Manchester, N.H.
JOE BIDEN had the least time but the best line at last week's Democratic debate - and his barb seems to have stung Rudy Giuliani's campaign. Questioning the Republican front-runner's qualifications to be president, Biden quipped that "there's only three things he mentions in a sentence: A noun and a verb and 9/11."
Giuliani's team quickly fired back, saying the Democratic senator, known for a certain loquacity, "has never run anything but his mouth."
More sardonic sorties ensued. So in the interest of illuminating some substantive differences, today we present a virtual debate between the two. Biden's comments came in a telephone interview. Giuliani's are drawn from a Monday town hall meeting at Saint Anselm College, plus answers to questions I posed afterward.
Our first topic: Iran's nuclear ambitions.
Saying that there was a worrisome level of irrationality in Iran's leadership, the former New York City mayor said he would press hard on the diplomatic front first, but stressed: "It would be very dangerous if Iran became nuclear, and we would have to make it clear that we would not allow them to do that and that, if necessary, we would use military force to stop them." Adding that some countries would rather trade with Iran than support sanctions against it, he continued: "I think the calculus changes completely if they begin assessing the fact that we are really serious about it and that we mean it. . . I also think Iran needs to hear it."
Biden: "He talks about it like Iran . . . is on the verge of getting [nuclear weapons] that are deployable and usable, when that is simply not the case. . . If they are able to set up 30,000 gas centrifuges and connect them all and keep them running without interruption for one year, that would produce enough highly enriched uranium - 2.6 kilograms - to build one bomb. That doesn't even get them near the capacity to . . . put it in a warhead . . . put it on top of a missile, and make it a deliverable system. . . They are probably somewhere between four and 10 years away from even being able to build a nuclear weapon, let alone making it usable. . . To me that demonstrates that he either doesn't have a grasp of the facts or that he is just engaging in fear-mongering."
Our second issue: waterboarding, the controversial interrogation technique that simulates drowning. Giuliani said recently that he was unsure if the practice was torture.
Biden, who does consider it torture, takes issue: "That is a real good thing for a potential president to say, number one in terms of how it [makes us look] to the rest of the world, number two in terms of how much jeopardy that it puts our guys in" by opening the door for enemies to use torture.
Giuliani, however, stuck by his formulation.
"I don't have classified material that describes to me precisely what . . . the United States does, what it has done," he said. He added: "Should America not torture? Of course we shouldn't. However, under extreme circumstances . . . do you have to leave open all kinds of possibilities short of torture?. . . Yes. And exactly whether or not that [waterboarding] crosses over the line, I think you should make that judgment when you have looked at precisely what it is . . . American operatives did or plan to do."
Our final topic: The state of nuclear proliferation. North Korea, which tested a nuclear device last year, is thought to have enough nuclear material to make at least a half-dozen bombs. Still, according to a March
"What the hell is he talking about?" Biden said. "All you have to do is just read the general press to know that" North Korea is far ahead, Biden said. "How could he not know that?"
Asked about Biden's comment as he prepared to leave Saint Anselm, Giuliani seemed ready to brush the query off - before turning back to take the debate bait.
"I like Joe," he said. "But he does fit into the category of, never ran a city, never ran a state, never ran a government or a business, and it's all talk."
That Parthian shot shows the pugnacious side of Giuliani - just as Biden's caustic critique reveals a certain impatient disdain.
Scot Lehigh's e-mail address is lehigh@globe.com.
