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The bachelor party

Posted by Meredith Goldstein  June 11, 2009 08:32 AM

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Private dancers. Dancers for money.

A: I've got a question about strippers! My boyfriend of three years is going to be the co-best man at his best friend's wedding, so of course he's responsible for planning the bachelor party. While my boyfriend isn't a big stripper guy (not that he doesn't like them), his friend LOVES strippers.

The groom-to-be now wants to get a party bus to take them to Foxwoods (from Boston) and hire a stripper to go with them! I have seen a stripper make a 'house-call' up-close-and-personal, and I came away from that thinking that there is no difference between a stripper and a prostitute.

I personally don't agree with the idea that a bachelor party is a man's last chance for fun -- if he's that worried about being with her for the rest of his life, maybe he should be rethinking the whole thing. I also don't think that women should feel like they have to be OK with their boyfriends or husbands being in the same room/bus with a naked woman who is literally willing to do anything for them for a price. I'm not OK with it, just like I wouldn't be OK with my boyfriend hanging out with a naked woman he wasn't paying for.

I want to ask my boyfriend not to go if this is what the party is going to be like, or to just plan something stripper-less. His co-best man's wife is expecting their first child, and I know she's not going to be happy with her husband on a bus with a stripper either. I also know that the bride-to-be isn't delighted with these plans. But there's a feeling that we have to just live with it because they're men and this is what they do.

It seems like all of this - strippers, bachelor parties, the overwhelming number of naked women in ads, movies, TV -- is socially accepted because it's always been a "man's world." I'm just wondering if it still is. Am I overreacting, or do all women feel this way? And am I the only one who wants to put a blanket over the woman doing the stripping and tell her she doesn't have to do this anymore?

-- Not a stripper, Derry, NH

A: NAS, first thing's first: I do not think a stripper is the same thing as a prostitute (there’s one big difference). But I do understand why the stripper experience rubs you the wrong way. The whole “last night of freedom” thing has always made me roll my eyes. It’s great for movies, but offensive and childish in reality. Makes me think it's not only a man's world, but a very stupid man's world.

Want to know what else I think is stupid in reality? Spending more than $500 on a dress you wear once. Or not seeing the person you’re going to marry before you marry them because you think it will be bad luck. Or having a wedding shower where you play weird lady games and drink tea.

I hate weird lady games.

American weddings involve many traditions. Some are more objectionable than others. We do things we’d never do in real life to please parents or friends we haven’t seen in years. In this case, your boyfriend is granting the wish of his close friend, even though it is a stupid, stupid, wish. You don’t have to love it, but you do have to accept that your boyfriend signed up for this duty. That’s what people in a wedding party do. They do things they wouldn’t necessarily do for themselves for someone else.

All you can do is tell your boyfriend to behave and explain that the whole thing makes you uncomfortable. If the time ever comes for him to have a bachelor party before marrying you, hopefully he’ll have a good memory. And hopefully he won’t be thinking of it as a “last night of freedom.”

Readers? I know you have some opinions. Share here. Read yesterday's chat here. Twitter-stein here.

-- Meredith

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212 comments so far...
  1. a few things from a man's perspective:
    1) keep the concerns of the bride to be with her future husband out of the equation - it has nothing to do with your relationship with your boyfriend
    2) bachelor parties are rituals - and any guy that is going to be faithful to you will not cross the line when attending one.
    3) any guy that isn't going to be faithful to you doesn't need a bachelor party to make that happen
    4) Guy's don't view the bachelor party as a "last night of fun". I really believe that is a term made up by a woman, not a man. No guy has one of these nights with that in mind. It is more of a celebration with your best guys for a chance to act wild and create some funny moments between each other. If a guy crosses a line at one of these parties, he would have anyways in some other medium, or at another time.
    5) Try focusing on what you are going to do with your boyfriend when he returns from the party. Ask him if he had fun, and have planned a special night for the two of you - I guarantee it goes over extremely well.

    This is a chance to strengthen your relationship, not hurt it....try acting on the positive instead of worrying about a potential negative, and you may be surprised how much stronger your relationship becomes...

    Posted by spaceman June 11, 09 09:11 AM
  1. We all pretty much agree, I think, that if a man is not paying a woman to be naked, giving him private lap dances it is not okay: if he and a woman at work go to a hotel on their luch date, she strips for him, and everything but have sex with him, we would say he is out of line and the wife at home does not have to be okay with it.

    But when money changes hands, we all say "boys will be boys" and scold and bash a woman who is uncomfortable with it.

    Why is that, exactly? Is sex with someone else okay just because money changes hands? I doubt people agree with that. So it is not the money that makes a difference.

    Because the boys like it? Hey, many would like to have non-monogamous marriages, too, but we don't say okay just because some guys like it. Or is it because we think she is a "professional" and there would be no sex and no touching? Well, some strippers do actually cross that line, especially the ones who hire themselves out for private parties (I had a non-boyfriend male friend recount a bachelor party experience with a hired private stripper that involved manual grilled cheeses, if you catch what I mean). And I gotta say, that grinding naked against a man seems an awful lot like touching to me anyway, with or without anything else.

    So is it because we say it's one night and he doesn't know her, and won't see her again? Right -- just like Elliot Spitzer: he "saw" his friend the escort many times. And spouses whose partners had one night stands aren't okay with it just because "he hardly knew her and it was only a night."

    I expect to get bashed for being uptight, etc., by men who love strippers and women who want men to think they are cool for liking strippers too. I am tempted to go off here and explain why I am not, and 'prove' it to you -- but I won't, because rejecting the stripper idea should not have to come with such defenses. A lot of people like to make women who don't like/agree with stripping feel bad, as if something is wrong with us. So I guess, go for it. But I do not agree. I agree with the LW that it is distasteful. It is not about "not trusting my man" -- I trust him. That does not turn naked shows into something acceptable just because I know he would not accept sex or grilled cheeses from her. I will say it again: for me, dancing naked and grinding does not become fine just because money changes hands. If it would not be okay for him to do it with a co-worker, then in my book, it isn't okay to do it with a stranger.

    Posted by jlen June 11, 09 09:21 AM
  1. plan your own bachelorette party ?

    Posted by carole bouquet June 11, 09 09:22 AM
  1. if that's a "wedding in the real world" then i'm quite happy to ignore reality. this seems like a trick someone would play on you--not an actual suggestion

    Posted by N05 June 11, 09 09:25 AM
  1. Let"bf doesnot need any permission from you.my gf doesn't need my permission to do a thing. If she wants to have a bachelorette party filled with strippers, I have no objection

    Posted by non regret rien June 11, 09 09:29 AM
  1. it's kind of a man's-night-out break from all the tulle, vow writing, in-laws & 50 rolls of twinkle lights he has in the back of his truck :). LOL!

    Posted by estella warren June 11, 09 09:31 AM
  1. OK I’m going to skip the usually sarcastic comments and somewhat agree with you here.... I’m at the age where my friends are starting to get married. The bachelor party has been a long standing ‘last party’ before the ball and chain… Many of these bachelor party’s cross the line of respect for ones ‘soon- to- be wife’ or even the best man’s girlfriend. I have friends who have had huge bachelor parties and friends who have said NO strippers. (Out of respect for their lady) If my fiance said no strippers i would respect that 100%. Some men don't. Like Meredith said it’s unnecessary. Explain to him how you feel and don’t prevent him from going.

    No one is going to have sex with the stripper. Plus, staring at the same naked girl for an hour gets old. It is what it is.

    Posted by yep June 11, 09 09:34 AM
  1. NAS, is bp gone too far? also there is no difference between a stripper and a prostitute as you are paying a woman for these stripping constitutes as paying a prostitute. both women performing sexual acts. But don't you think that a naked woman bouncing on a man for money is a sexual act too.theres three sides to every story: yours, thiers and the truth unless others add extra extra zing.
    You can't measure your love by the depth of your pain or can you - Keb Mo

    Posted by deneuve June 11, 09 09:37 AM
  1. Hey, woman do much worse than men at these kind of things, because they allow women to get away with much more.Just do a Google search on "CFNM" and you'll see what I mean.I'd like to ask, how many women have attended events like this?

    Posted by edith piaf June 11, 09 09:38 AM
  1. As a man I grew up used to the bachelor party idea, but never liked it. Luckily I've developed stronger moral character. This is absolutely horid. Wonder why there is a 50% divorce rate? Maybe because we allow strippers in our sight 24 hours before a wedding, meant for LIFE. Something like 75% of strippers have been physically abused by men (granted, most women probably have to some extent).

    Would you be ok with your mom, sister, daughter or WIFE being a stripper? Most likely not.

    Then it is not ok to have one. The moral filth we alow ourselves to exist in because it has become our culture is disgusting.

    That being said, US freedom is the best.

    Posted by swfoutsida June 11, 09 09:56 AM
  1. My first thought while reading this letter was total disgust and total agreement with the writer. If it were me, I wouldn't want my boyfriend to go either. However, I think Meredith really put it into perspective - except for one thing: all the other wedding traditions, e.g,. weird lady games, are not threatening to men or to the relationships of others. But, it doesn't have to affect your relationship....if you trust your boyfriend and let him know how you feel, hopefully, it won't happen when he's the groom-to-be.

    Oh, and I also agree that strippers can be very similar to prostitutes...they even make prostitutes look like angels sometimes...Good luck.

    Posted by alipie June 11, 09 10:10 AM
  1. I was a bridesmaid to a good friend a few years ago, she loves ( male) strippers, I hate them, but it wasn't my wedding and we hired one for her. On top of that, to be a good sport, I engaged in the fun b/c most of the bachelorette party was hiding in the kitchen. I didn't enjoy Mr. tan, hairless, overly manicured guy rubbing up on me, but I knew my friend would get a kick out of it, and I was in the wedding party for her.

    Therefore, I know it's creepy and it sucks but if that's what the groom wants, your bf is only providing him the best possible bachelor party that he thinks the groom wants. I don't buy into the whole " last night of freedom" thing either. I do also know that some strippers are also prostitutese.

    Tell your bf that it makes you uncomfortable, but it kind of needs to end there. I would be repulsed as well

    Posted by Anonymous June 11, 09 10:13 AM
  1. I was a bridesmaid to a good friend a few years ago, she loves ( male) strippers, I hate them, but it wasn't my wedding and we hired one for her. On top of that, to be a good sport, I engaged in the fun b/c most of the bachelorette party was hiding in the kitchen. I didn't enjoy Mr. tan, hairless, overly manicured guy rubbing up on me, but I knew my friend would get a kick out of it, and I was in the wedding party for her.

    Therefore, I know it's creepy and it sucks but if that's what the groom wants, your bf is only providing him the best possible bachelor party that he thinks the groom wants. I don't buy into the whole " last night of freedom" thing either. I do also know that some strippers are also prostitutese.

    Tell your bf that it makes you uncomfortable, but it kind of needs to end there. I would be repulsed as well but you kind of have to live with it. My bf doesn't " love" strippers either but he's certainly been to bachelor parties, and strip clubs with the guys. Thankfully, for our bachelor/bachelorette party he wants to have a day out with our respective wedding parties and then have us all meet for a big dinner, one in which everyone has their clothes on!
    Be patient, good luck!

    Posted by thedemocraddict June 11, 09 10:15 AM
  1. meredith, if you don't think a stripper who makes house-calls and a prostitute are any different, then you obviously don't know much about strippers who make house-calls.

    Posted by luckee June 11, 09 10:20 AM
  1. I'm going to be harsh because this letter writer annoyed me. First, I think you're right Meredith -- women do weird things to celebrate weddings, just like men. I'm sure plenty of our sex has hired a male stripper for a similar event. And that it's a tradition for us to make bridal gowns made of toilet paper is a slap in the face of feminism, and also a waste of paper.

    News flash NAS -- it's not a "man's world" anymore unless you're stuck in some 19th century Victorian novel time loop. It's a "sex sells" world, and you buy into it just as much as the next person. I am sure you're just dying to see that new Armani ad featuring David Beckham in his knickers. Ha, you'll probably be first to run out and buy your boyfriend these new undies in a vain attempt to convince yourself that he is almost as hot as D-Beck (nobody is).

    Upon first hearing from M-Gold that she was going to publish your letter, I thought you were the fiance, in which case I might have been more forgiving, but not much. I can understand a bride not wanting to pick off stripper glitter from her groom's cheeks (face cheeks, I mean) the next day. But you're the "co-best man's" (talk about weird traditions -- who ever heard of a "co-best man"?) girlfriend! This isn't about you. You have no business getting involved, and if you tell your boyfriend/co-best man not to go, you'll just look like a controlling jerk.

    Step away, NAS. The night of the batchelor party, go play weird lady games, paint your nails a garish pink and enjoy your freedom.

    Posted by Sally June 11, 09 10:26 AM
  1. “And am I the only one who wants to put a blanket over the woman doing the stripping and tell her she doesn't have to do this anymore?”

    Dear Stripless:
    See what happens when you pass Title IX? You have to let the ladies compete just like the guys. However, I don’t think we’ll ever see Billy Jean King on The Bang Bus. First, there’s no reason to have a stripper on the bus unless she’s going to be “rolling cigars” for the boys. Private strippers, as opposed to those in a strip club, are more likely to accept Bucks for S#cks, Dough for Blo# or Cs for Cheese. Lap dances cost extra, but are like virtual dry humping. Can you imagine some guys like to chat with the lapper first? I can only assume it's to gauge whether or not to bring her home to meet mom and dad. I agree…If the last bastion of being single is the need to have sex with someone other than your wife/husband to be, then the time is not right. And if the groomsmen can’t have a good time without hiring hookers, then your dealing with followers, not leaders. Strip clubs are generally harmless except for the guys who spend their money like it’s Powerball; hoping to cash in on some big prize. Some are lonely and addicted; others, simply voyeuristic. In ME there’s no ‘Below Show’, in NH the Old Man in the Mountain is flaccid and in MA they let it all hang out…but there’s a Sneeze Guard (presumably for the flying Chlamydia). But if the boys are selling the experience to you as an opportunity to view fine art; I expect, in their hearts, they want to steal the painting. At some point it’s grow-up time.

    Posted by valentino June 11, 09 10:35 AM
  1. I have to say, jlen and spaceman really hit the nail on the head here...they captured what I would've liked to say so please add that to my comment (# 11).

    I especially appreciate jlen's comments b/c society also said "boys will be boys" when young boys did things that now puts them in the category of an adolescent sex offender. I should know - I wrote a dissertation about it. Just b/c it's ok by society's current standards doesn't make it right.

    Posted by alipie June 11, 09 10:36 AM
  1. I have to say, jlen and spaceman really hit the nail on the head here...they captured what I would've liked to say so please add that to my comment (# 11).

    I especially appreciate jlen's comments b/c society also said "boys will be boys" when young boys did things that now puts them in the category of an adolescent sex offender. I should know - I wrote a dissertation about it. Just b/c it's ok by society's current standards doesn't make it right.

    Posted by alipie June 11, 09 10:38 AM
  1. I couldn't agree more with everything that you wrote. I disagree with the response that Meredith wrote, the other wedding traditions are simply not the same as paying a stranger to get naked for you...all in the name of your commitment to your soon-to-be spouse???

    Posted by Heidi Clare June 11, 09 10:39 AM
  1. Post # 12, you felt the need to allow yourself to be subjected to unwanted sexual contact that made you extremely uncomfortable because you felt you owed it to your friend because she decided to get married? Wow, with friends like that...

