I'm tough on her. Very tough. No 3 year old is going to tell me what is or isn't going to happen. I was spanked as a child, and have no problem with spanking, except this is not my child, and spanking her could cause legal problems, so that's not an option. She spends a lot of time in the corner, or has most of her toys taken away. Or if she throws a fit at the dinner table, she has her food taken away. All of these methods require only a few minutes before I ask "are you ready to..." do whatever I had asked her to. To which she responds very softly "yes" and then she looks at me and says "sorry DaddySteve" . Yes, I'm very tough on her, but here's what I see...this child loves me. I mean LOVES me. She came up with "DaddySteve" all on her own. She sits with me on the couch as soon as I sit down. She insists on me coming in to say goodnight before she goes to sleep. When I get home she's happier to see me than the dog is. This little girl absolutely LOVES me. I do not treat her like a little adult, I do not reason with her. I set rules, and if she doesn't live by them, there are consequences. If I ask her to pick up her toys, and she says no, she gets a 5 count, then it's to the corner. That's it. No choices, no more chances. And after about 2 minutes in the corner, she stops crying, and picks up her toys. 5 minutes later, she's jumping on my lap. And her father? The one with no rules?...she calls him Justin, not daddy. He hasn't seen her in 2 weeks, and she hasn't asked for him once.