Thomas F. Reilly
Excerpts from Tom Reilly's interview with the Boston Globe editorial board
REILLY: I've had in my hands over the last eight years some very important matters for Massachusetts -- education reform and Harvard Pilgrim. The clergy sex abuse with the church. The removal of President Bulger. Global warming and even yesterday with our efforts to reform the off-shoreman's union of Boston. It reflects my best thinking over, my God, the last 23 years of public service as to what has to happen. I'll be brief here, but I believe I have the experience and the independence for the job, but I also know what's wrong, and I also know what needs to be done to get the state back on track again.... I just want to focus very quickly on one [issue] because it lies at the core of why I'm running for governor and that's education.
I'm not going to get into it here because we don't have enough time. And I have a lot to cover. But I was born and raised in Springfield. I went to the public schools from K-9. Those public schools saved me. I had a lot of tragedy in my life. I almost dropped out of school in the ninth grade. A lot of things happened. But when I got my chance, that education and those first years absolutely saved me. And it wasn't just math and science -- Springfield public schools were excellent. Excellent. It was culture. It was art. It was the symphony. It was the music. It was every dimension that you want as a person. I had. So, I caused my own problems in terms of not reacting, not giving school the attention. I barely graduated from high school, but I got my chance. And the point is -- those schools saved me. And I've never forgotten that.
And it lies at the heart of why I'm running for governor. I'm going to just take you -- I'm going to just tell you a little bit about -- because in a few weeks' time, there will be a whole new class of ninth graders who will enter the public schools. And when I talk about education, I'm talking about the public schools. Nine out of 10 children in Massachusetts get their education in public schools. I want to tell you what's going to happen to those kids if things don't change. Over 14 percent will drop out before their senior year. That is 10,000 kids a year. Now, in my experience, and you'll see an overlap throughout the course of it, I know where a good portion of them are going to end up. And I know what that is going to cost us in the long run. There will be 52 percent -- 52 percent -- who will go on to college. Only 40 percent of them will make it to the second year. There are a lot of reasons for that. A lot of them will not be ready for college, and they will give up or -- and a lot of them can't afford it. But only 40 percent will make it to the second year. Less than 30 percent will graduate. About 29 percent will graduate. Now, that's shameful for a state that prides itself on education.
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If we're not turning out highly skilled highly educated people, we are in serious trouble. And we are in serious trouble. And that is not happening now. You will see, as we go in to some of the details of this, I have laid out a seamless system of public education, starting with the early childhood education all the way through the University of Massachusetts. But let's zero in on early childhood education because it offends me what Romney does with programs like this. If you go out, particularly in those areas where these kids are dropping out -- we're having problems in urban areas. We need these children in a school setting as early as three and four years old. We need to get them as quickly as we can ready to go to school and ready to learn. We also need to identify what problems are happening and going on so we can address those problems before it is too late for these children. You will see an emphasis on math and science that no other candidate is proposing because we have to do that.
That is the key to our economy. That is where the jobs are going to come. That's where the competitiveness is going to come. You will see an emphasis on public higher education that this state has never seen before because -- I could not go to college today and that's just the truth. We had no money, and there's a lot of people who don't have any money, but I could afford to work my way through college and then work my way through Boston College Law School. I could not do that today. I don't know where I'd be today. You could say, well, you could borrow it -- but if you don't have anything, trying to borrow something is just overwhelming when you look at those numbers. That is the hope of this state. All three levels, at community college, at our state colleges, and at our University of Massachusetts. And what is happening here is shortchanging our students, shortchanging this state.
There isn't -- and tell me when you want me to stop because I'm willing to. This is serious business. There is no alignment, very little alignment, between our community college and our workforce needs of our economy. You wonder why North Carolina is whipping us bad? They're turning out students with degrees in technology. We're not. Last year, in our entire community college system, we graduated 13 with degrees, associate's degrees, in technology. Thirteen. Seven -- that's a two-year course -- seven, which is a one-year course, with certificates in technology. North Carolina, 859 with two-year associate's degrees. Over 500 with one-year certificates. We need math teachers in our public schools....
Let me talk one last thing about the University of Massachusetts. It is not where it should be, and that's being kind. There's a real need, and I am going to invest in them. I'm going to invest in them in two ways. University of Massachusetts will not just be a place to go to school and get an education. We have developed a "Years to Jobs" program proposal to use, and the beauty of this is that they're in all five regions of the state -- at the UMass campuses in Amherst, Worcester, Lowell, Boston, and UMass Dartmouth -- to turn those into economic entities for development. Investing in the research and development capabilities of all of those campuses and turn those ideas into jobs.