    Anyway, I've always wondered why excessive bachelor/bachelorette party behavior that would otherwise be considered "cheating" suddenly ISN'T cheating because it's all in "fun." All it is, when it comes right down to it, is a lack of respect for the spouse to be and the commitment they've ALREADY made to each other. In other words, cheating. And I agree that if you are so unsettled that you need a ritualistic final "romp" (which you should have had PLENTY of before developing your relationship to BEGIN with) that maybe you shouldn't get married. If you really feel it's all over after the wedding, then please DON'T get married! Because if you love your spouse to be, yes, you SHOULD be happy and not make a joke of it.

    Posted by Me June 11, 09 10:44 AM
  1. LW, I think you're a little stuck at this point when it comes to the bachelor party, but it's a great opportunity to explain your discomfort to your boyfriend. Your boyfriend has been chosen by his friend to play a very important role in his wedding (and, I guess, his life), and I don't think there is a lot of harm in planning the kind of bachelor party his friend wants to have. You wouldn't want your maid of honor dictating how your bachelorette party or wedding preparations should go - you'd pick her based on your friendship and her understanding of you! Personally, I think strippers are gross and the current incarnation of bachelor parties is pretty arbitrary and dumb. But ,that's just me, and who am I to judge?

    But, when it comes to your own relationship and your own wedding, you have every right to explain your feelings about bachelor parties. I'd be pretty pissed if, in the days before my wedding, all my future husband could think of was a chance to get all up on somebody else. It just doesn't seem right to me - a fiance (and his friends) should understand that and respect the relationship. That being said, it's never a bad idea to take a little of that stripper mentality and spice up the love life - with his own girlfriend, he can look AND touch!

    Posted by Reader June 11, 09 10:45 AM
  1. Ugh. That's all I have to say about the letter writer. I'm a woman and don't get myself in a tizzy over bachelor parties or strippers. I actually was the designated driver one night so my boyfriend and his friends could go to a strip club. I dropped them off, met a girlfriend for dinner and a movie and then picked them up. At the end of the night, he's coming home to me and not some stripper. I agree with the comment that a guy isn't going to do anything at a bachelor party that he wouldn't do in "real life." If he's going to cheat on you, he'll do it regardless of where he is and who's around.

    Lighten up. Be secure in yourself qand your relationship and get over it. This has nothing to do with you.

    Posted by GG June 11, 09 10:46 AM
  1. I strongly urge you to tell your boyfriend that he has a choice:

    1) host the bachelor party without the preferred entertainment of the groom-to-be (i.e. no stripper), or
    2) drop out of his role as best man.

    If he has any stones and any shred of dignity, he’ll choose Option #3 which is to dump you. It’s much better that he finds out now that you’re a control freak, that you that little trust in him, that you will not respect his friendships, and that you are extremely insecure. He can then move on with his life and hopefully meet someone who doesn’t expect her boyfriend / husband to revolve his entire life around her, and someone that understands that a man seeing a woman without clothes is not evil and will not make him lose all his morals and judgment.

    Frankly, the fact that you’re that upset about nudity in “ads, movies, and TV” is comical. Almost as comical as you trying to micromanage other’s lives. Gee, you know the other co-best man’s wife is not going to be happy because she’s expecting a baby? You’re convinced that the bride-to-be is going to be upset too? That’s your business why?!?! My advice is that you worry about your own boyfriend, at least for the next week or so until he cuts you loose. After that, you can go out and look for the hen-pecked, “yes dear”, drone that you want.

    - Hoss

    p.s. anyone who defends this kind of immaturity and non-trust in a relationship is missing the point. Stop getting your undies in a bunch over the stripper and the mythology that you associate with them, and focus on the bigger issues of trust and blatant attempts to control her boyfriend like a puppy. No one in a healthy relationship would put a man in a position to choose between his girlfriend and his best friend over something as trivial as this. When it's HIS bachelor party, you can give input into what you feel comfortable with and he should take it into consideration.

    Posted by Hoss June 11, 09 10:46 AM
  1. Unfortunately there's really not much you can do in this situation. Your man and his friends' are going to do whatever is they're going to do regardless if you stomp your feet and huff + puff. Bros before ho's as the saying goes. Your boyfriend/husband/whomever needs to make the decision on HIS OWN if he can act respectfully around strippers. If he is a really nice guy and treats you very well in all other aspects, than i night out with the boys to act like a drunk idiot in honor of his best friend getting married, than i really don't think there's anything wrong with that.

    Maybe you can put some parameters on the evening (call me before you go to bed, no lap dances, cheat on me and i cut your meat and potatoes off, etc), would help alleviate your anxiety. Find out if the stripper is travelling with a bodyguard.

    I say play it as cool as possible and be the coolest girlfriend ever. Most likely, you'll end up getting a late night phone call from your man saying how much he misses you and wishes he was home with you instead of on party busy with a bunch of drunk fools and an ugly gross stipper...

    Posted by trueluv4eva June 11, 09 10:47 AM
  1. Are you engaged to your "BF"? If yes, lay down the rules now before your own wedding lest he thinks it's OK for too. If not, shut up (and go bake a pie or something).

    Posted by DudeGuyKidDudeGuy666 June 11, 09 10:51 AM
  1. The letter writer does not trust her boyfriend. She has trust issues.

    Isn't that what a bachelor party is SUPPOSED to do? To test the trust in relationships? I mean, come on, there are REASONS for these rituals.

    Posted by S June 11, 09 10:54 AM
  1. I've never commented on these but I had this exact conversation with my boyfriend last night and couldn't help weighing in. I was one of those girls who didn't have much of a problem with the idea of strippers in general. I trust my boyfriend to be faithful and a naked girl dancing around doesn't change that. (Also, and I know this makes me sound naive, but my boyfriend doesn't seem to have that much interest in it. He just goes along with what his friends do--and his friends are gross.)

    That being said, there were private strippers (yes, plural) at the bachelor party. And at some point afterwards, he started telling a story about what these girls were doing--and what they WERE willing to do for a little more money. So based on that, I disagree with Meredith that there's no difference between SOME of these private strippers and prostitutes. And I just got so completely disgusted with the entire idea of it that I instantly forbade him from ever partaking in that kind of thing again, just on principle. I don't know why--it just rubs me the wrong way.

    Another of his gross friends is gearing up to get married and I'm certain it will be more of the same. I have no idea what argument will come out of this, but I do think that I'll probably cave--because it's not his idea and I trust him. But I agree with the posters who say you have some say in it if you're the bride. I have told him in no uncertain terms that there will be NO private strippers at his bachelor party. (To be fair, I won't have any at mine either!)

    Posted by anon June 11, 09 10:54 AM
  1. Honestly, you have no right to dictate the bachelor party of a man that you aren't marrying. And as the co-best man, your boyfriend signed up to plan the bachelor party that the groom wants, and signed up to attend. Additionally, it is none of your business if the bride doesn't approve of strippers and the groom goes ahead and asks for them anyway. That is THEIR issue, not yours.
    Talk to your boyfriend about your feelings and just make sure he understands how you feel. That is the ONLY thing you can do in this situation, and simply trust that he will respect those feelings and you while he is out on the town with his buddies.

    Posted by melissa June 11, 09 10:55 AM
  1. Thank you jlen, those are my thoughts exactly. I never understood the draw of bachelor parties OR bachelorette parties. I always thought it would be funner for everyone if the guys and girls all just went out to a bar or ballgame the night before to unwind and spend time as a group of friends. That would be a hell of a lot more fun to me than doing weird lady games.

    Posted by peanut34 June 11, 09 10:56 AM
  1. My brother went to multiple strip clubs at his bachelor party (arranged by me). I went to a Red Sox game and a video arcade for my bachelor party (arranged by my brother).

    The end result: so far his marriage has lasted 20 years and mine 13 years -- with no signs of infidelity or ill effects from our bachelor parties.

    My advice; if no laws or promises are broken, don't worry about it.

    Posted by bidemytime June 11, 09 10:59 AM
  1. Yay! Hoss and I are like-minded today! I expect to see you at the LL mixer, my friend.

    Posted by Sally June 11, 09 10:59 AM
  1. I am a female, and I do not like strippers - male or female strippers. For my bachelorette party, I insisted that my friends not get me a male stripper, and they honored my wishes. However, I have gotten male strippers for some of my soon-to-be married friends because that is what they wanted, and I participated by watching through my fingers at the edge of the room. I didn't like it or enjoy it, but I did it because that's how they wanted to celebrate before going out for the night. And it did get comical at times, I must admit.

    My husband went to Foxwoods for his bachelor party, and as far as I know, no strippers were involved. However, if there were, I would have rolled my eyes, and just tried to keep myself occupied that night. I trust him enough to know that he's not going to do anything physically sexual with them - just looking. I think it's weird, almost gross, but not a huge deal. I don't think you have anything to worry about unless you already do not trust him on other levels.

    Posted by Don't like strippers June 11, 09 11:02 AM
  1. If the letter writer actually asks her boyfriend to not go to this bachelor party then she is a LOSER and should be dumped. She feels threatened by this stripper and doesn't trust that her boyfriend can't keep his hands to himself, but is disguising it as a women's rights issue. It's straight up jealousy... OVER A STRIPPER!! Let me clue all jealous women in on something... strippers are not after your boyfriends. They're after their money and that's it.

    Men are pigs and love naked women. That's just how it is and wives/girlfriends will never change that. But it doesn't mean that they can't be faithful and loving partners. When my husband goes to strip club for a bachelor party I don't care if he's getting some boobs in his face because I know he's coming home to me at the end of the night (or the weekend). I trust that he isn't cheating on me because we have a happy and trusting relationship. It sounds like the letter writer has trust or self esteem issues that she has to get over. In the meantime, she needs to let her man have his fun and do the innocently stupid things that guys do.

    As a side note, I'm sick of women who think that strippers are being exploited. Stripping is a profession. And they make pretty damn good money doing it too. Strippers can make more in a weekend than the men who go to strip clubs make in a week. Who is exploiting who here?

    Posted by rebs June 11, 09 11:02 AM
  1. Be honest about how you feel. You'll only end up bitter and resentful otherwise. There are men out there who do not behave this way. Before I was married, my husband was a best man, and he made it plain that he would not be involved in any stripper events. The same for his own bachelor party. Men don't have to act like pigs to be real men. And if your boyfriend doesn't agree with you, maybe you should be with someone else. And no, I'm not an uptight control freak; I'm a Christian who believes that men and women have dignity.

    Posted by Liz June 11, 09 11:04 AM
  1. Translation of your letter: You giving your dog...errr...boyfriend an ultimatum: "Either there's no stripper at Joey's bachelor party or you're not going. I don't care if he's your best friend and co-best man, you're my boyfriend and I can't trust you around people who take their clothes off! It's either your friends or me. You pick!"

    It's none of your business what the groom wants or what the bride to be would be happy about. Tell you boyfriend your feelings on the matter. Emphasize that you trust him, but don't make him choose between friends and you. Believe me, you won't like the outcome.

    Footnote: I absolutely love all the anti-stripper biases coming out. It's even worse than the religious grenades being lobbed around the other day. Stay on the topic, folks.

    Posted by Bob Dwyer June 11, 09 11:05 AM
  1. the Bachelor Party isn't about the last night of freedom, it's about the last time you're supposed to see another girl naked. or whatever, it doesn't matter, it's just someone else's definition of an event and the semantics debate is useless.

    what matters is that you trust your SO to not cheat on you. far better to pay a stripper to take her clothes off - where there is no emotional attachment - than cheating on your with someone he knows.

    guys want to see girls naked. get used to this.

    Posted by Ben June 11, 09 11:16 AM
  1. HE'S A LOSER!

    Posted by ibid June 11, 09 11:17 AM
  1. Rico's mind is in overdrive on this one:

    Here is what Rico thinks today:

    First Rico wants to get a couple things out of the way.

    #1 Rico agrees with Meredith on this one.
    #2 Why did your boyfriend and the "groom to be" tell all the details? Rico doesn't like cheaters and is not a fan of hiding things from loved ones but there are some things that need not be said. Rico thinks this guy of yours is a big mouth and if anything wrong happens at the party you'll know about it when he gets home so you can kick his dumb-a$$ to the curb and get the wedding stopped before it is too late...OOPS it already is too late. The whole bunch of these guys sound like a group of losers, maybe you ought to rethink the relationship?
    #3 Rico doesn't care for the stripper scene but he has been to the clubs and hired a stripper for a bachelor party in a private home and NOTHING other than stripping for $1's happened. You get the stripper from a legit club and they come with a bodyguard so nothing gets out of lne. DON'T HIRE ONE FROM CRAIGSLIST.
    #4 Finally, Rico's Bachelor party was a group of guys out for a great GREAT dinner and drinks at a top restaurant in town. Rico loves food, especially good food taht his wife likes him to eat a little less of sometimes :) That is why Rico rides and works out so much.

    Now here is what Rico thinks about your question:

    You are OVERREACTING and acting like a High School girl mad at her boyfriend for not calling every 5 minutes. Rico thinks unless you are worried for GOOD REASON then there is nothing to worry about. If there is GOOD REASON, HISTORY OF CHEATING etc...then you need to re-evaluate the relationship with this guy.

    Rico has these questions for you:

    Has your boyfriend cheated on you? GIve you reason to worry about what he is doing outside of yoru relationship? Has his "friend" cheated? What are the tendencies of this group of friends? Is it normal for them to get strippers? They hang out at those clubs? Are the drinkers? What are they like?

    The answers to these questions will tell you who/what you are dealing with so you can make a better decision. Otherwise stop whining and don't worry. Rico thinks $500+ for a dress you wear once or a $35K + wedding to celebrate one day is crazy too but there are many crazy things men and women do. Sometimes you just need to ride the wave and hope for the best. Still worried? Dump him and move on.

    Love always,


    Strip paint not clothes :)

    Sorry for the bad joke...

    Gears not Gas

    Posted by Rico June 11, 09 11:18 AM
  1. GG-
    You're a pimp.

    If the roles were reversed: Women (your woman) putting themselves in a position to be pleasured by Lou Ferrigno...The disgust would evaporate like an erection in the ocean. Get along little doggies.

    Posted by valentino June 11, 09 11:20 AM
  1. Eee, a feminist analysis from both the advice seeker and the advice giver. Very awesome.

    Prostitutes and strippers are NOT at all the same thing; if your previous experience with strippers leads you to believe they are the same thing, then something was wrong then. Strippers strip; they do not have sex with clients.

    But why we have strippers and prostitutes in the first place is pretty depressing and objectifying. And I'd be just as uncomfortable with an SO going to a strip club or a bachelor party as you are. It's a very stupid tradition anyway; it's NOT one last night of freedom. After all, if you've been in this relationship for a while, not sleeping with other people, spending time with your SO instead of friends, and so on, then the only difference between between the day before the wedding and the day after is the legal stuff.

    Oy. Anyway.

    Talk to your boyfriend. Make sure you don't use accusative language ("I hate sounding like I'm against you having fun, but it just makes me feel very _____ knowing that this is going on" instead of "If you go to this party with this stripper, you're a slimeball, and by the way, I think your friend is a sick, sick man").

    And rebs, that's bull. Strippers are routinely exploited by their employers, and they wouldn't exist, or at least not in such high numbers, if the objectification of women weren't so acceptable in our culture. Learn about the issue before you whine about how men are just LIKE that and women should just accept it. Not only is that heteronormative, but it's also ridiculously sexist and just plain inaccurate. There is nothing about men or women that MAKES us behave the way we might.

    Posted by sabend June 11, 09 11:21 AM
  1. How come neither one of you mentioned bachelorette parties with male strippers in your comments?? Is this ok???

