Bill Maher takes on religion, again

Good for him! He has an opinion and expresses it. Just like for thousands of years, organized religion has had an opinion...and forced other people to accept it. Should you require more proof I give you the Crusades. At least Maher isn't forcing anybody to believe him. Hepass throws his ideas out there and if you want to listen, you do; if you don't want to listen, you don't.

Is Maher rooting jsut for the downfall of religions, such as the Catholic Religion or does he believe that following Jesus Christ is wrong also?

What is religion, if not a societal control system. As with all such systems there are acceptable losses and unacceptable ones.

Acceptable losses - Individual interpretations and free thinking.

Unacceptable losses - Monetary assets and reduction in the size of its constituencies or power.

Religions operate like governing bodies(or corporations) always guarding against the appearance of inpropriety while lining their pockets with the alms of the innocent(those affected adversely by the message).

If you cannot criticize religion (religion - a thing god hates by the way, according to writings)
then there is not freedom of or from religion at all.

This is what happens when you challenge faith believers they use exclusion. Do not want criticism even from an informed source.

Bill I dont think 200 million Catholics are wrong. A fool in his heart says there is no God (taken from the Bible) It covers everything.

Cool! Can't wait to see it. I agree with him 100%.

Catholic_Maher_supporter,

You're not a Catholic. You're a phony and a fraud. You can't be a Catholic and say "Good for him" when he makes a film that mocks not only the Catholic Church, but Christianity and all other organized religions.

Calling yourself Catholic on a message board doesn't make you a Catholic. Sorry.

But you are certainly correct that has the right to express his opinion. At least he's more honest than you are.

Pat,

Bill Maher thinks that if you believe in anything "supernatural" or rely on "faith", that you're an idiot. Which makes him smarter than about 90+% of Americans in his own mind.

thomasbond,
The number of believers is a pretty weak basis for your beliefs. Maybe you'll want to switch to Islam with 1.5 billion followers. They must be REALLY right!

And if you wish to quote the bible as a guide, be ready to defend ALL of the nonsense as well. Just remind yourself it was written 1000 years before it was discovereed the Earth was not flat.

Religion is a nice tool for controlling people, but they are mostly just silly... especially the desert religions. I figure with pro sports to dumb the masses, religion is on it's way out here in the US.
I wouldn't want to be the guy who had to defend the bible in a fair debate. I'm not sure how great a movie that will make though... maybe I'll watch it late night.
It will be interesting to see the first president come out and say he doesn't believe in any religion. I don't think Barack does, but he's too smart to say so. Mc Cain probably doesn't either.

You don't have to be religious to believe in the wisdom of the teachigns of Jesus, whether you call him Jesus Christ or Jesus of Nazareth as Thomas Jefferson and many other founding fathers did, his message of peace, love and forgiveness is a good one, whether he's divine or not.
When that message is skewed and turned into a method of persecution and power manipulation is when a problem arises, which is exactly what organized religions do.

I agree that a lot of organized religious stuff is just lousy, but my faith is not in religion, but in a personal-infinite God who is seen in Jesus Christ.

I do wonder, tho, why Bill Maher spends so much energy focused on something he doesn't believe in. Just maybe God is tugging at his heart, trying to catch his attention, and Maher is into denial big time. Been there, done that. It's an honorable response dating at least to the days of St. Paul trying to wipe out Christian faith before his Damascus Road conversion.

As far as the downside of religion, it comes because people are involved, and you know how they can mess things up (except you and me, of course).

Blessing to all who are somewhere on the journey of faith.

I have not seen the film, but what I have seen of the promotional material suggests Maher merely allows religion to defend itself which, of course, it cannot do. Instead what comes back is a dull thud: more hokum to defend systems of thought that have no bearing to reality. Which is why I take the position that religion is delusion. Now, delusion is just fine, so long as the deluded remain on their side of the double-yellow line. Delusion that bears itself upon society through our public institutions, however, will hear from me and millions more with the warning: "jump back, Jack".

The writer, clearly an apologist, calls Maher's work a "mocking attack". So be it. It's high time.

Freedom of religion ought to be maintained. You and I can believe in any nonsense we choose. It's a human right.

So is freedom from religion. This also ought to be enshrined. If Maher helps this cause, all the better.

Dear Mr/Ms Holden,

Unfortunately, if Jesus were to be alive today, George W. Bush and the other "born-again" "compassionate" "conservative" "Christians" would be waterboarding him in Guantanamo.

As you probably know, in Matthew 25:41-46, Jesus condemned the thugs who have taken over the Republican Party to eternal punishment.

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

What is so insulting is the lumping together being done by atheists. Many, including Mr. Maher, make the conclusion that because someone has a belief system (which is a very basic definition of religion), you must be ignorant, stupid, a hick, or all the above. (For the record, the big bang was postulated by a Catholic Priest). For many if not most religions, the important part of it is not some absolute belief in an all powerful being that will do this and that for you. It is a way to behave towards others. Is this controlling? Yes, in the sense of you merely doing acts to attain favour with you deity or attain a piece of the afterlife. But for many, church is simply a place to reflect on your actions and to see what you can change in your life to be a better person.

What stuns me is how many of the posts here hate the fact that I want to be a better person and that I find reflecting upon it with others who too believe the need to be better towards others helpful. Why the hostility? Do you know how many people are helped each and every day through faith-based organizations? If you end all religions (thereby violating the constitutional right to assembly) who will pick up the slack? I highly doubt it will be Mr. Maher. Considering his support of PETA, he is not very bright. Giving money to a group that exterminates over 90% of the animals in their care and who give financial assistance to domestic terrorist organizations does not really show a well thought out plan. Alas, this is not about Maher¡¦s stupidity or PETA¡¦s criminal activities; this is about the fact that so many out there are so intolerant to others.