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INCOME TAX ROLLBACK
Q: The investments that you've described here in the UMass system especially and in early childhood education and all of these -- making sure people get the remedial help they need in terms of passing the MCAS -- anyway, they are a substantial investment, and I'm wondering how that reconciles with your position on the income tax rollback, you know, which takes a slight amount of revenue off of the table. Some people think that that was a decision you made looking ahead to November, just thinking, let's take this off the table as an issue that the Republicans can beat me up over. And I'm wondering if that went into your thinking. And how you reconcile those two things.
REILLY: No. Absolutely not. It had to do with restoring confidence in government. That's what it had to do with.
Q: And since the people voted for this, then they should be --
REILLY: And they voted for it in pretty close to a landslide in terms of what they wanted. I have supported the freeze at 5.3, because we could -- we were running record deficits and I supported that. But we are not at that place right now. Things have changed. Over the last three years, we have had additional revenues of $1 billion dollars. Each and every year we're projected to have at least $1 billion in additional revenues next year, so we can afford it.
Taking a step back, what this is about for me, and what I believe this state needs now, is a governor who can set priorities and a governor who can govern. And this is about governing. We've had 16 straight years of people who do not believe in government. And we can get into it, and I can give you examples up and down where they have decimated the state government. They do not believe in it. Governing is a tough job. It is a tough job. It is about setting priorities, and it is about making decisions and holding people accountable. I know there are savings to be had in state government in the budget, and I'll tell you where they are. We have a Medicaid program right now that is not managed properly. I am not talking about cutting out benefits; I'm just talking about dealing with fraud and managing the controls that that system needs. There is an independent analysis of well over $1 billion dollars -- $1.3 billion dollars -- to be saved over a three-year period in the Medicaid program. We have a state procurement program where there are hundreds of millions of dollars to be saved in just how the state goes about purchasing. They're there and those are real.
We've got to cut out the nonsense. It cannot be business as usual where we excuse these things from happening. But the end all in all of this is to grow this into great jobs, and that is going to require a governor who is going to develop a relationship with the business community and move this state forward. And -- I don't even say this respectfully because I have a lot of problems with what they've done to the state -- Mitt Romney and Kerry Healey are not a tough act to follow in job creation and growing this economy. And if I can't do a better job than them, then I will be tremendously disappointed in myself personally. You can grow this economy. You govern. You manage. You set priorities. You can do this. I know I can do this. And I believe I can do this, otherwise, I wouldn't be saying it. I thought long and hard about whether or not I would run for governor. And as you know, people realized that about me. I enjoyed being Attorney General. This is a big step for me, and I've thought long and hard about it, but I'm not going to sit back and watch them do to this state what's happening. I sat back, thought long and hard about it, and then I said, can you do this? And how can you do this? And that's in here. That's the thinking behind it.... Get people to believe in their government again. We have to. We have to do that. We have to restore that confidence in government. I've made government work every place I've been.
WASTE AND ABUSE IN GOVERNMENT
Q: I've been hearing about Medicaid fraud and abuse for a long time, and I'm sure there's something to that, but it's hard to get at . I mean, three or four years ago, a lot of folks were saying that there was a lot of fraud and abuse in the Big Dig.... Now, you've been in charge of that for three years now.
REILLY: No.
Q: Two years?
REILLY: A year and a half.
Q3:Well, the people you've personally been in charge of -- you folks haven't been able to extract a penny from all of those deep pockets....
REILLY: Well, first of all, don't be too sure that that chapter has been, that final chapter has been written. There has been an unhealthy relationship between (inaudible) and Modern for that matter -- Modern and the Mass Highway, the Turnpike Authority, as well as the federal highways for many, many years. And it has caused a total imbalance in terms of protecting taxpayers. You've got a contract that limits liability at $150 million and that's crazy. That's absolutely crazy. But they signed it. And they signed it. And they signed it. And they signed it. Year after year after year. I'm fairly confident at this point -- when I leave here I'll be going to another briefing on this -- I'm very confident that not only will we get to the bottom of this pretty quickly, but we will be able to hold people accountable financially and otherwise for what has happened here for the very first time in the history of this project. Because that contract's going to stop if I get to where I'm going now. It doesn't protect them from what I'm going at.
Q: Which is what --
REILLY: No -- that $150 million dollar act only comes into place for certain acts. Not broader acts. If I can prove -- well, I have to be careful here. I'm going to a briefing in about an hour. And I know --
Q: Is there going to be any news coming out of this soon?
REILLY: There will be some answers here. Yes.
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HEALTH CARE
REILLY: And the other thing I forgot to mention is that I do want to talk about healthcare. We can't go on like this. You can't go on like this as a company. We can't go on like this as a state. Individuals can't go on like this until we get control over spending in healthcare. And I have a lot of experience in this in terms of dealing with Harvard Pilgrim, Beth Israel, all of the hospitals. We have to make it -- we have to improve access -- and the legislature has gone a long way, but the next governor better know something about healthcare. We have to make it more affordable. And the way we are going to do that -- and the government is the largest purchaser of healthcare -- it's one-quarter of the budget right now, and growing and growing and growing. It's better use of information technology. It's cutting down the administrative costs.