    Anyway, I find that all of this stuff is nonsense...bottom line, it you can't trust your partner in any circumstance you shouldn't be in a relationship. I've been married 35 years and respect and trust in our friendship is what has kept us together...just my opinion...R

    Posted by RD June 11, 09 11:21 AM
  1. only read spaceman's response so far - and i think you are dead on -- great commentary -- and i'm a soon to be 51 year old female --

    Posted by Laurie June 11, 09 11:23 AM
  1. A naked woman trapped on a bus with a mob of drunk, horny men? What could possibly go wrong???

    I am very scared for that stripper.

    Posted by Sarah June 11, 09 11:23 AM
  1. "I personally don't agree with the idea that a bachelor party is a man's last chance for fun"

    GET OVER YOURSELF!!! Firstly, it is not up to you what another woman's fiancee/best man does or does not plan for a bachelor party -- and you shouldn't expect boyfriend to exclude himself from such an event. Like it or not, strippers are a tradition. Secondly, you are putting yourself at risk of becoming "that girl" to your boyfriend's buddies. You know, the one that nags and controls, the one that they all moan and groan about when they find out that you're going to show up to something. But, do him a favor, object, so that he can dump you before he wastes more time on you.

    Posted by Tibbs June 11, 09 11:24 AM
  1. I can sympathize. My fiance is going to a strip club for his bachelor party and I'm not happy about it. It's not an issue of trust or an ultimatum, it's just that I'd rather he didn't. There are lots of men who don't do these things - some of his friends aren't going to the bachelor party because of it - and I always wanted to be with someone like that. But I fell in love with a guy who is going to a strip club for his bachelor party and that's that. I try not to think about it.

    Private strippers are a different story. I think you can probably trust your bf but you might not want to hear the details of what his other friends do. Gross.

    Also, male strippers are not the equivalent of female strippers. Male strippers are campy and goofy, it's not sexual.

    PS - there's an LL mixer (#30)????

    Posted by Edna June 11, 09 11:25 AM
  1. peanut34 you make a lot of sense. everyone should just grow up and respect one another.

    Posted by jmr June 11, 09 11:27 AM
  1. What happens at a bachelor party stays at a bachelor party.
    If you don't trust your BFin this situation, then you are in for a long and paranoid life with him. If he is going to do anything stupid, he doesn't need a bachelor party to make it happen.
    Give him a kiss, tell him to have fun, and tell him when he gets home to expect his own personal strip-tease. Trust me. He'll be good.

    Posted by DrK June 11, 09 11:27 AM
  1. To jlen:
    That was one of the best arguments against strippers. I always try to explain that point of view, but I can't seem to do so as well as you did. It's not insecurity. It's really just such a ridiculous thing. The idea that when you walk into a strip club, suddenly your wedding vows mean nothing??? This just makes no sense. Why would it ever be OK for a naked woman to be sitting on my husband/boyfriend's lap? I just don't get how anyone can even make the arguement that this is OK.
    Also, i just love the girls who say they don't mind, or that they'd even go to a strip club. Yeah, you seem wicked cool.... LMFAO! I think that might be the most insecure of things. And, a

    Posted by Anonymous June 11, 09 11:29 AM
  1. Some good points above, especially how your b/f is honoring his friend's wish to have a stripper.

    Newsflash: It's not about you.

    Bottom line- you are an uptight prude, if your boyfriend has no problem with this situation and you do, this subject (nudity, man's world, women being treated as objects, etc.) is going to rear it's ugly head again at some point.

    Do you and your boyfriend a favor- end the relationship and become a nun.

    Posted by LarryMurgatroid June 11, 09 11:29 AM
  1. Who said the woman is jealous of the stripper? A bunch of commenters here are saying this. As if those of us who do not like it are threatened. Calm down, everyone. Think. I know you love it and it is fun. But it is possible not to like it and not be insecure and jealous. It is possible to think it is distasteful for moral reasons, for what it says about relationships and sex, or who knows what else. For safety reasons. For feeling bad about the women involved (women who hire themselves out to dance naked for men are not, in general, women filled with self-esteem; some are quite nice and sweet, but really get to know them and you start to feel bad). For thinking that respect for everyone involved ought to mean that paying for women should be off the table, in the person's own circle.

    But you can trivialize it and say it is about our own jealousy if it makes you feel better. You can decide it is simply that we are insecure and don't trust our partners. But I do get the very real sense that you do not actually read what the "dissenters" are saying when you do that.

    Posted by jlen June 11, 09 11:30 AM
  1. This is a tricky one. The house call stripper is ALMOST always a hooker so it sucks to be you. Atleast that's what my experience has taught me. But this is the old question of "if you don't trust your boyfriend why are you together". Also, if you try to tell a guy not to go on a bachelor party it gives him a pretty good preview of how fun the rest of your life together would be. The best thing you can do is try to be honest with your boyfriend and tell him you trust him and you hope he has a good time. Last but EXTREMELY important. What guy tells his girl that there will be a stripper on the bus with them. This guy has to know that girls talk to each other. Especially about stuff like this. He shoud be disinvited or SHOT!!

    Posted by Beantown13 June 11, 09 11:32 AM
  1. I was going to write, but then I read posts #1 and 21 really captured what I was going to say. Strippers... Big whoop. Either you trust him or you don't (sounds like you don't). That's a bigger issue than whether he goes to his party.

    Posted by Sarah June 11, 09 11:32 AM
  1. Bottom line, and good reputable stripper won't put themselves in a situation of putting themselves on a moving vehicle they can't escape. They have a driver that takes them to locations and monitors the situation. Sure, some woman will do this, but she's got to be pretty dirty and desperate.

    Stripping is mostly a choice. I'm not going to say these girls do not have issues, but stripping is profitable and generally strippers call the shots in the situation. They are empowered, using their resources (their body and their sex appeal) and are comfortable making these choices. You aren't, so you aren't stripping but that's personal preference really.

    Other than that, this is absolutely none of your business. I say that as a woman, as a newlywed, as your friend (and not as a former or current stripper if that is what you are wondering). I would have no qualms sending my husband off for this kind of weekend with the boys. I have no idea what they did at his bachelor party, I really don't care either. This is your issue, not his. He should not miss out on his friend's bachelor party because you've got self-esteem and sexual issues.

    Posted by ml2620 June 11, 09 11:33 AM
  1. MGMG = My God, Meredith Goldstein!!

    Posted by MGMG June 11, 09 11:33 AM
  1. Hoss is the boss today... Well played, I couldn't agree more. The big picture here is trust and insecurity. If you don't trust the man enough to make the right decisions while out with his boys and a woman who undresses for a living, then you really shouldn't be with the guy in the first place. However, if you're just "uncomfortable" with the situation based on insecurities about yourself and your relationship, then he shouldn't be wasting his time with you either. Loosen up. If he makes a poor decision, its on him and he's not worth your time.

    Posted by The Lost Realist June 11, 09 11:35 AM
  1. There is so much in this letter I almost don't know where to start. Let's start with the obvious, a stripper and a prostitute are not the same. Although you may find it repulsive that a woman would take her clothes off for money, it does not mean she is a prostitute. Next, and I have to ask this based on your letter, do you trust your boyfriend at all? Are you really afraid that he will have sex with this stripper? That's really sad.
    A bachelor party is more of a celebration then a "last night of freedom" type of thing. Just a night where friends hang out and do guy things, drink beer, smoke cigars, gamble, and yes look at strippers. I'm sure you have let your boyfriend know that you are not OK with it and that you will make his life such a living hell afterward that the next time a friend invites him to a bachelor party he will make an excuse as to why he can't go. You don't have to be OK with it, but you do need to get over it, it really has nothing to do with you.

    Posted by PBR June 11, 09 11:40 AM
  1. Women don't like stippers just because the strippers look better than they do. If these woman weren't so insecure, they wouldn't feel threatened by the strippers.

    Posted by jlensscared June 11, 09 11:40 AM
  1. Sorry sweetheart... bottom line... not your business. This is between him and his friend. Asking him not to go is not right.

    I understand if you find it objectionable, but as you said, this is not an often thing for him. Movies have glorified bachelor parties just as Sex and the City glorified ri-donculously expensive shoes and terrible martinis. So you gotta take it both ways.

    He sounds like a nice guy. Do not ask him to not go. This is his buddy, almost a brother if he is a best man. Completely unfair of you.

    Go out with your friends that weekend, wear $700 dollar shoes and drink somethink pink and fruity.

    Posted by adam June 11, 09 11:42 AM
  1. as a guy who is getting ready to take the plunge and get engaged, i know that my bachelor party will not include strippers. My family is big into the stripper thing, i think its a waste of money. Why would i pay a woman to get naked when i am getting married to the girl i love? I have been to bachelor parties with strippers and without. I have always had a better time without them. I dont have fun sitting in a room full of guys drooling over a naked woman like its the first one they have ever seen. The parties i have attended with strippers, i will agree they might as well have been prostitues. I am sure not all are but in my experience they all offered "private dances" to say the least.
    Now that i am with the woman i love and want to spend my life with, i would never even consider going to a party with a stripper. I think it is disrespectful towards your signifigant other if you feel the need to watch a stranger get naked in front of you. No need to drag this on because there will be many responses and most thinking that strippers are ok. Bottom line if you ask me, its a waste of time and money. Do something fun that you can all have as a good memory.

    Posted by Not into Strippers June 11, 09 11:43 AM
  1. At least he's being honest about the possibility of strippers. Although the thought of it makes me incredibly uncomfortable, I accepted the fact that there might be strippers at my brother's bachelor party, which my boyfriend attended.

    I asked my boyfriend for honesty and he told me there weren't any, promised me there wasn't and that my brother would never allow that. Well 4 months later my sister-in-law told me that there had been. As if I wasn't uncomfortable enough about it all, but to have been lied to for months. It was the first time I'd had to question the trust in our relationship.

    However crude and gross it is, and however much I disagree with it, I believe if your man is honest then it's something you have to accept. I however have lost all trust in my man going to bachelor parties. Honesty is the best, not the most comfortable, policy.

    Posted by Meh June 11, 09 11:43 AM
  1. First I should say I have no objections to my boyfriend going to strip clubs with his friends, I think it is pretty harmless. Would I be thrilled that he were in a limo with a private "dancer" for his friend's bachelor party? No, of course not. But would I ask him not to go? Absolutely not. NAS--- What will be, will be. Instead of worrying about it, plan your own night out with your gf's. Do something fun, take your mind off it. If your boyfriend does something that he shouldn't then you should thank him for saving you from wasting anymore of your time on him. If he acts faithfully (which I would bet on), then you should thank him for being a great guy and apologize for overreacting.

    With that being said, you are right about one thing, mass and public media has made female nudity acceptable--actually not just acceptable, encouragable. I would be very interested to see how the guys on here would comment if male nudity was as easily accessible as female nudity is. I guarantee attitudes would change.

    And Meredith--- Are you comparing strippers at bachelor parties to tea at bridal showers? Please, you are going to need to come up with something better than that. Sure, maybe they are both silly "rituals"---- if I have a bit too much tea at a shower, maybe I have a caffeine high for the day. If my boyfriend has a little too much stripper at a bahelor party, maybe he comes home with the Clap! You are comparing apples to oranges.

    And Hoss---- I sincerely hope you are single. I can't imagine any girl having to put up with you.

    Posted by Torn June 11, 09 11:58 AM
  1. meh - you should dump your boyfriend - strippers are no big deal - but lying like that to your face - wtf - i agree with whoever said that those that find it objectionable are jealous (i am - i'd love to have a body like a stripper - but i don't find it objectionable - its like looking at something very pretty - a flower perhaps) or have no trust in their men, or in the case of men who find it objectionable probably have some sexual issues related to religious issues

    Posted by Laurie June 11, 09 12:02 PM
  1. You're just the typical, standard-issue control freak. Don't sweat it. You're a dime a dozen. You need to control his life and everything he does at every moment. It all needs to be at your behest, to serve you, and should not involve any of his wants and needs that conflict with your preferences... yeah, we get it.

    Men accept women wholly. Men love women completely. The old adage of men/dogs and women/cats is very true. Free, unconditional love vs. cold, calculated manipulative "love"... Men accept women and enter into relationships not wanting to change anything about her. We love her for who she is, not what she can become for us... We don't ask you to stop doing ANYTHING that you want in life, yet the man can never stop jumping through hoops to somehow prove his commitment. Pathetic, emotionally-damaged need for constant reassurance at the sacrifice of his preferred mode of operation, simply for the proof / appeasement.

    To answer your question, as everyone knows, YES, this IS a man's world. Believe me, when that changes, we'll let you know..... Of course, you'll want to focus on the whipped little waifs for your assessment, but you're still fully aware of the remaining dwindling percentage of MEN who actually still exist..... Sure, women have made a nice size dent in a large cross-section of boys who have become the trained house pet, responding to the bell. But there will always be the men who have an engaged brain, don't subscribe to your lunacy, and won't allow you to run roughshod over their life... We're still out here and always will be. Hence, the familiar struggle:

    Women either have to settle for the lifeless wet noodle they've beaten into submission or deal with the frustration of a real man who doesn't put up with your self-absorbed, maniacal crap... those are the options. Welcome to society!! Enjoy your movable set piece or wake up, get over yourself, and participate in an actual meaningful relationship at some point... As always, your choice!

    Posted by DJMcG June 11, 09 12:02 PM
  1. great response from meredith re: other things women do during the wedding process that are completely silly.

    as for me, i'm not a big fan of strippers. when i had my bachelor party, i told my friends i'm not attending if strippers are in the plans at all, and they respected that. we had a night out in the north end, smoked some cigars, drank into the early morning hours, and didn't get too rowdy - that's just me. i love & respect my wife too much to get into weird situations where drunk friends are upping the ante with more and more things the stripper can do for money. i hate seeing it from either side, mine or girlfriend/wife.

    last chance for freedom = bull****. you either love your fiance and are willing to marry or you don't and aren't.

    Posted by FJ June 11, 09 12:03 PM
  1. Your boy friedn isnt a stripper guy?, Take it from a guy he is..

    Posted by Anonymous June 11, 09 12:05 PM
  1. "I hate weird lady games."

    Bravo Meredith!!!

    Posted by indiglodoe June 11, 09 12:07 PM
  1. I am a stripper and I am exploiting the men...I make over $2,000 per night when I do these parties, sometimes with another woman. We can do 2-4 parties a day/night and we don't do any sexual favors to any of the men for any amount of money. Bottom line is I drive a BRAND NEW M6 Convertible, wear very nice clothing, own my own condo on a great street in the Back Bay and I have weekdays to hit the gym/beach/shopping/lunch with friends etc... Find another job that pays this well when you are 22 years old and have no college education?

    Yes my boyfriend knows what I do and he is fine with it...he loves the money as much as I do.

    Posted by Hot Stripper in Boston June 11, 09 12:07 PM
  1. ...a couple of points come to mind, as follows:

    1. As a depiction of a relatively run-of-the-mill situation in our modern age, this column does a good job epitomizing the ultimate, massive reduction of the women's liberation movement to one in which the ONLY things that matter are a) having women in professional roles, many of which they're generally way less suited than men to perform (e.g., law enforcement and the military), and b) ensuring abortion's availability, to facilitate women's professional aspirations, and their promiscuity. Meredith and her fellow travellers decided a long time ago that the objectification of women was a price that they were willing to pay, so long as they were liberated to behave like men.

    2. Barring a truly radical worldview change on the part of the groom-to-be, this marrigae is doomed, absolutely.

    Posted by Heteroman (seriously) June 11, 09 12:08 PM
  1. boys will be boys? what about girls? my friends threw me an awesome bachelorette party that included many, many fully naked men. we had a blast. and yes, my husband's bachelor party included a trip to a strip club too. amazingly, we survived! my advice is to ask yourself why you're so worked up about it if it's not your bf's idea and you trust him. it's all in good fun, and if anyone crosses the line then there are bigger problems for you, bride-to-be and preggers to worry about. and if you want to address the historical and current social constructs regarding stripping, sexism, class differentials, etc., i think we'd need to start a new blog.

