Brune: No such thing as clean coal

By David Beard, Globe Staff

Michael Brune, executive director of Rainforest Action Network, stopped by the office Monday afternoon for tea, comments on the bailout, and answers to questions about his new book, "Coming Clean: Breaking America's Addiction To Oil and Coal'' (Sierra Club Books). The Yankees fan found himself rooting for the first time Sunday night for the Red Sox, mainly hoping in vain that a Sox victory would have meant more people in the audience for a lecture Monday night at Boston University. Despite what would be a day's delay in Sox joy, he had an upbeat demeanor throughout the chat. Here are snippets:

Q. Do we need high prices for freedom from oil? Are we too undisciplined as a people to save unless gas is $4 or $5 a gallon?

A. Hopefully not. Maybe we've learned our lesson with the third oil shock. Maybe we can reinvest in mass transportation, even if we're not under duress.

Q. Does that mean we should let our cars go dry and drop dead, that we should leave them on the side of the road and walk away?

A. I drive a Prius, but there's a Union of Concerned Scientists report that says if we made just small, first-generation changes, we could save as much oil as we import from the Persian Gulf nations. ... We can break our addiction. What we need is political will, not technical improvements.

Q. What will be the effect of the bailout on making us a more energy independent and sustainable nation?

A. There are no reasons the bailout could help. The cost of coal is high and rising higher. So is the price of building coal plants. But the cost of wind and solar is getting cheaper. ... The second thing: there will be further investments into green power and electricity to, as Tom Friedman puts it, green the bailout.

Q. There are so many ''green'' books out there now. Why'd you write "Coming Clean''?

A. I think to a large point, the environmental movement has failed in giving people tangible or specific or strategic things to do. ... To get clean energy, we need a clean government. One chapter in this book dealt with a separation of oil and state, removing the billions in supports for the oil and coal industries.

Q. You say the pre-bailout subidy for oil and coal producers in our nation's budget was $49 billion. You don't think we should spend a penny on outdated, polluting industries. How could we better spend that money?

A. Two ideas: For $8 billion, we could convert all existing hybrids -- about 1 million of them -- to electric plug-ins that could get 100 miles per gallon. For $9 billion, we could provide every kid under age 18 with health insurance.

Q. Clean coal is a big debate issue, with Republican Sarah Palin going after Joe Biden by saying he doesn't believe in it and Biden responding he's been supporting efforts toward clean coal for 25 years. Who's right? Are Biden and Barack Obama masquerading their support for this?

A. I don't think Barack Obama and Joe Biden are being disingenuous. I think that Obama and to a lesser extent Biden want to believe that coal can be clean. But it's not a matter of public debate. There is no such thing as clean coal. There is no plant under way that can trap the (greenhouse) gases (emitted by coal), for example.