One-third the amount of money we are spending on healthcare is spent on administrative costs. Back and forth -- forms back and forth -- doctors spending one-third of their time making out -- we have to make major reforms in that we have to do a better job. We know what the big budget drivers are. We know it's asthma. It's diabetes. Heart conditions. Kidney failure. We have to identify them as early on, and manage them more effectively and more efficiently, and we have to do a better job at getting, at prevention with healthier lifestyles in people with everything from obesity to all of the other cost drivers that are driving us to a point where we can't afford this. If you reign in, and I've looked at this budget -- you've got to stop it from going, from continuing to go on with this Medicaid program. You can just stop that and keep that money in their savings -- if you keep that money in the system, you not only bring that in, but then you will have enough for making sure that this program, that the act the legislature passed, works.
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EDUCATION
Q: I've seen nothing in terms of innovation as far as the Ed reform.... what would your reform, Ed reform stage two, priorities be? ...
REILLY: It would be probably threefold. And again, this -- the first part to be phased would be early childhood education, voluntary programs, three- and four-year-olds. And we would start to phase that in over time. You would see a focus on improving math and science skills dramatically. There are 500 teachers teaching in our public schools right now that are not certified to teach math and science. We are going to track those teachers, and part of that will be tied into scholarships -- getting more kids to take math and science as a priority for them. Again, North Carolina is whipping us pretty bad on that.
Q: Would you pay math and science teachers more?
REILLY: Pardon?
Q: Would you pay them more?
REILLY: Everything has to be on the table. If I had to do it, yes, I would. Yes, I would.... We have problems. We have to solve those problems. And we have to find ways of solving those problems, and that's not just math and science teachers. We are losing most of our young and talented teachers in the first five years. We have an outmoded system of paying them, and we have to look at that. If you see an increase in math and science, and you will see an end to the achievement gap. That's what you will see....
People are leaving the profession. My wife is a teacher and she's told me to be careful here because how do you go about it fairly. And I do believe that there are other parts of the country that have done it. Minnesota has done it with the unions. Denver has done it with the unions. We are changing the way we pay teachers, and I believe we can do it here. I'm proposing pilot projects that will be collectively bargained with the unions to give -- let's give this a try and let's see where we go with this.
Q: Another area of demand besides math and science is English as a Second Language teachers. Some people say that they, too, should be given a boost in pay, but it made me think about the bilingual education, the flaws, and the vow of reversal that went into effect, and I'm wondering what you think about how that's working, the new bilingual education system.
REILLY: It's not working perfectly, but the quicker that students learn English, the better off that they are going to be. And do we have to take into account that it's easier, the adaptability is easier the younger they are? The older they are it's harder, so I do think we have to make some adjustments, but the quicker they learn English and become proficient in English, the better off they're going to be.
Q: Of course, that's a law that was passed by the voters as well, just like the income tax rollback.
REILLY: But it needs to be --
Q: It still needs to be adjusted. Right?
REILLY: It needs to be implemented --
Q: Implemented?
REILLY: -- but it's like MCAS.
Q: Yeah.
REILLY: I've worked hard, as others -- I'm not going to send -- I've worked hard at making sure that there is an appeals process in the MCAS that is fair, and most of the kids that take advantage or use the appeals process are finding that it's working. You just can't be inflexible.
Q: Could you give us [more] about early childhood --
REILLY: Early childhood in math and science and to put an end to the achievement gap. That's the biggest civil rights issue of our time. It's happening. These kids are still being left behind. And that's, you know, what bothers me about it. Through remediation, these kids are every bit as good as any other kid, and he vetoed the remediation, the monies for remediation. He doesn't even see these kids. Give them some help, extra help. And they will make -- they will restore their pride and their sense of self-esteem and education. That's what does it. It's the great equalizer. Otherwise, I wouldn't be sitting here.
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HUMAN SERVICES AND MANAGING GOVERNMENT
REILLY: I stepped into the office of District Attorney in Middlesex County in '90, '91. There were massive cutbacks, but I still thought of how I'd get the job done. You've got to go in. You've got to manage correctly, but you have to set your priorities. In terms of human services, you have to look at those programs, what's working, what's not working, and work to make it work better. This is pretty much across the board. It's human services, it's the -- what stands out in all of this Big Dig news is the stunning lack of expertise within the state agencies that were overseeing this. I'm talking about Mass Highway and the Turnpike Authority....
Now, what I've been able to do, and I'm proud of this -- I'm very proud of this -- is build an office, and when I leave an office, it's ready -- I've built, I've attracted talented people to it. And I'm hoping I can spark a renaissance in state government... Martha Coakley stepped right in behind me as district attorney of Middlesex County and she would be an outstanding Attorney General. Gerry Leone is coming in right behind her. We have a system -- a system of making government work -- and that's been done. There is no one in the Big Dig who could say that.