    Posted by boredinboston June 11, 09 12:08 PM
  1. he told you what the plan is, if he didn't, you'd have reason to think he would be taking the opportunity to get a private dance or two.

    it's a leap of faith on your part. if you trust him, then trust him - and tell him with no uncertain terms that you do trust him and expect him to behave. The party is not yours to control, and trying to make him choose between you and his friends will only kill the relationship.

    Posted by mike June 11, 09 12:09 PM
  1. #71--you may have all these possessions, but the bottom line (ha) is that no self-respecting professional or upwardly mobile person would give you the time of day--unless, of course, you were my maid--and even then I'd take my jewelry to work that day

    Posted by E June 11, 09 12:13 PM
  1. actually there is little difference between a striper and a prostitute. in reality most private stripers are actually prostitutes and you can pay them to do anything, trust me. I would be worried and you will just have to be comfortable not knowing what happened on the bus, you never will hear all of the details. stinks, but thats the way it is

    Posted by Chris June 11, 09 12:13 PM
  1. This has to be an age thing. When I got married my husband (30 years old) was asked by his best man to pick any kind of entertainment he wanted..wink wink. My husband asked the BM to rent a bus, pick up all of his male friends, and bring them to his favorite sushi restaurant where they spent several hours eating sushi, drinking sake and TALKING about their lives. No, these aren't euphemisms like "grilled cheese" - they just went to a Japanese restaurant. When a good friend got married recently he invited all of his buddies to drinks in Boston, then to the Red Sox game, then dinner in town. He was 40. The guys had a blast, were only marginally hung over, and no one had to do a disease check. Fun doesn't have to involve porn.

    Posted by J Bar June 11, 09 12:14 PM
  1. There are many strip clubs (with various levels of sleaze and class) to go to. Heck why not got to a bunch, especially if the purpose of the soon to be married guy is to see as many naked ladies, who are not his wife to be, before he gets married.

    A stripper on the bus is just plain icky and I can hardly see how it could/would turn out well. I think the groom to be needs to grow up ASAP ~ because if I read the letter right, he will be a husband and dad almost at the same time.

    Posted by Lain the Blunt June 11, 09 12:17 PM
  1. Tom,

    I'm not interested, so stop asking if I'm single. Go back to doing what I suppose the letter writer does: showering with a bathing suit and avoiding beaches or any other location / situation where, heaven forbid, you may see skin and get overtaken by some demonic, impure thoughts.

    - Hoss

    Posted by Hoss June 11, 09 12:18 PM
  1. most are harmless...but there is always a few yo yo's that mow the lawn

    Posted by joe June 11, 09 12:19 PM
  1. NAS is way out of line.

    And I bet she has NO qualms about the bride-to-be being "given away" as a piece of property by one man and given as a piece of property to another (the groom). That's what "giving away the bride" represents. Like slavery.

    It's time for men to stand up to these women who get out of control about weddings (theirs and others).

    Posted by getagrip June 11, 09 12:21 PM
  1. If your boyfriend has said he doesn't like strippers, what are you worried about?
    If he didn't like pizza, and went to a pizzeria, would you worry he'd eat pizza?
    No, you wouldn't, because you know he wouldn't, because he doesn't like it.
    If you don't like something, no matter how much those around you are enjoying it, you're not necessarily going to join in. Not unless you have an overwhelming need to conform.
    Don't worry about it. It's not his idea, he doesn't care for it, but it's his buddy's party, so he's being a good friend and giving his buddy what he wants.

    Don't be so insecure. Strippers are like ballplayers, they've got until they're 30 (or if they're really lucky 35) and then they have to start figuring out what else they can do for a living. Only difference is strippers can't go into coaching or become commentaters in their field.

    Posted by Noel June 11, 09 12:21 PM
  1. Valentino,
    Does this mean that I can't hire the Chippendales for your batchelor party?
    - Your best man

    Posted by Iggy June 11, 09 12:26 PM
  1. Yeah, Torn, Hoss is mine today. Go away. Umm, Hoss, are you single?

    Posted by Sally June 11, 09 12:31 PM
  1. I don't understand all this distinction between trust, watching strippers, etc.

    Watching strippers IS cheating. It is sexual activity with someone other than your partner. That's what cheating IS. Cheating does not necessarily mean only physical intercourse. I'm not sure Hillary Clinton was thinking, get OVER it, i mean, it's not like Monica and Bill had SEX or anything.

    I think #2 is exactly right.

    Posted by rws June 11, 09 12:33 PM
  1. Yo Puritans, watching strippers is not a sexual activity. It just isn't.

    Posted by Hadie Nuff June 11, 09 12:57 PM
  1. Strippers can be considered prostitutes. Although that's not what they are primarily advertised as, for obvious reasons. There is more than one form of sexual intercourse AND/OR CHEATING. Strippers, if offered enough money (similarly to some masseuses) may very well engage in one or more kinds of sexual intercourse. one of the definitions of " prostitute " is " to devote to corrupt or unworthy purposes ". It seems to me that strippers would fall under this definition...This goes beyond the main selling point, which is to simply arouse the customer but making money is the main goal. A prostitute doesn't necessarily have to be working for a pimp or standing on a street corner. The question you're asking is about image. And strippers do also carry the image of being potential prostitutes. There's no denying this. For the other idiots answering this question...yes, there is a difference between having sex and dancing. But that's not the point of this question. The point is that she's asking if strippers can be CONSIDERED prostitutes MORALLY. And yes they can.

    Posted by bee June 11, 09 01:02 PM
  1. It sounds like an opening scene to CSI.

    Posted by Sarah June 11, 09 01:05 PM
  1. ok, my 2 cents. Don't go to a strip club if they are a disgrace. Stay home, turn on some Rick James supafreak and work it.

    Posted by Melissa June 11, 09 01:05 PM
  1. I think that some people (Hoss) are going overboard with the whole "you are trying to control your fiance's life" argument. Relationships of all kinds, but especially marriage, require each person to be cognizant of the feelings and needs of the other. If your boyfriend, wife or other person you cared about came home drunk every night or was gambling all of the rent money away, would you be "interfering with their life" by asking them to change their behavior? If you don't love or care about someone, you usually don't care how they behave unless they are impacting your life in some way.

    The letter writer obviously feels strong about this, and if her husband cares about her, he needs to take those feelings into consideration and respect them. This is what we call maturity. However, maturity does not just present itself in the same ways all the time. I have a friend that I used to work with who realized a long time ago that he does not want to be in any relationship at all, precisely because he enjoys being able to smoke his cigarettes, drink, eat what he wants, watch sports and, yes, spend most Saturday nights at strip clubs without worrying about hurting another person or arguing over his behavior. Some people might say that this is a lonely existence, and perhaps it is, but I think that he is displaying a great deal of maturity by knowing what kind of life he wants and just admitting that it is probably inconsistent with the concept of a relationship.

    On the flip side, I think that a lot of women (not all) don't understand the nature of men when it comes to these matters. Saying "I should be the only woman he ever needs to see naked for the rest of his life!" is not realistic ideologically or practically. Keep in mind that I am not talking about cheating here. What I mean is that even the most faithful married guy is going to stumble across a movie on cable late at night and not exactly change the channel. In addition, every guy needs the occasional "boys night out" with his friends to eat a few dozen buffalo wings and have a few beers, just as women might need the occasional "retail therapy" excursion with her friends. It's all about balance and knowing what the boundaries are, and also respecting the other's feelings.

    In this case, I think the guy needs to ask himself if it is worth it to potentially do great harm to his wife's feelings for a skeevy bus trip. I personally did not have a bachelor party when I got married so that I did not put any of my friends in the awkward position of having to tell their wives that they were going someplace questionable.

    Posted by cebubaby June 11, 09 01:06 PM
  1. are strip clubs supposed to be NON-disgraceful? they're fulla trashy girls taking their clothes off for money. so... where's the grace, or class?

    Posted by robert June 11, 09 01:07 PM
  1. And I love Mere's phrase, "weird ladies games." To me, as a woman (even though putt in CC is convinced I'm a man), those are far more offensive than a lap dance. I'd rather have my eyes "offended" than my other sensibilities.

    Again - have pity on the pros; work to legalize that profession in Massachusetts so that they can get proper health coverage, pay taxes, not hide what their doing from others and NOT BE EXPLOITED by their "employers." I see Puritan Mass. is alive and well on this board, for the most part.

    Posted by reindeergirl June 11, 09 01:07 PM
  1. Why is a woman's body being viewed as a sexual thing "objectifying?" We are sexual beings. That is a fact. Women's bodies in our society are considered much more beautiful than men's bodies. I think that is flattering. We shouldn't be afraid of sexuality. Plus, the reason why men's strip clubs aren't as popular is because seeing men's flacid junk waving around is not attractive at all. Nobody wants to see that.
    They voluntarily work there. They are aware that men (and some women too) are looking at them in a sexual way, and they are okay with that

    Posted by jessica June 11, 09 01:08 PM
  1. Hey Hoss! It's Torn, not Tom. Thanks for reading though!

    Sally--- He is all yours. I'm not into male schovenist pigs.

    Posted by Torn June 11, 09 01:11 PM
  1. the reason the whole stripper thing is unfair is because for the most part women dont want anything to do with male strippers. or at least young women don't. this is something i will never understand. it is up to men to really sell them on this idea so that finally men and women will look at the stripping business the same!!

    Posted by brilliant June 11, 09 01:12 PM
  1. Do women (and men) 'choose' to be prostitutes/gigolos? Do they 'choose' to be mail-order brides?Cabaret or burlesque, I'm cool with. But I've always found the stories of emotionally stable and happy strippers/prostitutes to be fallacies.

    Posted by racy June 11, 09 01:12 PM
  1. Male strip clubs are also a waste of money, but smell nice and are a hoot. The shows are more liekly to be shows but most of them dont' show cock (really, no cock? what's the point?) Teh hoot comes fro the middle aged white trash women at the front screaming like teens are a JT concert

    Posted by chuck June 11, 09 01:13 PM
  1. Yeah, the US is EXTREMELY sexually uptight. We all need to just relax a little.
    Stripping is not prostitution. Looking at the human body should not be a shameful thing. Okay, I better stop before I develop some Yelp stalkers. I know Statham though so be warned.

    Posted by Jessy June 11, 09 01:14 PM
  1. Jessika is right though. Up until very recently, Le Monde used to have a picture of a half naked girl on the front cover (17 maybe?). The advertisement was for perfume, some sort of virginal motif. It took an American advertiser to crow and cry about how it's child pornography, before the owners took it down. After something like a decade. The French didn't seem to see the issue.

    Women have boobs. Men have cocks. BFD. Any two animals can screw. We're the only ones that put any sort of emotional meaning into it. Well, other animals are monogamous, but you don't see a penguin getting his mate flowers and chocolates.The special thing about our relationships, are the things we do to show love and support for each other. Sex is just an act that people get all bent out of shape about. If my gf wants to fuck another guy, I'll probably let her (and watch, and tape it!). If she wants to run off with said other guy and withdraw her love and support from me, I'll probably be upset.

    Posted by nick June 11, 09 01:16 PM
  1. NAS wrote:

    "And am I the only one who wants to put a blanket over the woman doing the stripping and tell her she doesn't have to do this anymore?"

    You, LW, have no business telling women what kind of job to have. How arrogant. How 1st-wave feminist! Some are in it by choice; they're darned good at it, and they make some money. What if I told some don't become a bean-counting MBA because it makes women look like men? Some nerve. You're letter actually makes me feel angry, and to pity you, not sex workers of all kinds.

    Posted by reindeergirl June 11, 09 01:19 PM
  1. Announcement:

    "Love Letters Summer Social"

    Details to be announced.

    Stay tuned.

    ** Attend at your own risk if you are "uncomfortable" with the prospect of seeing human bodies, discussions of food preparation, co-workers that stare at you, euphemisms, the consumption of adult beverages (not intended to be a euphemism), on again off again romances, eating in the park, the bicycle: means of transportation or annoying propaganda device for an egomaniac woman pretending to be man, 'Dith as the hostess with the mostess, etc.

    Posted by Hoss June 11, 09 01:20 PM
  1. Sure, if prostitution occurs at a strip club, that is another issue and not what I was talking about. I just don't get how stripping is disrespect. And yes, women who are strippers CHOOSE IT. There is no gun to their head. If you need money, there are many options to get it. If you choose stripping as your option, then well, you made that choice. And it is up for them to feel if they are being disrepsected.

    My point is that looking at the human body is not disrespectful. Thinking sexual thoughts when looking at said naked body isn't NORMAL. This goes with my point that we are ashamed of our sexuality by attaching negative stereotypes.

    Our bodies are sexual, so putting yours out there on purpose to be viewed in a sexual way is not a bad thing.

    It is a fact that women are sexualized in our society (and many others around the world) much more than men. That is something that has been happening for CENTURIES. It is not an overnight fix. As long as the women stripping have respect for themselves, are empowered and don't let them patrons abuse them, then what is the issue?

    Look we all like to feel sexy. It just takes different forms.

    Do you ever dress up in boots and a short skirt? Do you put on makeup before you leave the house? Do you do your nails and your hair? those are all things women do to feel sexy. It is for the benefit of those viewing us, and when other people think we are sexy, it empowers us and builds self esteem

    Posted by jessy June 11, 09 01:20 PM
  1. Who cares what other people do with themselves? To sound very Christian-y, we shouldn't be JUDGING OTHERS, whomever is hangin' out upstairs is going to be the judge.

    Posted by jenlo June 11, 09 01:21 PM
  1. do you have any idea the number of lonely PEOPLE out there, men and women, because we can't seem to express our sexuality correctly?

    So a hot woman comes onto the T. EVERY guy looks at her. Some of them are a short step away from drooling. Some of those guys are with their own women. Are they pigs, or are they not getting what they need from their current partner, and depriving themselves of what they truly want? Could be one, the other, or both. Some guys will just fuck any woman who lets them. Others have some sort of strange fetish, and they're too shy to tell their current partner about it. Others don't have a partner currently, and are feeling lonely about it.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is...I think that few men who gaze on an attractive woman are thinking soley about her t & a and objectifying her. They are nice, but every woman has them, and here in Boston, there's a LOT of attractive ladies. I think it's more emotional needs not met.

    I'm strange though. I would date a stripper solely for the experience of dating one. I have the same disease that makes Clarice talk to Hannibal....I'm fascinated by people....especially when they are a little bit off.

    Posted by nick June 11, 09 01:22 PM
  1. Okay, Nick is officially creepy.I wasn't saying it is the same thing, I am saying that when you put on makeup or whatever to feel sexy, it is a way of expressing sexuality. In that regard, they are the same, just different extremes of the same thing.

    Posted by jessy June 11, 09 01:23 PM
  1. btw assuming that the only ones who appreciate a naked woman on stage are men is a little N.O.W. Apparently, there were a lot of women around this nation recently who were fighting for their right to like boobs and be married at the same time. Something like hundreds of thousands. Are those girls pigs for showing up to strip clubs also? Or just us drooling barbarians. :)

    Posted by nick June 11, 09 01:24 PM
  1. Nick, are you implying that only lonely people stare at hot chicks/dudes? That makes no sense. I will always stare at hot people (subtly). Eye Candy = Awesome.

    Posted by racy June 11, 09 01:25 PM
  1. can someone explain to me why a group of guys likes to get turned on with other guys? or watch porn with other guys? seem's kinda off to me.

