Letters

Judging from the flood of letters we got, most readers - and many of them who deal with other people's children - were nodding and shouting "hallelujah" after reading Neil Swidey's article on overnegotiating with kids.

Who's the Boss?

In my kindergarten class, I work every day with children like the ones Neil Swidey describes in

"All Talked Out" (November 7). Kids who have to negotiate every point and cannot accept boundaries miss out on so much, because they are unable to move on. Where I teach, value is placed on regularity and predictability. We refer to it as rhythm. If our days are regular enough, the transitions for the children are easy.
There are many factors that affect children, their behavior, and their relationships with others. These can include sleep, nutrition, warmth, immunization, and exposure to various media. One thing Swidey mentions in passing is that parents are living stressed and overscheduled lives. If parents can pare down (and slow down) their own lives somewhat and create some regularity and predictability, the children and the whole family can benefit greatly. And don't forget to turn off the television.
ELIZABETH STUBBS, Lexington

It's great to get some validation for enforcing limits the way my husband and I do with our nearly 4-year-old child. Defining the three types of parents was helpful, because after reading the article, I feel about 20 percent authoritarian and 80 percent authoritative. I will be working at reaching the 100th percentile for authoritative.
CAROLYN TAYLOR, Granby, Connecticut

As a school nurse and the parent of two college kids, I couldn't agree with the article more. To those who work with other people's children, it is painfully obvious which parents subscribe to the kind but firm authoritative mode of parenting and which subscribe to the "school of debate." How enervating it is trying to deal with children who simply can't take no for an answer, and how confused and angry these children appear when they deal with helping adults in their lives who simply won't debate with them to have things go their way. School personnel spend enormous amounts of time trying to help parents learn the type of parenting skills highlighted in the article. Having this as your cover story surely had educators everywhere blessing you.
ANITA ZETLAN REDNER, Chestnut Hill

Unfortunately, nowhere in his article does Neil Swidey actually define what he means by "negotiating." What he depicts are parents who are rather lamely trying to reason with their children just prior to capitulating to the children's wishes. Adults pursue their expectations with children in three ways: imposition of adult will; working toward mutually satisfactory solutions that take the concerns of both child and adult into account; and dropping the expectation completely. We call the second option "collaborative problem solving." This option comes closest to the negotiating concept with which Swidey seems to be struggling. When parents and children solve problems collaboratively, adults are authority figures, adults are in charge, adults are setting limits, and children learn how to express their concerns, take others' needs and concerns into account, consider alternative solutions, and anticipate the likely outcomes of solutions.
ROSS W. GREENE AND J. STUART ABLON, Collaborative Problem Solving Institute, Department of Psychiatry, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston

For every example of a parent who spends too much time listening and talking to her child, there are hundreds of examples of children being restricted unnecessarily, yelled at, threatened, or bullied by their parents, children whose protests are routinely ignored and whose questions are dismissed out of hand, children who have become accustomed to hearing an automatic "No!" in response to their requests and a "Because I said so!" if they ask for a reason. Neil Swidey's skewed description of what is actually taking place in malls and playgrounds around the country has the effect of supporting a dubious prescription that is, a call for even more control and punishment, even less trust and responsiveness.
ALFIE KOHN, Belmont

I am a senior at Brandeis University, and I have been baby-sitting for almost 10 years. I have sat for many different children and in many different family situations, and the most well-adjusted, pleasant kids are those whose parents have mixed firm boundaries and regular routines with love and affection. Overparenting truly is creating a generation of children who can't deal with the ups and downs of real life I see it when I baby-sit, and I see it in my college classmates.
SOPHIA INNERFIELD, Waltham

It appears to me, as a mother, grandmother, and participant in this crazy experience we call life, that the inmates are running the asylum. How scary is that?
BIBIANA C. NOWACKI, Franklin

Boston.com online-exclusive letters to the editor in response to the article, "All Talked Out," by Neil Swidey, that appeared in the Nov. 7 issue of The Boston Globe Magazine.