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LEADERSHIP- PEOPLE TO WORK WITH
Q: How do you make decisions? This is kind of a philosophical question, but you know, you're faced with something -- how do you go about, in general, making a decision?
REILLY: I do best when I have people in the environment that I try to create -- it's an environment of getting, attracting talent, and then letting that talent go and come up with ideas. And then hearing them out and having different perspectives. OK. You're saying this. What are you saying? What do you think should come in? And getting as many different points of view that I can get. And when I do that, then I will make the very best possible decisions about getting the widest group of people, and then you narrow it obviously. But it's getting a wide perspective of ideas and different viewpoints, and then challenging those viewpoints, and narrowing a group of people who are going to challenge me and my beliefs and my -- I know my strengths, but I also know my weaknesses.
And I have people around -- I've always tried to compensate, and you will see, the way I manage, is not to -- I have strong, independent people around me. Dean Richmond, first assistant. Martha Coakley, Gerry Leone, Stephanie LaValle -- these are some good people. They challenge, and then we make good decisions that way. They may not be perfect, but they make good decisions. I cast with a wide net and then try to narrow it down. But I want people to challenge what I'm thinking and challenge their own thinking. There was a brouhaha in the office over MCAS -- because of MCAS -- because part of the office was saying that this is a civil rights issue. You should be suing these people who keep insisting you put out the MCAS results, and another group saying, well, this is the government. This is what we can do. I heard all of those arguments. I went down to see Tom Payzant, and I said Tom, what do you think? He said, you have to do this because -- you can't sweep this under the rug anymore. People have to know it's one test for everybody and, you know, that's how I do it. You know, I reached outside and I went down to see him and he said, you have to do this. And I went back and I did it.
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
Q: Let me go back to, if I could, your comments about economic development and how the governor has done a poor job and you will do better. I'm just curious to know a little more about that. He's had a couple of very smart people... working on economic development. Where has he failed that you would do or propose?
REILLY: Well, one thing -- it's quite remarkable that for a Republican Governor who prides himself, or who pride themselves, on their management ability and they have -- there is about 15 different state agencies dealing with economic development and that has to be streamlined. You would have thought that he would have done that, so that it'd be a streamlined approach to economic development in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. That has to happen. The most important -- he's a very talented man. No question about that. He's a very talented man. If he had wanted to do the job, could he have done it? Yes, he could have.
It depends on what the policy is, but if you wanted to govern people, you keep going. He never stopped campaigning, so he never took the time to make things work. And that -- I am totally different. This is where I live. I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to pay attention to this job and I'm going to get this job done. It's about establishing an entirely different relationship with the state government and the business community. And not telling them what to do. It's listening to their needs and then helping them grow this economy and create jobs. It's working with them to cutting down some of the barriers to growth and development. You know, we're getting -- you've got Lynch on the phone everyday -- God bless him. He's doing what he should do for New Hampshire, and the governor of Rhode Island is doing what he's getting. They're going to get some competition from me to keep businesses here. Who are they? Where are they? What are the ones I need? How do I help you? How do I help you grow? How do I help you develop?
We're going to be doing that, and we're going to be selling this state and selling Massachusetts, so it's streamlining state government, but it's an entirely different attitude than we had before. And it's going to go a long way in this state. It's gone a long way in their states -- getting a governor who's engaged with the business community -- who's not just telling them what to do. So, when he wanted -- when he wants to get something done, he can get it done. He's just not paying attention. We just need a full-time governor, really. But we haven't had one in quite a while. And if I accomplish -- if I accomplish what I'm setting out to accomplish -- on health care, I'm going to help everyone. I'm going to help the business community. I'm going to help state government. And I'm going to help individuals if I do this. No one else is willing to tackle this.
EXPERIENCE IN GOVERNMENT
Q:Can you talk a little more about your pride in establishing government and (inaudible) work well. Your two opponents have never been in government. In the lieutenant governor's race, you've got one officeholder. So, essentially four of the six candidates for these major jobs are not state political people. Does your experience and your record turn out to be a plus politically?
REILLY: Hey, listen, we have a record. W hen you come from the private sector -- no one knows what you did. And it's hard to find out because there is privacy, there is confidentiality agreements -- there is all kinds of that -- so you don't know what people did day to day and you don't know what they did right and you don't know what they did wrong -- you're buying something totally unknown. And that goes for -- I mean, the only one who has any semblance of a record right now, but given the dominance of Mitt Romney, she doesn't have one. In either race, you don't know who these people are, you don't know what they've done. You don't know what they have. I've been measured. I've been tested. I've been in very difficult situations, and I've come through time after time after time. Do I think it's a -- that it's an advantage? That experience is an advantage? Yeah. I believe very strongly that it's an advantage, but I also believe that...