    Posted by wondering June 11, 09 01:27 PM
  1. Now, after the pole dancing students learn pole dancing, do they apply to strip joints to show off what they've learned, or do they just go home and pole dance for a loved one? Same or different

    Posted by racy June 11, 09 01:27 PM
  1. #86 rws, that is a mighty broad stroke you've made. Seeing a stripper IS cheating? really? What else is cheating? Watching a porno? How about watching a regular R rated movie with nudity? What about imagining a nude woman other than the spouse? All that must be cheating too?

    Basically, there IS a line to be drawn, and it is really what BOTH people agree on as the standard. For many men, if they don't have intercourse, it isn't cheating.

    I know a woman who says if her husband talks intimately about any details that he cannot talk with his wife about, then THAT is cheating.

    The point being there is a certain level of insecurity that someone feels, a way they perceive the ideal relationship and there is also such a thing as being overly-sensitive, overly defensive, overly controlling that can take place. There is also a thing called trust, and a partner in a relationship needs to give a little space to each other and not feel entitled to ownership of the other persons feelings, desires, and endeavors.

    Posted by S June 11, 09 01:28 PM

    Posted by Anonymous June 11, 09 01:29 PM
  1. Fifteen years later I'm still a little irked that my very loving husband to whom I'm very happily married allowed himself to be dragged to a strip club for his bachelor party because it's tradition and because it's what his loser brother and some of his friends wanted. He's been pretty vocal over they years about having ZERO interest in places like that and just coming home when that's where the night is going with his friends but for some reason he felt compelled to go along with it over my objections on the eve of making a lifelong committment. All I can say is huh?

    I agree 100% that very few woman would find it acceptable for their husbands and boyfriends to spend time at a party with an unpaid naked woman swinging her tatas in their faces. I'm truly baffled as to how patronizing strippers can be considered a harmless tradition when it can cause even minor resentment that lasts decades for the future spouse. Years of resentment = harm. Period. Lots of stupid traditions (like dumb lady games) are finding themselves jetisoned from modern weddings. Obligatory strippers need to be dumped too. People need to get over the idea that because it's their wedding they should be indulged in all things. If you're old enough to get married you're old enough to grow up and have some consideration for the feelings of others.

    Posted by growup June 11, 09 01:31 PM
  1. Goodness, what happened to the filters?

    Posted by Rae June 11, 09 01:35 PM
  1. Just deal with it. It's a guys' night out. It may be stupid to you and to Meredith, but I'm sure it'll be tons of fun for the guys involved.

    Do you trust your man? If you do, then you have nothing to worry about. Who cares? It's not like he's doing anything scandalous, he's telling you up front what's going to happen. "Cheating" implies some sort of secret being kept and it involves dishonesty. He's doing neither.

    I think buying gifts for showers, weddings, bridal showers, etc is stupid and unnecessary.

    What a nagger you sound like. I'm gonna guess that you'll have your own bachelorette party and your friends might hire you a male striper or take you out and get you so drunk and to flirt with guys.

    I think in some respects, bachelor parties are more tame than bachelorette parties because the guys can control themselves better. Every bachelorette party I've run into out at the bars has been crazy, with the bride to be being extremely drunk and making out with every guy in the place.

    Just let the guys go and have fun. Why must you try to ruin their fun?

    Posted by Mikey "Insane" Monkeypants June 11, 09 01:35 PM
  1. Jenlo - you are employing a nonsensical argument regarding "judging" that has gotten a lot of play in recent times, but makes no sense.

    To "judge" someone is to be the final arbiter of their fate. Thus, the Biblical passage "Judge not lest ye be judged." I think that this means that humans do not have the right to be the final decider of the fate of someone else's life - thus Christianity's opposition to abortion, euthenasia, the death penalty, etc.

    However, it is not "judging" someone to oppose their behavior or decisions.

    Posted by cebubaby June 11, 09 01:37 PM
  1. #86. watching strippers is NOT cheating. doing anything that your significant other doesn't have a problem with is NOT cheating. Is looking at a text book while taking an exam cheating? What if the teacher said it was an open book test?

    Posted by dt June 11, 09 01:40 PM
  1. Your letter is an example why guys need to have a "last night of fun." Girls like you are soo crazy and prude that guys feel like they are jumping to their deaths when they get married. Look, strippers are not prostitute. Do you think if given another option they will do this? No. Just because you are lucky in life, doesn't give you the right to demean other people.

    I only wish that when you decide to get married, your fiance would fall in love with a stripper. You deserve to be alone in life and death.

    Posted by Carlos June 11, 09 01:40 PM
  1. Substitute "belly-dancers" for "strippers" and you are almost guaranteed to get those women complaining about strippers change their tune instantly, even though a belly-dance can be hotter, sexier and more provocative than a strip.

    Posted by TheDude June 11, 09 01:40 PM
  1. Torn Hoss Tom,
    Thanks for the announcement. since you are on that side of the planet,
    enjoy couple of Foster's for me!
    Wagon Mound.

    Posted by cobber June 11, 09 01:42 PM
  1. Girlfriend, you need to plan your own last night of freedom - or hell, last weekend of freedom. Let me tell you why. I have been married for less than two years and things have changed immensly. I went from being an independent woman to picking up my husbands dirty socks, making him dinner, cleaning the house...oh, and working full time as well. Being wifey sucks a lot more than I thought it would. Men think marriage is the old ball and chain, but let me tell you, marriage is a dream come true for men - an institution where they can chilax while wifey takes care of everything. This is true of EVERY married couple we are friends with. So ladies, before you go marching down the aisle, think about what you are signing yourself up for. Once you're thought about it for, oh, ten seconds, you'll want your own last night of freedom to get rubbed down by a hot, muscular guy who doesn't ask you "whats for dinner" or "wheres my sweat pants - ya know, the ones with the holes in the crotch?"

    Posted by Mandy June 11, 09 01:43 PM
  1. And, I just got married recently. I've been to plenty of strip clubs with my now wife and it's always been fun. She went to her sister's bachelorette party last year and they hired a stripper. I didn't care, I thought it was funny.

    Some of you people are such sticks in the mud. If it's not your man going to see strippers that you're nagging about, it'll be his Tuesday night poker game or his Sunday afternoon football day, or his going out for drinks after work with the co-workers.

    If you're a nagger, you'll find something to latch on to, and the bachelor party seems to be a large handle to get stuck on. Just forget about it, be happy your boyfriend is going to have a rare weekend of fun out with the guys, and enjoy the time away and do your own thing.

    Who cares if he looks at a naked girl? I'm going to bet any amount of money that be LOOKS AT PORNO TOO! I bet he masturbates and THINKS OF OTHER WOMEN BESIDES YOU. Get over yourself, lady. Put it in perspective. You must have some serious trust issues.

    Posted by Mikey "Insane" Monkeypants June 11, 09 01:44 PM
  1. Hoss I hope you are laughing as hard as I am about Tom the Torn's newly coined Yiddish term. Schovenist -- an overzealous and biased Hebrew dork. Oy. It takes all kinds.

    Posted by Sally June 11, 09 01:45 PM
  1. nick, Clarice had to (read those last two words again) talk to Hannibal because she was trying to solve a crime and catch a perp, not because she enjoyed it because of some disease. Get your facts straight before you start throwing out your analogies.

    Posted by TheDude June 11, 09 01:45 PM
  1. Hoss I hope you are laughing as hard as I am about Tom the Torn's newly coined Yiddish term. Schovenist -- an overzealous and biased Hebrew dork. Oy. It takes all kinds.

    Posted by Sally June 11, 09 01:45 PM
  1. And, I just got married recently. I've been to plenty of strip clubs with my now wife and it's always been fun. She went to her sister's bachelorette party last year and they hired a stripper. I didn't care, I thought it was funny.

    Some of you people are such sticks in the mud. If it's not your man going to see strippers that you're nagging about, it'll be his Tuesday night poker game or his Sunday afternoon football day, or his going out for drinks after work with the co-workers.

    If you're a nagger, you'll find something to latch on to, and the bachelor party seems to be a large handle to get stuck on. Just forget about it, be happy your boyfriend is going to have a rare weekend of fun out with the guys, and enjoy the time away and do your own thing.

    Who cares if he looks at a naked girl? I'm going to bet any amount of money that be LOOKS AT PORNO TOO! I bet he masturbates and THINKS OF OTHER WOMEN BESIDES YOU. Get over yourself, lady. Put it in perspective. You must have some serious trust issues.

    Posted by Mikey "Insane" Monkeypants June 11, 09 01:50 PM
  1. I still wanna see "Chicken" do a snail trail down a pole

    Posted by eric June 11, 09 01:51 PM
  1. I told my guy that if he didn't go out and have the time of his life on his bachelor party...i wouldn't marry him. He loves strippers so....bring on the naked ladies.

    Its his party and his choice. I wouldn't marry someone who lets me dictate his choices for him.

    Relax....strippers want his wallet...not him.

    Posted by Sabs June 11, 09 01:54 PM
  1. good points #2 (jlen). the issues here are not trust or insecurity or a desire to control. they are the level of discomfort associated with the act of stripping, the nudity, the sexual nature of the entertainment and a question as to why this type of activity would be fun for a bunch of guys. why are all those people that advocate communication in a relationship asking NAS to shut up and stay out of it? the idea of her bf attending a bachelor party with strippers bothers her and she should certainly share her feelings with him, especially if these are strong feelings. hopefully this will lead to a discussion and bf can decide if he wants to be a part of this type of entertainment.

    Posted by ll_lurker June 11, 09 01:54 PM
  1. Another entertaining day on LL.....

    Posted by Alvin June 11, 09 01:58 PM
  1. The main thing you need to be concerned about is the fact that you dont seem to trust your boyfriends character. If he is a good person then there is nothing to worry about. I beg you not to ask him not to go. Can you imagine how it would be for him to be like, "sorry guys, my gf asked me not to go because she doesnt like strippers." It wouldnt work. He would take a beating and it would demasculate him.
    Strippers and bachelor parties are fun. I dont like strippers that much, they dont turn me on, and I try never to give them my money but its still fun to be out with the guys having a good time. I've been to all types of bachelor parties including my own. You definitely get a little bit more of a show with private strippers but they generally dont have sex with guys from bachelor parties. I suppose if they paid enough they could do whatever but then thats up to your boyfriend and his character. If he's not a cheater then he wouldnt be interested anyway. The point of having strippers for the most part is to haze the groom. My friends had the stripper take my shirt off, take my belt off, pull down my pants and beat my a$$ with my belt until I almost cried. Then she rode me around like I was a dog. They give you a lap dance and whatever and thats it. My friends thought it was hilarious and I had fun.
    If its a private party the stripper my do some extra stuff with another girl or a cigar or something but trust me they arent going to do much with the guys especially while there is a dude there protecting them. Any guy who pays for and has sex or hooks up with a stripper or prostitue has many other issues but again, its up to your boyfriends character. If you dont trust him then you ought to think about that. He'll find a way to have sex or hook up without paying for it but by no means is a stripper going to be all over your boyfriend unless he's shelling out money and he wants it.

    Posted by Rico's supervisor June 11, 09 01:59 PM
  1. I think the LW has a right to her feelings and it kind of p!sses me off when people (like#22) act some how superior to the rest of us because they enable their partner's bad behavior. Everyone is entitled to their own boundaries.

    Posted by betty June 11, 09 02:02 PM
  1. It's all about a "control" or "insecurity" issue. My former wife went on my bachelor party (it was only golf) because her friends didn't plan anything for her and she felt left out. So she went and that was ok by me. However, I should have read more into that behavior as her anxiety and insecurity issues resurfaced weekly until she threw in the towel and divorced after 10 years of marriage for absolutely no real reason. Just insecurity, anxiety, and control.

    Posted by bob June 11, 09 02:03 PM
  1. honelstly if regular ppl go 2 beaches in broad daylight naked...whats wrong with being naked for $$ in a dark indoor area?? as long as they not having sex i don't see the big deal i friggin hate when guys take pics of me at the beach (when im fully covered) i wish i could make them pay...if u got it flaunt it...u won't have the body 4ever and u can disguise urself if u want 2... besides america is a lil bit 2 conservative...every other culture except middleast shows womans boobs and sex on tv if u don't act like its a big deal...then it won't be....thats my opinion

    Posted by farzad June 11, 09 02:08 PM
  1. There's a strip club in Atlanta that has full frontal nudity. It's called Swinging Richards. I've been 3 times. And it's so much fun. I was that crazy lady who sat down with a stripper and heard his full life story. Good times.

    Posted by linda June 11, 09 02:09 PM
  1. You can't blame the girl for her feelings. If she is concerned with it, that's the way it is. If they move forward with the stripper, then she is goign to have to live with it. The thing is, I have seen a million of these and only one did I see the stripper's bodyguard offer 'other services'. Usually, these thing are subdued. However, then there's the bachelorette parties.

    I have a friend that used to strip for bachelorette parties. He said they were out of control. He almost always got some. Often it was the bride to be. Once, according to him, he banged the maid of honor and, then, the bride's mother. No kidding. He told me that even if there isn't any 'action', there is always a lot of groping.

    Compare this to most bachelor parties and there isn't much comparison - the women are far more to be concerned about.

    Posted by BH June 11, 09 02:09 PM
  1. Here's an alternative ritual for grooms about to become husbands: hang out with your soon-to-be wife's best girlfriends for an evening of good food, convivial drinks, and listen to all their rollicking good stories about her during all the years they've known her. No doubt they know every embarrassing story and quirk about her.
    Likewise, the soon-to-be wife spends the evening with her grooms' best guy friends, around a campfire, good food and drinks and they likewise tell her all about the guy she's about to marry.
    Can't we think outside the box for a change?

    Posted by exvermonter June 11, 09 02:10 PM
  1. Linds, I can't believe you brought up ole' Swinging Dicks on Northside Drive! Not that I ever went there.... heard that Foxy Lady has been making due by lowering prices to the rate they udes to be in the 80s...so I'd say check that.

    Posted by danielle June 11, 09 02:11 PM
  1. cebubaby, you're wrong. She is trying to control his life. She's preparing to dictate the entertainment that his friend can or cannot have at his bachelor party. She's preparing to give her boyfriend the choice between a) honoring the groom's wishes (and fulfilling his best man obligations), and b) doing what his girlfriend wants him to do. You simply do NOT put someone in that position. A girlfriend should trust her man and not get insecure and try to dictate the terms of HIS bachelor party. To try to dictate the term's of his friend's bachelor party is absolutely absurd. Ginormous red flag warning.

    Tommy Torn, thanks for playing, but you will not be moving on to the next round. Kindly step off-stage and accept your parting gifts: a year's supply of Ovaltine and an "English as a Second Language" book. Buh-bye!

    Sally, Tricia, et al, thanks for seeing the entertainment value in Dith's blog. Come to the LL Summer Social and we'll discuss this further.

    Posted by Hoss June 11, 09 02:11 PM
  1. I am a married woman. Read posting #1 by spaceman.
    Then re-read it. He nails this.

    Posted by Elizabeth June 11, 09 02:14 PM
  1. Wow, some people have a really warped idea of what 'trust' really means.

    The pro stripper set here seems to believe that 'trust' means you are obligated to let your boyfriend do anything, anywhere at anytime with anyone and not express the slightest bit of apprehension. Anything less and you are a shrewish, jealousy-riddled hag who deserves to be alone forever.

    That's lunacy. Rational, reasonal people understand that trust isn't a blank check to indulge in boorish behavior that makes one's SO cringe. And any guy who would guilt-trip his girlfriend into putting up with that kind of behavior by playing the 'don't you trust me?' card is really full of it.