All of us witness scenes of parents "reasoning" with their young kids everyday -- at the mall, coffee shop, or the town library. It happens so often it gets tiresome. What the parents don't realize is that when they keep explaining, they've lost. These young parents with their child-rearing books are so busy trying to prove how civilized they are by negotiating with their kids that they end producing unruly, whiny, self-centered kids. The children may be well dressed and sitting in the perfect stroller, but no one wants to be around them. Stop treating your 4-year old like a mini-adult, be a parent, and socialize your kids more responsibly because we all have to deal with them later.
Cynthia Iris, Wellesley

Thank you for the thought-provoking article. As a middle school teacher I have often wondered if well-intentioned parents realize the longer-term consequences of their childrearing strategies. In a classroom with student/teacher ratios of 20-30/1, it takes skill, patience and firm limit setting to guide students through the everyday tasks of learning and test taking. Many students expect their questions to be met with 20 minutes of negotiation. "Why to we have to be quiet during this test?" or "Do we have to read this?" can easily derail a class if the teacher is not alert to the pitfalls. Bravo to our teachers who succeed in teaching material while showing respect for their students who demand increasing amounts of time and attention in our 21st century classrooms.
Aleza Beauvais, Athol

As the mom of two daughters, 4 months and 20 months old, I suspect that many parents unintentionally over-verbalize to their 3 and 4 year olds simply because they are used to talking that way. Parents are encouraged to prattle on and on to their infants and toddlers, narrating the minutiae of the day using real words, not baby talk. So, by the time these kids have acquired the language skills to hold a conversation or engage in an argument, parents probably just aren't used to changing their style to avoid the endless negotiations that Neil Swidey's subjects describe. It doesn't seem fair that our kids go from precocious to tiresome as a consequence of our teaching, and I'm not sure about a solution. At least, judging from the article, I'm in good company as my almost-2 year old and I begin down this confusing path.
Elizabeth Schlosberg, Brookline

Your article "All Talked Out" is excellent. I am a child psychiatrist and, in fact, I discussed it today with a family that has a very demanding child.
Steve Auster M.D., Holliston

As a former educator, parent of two teenagers, and current middle school PTO president, I am in total agreement with Swidey's article. I found it most interesting though that the research on parenting styles and how they affect children has not changed since I was in graduate school 22 years ago. I wonder why parenting styles for today's young parents have gotten so off track. I agree that we have more parents who have lost control and more children who are in control.

Thank you for your insight.
Rosemary Chansky, Wakefield

I am a mother also trying hard to find the right ways to execute a healthy "authoritative" parenting style with my precocious 4-year-old (and up-and-coming 2-year-old). I have several friends also in the same boat, with whom I will be sharing your comprehensive, informative, and enjoyable article. You have served us all well with your important reminders and insight into modern day parenting.
Sidney Goehring, Beavercreek, OH

My son lives in Jerusalem (yes, in Israel!) in a condo overlooking a wonderful children's park. Every day his and his neighbor's darlings play and cavort there. Ending their playtime for meals, home, etc. can be a most dramatic experience. His 3 year old, Sara Roza, one afternoon took violent opposition to returning home -- kicking, yelling, digging in her heels, and plopping herself down in one grand tantrum.

Later, after everyone was home and had recovered, Sara Roza and her two sisters were gazing out their window and saw a little neighbor of theirs being dragged home from the park, kicking and screaming.

The girls watched, most interested, and their parents heard Sara Roza remark, "Hmm, I sat down," measuring her own demonstration against the neighbor's: hers, no doubt, a superior performance!

Oh, did we laugh over that one!
Marion Perry, Sharon

Congratulations on a thoughtful, well written article. Bravo! I loved every word of it, and am planning on sending it to several friends. Some of them could use the advice!
Elizabeth Norton, Medfield

Researcher Diana Baumrind is right: Parents are the experts when it comes to their own kids. Parenting books and workshops, advice from friends, and even the best personal upbringing don't always provide the answers a parent needs when faced with a toddler having a tantrum, a rebellious adolescent, or an out-of-control teen.

At the Parental Stress Line (1-800-632-8188), callers aren't looking for the right answer - they need the right listener - someone who is supportive, empathetic, and nonjudgmental. The hotline is anonymous, confidential, toll-free, and available 24-hours a day. Parents do their best to support their kids. The Parental Stress Line is there to supports parents.

Katie Britton

Parental Stress Line Outreach Coordinator

The Home for Little Wanderers

Boston