I've been in ... life and death situations where I had to make decisions and I had to stand behind those decisions, as attorney general all the way through. It's a big deal stepping in and taking responsibility for Harvard Pilgrim. One million members lost their health insurance over night. A lot of responsibility, but I've been tested on that and I've had to make those decisions, you know. You don't know how they'll perform. Maybe they'll perform well. Maybe they won't. How do you know? You can't tell because they've never been in that kind of situation. I know what I want to do.
Q:My question was really whether that argument sells?
REILLY: Well, we'll find out. People know that this is a serious job. It's not a hobby, and it's not, you know, hey -- I think I'll be governor. OK. I think they realize -- I don't know if you start there. But we'll see. We'll see.
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT- UMASS
Q: If we can get back to economic development for a second -- your economic development plan, at least the one that is listed on your Web site, as it relates to higher education, talks extensively about reinvesting in University of Massachusetts. There isn't as much in terms of the private institutions, and I'm wondering if that's a ... philosophical view of yours -- that the public institutions are more important... What should the governor's office be doing with regards to the private universities to improve business development, say?
REILLY: I certainly recognize and appreciate the importance of our wonderful, private colleges and universities. They are a tremendous strength in this state. What I know I can do -- there is no cohesiveness going on right now between the public and private academic and medical centers in state government. I hope to bring all of those together so that everyone is working together in a comprehensive plan. By focusing upon the public higher education, for a number of reasons, number one, the affordability of it, for most families, in Massachusetts. And the importance of it, because regionally it allows me to organize an economic development plan around those campuses. But would I expect those private universities to be part of that?... Yes, I would. Yes, I would. I think we're at a point now when we need to work together.
For instance, a good example is stem cell research. Harvard is doing a wonderful job in this. If we can compliment them, they're making some major investments, and maybe we can do some other things with some of our other investments. So we all need to be on the same page here. And that's what's happening -- and that's why, one of the reasons why North Carolina is beating us at math. Not just say North Carolina, but when you're competing against North Carolina, they are all on the same page. You've got the governor, the legislature, the business community, media -- whoever you're competing with, they're on the same page, and that's what we need to do. I would look forward to a situation where it's -- if it's in Boston, it would have our major universities dealing with UMass Boston -- now, there are examples of this. I don't want to suggest to you that that is not happening. University of Lowell has some partnerships, with BU, with the University of New Hampshire as well I think, but they have some partnerships. There are partnerships -- I will build those. I'm not ignoring the private colleges. Will we leverage that? Yes. We'll leverage their strength. I need their help in the research and development that's going on at Harvard and at MIT.... Is it going to happen informally or formally? A lot of it is --
Q: So your kind of thinking is kind of this floating ad hoc conversation that happens --
REILLY: It's happening formally and informally, but it's about building those relationships and those partnerships and they're based upon trust and confidence.
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ON HIS CAMPAIGN
Q: One of the biggest decisions you made in the last couple of years is choosing a [potential running mate] -- you settle on a person who assumes her record, so there's any transparency whatsoever, and she's probably not the right person for the job. ... That was a critical decision. Can you talk a little bit about that?
REILLY: Sure. I hired Marie St. Fleur right out of law school and I've known her for 17 years. She did an outstanding job for me as an Assistant District Attorney in Essex County. She went on to the Attorney General's office and did an outstanding job there. As a legislator, I knew her. I knew her now. There was a personal relationship that, I guess, resulted, in me not doing a background on somebody that I thought I really knew. Should I have done that background? Yes, I should have. Did I make a mistake? Yes. I've admitted that. I know that. You try to learn from that, and even though there is a personal relationship, she had been -- but I didn't know about these things. I should have done a background, so that is somebody I knew for a long time and it pains me what she's still going through. Obviously, her family situation that I didn't know about. ... It was corrected, I think, on that day, within 24 hours -- I corrected my mistake.
I've got 16 years in elected office and everything about me is an open book. Every single thing is an open book, which, I mean, can be measured, can be evaluated, can be criticized. I'm the only one. You won't find many mistakes.
Q: At the outset of this campaign, a lot of people might have assumed that you would be presented as the frontrunner. At this point, if you believe the polls, it's a tight race. And do you -- what do you think accounts for that? ...