    Not a Stripper, you are certainly not the only woman who has serious misgivings about this 'tradition'. Unfortunately, many women feel, due to pressure from society, their men and even other women, that they just don't have the right to say or do anything about it. But this is YOUR relationship, not theirs, and you have a right to set boundaries that may not look exactly like someone else's. The thing is, all women have deal-breakers when it comes to their relationships, and these deal-breakers come in all shapes and sizes. I'm sure there are things you put up with in your relationship that don't bother you one bit, but that another woman would find intolerable and vice versa.

    So if this is something that you simply feel is intolerable for you, please be honest with your BF about it. Don't attack him or get angry, but don't pull punches either. He really needs to know how and why you're struggling with this. If you were doing something that really bothered him, wouldn't you want to know about it and try to come to some sort of mutual resolution?

    And oh by the way, I've also attended a bachelorette party with a private (male) stripper and I too came away confused by the difference between strippers and prostitutes. It was very enlightening to say the least.

    Posted by Rae June 11, 09 02:14 PM
  1. What's a little STD among friends?

    Posted by herpes June 11, 09 02:24 PM
  1. If it were a mans world, there wouldnt be an elaborate wedding ceremony in the first place, that is done for women. Give the guy a break, you shouldnt try and control him, that never works. Cheaters will cheat, and good men will not. If you have a good man, than there is nothing to worry about. I really hope this isnt a "my butt has gotten big in the past 3 years and I am not as sexy as I used to be, so I dont want my guy looking at a stripper, who probably looks pretty good." type deal. But either way, a bachelor party is a guys night out, thats about it. its more about the guys than the strippers.

    Posted by boston joe June 11, 09 02:25 PM
  1. Oy! I feel your painI was the bride-to-be in a similar scenario almost a decade ago. All I can say is for me it was an issue of feeling hurt by his need to celebrate his 'last night of freedom" and feeling like a ball and chainand hating the sexist stripper thing and for him it was me trying to tell him what he could and couldn't do..he went, I cried, we got married and 10 years later he is the best husband and father I could ever want...his needing to go was not a giant character flaw as I thought but simply because , as my sister said what are you going to do, "men like naked ladies."

    Posted by alison June 11, 09 02:26 PM
  1. Strippers are fun.
    Bachelor parties are fun.
    My bachelor party was GREAT.
    It was almost 10 years ago.
    I'm still married with no issues and two kids.
    Stop controlling (or trying to control) your BF.
    Or you'll drive your BF away.

    Posted by josh June 11, 09 02:26 PM
  1. EEEK!! I'm shocked and shocked and shocked to learn that many-a-strip club double as brothels! i gotta go to jail. i've been very bad. In fact, I CHOOSE not to believe it. So there .Also..uh..beauty is in the eye of the beholder. And other such things.

    Posted by noelle June 11, 09 02:30 PM
  1. (I have very little to do today, obvsiously)

    Rae, you said, "Rational, reasonal people understand that trust isn't a blank check to indulge in boorish behavior that makes one's SO cringe."

    That's EXACTLY what trust is. It's giving out a black check and knowing you have nothing to worry about.

    Posted by Sally June 11, 09 02:32 PM
  1. I have to say that personally, I do think that a stripper on a bus is a little worse than going to Centerfolds. And I am not entirely comfortable with someone that I am in a relationship going to strip clubs. But (and I am going to completely contradict myself here) why then is it ok to watch adult movies and things like that? I think it's just because it's right in front of you and in person. I don't think it's an issue of control for the LW, it's an issue of insecurity. But the truth is that it's going to happen either way, and there's nothing to worry about. True, you'll probably go out with your girlfriends that night and complain about it all night. If your boyfriend was going to cheat, or do something disrespectful to you, it wouldn't be done on a bus with all of his friends.
    There are some battles that you just can't win. You should be happy that your boyfriend is a good friend to this guy that's getting married. I think that says a lot more about him than the fact that this is the plan for the bachelor party.

    PS a LL mixer??? sounds interesting. can't wait to see rico and his wife ride up on a bicycle built for two:)

    Posted by sm1231 June 11, 09 02:32 PM
  1. Meredith rules!don't advise what's right for your bf/others. do what 's BEST for YOU.

    Posted by qbee June 11, 09 02:35 PM
  1. I'm a woman and I personally never cared about my man going to see strippers. If I can't trust him to not be a dirty pig about it, then I shouldn't have ever been with him. If your man is going to screw around with a stripper at a party, he would have screwed around anyway. How do you feel about women going to see male strippers? Those kinds of parties can get equally as raunchy. And you said your boyfriend isn't even really into strippers, so why would you think he'd act stupid about it? I think bachelor parties are more the guy's version of celebrating the upcoming wedding, not a last hurrah. Some guys celebrate by going on golf trips or to casinos....some by seeing strippers. It's really that simple. And by the way, I happen to think male strippers are more comical than anything! :-)

    Posted by bumbly-bee June 11, 09 02:38 PM
  1. i could care less if my husband goes out with his friends to see strippers. i am confident about our relationship and keep him happy at home. and it's not my job - i enjoy it. we joke about his trips to see strippers. thank goodness we can be honest with one another and not lie and keep secrets. get a grip.

    Posted by amber June 11, 09 02:39 PM
  1. I had a bachellorette party with strippers and men all over the place. It was hysterical and fun. My hubby and I had our 'nights' out at the same time, and mine ended with ripped nylons and absolutely tipsy beyond all recognition as I met up with him later, and he looked at me sayng 'what did YOU do tonight?" I just smiled. and I was perfectly faithful and kept my clothes on. I hope he had just as good a time as me. We've been married 20 years andhave three years. honestly ladies, such rookie worries. Dont sweat the small stuff. Live a little and learn to be more tolerant when others want to .

    Posted by more needed for perspective June 11, 09 02:42 PM
  1. "Blank" not "black." Also I spelled bachelor party wrong earlier. Looks like I need that ESL book.

    Posted by Sally June 11, 09 02:44 PM
  1. Please people...this is a maturity thing. Would you want your daughter to be the stripper on that bus? Are we really such slaves to our sex drives that we are willing to degrade ourselves & others for a little thrill? This is really sad.

    Posted by We're pathetic June 11, 09 02:45 PM
  1. How is this not cheating? # 124 I had a naked woman take off my clothes and ride me around like I was a dog.

    ...because your friends thought it was hilarious and you had fun? Or because you paid her? OK, I think most people can agree that looking at strippers is not cheating. Lap dances are more than looking. This dog thing is more than looking. How would you fellas feel if your bride this do this a stranger? How is it that much different for a stranger to do it to you?

    Bachelor parties are like cheating lite - it definitely looks like cheating, but it's supposed to be OK for the night. I'm not arguing for or against it, just making a point that the bachelor party / stripper thing is a bit strange. Good discussion today.

    And stop worrying about nagging. My fiance has friends who's wives / girlfriends objected to the strip clubs and everyone respected that. Good guys will understand.

    Posted by Edna June 11, 09 02:46 PM
  1. I don't really get the hypocritical complaints. Is it OK for women to go out and blow bubbles on their bachelorettes but guys can't see a stripper?

    Posted by Yjn Hung Lo June 11, 09 02:48 PM
  1. Rico has some added thoughts:

    Rico has been thinking for a few hours about this and still thinks it is your relationship that needs to be analyzed. Guys go to strip clubs, women go to strip clubs, we all do things that our loved ones may not agree with but as long as it is in moderation and not illegal or immoral then Rico doesn't see an issue here.

    Rico's occasional nice dinner or extra scoop of ice cream only makess him work out extra, Rico's wife wanted some new clothes so she works a few extra hours, Rico wants to go out on a Wednesday night with the guys to a strip club or for a few drinks then he has to deal with being sleepy at work the next day. Rico's wife can stay out with the girls and it's the same story for her. Rico or his wife may feel the other is nuts for staying out late on a "school night" but it doesn't adversely affect the relationship.

    Rico still just thinks this is an issue that is your relationship with this guy not his seeing strippers. Please write in and let us know if he gives you reason to worry. Is the Groom to be a cheater? What's the real story behind your letter because not wanting him to see a stripper is pretty lame. Rico knows of many women that will go with their guy to a strip club. So what is the problem?

    Tell us what you really need? Rico's here to help.

    Love always and forever,


    Pedal Power

    Posted by Rico June 11, 09 02:52 PM
  1. velobikes for 'Dith
    tallbikes for DcmcJ, Jlen.......
    don't yell while discuss further.....
    HebrewTorn on tricycle (with thedude, yes from biasedyiddishdork),
    unicycle for single (status assumed) Hoss,
    quadricycle (Hoss and his euphemistic buddies),
    (DITCH-never hybrid bikes or clown bikes)
    for me the largest multi-bike with 40 riders for BOSTON on the go !!!!!!!!!!

    Posted by waytogo June 11, 09 02:59 PM
  1. On call "exotic dancers" only call themselves such for legal reasons because they ARE prostitutes. At least one of the boys on the bus will have inappropriate relations with her. I hope it is not your man or the future groom. If it is any consolation, these girls do what they do because they are not hot enough to work at a club and just be naked for money. They need to add extras.

    Posted by citykitty617 June 11, 09 03:00 PM
  1. Never mind the stripper on the bus. . . ."co-best man"???
    What is that all about?

    Posted by warthog June 11, 09 03:01 PM
  1. I can understand her point. No matter how faithful a man is, if he's drunk and he's being offerd a grilled cheese sandwich by a beautiful waitress... he just might nibble at the restaurant instead of waiting for his gf to make him one at home. If he stays sober and/or stays out of the restaurant, he is less vulnerable.

    That said, it really is his decision. A girlfriend cannot control that, only entreat him to avoid potentially compromising situations and reserve grilled cheeses & other delights for his own kitchen.

    Posted by HollyP June 11, 09 03:03 PM
  1. Geez, how much is this going to cost everyone? Party bus+stripper+Foxwoods might be too expensive per person and maybe this will all blow over on its own when guys start dropping out of attending and the individual cost goes up.

    Maybe a good economy-friendly compromise would be going to Centerfolds first and then to the casino? At least the strippers are better supervised and not traveling. I think guys love the idea of a stripper, but once she’s in their presence, they tend to get disappointed. Most of them are kind of fugly and look like they’ve been around the block a few too many times.

    NAS: While I totally understand your distaste, think of the long-term picture. This is one night. Let him have it and let him be the perfect best friend/best man-- with minimal complaining on your part. You will likely end ahead of the game because your guy will think you are the coolest, most understanding GF ever. Let the bride-to-be and wife complain to their guys all they want—when those guys grouse to your guy about the hassle they put up with, you’ll only look better to your BF.

    Posted by Madra June 11, 09 03:04 PM
  1. I'm in the process of planning a bachelor party that is coming up soon. Within 2 weeks of the engagement I was told by the finace "no strippers at the bachelor party" to which I replied "it's a damn good thing you're not planning it." Do yourselves a favor you insecure ladies and don't ask about it and we won't tell you about it. I hope this cat dumps you by days end.

    Posted by Colonel Angus June 11, 09 03:09 PM
  1. Sabend, you couldn't be more wrong...("There is nothing about men or women that MAKES us behave the way we might...")...you obviously don't have kids (i.e. little boys who, when denied toy guns, begin "shooting" sticks...girls who go to dolls like magnets).

    Men are BY NATURE visually-stimulated...it's an anthropological fact and necessity (no longer necessary, granted, but we haven't had time to evolve beyond it). The 21st-century brain can try and fight these impulses (which nature conceals as desires), but with most guys the most you can hope for is they'll deny what they want, while still wanting it.

    I chose not to have strippers at my BP (love naked women, but not to share with 20 guys), but believe me, 99% of guys have NO desire to sleep with them...most of the time they're laughing. BTW, my understanding is that bachelorette parties with male strippers are FAR more physical.

    This is a pretty silly thread, all in all.

    Posted by Spy June 11, 09 03:10 PM
  1. 1. You're not engaged.
    2. Your boyfriend is NOT the guest of honor at the bachelor party.
    3. The groom to be wants a stripper for his party
    4. Your boyfriend is the best man and therefore arranges the bachelor party
    5. Not all strippers touch or allow others to touch
    6. Watching someone remove clothes is not a sexual act
    7. Worry about this stuff when it's your wedding and the bachelor party of your fiance.
    8. I remove all of my clothes prior to showering and sometimes prior to swimming.

    Posted by Bob Dwyer June 11, 09 03:10 PM
  1. Sally, you're not really being honest with yourself. By your logic, trust prevents us from expecting any base level of behavior from our partners other than simply 'don't have sexual intercourse with another person." Maybe you've seen a relationship that did not have any behavioral boundaries other than that, but I sure haven't.

    Posted by Rae June 11, 09 03:14 PM
  1. Any woman who's ever been to one of these places w/a group of guys and other girls can tell you they are basically harmless! A lot of the guys there look really uncomfortable--like they're afraid they might get a little Norwegian Wood and everyone would notice--and just look like they're trying to be one of the guys. A few really creepy ones look like they probably live for those nights at the club and have a special girl there that dances "just for them". Most of the strippers are just kids and look great but who cares? I'd be worried about any man who really seemed to get into this stuff, but other than them, let them be!

    Posted by E June 11, 09 03:15 PM
  1. #91_Racy, I'm with you: “I've always found the stories of emotionally stable and happy strippers/prostitutes to be fallacies,” or to turn the phrase, “phallicies”

    Posted by Kate's Nonna June 11, 09 03:16 PM
  1. To allay some fears here, in my experience, strippers who do private shows always, *always*, ALWAYS bring along bouncers for protection. So unless a bunch of drunk guys want to take on a huge goon who's packing heat, the stripper is in no real danger of being attacked.

    Posted by been there... you know the rest June 11, 09 03:17 PM
  1. Meredith,
    Generally I agree with your opinions, but not so much today. Imo -there's no way to compare games (like how many ribbons she breaks opening presents - is how many kids they will have) with a stripper. Sort of like comparing apples with hand grenades.

    If my husband was going to a bachelor party, where they were going to multiple strip clubs and traveling between them on a bus I'd be pretty much fine with it. However, being on a bus with a naked woman (and I'm guessing) large amounts of alcohol, not so much. While a lot of men can look without touching, there's some that won't be able too (again especially when alcohol is involved - so maybe she has some giant male bouncer, or not.) Because of the logistics on the bus (no real private room) if some guy wants to get a grilled cheese or hot sausage sandwich, it's gonna be right there with everyone one else on the bus (yikes!) Then, if there's a lot of alcohol fueled idiocy going on there could be cases of food poisoning later. Anyway, though I wouldn't be thrilled about my husband going, since I do trust him, I'd tell him to do what he wanted. However if you had the slightest doubts about your so, get him tested for food poisoning pronto.

    Posted by sundiego June 11, 09 03:18 PM
  1. what is a manual grilled cheese??

    Posted by R. June 11, 09 03:23 PM
  1. Im with Laurie, 51 also, and agree with spacemans post.

    I attended a recent party, and the stripper made a lot of money. I just dont like the stripper mentality. Never have. Getting all worked up by a woman you dont know and have no chance to actually have sex with is silly.

    Its split down the middle of men who slobber at these women and men who are not impressed. Im not impressed. If my sweetheart (dont have one right now) was doing the stripping, then it would be great. My advice to get out your best nighty, some candles and give him the striptease of his life with his own woman. That will make the bachelor party secondary.

    Posted by billy13 June 11, 09 03:29 PM
  1. You should get out more, Rae. Come to our LL Mixer. We're hiring a stripper. Her name is Rico.

    Posted by Sally June 11, 09 03:34 PM
  1. You should get out more, Rae. Come to our LL Mixer. We're hiring a stripper. Her name is Rico.