REILLY: I'm exactly where I've been in every campaign that I've had in a Democratic primary. I've always been the underdog. I've never -- maybe you took it seriously early on, you personally -- or maybe other people said, oh my God, he's the -- but I knew I was never going to be the frontrunner. I've always been the underdog. When I ran for District Attorney and when I ran for Attorney General, and what has always happened is that as the closer people got to the election, they began to focus on, wait a minute, this is a real job. Who has the experience? Who can do it? So, I've -- I was even behind Lois Pines on election night. I was eight points behind according to the exit polls. So I -- I don't know any other position other than the position I'm in right now. There are plenty of people saying, you know, he's behind, he's the underdog. And I was that way against Joe Mackey -- he was a very talented state legislator. Very talented. And a very competitive race. And I managed to win. The same thing with Lois Pines. The same thing here. So, I never took those things seriously at all. I never did. And I don't now. This is a wide-open race. Any one of us could win. Any one of us could win it.
``KILLER COKE"
Q: This is kind of a related question. I'm sure you're relieved that Joan Vennochi is not part of the editorial board... But I do have a question about the ``killer Coke" situation. So, as I understand it, you've said now to the news folks that you were aware of the, you know, backing of your name of the people on your campaign stuff about sort of discussing how to help the campaign -- the ``killer Coke" campaign -- with recommendations of people to help and stuff -- but have you done anything to either reprimand or speak to these folks about what they did and that it was not acceptable to your campaign. You said you were going to run a clean campaign, a high-margin campaign -- what have you done about this?
REILLY: Well, first of all, the first time I became aware of it was after Joan Vennochi called the office and I was told, so I was not aware of it. From the best I can tell, and I wasn't part of those conversations, is that these were discussions that were held and these were, as also best I can tell, the questions being raised by -- his name is Ray Rogers. I've never spoken to him -- they're legitimate questions about Deval Patrick's record at
Q: My question is not about whether the questions about Deval's records are legitimate or not, but --
REILLY: No. But the campaign should be more out in the open.
Q: -- you know, whether your campaign was acting appropriately in supporting the actions or discussing taking action to support a campaign from the outside that was --
REILLY: As I understand it, these were discussions, and I would have been more forthright about these discussions. I don't see anything wrong about raising those questions and allowing Mr. Rogers to answer -- to ask those questions. Those are legitimate questions.
Q: No. A third time, maybe I'm not being clear --
REILLY: Ok.
Q: What I'm asking about were the conversations by members of your campaign staff discussing recommendations they were going to make -- you've seen the e-mails --
REILLY: Actually, I've never seen them.
Q: Well, they're in -- they're heavily excerpted in Joan's column.
REILLY: Yeah.
Q: Recommendations that they were kicking around to try and decide who they would get that Rogers hired or perhaps knows -- well, at least, to recommend people who would help Rogers with his PR campaign. There's a long sort of analysis of what would be a good way to get the best possible press when he came to town. Was that an acceptable thing for your campaign to be doing?
REILLY: I think the campaign should have been more forthright about what it was doing.
Q: Your campaign?
REILLY: Yes.
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Q: But so have you done anything to talk to your staffers about this will not --
REILLY: Spinning trust.
Q: Spinning trust.
REILLY: Spinning trust. Spinning trust. And being just more forthright about it. But you know what, at the end of the day --
Q: Yeah?
REILLY: -- at the end of the day, these are legitimate questions ... that should be answered.
Q: What in your mind are the key questions?
REILLY: The key questions? I don't think anyone of us in this room knows Deval Patrick's role and circumstances at Coca Cola. None of us. I certainly don't...
I understand that there are confidentiality agreements, but no one knows what happened there. And no one I guess will know. No one knows what happened at Coke. It took me a year-and-a-half on AmeriQuest, a year of pressing before we found out the amount of money that was being paid. We never found out about United so that's a -- you talk about advantages and disadvantages. If you're from the private sector, no one knows except what someone is willing to tell you and -- so you don't know what you're getting in the end. But that applies to Chris Gabrieli, as well. I mean, we don't know much about him, although you do know a little bit more about him because he's been -- he's run for office before. But other than that, you don't know. And then, you know, you've got four candidates, five people in this race, and only one will release their income tax returns. How did we get to this point? Even Republicans never had that much moxie before. It was Romney who would do that. How did we ever get to this point where that's acceptable now? There's a long tradition in this state of doing that? A long, long history of it.
IMMIGRATION
Q: Soft drinks will not concern the next gubernatorial administration, but a couple of things will. [One is] documented immigrants. There are a whole bunch of them in the state who do a lot of good work, but a lot of them don't have -- they shouldn't be here -- so what should the next fellow do to address that issue? And two particular points on this -- giving undocumented kids in-state tuition, giving them driver's licenses, and why didn't you enforce the laws on wage and hour more vigorously in the last three quarters?
REILLY: Well, I did, in terms of wage and fraud enforcement. ... The children of illegal immigrants came to this country, were brought here by their parents. They had no role in any of this. They have attended Massachusetts high schools. They have apparently done something pretty good because they've graduated from Massachusetts high schools and they want to go to college. And they want what I wanted. They want to pay their way through college. And I have consistently supported and will support a way -- as long as they are working and paying taxes, they should be allowed to go to college. And in our -- in the process of becoming citizens of this country.
And I feel the same way about the 12 million ... whatever that number is in this country -- I'm in favor of the bipartisan approach by Senator McCain and Senator Kennedy which would grant guest-worker status and (inaudible) and wouldn't hurt anyone else, as long as they are, again, working and paying taxes and obeying laws of this -- they get in line with everyone else that is applying for citizenship. I think that's a fair and balanced way, along with securing our borders. We do have to do something. And in terms of wage and law enforcement, we have enforced the laws in wage and law enforcement. And the approach was to target those employers who were not paying the prevailing wage and denying people benefits.
Q: This is prevailing wage at the state? Not just private workers?
REILLY: No. The prevailing wage applies to state workers --
Q: State contractors. Not necessarily private contractors. What about the immigrants? They're all over the place now. And many of them are illegal, but many of them are not, and according to the stories we had recently, are being exploited without being illegal.
REILLY: That's why we went after people who were exploiting those workers.
Q: But is there a role for the governor here that is perhaps more expansive than the case at hand?
REILLY: There is a role for the governor who is going to be fair to people, particularly children, who have done nothing wrong themselves other than to be brought here by their parents. To be fair and give them an opportunity and an education. I believe that there is a role for a governor, and governors throughout this country, to call for a national solution to this problem. And it's got to be balanced and fair and recognize that they're here.... [On drivers licenses:] we have to identify who these people are, where they are -- and make sure that they are working and paying their taxes. There would have to be a national documenting system set up to document who they are. We cannot be giving out driver's licenses to people, which is a universal form of identification, without that system being in place. You just can't do it.
Q: You support the in-state tuition, but not --
REILLY: Yes I do. Yes I do. I've met with these kids and it's -- two kids from Brazil and one of them -- this story has been told -- came here four years ago, couldn't speak a word in English, and is now at the top levels, the very top levels of testing in terms of math and science. And he's working at Friendly's, OK. He's trying...
Q:How can he work at Friendly's?
REILLY: Huh?
Q:How can he work at Friendly's with no documentation?
REILLY: They're getting tax-identification numbers as we speak.
Q :I mean, he should not be able to. Should he? Should he work at Friendly's?
REILLY: That's debatable. They're working. They're getting tax identification numbers. They're working.
***
And I mean, you take a step back and it's OK, you've got a problem. There are 12 million people who maybe shouldn't be here but they're here. They've been a part of the economy, so what do you do? How do you solve that problem? And I don't think you can do Draconian things. I think you take a step back and come up with a plan to deal with it, and I think the bipartisan approach is the way to do it.
HEALTH CARE
Q: You mentioned earlier the importance of preventative health care. You mentioned diabetes, asthma -- particularly are a problem in the urban centers. So I'm interested in why you haven't pursued the lawsuit that a number of people have been asking you to pursue regarding lead paint manufacturers. In Rhode Island had some, I know, trouble preliminarily, but had some success. Do you think it's just a bad case to bring?
REILLY: I don't know. I don't know right now. We, along with just every state attorney general, assessed that case in its very earliest stages and no one filed that.
And obviously that had at least in the preliminary stages success but there are a number of ways of approaching this and ultimately that may be a way that we go, that we follow this through the appeals process in Rhode Island. But we focused on prevention. A landmark case in terms of the notifications on lead paint by the manufacturers, for people buying paint, the dangers of it -- we've had a number of, and continue to have a number of enforcement actions, educational issues. So is that an option? Yeah, it is an option, but I think every -- just about everyone else in the country is kind of waiting to see what happens here, as to whether or not you can be successful at this. So, no, we haven't written it off. We haven't written it off at all.
***
PUBLIC SENTIMENT
Q:You mentioned long ago that it's been 16 years under management by a Republican governor, and yet the populace has spoken for all that period of time. And whether they wanted a check and balance on the Democratic legislature, or they wanted fiscal responsibility, or they're concerned about special interests or all of the above -- there sentiment on this is pretty clear -- how do you, Tom Reilly, beat that?
REILLY: I think the most important thing that you have to demonstrate is independence. You will be an independent voice for the people of Massachusetts. That you will stand up to the legislature when they are wrong, and that you will work with them when they are right, and that you have the strength to be able to do that. And I've demonstrated that time after time after time. I was booed at my own convention a couple of years ago because of Bulger.
Q: Yeah.
REILLY: And was that harmful? It's still harmful in a Democratic party. I understand that. But he had to go. MCAS. Graduation requirement -- I did what I thought was right for the students of Massachusetts. The tax-rollback -- again, people disagree with me on that in my party. The legislature disagrees with me, but those are areas where -- Melanie's Bill -- there are countless times where I always tried to do what I thought was right and what was best for Massachusetts without regard to a party. And I think that that's what people are -- I know that's what they're looking for -- and I -- in terms of standing up to the special interest groups, some of the things we've talked about here, from charter schools to changing teacher pay -- I understand those are not popular tax rollbacks in a Democratic primary, but should a governor have the strength.