    Posted by Sally June 11, 09 03:34 PM
  1. This is ridiculous. No trust here whatsoever and trust is the foundation. High school jealousy here. His friend is getting married and wants him to have a good time, let them be. When he goes golfing, do you wonder if he's with another woman? Time for him to break it off.

    Posted by Flash June 11, 09 03:39 PM
  1. For those women who don't understand the nature of a man, you are the bane of our existance and are IMHO a primary cause for failed relationships. You have beliefs and expectations that we're not designed to meet. Wake up(!), men are visual, we like to look at naked women whether online, in a strip club, or in a m-zine.

    And for those men who agree with those women, you are either lying, a metro, have been whipped, or have been emasculated. Or worse, you buy into the "sex and nudity" is the root of all evil and should be controlled or outright banned, except for consenting adults, in the dark, under the covers.

    As for NAS, if you could get to the why behind the why behind the why regarding her discomfort you'd end up with only a few possibilities; lacks trust, is insecure, or "sex and nudity" is the root of all evil....

    The problem is that most people, for whatever reason, deny that we are sexual beings. Those who accept that "get it", and those that don't will forever try to push their puritan beliefs and antiquated morals on us.

    Hallelujah brothers and sisters!

    Posted by Bart June 11, 09 03:47 PM
  1. Serenity Now!!! Serenity Now!!!

    Posted by Costanza June 11, 09 03:54 PM
  1. Newsflash, folks, NAS has every right to "agree to disagree" with this whole insipid ritual, be uncomfortable, and express it. Hopefully her BF has more sensitivity than some of the nitwits on here today, and he'll be reassuring and trustworthy.

    I've heard disgusting stories from male friends who have attended bachelor parties in a "private" space with a "private" hooker, oops, stripper. The agreement is that all guys have to follow "man rules" and not tell SOs about indiscretions.

    Men on here are disparaging: telling you to shut up, put up, or be righteously dumped. Funny, though, when my female friends had bachelorette parties at male strip clubs or a wild party with men paid to provide stripper service, EVERY SINGLE ONE of their fiances was angry and lurked about, asked friends to spy, or asked partygoers to call with updates.

    Posted by yupokay June 11, 09 03:56 PM
  1. A Bachelor Party is the last sacred ritual for us men. If you fiancee hasn't had his penis severed, he will go forward with the bachelor party and have as much "fun" as humanly possible. At least until he runs out of condoms or money, whichever comes first.

    Your being completely naive if you think your man doesn't enjoy the company of young, attractive and moraly flexible women. Unless of course he is a complete F A G, and then why would you want to be beard and marry him anyways? Look, this fantasy myth of happy marriage is BS anyways. I have been married 3x and my marriages were always happiest when I was getting a little action on the side. It helped me to destress and I wouldn't come home from a bad day at work and beat my wife and kids as much.

    Let you man have a little fun. Give him your support and give me some money for a good and proper Bee Jay. Last thing you want is for him to come back from the bachelor party with an STD from a cheap stripper.

    Posted by Chief Nog June 11, 09 03:57 PM
  1. going to a club not so bad. being on a bus coming and going not so good.

    Posted by thommy June 11, 09 04:08 PM
  1. My husband's bachelor party was a big softball game, followed by going to a bar with all the softball players, followed by all coing back to the huge house party being thrown at the apt downstairs from us. Did I tell him he 'couldn't' have a party w strippers? No, of course not; we don't tell each other what to do. He just wanted a big softball game and beers.

    He has been to a few strippery parties, though; at the Foxy Lady and at other places. He comes home reeking of cheap perfume and covered with glitter; I dump him right in the shower and don't ask questions. He goes there to humor his buddies, and probably enjoys watching some t&a for a few hours.

    Do I *like* it? No, I think it is cheap and tacky. But as others have pointed out;
    1. If you are someone's friend, you do things for them that you might not do on your own. Heaven knows I have done silly things for my friends, and
    2. If he is going to cheat on you, he is going to do it no matter what, and you need to re-examine your relationship. If he is not going to cheat on you, then don't worry about it; just make him drop his clothes in the laundry and shower as soon as he gets back. That perfume is NASTY.

    Posted by Diamondgirl June 11, 09 04:11 PM
  1. I wouldn't stay with this girl...

    Let me ask you something, how different is it from watching an 'adult video'... I can find 'adult videos' on my computer that are a thousand times worse than a stripper... and if that's what I want to do what are you going to do to stop me? Where do you draw the line.

    Fact of the matter is, like everyone is saying, this is a trust issue. The writer obviously doesn't trust her boyfriend, and is looking for someone to tell her that this is alright. Well it's not. Don't put your boyfriend in such a tough place just because you can't be secure with yourself. Nothing turns me off more than a girl who isn't secure with herself. Listen, he's already with you, obviously for a reason, if he didn't want to be than he wouldn't. If he wanted to cheat, he wouldn't need to tell you he's going to a bachelor party in order to do so.

    Let's use some common sense already...

    Posted by Birdyman12 June 11, 09 04:14 PM
  1. Wow, NAS should be dumped as fast as possible. Men, never get involved with prudes like NAS and I would say half the females here. They will ruin your life and make you marriage misearable. My girlfriends does not have a jealous bone in her body, she even likes it when I go to B-Parties, hell she gave me extra money last time and told me to have fun. Why, because she is a mature woman who has self confinence. She knows I am madly in love with her and would not cheat. A bit of harmless titilation is not only good for a person, it helps with your relationship. Man you people really make me sick, grow up

    Posted by Thanos73 June 11, 09 04:17 PM
  1. Meredith Goldstein could have condensed her four paragraph response into one sentence. You should not be marrying someone if you legitimately concerned there is a chance he could cheat on you on his bachelor party.

    And if you are just bothered that he will be seeing another woman's naked body, do you keep him from watching R-rated movies too?

    Posted by Matt June 11, 09 04:31 PM
  1. Any guy who's really got it going will hardly need a stripper on a bus as a reminder of "freedom." However, different strokes...so to speak.

    Posted by Bony Melon June 11, 09 04:31 PM
  1. I'm not one of those women who pretend the stripper thing is OK just to seem cool to men. The whole concept offends me to the core.

    On the other hand, I've matured past my younger days when I went into a total panic when my now ex-husband went off to one of these bachelor parties. I would be a wreck, I would try to tell him not to go, that I was disappointed, etc. The result of this was his "fibbing" that there was no stripper action - and I don't really blame him for this, since I was treating him like a child, not a partner.

    My advice to you? Appear as non-plussed as possible about the bachelor party. Ultimately, you cannot tell another adult what he or she can or cannot do. But don't be shy about tossing some commentary out there in your conversations with him: "Well, have fun with all that, but I frankly think it's awfully silly for men your age. Not to mention kinda gross." "That should be fun, until someone gets out of control and all of you are witnesses to the lawsuit that she ultimately brings against one of you, claiming a gang-bang." "Oh, it bothers me, but mostly I have pity for the poor junkie with who-knows-what STD's swinging it in your drunken face while you cringe inside, because you, too, know it's so gross." "Well, I'm sure you'll be too worn out from all that fun stripper action to get busy with me for some time after you return, so I'll give you plenty of space in bed."
    There are ways to remind him that you are the class act and that this bus ride is gross without sounding like the shrill, uptight mother- or bossy big sister-type.

    Posted by jetta June 11, 09 04:39 PM
  1. to all the guys out there that think stripping is OK - especially in a relationship... would you date or allow your gf or wife to strip in front of men?

    Posted by allsetthanks June 11, 09 04:46 PM
  1. I'm not comfortable with the idea of strippers either (particularly the ones that make house calls), but other than telling your bf that you are uncomfortable with it, there's not much that you can do that isn't going to make you look like the bad guy. If your bf really isn't into the strippers like you say he is, he's not gonna want much to do with them anyways and you have nothing to worry about - this isn't his bach party, and they need to do what makes their friend happy. My husband is also not into the whole stripper thing (not since he was 18 anway, lol), but his best man got strippers anyway... he didn't really enjoy the night that much and wound up being home by midnight - so these things are usually not like what you see in the movies! If you're secure in your relationship, let it go - telling him he's not "allowed" to go is only going to make him angry at you.

    Posted by been there June 11, 09 04:52 PM
  1. Hoss has officially jumped the shark.

    Hoss has become Rico.

    Sally, you're being silly about Hoss.

    Posted by Jen-X June 11, 09 04:52 PM
  1. Many men on here are disgusting, ignorant and bigoted, especially #170. Married 3x and a cheater? Hey ladies, what a catch, eh? Yeah, catch some disease (that would be him).

    LOSER. You are probably the guy who always got picked last, gets frustrated that he can't afford a nice car, couldn't get a prom date, picked your acne, doesn't understand why you don't get promotions, and can only guess at what being a real man is like. Women have radar, and when you come across it, "TOTAL LOSER" comes up in bright lights. It sure did today within a nanosecond.

    Posted by SickofBigotedLosersonHere June 11, 09 04:59 PM
  1. I'm married so I know the difference between the man you marry, and the man you date, is that you trust one and not the other. Been there, done that. My guess is that you don't really trust your boyfriend (or you wouldn't be so worried about the stripper party). So, there's more of an issue here than not wanting him to see another woman naked or her putting her boobs in his face. And, all the BS about the bride not wanting it or the co-best man's wife not wanting it ... well, misery loves company. Boo hoo. Congrats for dating guys or marrying guys you don't trust 100%, that's not their problem, it's yours. Either trust the guys or don't. If this guy you're dating really was "the one" you wouldn't even been writing here.

    Posted by Just a thought June 11, 09 05:01 PM
  1. I'll add that most women here would actually be repulsed by what many guys do at "looser" strip clubs. yes, there is lots of physical contact, contact that if it happened at bar would certainly be considered cheating. but you are paying for it, there is no emotional connection, etc, so lots of guys don't consider this cheating.

    and the guys I'm talking about are happily married, upstanding professionals with kids, and who have never actually cheated on their wives. this doesn't make them bad people, it just makes them guys. I'm 36, have never cheated on a girlfriend, but have certainly had lots of physical contact at strip clubs.

    if girls refused to date guys who "cheated" like this, they would run out of eligible men. I just think many girls have no idea what goes on at some places, and on the flip side how lightly guys take this. it's not a big deal.

    Posted by Jerry June 11, 09 05:12 PM
  1. Yeah, I think the overriding theme here is that there are plenty of happy women, some even expressed on this board, who are comfortable enough with themselves and their relationship to not fall into the 75% category...

    The rest? They don't see the chicken vs. egg aspect of this phenomenon. Their insecurity feeds their operation with men, which in turn, sends said man running for the hills (aka - the next woman who hopefully DOESN'T act like THAT...) You'll notice that the women who are perfectly comfortable and secure in themselves and their relationship have men that don't need to look elsewhere for ANYTHING. They don't feel the angst of massive control freak, so they don't feel the need to operate in such a fashion... YOU are dictating how the relationship will roll on.

    Feed your insecurities and drive him away by all means... or learn to grip, grow up, and get ready for better results. (Sorry, somebody had to tell ya!)

    Women love to play this off under the guise of "if you love and respect someone, you'll do whatever you can to...". Really easy to say when you're the only person placing demands. Oh, and there's also something called the flip-side, going a little something like this: If you love and respect your partner, you'll TRUST them enough to not do things that hurt you, and you wouldn't dream of asking them to alter anything that makes them who they are...

    Yes, true compromises exist (food allergies, thermostat levels, etc.) and are a part of any healthy relationship, but you need to identify the reasons behind your demand. Jealousy and insecurity is not a worthy cause and, unfortunately, is the main force behind the majority of relationship demands. Much like the religious zealot whose insecurity causes them to FORCE others to give up whatever abortion/marriage partner/etc. that THEY don't deem worthy, thus is the operation of the standard issue relationship demand... "Give/take"? Maybe "TAKE/...er, give" is a little more appropriate?...

    Yeah, there's all of the other factors that have been mentioned: men are visual, sex and physical appreciation is NOT something to be condemned (Puritans!!!) -- there's mind AND BODY -- you can love both, either, neither, whatever... but it DOES EXIST sorry to say.

    But the overriding factor in this and 80+% of the other relationship-murdering issues is simply a case of the establishment of a "warden / inmate" relationship.

    Posted by DJMcG June 11, 09 05:17 PM
  1. Not-A-Stripper needs to RELAX. What's the worst thing that could happen? If her boyfriend is going to cheat then he is going to do it regardless of whether he has to pay a naked chick. Seriously, RELAX. If you start controlling him this way he is going to resent it.

    Posted by Karmen June 11, 09 06:26 PM
  1. I'm coming to the LL party and bringing valentino. After that, I'll write a letter about how insecure I am because this man I never met before smiled at another woman, and how will our marriage (that doesn't, and will probably never, exist) survive that? Then I'l remember the wise words of Dr. Phil "there is always going to be someone prettier than you, smarter than you ..." whether she's a stripper or a doctor or a med student putting herself through school and paying the tuition bills with her stripper income. A sad fact, but we women can be an insecure lot, and today's letter is yet more proof of that.

    Posted by reindeergirl June 11, 09 07:23 PM
  1. This is insane...

    "NAS" shouldn't worry about any of this because her BOYFRIEND (not husband as some crazed woman ranted on about here; women tend to see what they want to see) probably won't be around much longer if she starts dictating what HIS friend's bachelor party is going to be. His FRIEND, not even his own.

    At least I'm hoping he sees the signs early enough to hit the road...

    Meredith needs to start including the ages of the people writing in. Sounds like this girl isn't even 25 yet. Probably closer to 23. Just a guess... but the point is, worrying and fighting over this at this stage is really counter-productive. It is all based in jealousy and insecurity. She thinks that her boyfriend is going to get on that bus and never look back after some fairy-tale 'Pretty Woman' scenario.

    What's more likely to drive this guy away (more importantly from NAS's perspective, leaving her "alone") is constant harping on what her boyfriend 'should' and 'shouldn't' be doing.

    Sure, stick your nose in and mess up the already-in-place plans for your boyfriend's FRIEND'S bachelor party... just be prepared for the consequences when you're single again. OR, if you happen to trap your boyfriend into marrying you, don't expect to see much of his friend and his wife. Of course, that's no problem - it's not YOUR friendship you're ruining, right?

    Posted by Edzo June 11, 09 07:24 PM
  1. Give her credit, she's not doing this because she wants to. (she's a Sox fan)and wants to sleep in) Welcome to broadcascting. I'm still trying to figure out broadcasting. Has anyone figured out how Remy is?

    Posted by Anonymous June 11, 09 08:27 PM
  1. With (most) women Sex= Emotion
    With (most) men Sex= Sex
    With that said, men don't go to the strip club to find a lover (usually?) they go to get an erection from someone else. Strippers, don't strip to find a lover (Would YOU pick up a guy at a strip club? Really?) They do it for money. It speaks volumes that this guy is willing to tell his girlfriend about the potential shennanigans. It means hes a keeper. It also means this person needs to relax. She clearly has nothing to worry about.

    Posted by JK June 11, 09 08:48 PM
  1. all guys love these parties dont let them fool you.

    Posted by menace June 11, 09 09:58 PM
  1. I have a few different views on this one. In general I respect that everyone is different and I fully understand why some women are uncomfortable while others could care less. If you're a guy, and you can't understand why a woman would be upset at her man being involved, I ask you to imagine your fiancee saying "ok fine, for my night of fun I'm going to BE a stripper at a bachelor party". Do you have any jealous feelings at all about how she would be interacting with the guys? Then you should respect how the girl feels and be willing to have honest conversations about it.

    That being said I'm bisexual. My boyfriend and I have discussed that if we decide to tie the knot, we BOTH get to have a party with female strippers.