***
And I'm going to be the only one in this primary who has demonstrated that independence. And it's cost me sometime. No question about it. I mean, getting booed at your own convention does not bode well. You know? Was it right? Yeah. He had to go. [I had?] to go after his pension. And nobody else in this primary is going to be able to say that -- no one else.
Q :And you think the value of yourself -- how do you communicate that and convince the electorate of that?
REILLY: You know, I've been able to do it in terms of communicating with people, you know, as we're going -- as we've been going around the camp -- you know, the state. We've had this "My Street. On Your Side." And it's going very well, as people -- it's the only one that's different, in either party really -- it's different than any one of them. And it is connecting with people. And it's fun. And hopefully over the next -- as people begin to focus, we've got two debates left, and people will realize that, you know, he's different -- he's the only one that's different. He's the only one that's independent enough, and the only one that's going to be on our side, and that has been our side. He'll stand up for us. That's really where this is going, and I hope over the course of debates that people -- it's always happened for me. ...
As Attorney General, again, at this stage, everybody is saying writing me off. I'm just saying, ... at the end of the day, they focused on it and say, wait a minute. You've got to -- on the day of the elections -- at the end of these elections, you've got to be able to do this job -- and that's where these Republican governors have failed...
At the end of the day, you need a governor who can really govern. That's what it's going to come down to. That's what I think as it approaches. They'll look at it that way and say -- who can govern here? Who has the experience? Who has the independence? Who has the strength to be able to do it?
TAXES
Q: People are howling about what you talked about -- the increases in residential property taxes. With potential rollbacks ... taxes could go higher. It's a pretty compelling argument that they make to basically toe the line.
REILLY: Well, local aid has gone up significantly this year, as the projections are. There's no reason to suspect that they're wrong. There's going to be additional revenues for next year, and as you grow this economy, there will be additional revenues, and I believe those additional revenues need to go to increase local aid and relief of property tax increases. Yes, I do. I believe I can do that....
I think you need some flexibility as you, you know, without locking yourself into a percentage, but it's not going to -- I don't believe you can just throw money at a problem. I'm going to be demanding accountability, and have a plan about how you're going to spend that money. what are the schools that are most efficient on how they spend money and the results they get. I'm going to do success squared, and we're going to do that and get best practices and say how come you can run the school on X amount of money and get this kind of results and you can't. There are two schools in Springfield that I'm intrigued by, that I'm going to look at, one of them across the street from where I grew up, the Balliet School. And the other one, I've forgot -- I'll think of it -- but Balliet School is -- pretty much that neighborhood is the same way as its been for all of these years. Low- to middle-income kids. High level of -- it's below poverty level. One school does well and the other school doesn't do well. The same population. What's going on here? What's going on in terms of spending your money and how you spend your money? So, we'll do that across the board. I can tell you this -- at community colleges, you know, the graduation rate is not cutting it. It's not cutting it. Some are. Middlesex does a very good job...
Q: What do you do right away? You've got a lot of position papers there, but you can't do everything in the first couple of months as governor, so what do you do right off? What are your priorities?
REILLY: I think the focus initially has to be just running on a platform and on the promise that we're going to rollback the --
Q: That's what you'll do right away? You'll file your budget?
REILLY: You have to do that, but before you get -- you have to be open, you have to be ready to hit the ground running, and that requires over the course -- we have -- I realize I've got two elections to win before that -- but we are building a group of people that are excited about this and coming into government and coming back into government, and we will begin November 8 in terms of putting that administration together and attracting talent and the focus will be on those things that, as I said, are important -- the education, implementing that plan. It's changing the way that business -- that the government does business with business. All of those things will happen between November and January. I'm not going to wait for that. So, you're going to hit the ground running, and you're going to show progress right off the bat. They're waiting for this. I know that this is what everybody is waiting for.
I'm going to start working on those relationships and building those relationships. And when. . . those relationships are there, then implementing those plans. We'll start with education. We'll start with better, much better relationship[s]. . . it is how do you do business with the business community? People see things happen and they're happening quickly. They're making decisions and getting things moving. I've always been able to do that, and I'm confident that I can do it here. I've always been able to get things done, in good times and the bad times.
***
REILLY: So, there are two debates. I know they'll be important, and it's like -- you're running for District Attorney and people probably focus on it for 30 seconds, maybe, because the style -- but they do focus on it. They think, hey, it's a real job. For the Attorney General, maybe they give you a minute. This job, they'll give you five minutes. They'll give you five minutes over a period of time and they'll say who can govern? Who's ready to govern? And that will be it. And then they'll vote.
© Copyright 2006 Globe Newspaper Company.