    Posted by solvera June 11, 09 09:59 PM
  1. Strippers are in strip clubs. Escorts and outcall entertainers go on buses. I've worked in strip clubs for 10 years, and I would not be happy if my husband went partying with a sex worker.

    Posted by stripandgrowrich June 12, 09 05:39 AM
  1. OK, Armegeddon is near, I actually agree with Rico. (someone get me commited please). It all comes down to trust, plain and simple. (that and the fact if they want to be mental midgets and spend $500 to hire a stripper, more power to them....the ding dongs). Granted, I personally feel it's degrading to women that they choose to take off their clothes for money, period. I understand why some have to, and it's sad.
    I was blessed, even though I grew up in a single parent home, it was a loving and stable home, with a mother that was strong, both in mind and spirit and taught me how to respect myself, NEVER settle for less and reach for the stars. I'm lucky, not so many women are. I've seen so many stories where women are doing this to survive, it makes my stomach churn. But at the same time, there are other options.

    Posted by Anonymous June 12, 09 06:12 AM
  1. Spaceman is right. Let your man know how you'll be waiting for him when he gets home and you'll have nothing to worry about!

    Posted by Gerry June 12, 09 07:12 AM
  1. Interesting perspectives here. I fall in the camp of preferring my guy (single now) NOT to go to strip clubs because I'll admit it, it feels threatening to imagine your guy getting a grind on with a hot woman. Having said that and as crazy as it sounds, I'd much rather go with my man and experience the fantasy together. In fact, I did this with an ex of mine and it was a very (make that VERY) nice experience. There was something freeing about being in a place (literally and figuratively) of letting our guards down and allowing each other to watch the other get a lap dance. If he had went by himself, I feel like there's an element of the unknown....like WHAT exactly is going on over there? How cute are they? How turned on is he by the? Is there a chapagne room and what is going on in there?

    As for the stripper party tradition for bachelors, I too never got that "last hurrah" thing either. It just seems odd that a night or two before such an intimate ceremony with the loveof your life that some unknown woman is grinding on the groom to be's erect...well you get the point.

    Yes...we are all sexual beings, but I don't think that means carte blanche either for men to feel entitled to getting fondled and rubbed on by a topless woman with a thong on IF his significant other feels uncomfortable with it. Would it be ok if your woman was in an elevator and eyed a handsome man and allowed him to feel her up, blow in her ear, and have her stroke his thonged butt? If she came home from work and said that happened, would you just shrug your shoulders and say, "glad you had fun today in tune with your sexual being self?" Maybe to a few men, that would be ok...and if you're the type that likes strip clubs, then that's the type of woman for you. It's all about compatibility.

    And yes, the stripper on the bus sounds extremely fishy. Call me paranoid, but that sounds like a recipe for shenanigans that wouldn't happen at a legit strip club. Something tells me that as the bus roars down the highway, some guys are going to be gettng lots of personal attention as they sit in their seats.

    Many people have said, well if a guy is going to cheat, he'll cheat anytime, but not necessarily. It's a well-studied fact that there are pact mentalities....not just with things like this, but with crime, etc. What someone might not do on their own without a crowd changes what they will do in a crowd. So, anyone could have all the intention in the world of not cheating in "normal" circumstances, but throw a thonged woman on their lap, with guys drinking, hooting, and hollering, and a feeling of escapism in the moment, it's not a stretch to see that someone would succumb to that type of situation.

    Having said that, I have mixed feelings about whether she should forbid it. Tough situation. I also have to laugh at the people who said if something happens, she'll know about it. Ugh....really? That assumes one of his friends will out him or he'll confess. This is a situation where she just might not know if her boyfriend who claims he's not into strippers may get a grilled cheese sandwich (sorry folks that say they're tired of this!), or more from miss stripper on the bus. You may just have to see how the rest of the relationship is. Are you in love with him? Do you want to marry him someday? If you're not sure yet, then use this as another element in figuring out if he's right for YOU.

    Posted by bklynmom June 12, 09 07:23 AM
  1. I just want to answer your basic question. You are not the only woman that hates the idea of strippers. If men didn't get aroused at these things they wouldn't go. My husband has been to them, had one at his party and I hated it. I didn't tell him not to go, but I did tell him how upset it made me. His compromise was that he didn't get too drunk and came home "relatively" early. Most strippers that go outside the club are also prostitutes, I have heard way too many disgusting stories. It make me sick to my stomach, but at the end I have to agree that there isn't much that you can do considering your man is not different than most men. Good luck trying to find a man that wouldn't go to a stripper.

    Posted by Anonymous June 12, 09 08:50 AM
  1. Halston, Gucci, Fiorucci

    Posted by val June 12, 09 09:20 AM
  1. NAS, This is NOT a control issue on your part. It has nothing to do with control. Your feelings about this are your best radar and your radar is working perfectly and signaling danger, just like it is supposed to. This has to do with you and your values and is not about some evil,self-serving or warped desire to control your bf. To me, it just means there is something going on that is threatening to you and your values and the kind of people and experiences you want in your life.

    I'd be curious to know the percentage of private strippers who serve grilled cheese sandwiches and other intimate dishes at bachelor parties...I have been told by male friends that grilled cheese has been served to the groom-to-be and in another instance, the entire wedding party (some weird bonding ritual?) ..lots of alcohol, peer pressure and difficulty saying "no thanks" in that scenario. It all just reeks of immaturity, disrespect, and slime...hardly the way I'd want to be starting a marriage...or want to be associated with for that matter.

    I wonder if your bf is conflicted with his duty as best man in following through with the grooms request and his own values and that's why brought it up an he told you about it. I'd want to talk about it more with my bf and be open with my concerns an fears. I wouldn't give an ultimatum, personally, since people have to do what seems right to them..but if I didn't feel reassured and comforted with the way the discussions went, I'd be considering if this was the right relationship for me. Good luck to you and your bf.

    Posted by MegLovesRain June 12, 09 09:45 AM
  1. NAS, This is NOT a control issue on your part. It has nothing to do with control. Your feelings about this are your best radar and your radar is working perfectly and signaling danger, just like it is supposed to. This has to do with you and your values and is not about some evil,self-serving or warped desire to control your bf. To me, it just means there is something going on that is threatening to you and your values and the kind of people and experiences you want in your life.

    I'd be curious to know the percentage of private strippers who serve grilled cheese sandwiches and other intimate dishes at bachelor parties...I have been told by male friends that grilled cheese has been served to the groom-to-be and in another instance, the entire wedding party (some weird bonding ritual?) ..lots of alcohol, peer pressure and difficulty saying "no thanks" in that scenario. It all just reeks of immaturity, disrespect, and slime...hardly the way I'd want to be starting a marriage...or want to be associated with for that matter.

    I wonder if your bf is conflicted with his duty as best man in following through with the grooms request and his own values and that's why brought it up an he told you about it. I'd want to talk about it more with my bf and be open with my concerns an fears. I wouldn't give an ultimatum, personally, since people have to do what seems right to them..but if I didn't feel reassured and comforted with the way the discussions went, I'd be considering if this was the right relationship for me. Good luck to you and your bf.

    Posted by MegLovesRain June 12, 09 09:47 AM
  1. Here's a different perspective. There are some religious communities that actually think the body is sacred and meant to be shared with your intended partner only. (I am not talking about radical fundamentalists here.) So while in certain circles the strippers seem perfectly acceptable other traditions embrace a completely different tradition to prepare for their wedding day (such as prayer, meditation, etc).

    The other thing is that I agree that you need to let your boyfriend do what he needs to do. You can't control other people. You can only change yourself. Why don't you take this as an opportunity for self reflection and personal growth.

    Posted by moriah June 12, 09 10:05 AM
  1. 1. I know a guy who has been regularly cheating on his wife (before and after the marriage) and he had a party with strippers and didn't cheat on her that night. Go figure right? If someone is going to cheat, they will cheat in any number of circumstances. If someone is going to be coerced by peer pressure to do more than looking with a stripper because everyone is cheering and pouring beer down his throat- well I think you would know if your bf were that easily pressured into doing things he didn't really want to.

    2. I don't get the argument when people say, Why is a guy getting a dance from a stripper considered ok just because money changes hands? A few people have argued this point- that it's not ok to do that just because there's money involved. So, what if she was dating an actor that got paid to kiss, dry hump, and have sexy love scenes with another hot woman ok? Would that be forbidden because he can't kiss anyone but her, period. Or is it then ok because he's the one getting the money?

    3. You can't tell you bf what to do for his buddy's bachelor party, but did he think about going to a strip club before heading to Foxwoods rather than having a stripper on a bus. Private party strippers are 99% of the time prostitutes who call themselves strippers to not get arrested. Doesn't mean something is bound to happen, but the option for something else is much more prevalent in private parties versus clubs.

    4. And, along with the "if he's going to cheat, he'll do it under any number of circumstances." Don't think that the hot women hanging out at Foxwoods who see a group of guys on a bachelor party wouldn't be a lot more enticing than a stripper.... (Sorry, didn't want to make you more paranoid than you already are.)

    Posted by Skyler June 12, 09 02:19 PM
  1. 1. I know a guy who has been regularly cheating on his wife (before and after the marriage) and he had a party with strippers and didn't cheat on her that night. Go figure right? If someone is going to cheat, they will cheat in any number of circumstances. If someone is going to be coerced by peer pressure to do more than looking with a stripper because everyone is cheering and pouring beer down his throat- well I think you would know if your bf were that easily pressured into doing things he didn't really want to.

    2. I don't get the argument when people say, Why is a guy getting a dance from a stripper considered ok just because money changes hands? A few people have argued this point- that it's not ok to do that just because there's money involved. So, what if she was dating an actor that got paid to kiss, dry hump, and have sexy love scenes with another hot woman ok? Would that be forbidden because he can't kiss anyone but her, period. Or is it then ok because he's the one getting the money?

    3. You can't tell you bf what to do for his buddy's bachelor party, but did he think about going to a strip club before heading to Foxwoods rather than having a stripper on a bus. Private party strippers are 99% of the time prostitutes who call themselves strippers to not get arrested. Doesn't mean something is bound to happen, but the option for something else is much more prevalent in private parties versus clubs.

    4. And, along with the "if he's going to cheat, he'll do it under any number of circumstances." Don't think that the hot women hanging out at Foxwoods who see a group of guys on a bachelor party wouldn't be a lot more enticing than a stripper.... (Sorry, didn't want to make you more paranoid than you already are.)

    Posted by Skyler June 12, 09 02:19 PM
  1. I think the bottom line here is everyone is different. Some people approve of going to strip clubs, some don't. Some women are insecure, some are not. Some men like strippers, some don't (though I have a tough time with believing there are men that don't like strippers; I think they probably just don't admit to liking them to keep their insecure gfs happy). Bottom line: if you don't like your bf seeing strippers and can't tolerate it, dump his ass. You'll both be better off.

    btw, the difference between strippers and prostitutes is not black-and-white. Some strippers (club or house-call) will go above and beyond the call of duty; others will not. It just depends. And while some of them might be exploited, there are plenty of men that get exploited by these women as well.

    Posted by Zen Master June 19, 09 09:15 AM
  1. i agree that strippers are gross and would not want any at my own bachelorette party. i would not want them at a fiance's bachelor party either, but as long as contact was kept to a minimum (no touching or naked lap dances) i dont think its something to be calling off the wedding over, as long as its not a habit and there is nothing inappropriate going on.

    as for the strippers who make house calls, a good amount of them do sexual favors for money, therefore making them prostitutes. i guess its less of a demeaning name to say you are a stripper than a hooker? who knows. its similar to the exotic section on craigs list. they offer "massages" but we all know those massages have happy endings most of the time. its the worlds oldest profession, its not going anywhere anytime soon. so we all just have to deal with it i guess. find yourself a guy who isnt into that stuff and you will be fine.

    if you make this bachelor party more about you than about the husband to be you are making a mistake. you arent the bride and you say your boyfriend isnt into that stuff anyway so its not your problem to worry about. if the bride to be and the other co-best man's wife have a problem with it, let them bring it up. otherwise you will come off as controlling.

    Posted by dont take it personal June 22, 09 03:08 PM
  1. This is ridiculous. Of COURSE she has a right to tell her boyfriend she is uncomfortable with him hanging around naked women with their junk jiggling around in his face. Why? Because the idea behind a monogamous relationship is that anything sexual occurs between the two of them. Strippers are a flirtation with cheating. Even if he is not the bachelor, he is still drunkenly hanging out with a near prostitute. To that idiot Hoss above, please never ever find yourself in a relationship. Bachelors for life are perfectly acceptable as long no one expects you to love and respect them.

    Posted by Jess June 22, 09 10:35 PM
  1. I'm in a similar predicament. My bf is the best man in a wedding, and one of the other groomsmen is dead set on going to a strip club and then having fun in a hotel room afterwards. The groom hasn't yet voiced any opinion, but I think he's expecting strippers at the very least. My boyfriend was ready to go along with it, but now that I've become very upset about it, he doesn't know what to do.
    I think that paying women to sell their sexuality is horrible, and from what I know, women would only become stippers because they''ve been sexually abused and/or because they're destitute. While I don't care about my bf seeing other naked women, the though of him seeing women who have been completely objectified makes my skin crawl. My opinion is that if our commited partners do this, then they shouldn't mind us hiring men to do sexual favors for us as well.

    Posted by Peaches June 30, 09 11:27 PM
  1. It is definitely still a man's world as you can see from the answers here.

    There are many levels at which your boyfriend's participation in or planning a party of this type is wrong and disrespectful. First, it makes you uncomfortable, as it should. Second, it is disrespectful to the bride and makes her uncomfortable. The whole tradition gives the middle finger to the wedding and the girlfriends/brides. It demonstrates the sense of entitlement of men, and the difficulty women have speaking up. The fact that parties with strange naked women have become a normalized event before weddings is no doubt one of the reasons that marriages have such trouble surviving. Comparing this tradition to that of buying an expensive dress is ludicrous. Here are the bride and groom, celebrating the most important commitment of their lives. And what does the groom do--he brings in strippers. And the bride is supposed to just shut up and be cool. Finally, as much as everyone wails that strippers and prostitutes are different, they are really on the same spectrum, unless you consider that sexual activity is just intercourse. Most people consider foreplay, arousal, getting undressed, grinding on someone etc as part of the sexual experience. Strippers provide a sexual arousal service that is part of the spectrum of a sexual experience. Finally, strippers that make house calls, especially for bachelor parties, often provide actual sex. Because many women are so insecure that they have to put up with this rubbish doesn't mean that you have to as well.

    Posted by mulanstout July 10, 09 01:47 AM
  1. Why is a boyfriend or sig other having actual sex with another person the only unfaithful thing they can do!?!? To me... if my husband watches, pays for, gets touched by, or enjoys a naked lady and gets turned on by it as his entertainment for the night... that's absolutely a form of unfaithfulness.
    Stop and consider that divorce rates are through the roof. Well MAYBE the fact than mens minds are littered with sexy, oiled up, naked chicks that are there to pleasure them (even if just mentally). I see it like poison but culture see's it as HARMLESS??
    My husband knows that I do not at all approve of strip clubs and so it would be unloyal for him to go to one for any reason. I'm very thankful he has that kind of respect for me.

    Posted by Tressa July 23, 09 11:55 AM
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Meredith Goldstein is a Boston Globe columnist who follows relationship trends and entertainment. She offers daily advice on Love Letters — and welcomes your comments. Meredith is also the author of "The Singles," a novel about complicated relationships. Follow Meredith at www.meredithgoldstein.netand on Twitter. Love Letters can be found in the print edition of The Boston Globe every Saturday in the G section.

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