The lack of intelligent arguments against the basis of religions is what frustrates the most. OK. You can pick out instances where religion was wrong, did bad, etc. By the same token, I can pick atheists who are bigots, homophobes, and monsters. Stalin anyone?

To paint with such a broad brush is ignorant. Do I agree with all religions? Do I agree with my religion? What do you mean by agree ƒº? Do I approve of the life lessons of treating others good and the whole stewardship of the earth concept? Yes. What about not judging others? Yes. I am amazed how many people are so bigoted against what I do for an hour on Sunday? To me, having a belief system is not stupid¡Kit is the unwavering criticism of such a system that shows ignorance, immaturity, or simply a narrow mind.

I hope that the rest of the poster here stop with the ¡¥religion is stupid¡¦ and ¡¥it is a tool for controlling the masses¡¦ because (1) those are horribly unoriginal statements and (2) rather false.

I have a belief system. I meditate on that belief system every Sunday. It gives me a chance to focus, create balance in my life and to figure out ways I could be better, either towards my family, my neighbors, the less fortunate or to the earth. Hate me if you will. I am used to being cast out. Science geeks did not attract the most positive attention in high school but it does not bother me. Will I pray for you? No. You don¡¦t understand prayer. It is a moment of reflection and meditation. Would I help you if you were hurt? Probably (sigh). Just quit painting everyone with the huge brush.

People always say how closed minded religions and religious people are but most of the posts show that atheists (since we are all painting with a big brush here) have a lot to open up to as well.

george and the rest of the closed-minded individuals here,

Please answer two questions. 1, when did time begin? 2. where does space end? Until you can answer those two questions, then "the guy defending the bible in a fair debate" will win.

Maher speaks out from a rationalist position and denounces anyone who disagrees with him, which actually shows that he is guilty of the very thing he accuses religions of. So much for open-minded. This is also called denial, arrogance, pride and in the end, claiming yourself to be God, i.e., believe as I want you to believe to be in the right. Bill's guilty as charged.

Come to think of it, that's actually written about in the Bible. In the book of Romans, the apostle Paul states that those who pass judgement on others are guilty of the same thing they judge others for. In psychology, this is articulated when you do not like someone, and typically the reason you do not like them is that they typify something about yourself that you do not like.

Problem is Bill is really a bright guy, and in some instances, pretty funny. And some of what he says is true. A lot of evil has been perpetrated in the name of religion, but his is an overreaction, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

And yes I'm a Christian, and I do use the brain that God gave, quite well in fact. It doesn't matter a hill of beans, but for those for whom it's important, I have an MBA with nearly a 4.0 average. I'm not smarter than others, I just realize that there are many things I will never understand.

And Bill, to put it in perspective, how smart can you be since you don't fear (have a healthy reverence for) God?

Just the same, He loves Bill, whether or not Bill believes it or not. Funny thing about truth, it's true whether you believe it or not.

So a hack like Bill Maher makes fun of Catholicism. So what! Let him run his mouth and insult whoever he pleases. If you give this windbag attention, he benefits. If you smile and continue on with your life then maybe a hack like him will see his 15 minutes of fame finally expire and he'll end up on some remote cable channel.

Again the best way to handle Maher and the other jerks out there is to let them bleat their mindless drivel and show how foolish they actually are. by trying to engage them in an intelligent discussion ( good luck in that) you are actually validating their ignorance. Whatever religion you practice is fine, you owe no one an apology for that.

Everyone has a right to bash religion. I personally think that Maher's categorical assault doesn't do any justice to all the positive things that the institution of religion does provide. Catholic Social Services for example is the LARGEST social service agency after government agencies. Talk about offering a safety net. My primary point is that his vitriol is rather one dimensional and simplistic, ultimately coming across as angry and hateful, an undertone Maher has always conveyed.

The other point I wanted to put out for the discussion is that if the focal point of his movie's anti-religious theme was not Catholicism or Christianity with all its incarnations, but Judaism, everyone would be up in arms. But, if you follow his line of thinking, Judaism is as stupid, pointless, and irrational as anything after Christ, and therefore, the cause should be taken up to remove it from the face of the earth as well. I think someone else took that line of thinking once before.

One could posit that Jewish seder rituals are equally ridiculous, especially when they seemingly get watered down and adapted for do-only-the-fun-things, "Jew Lite" suburban life in the kibbutzes of metro-west.

Again, my point is that I would hope as a humanistic rationalist, that he would be interested in elevating the human experience instead of dogging it with more hatred, something the world just doesn't need. And that's the thing, he's not just criticizing the premise of religions, he's on a mission to make them go away.

I don't know about you, but it seems like someone Catholic really p!ssed him off when he was a kid. He has quite a hair across his behind replete with Latin inscriptions and rubrics about what to eat during Lent. Hahahah!

I'm a Christian, and I have seen Bill Maher's show, and written a 10 page paper for my political comm class about his show. That being said, his opinions are extremely strong, and many people, don't agree with him. However, Christianity is a force of strong opinion as well, it is a force that gets on a lot of peoples nerves as well as is appreciated by a lot of people. He who is without sin may cast the first stone.

You can be a Christian but there is no need to to condemn and judge people, leave that to God. You can't have a real opinion unless you choose to see both sides of the situation, therefore listening to what Maher has to say, will only make you more sure of your faith, and if you hear both sides of the story then yoave a more educated opinion. It is extremely ignorant to form an opinion when you only know one side of the story. Christians are supposed to spread love not hate, so people who are so anti this movie really should study Jesus Christ and what he preached.

Kevin and Having Some Sense:
GREAT Comments. Very insightful and practical.

"Bill I dont think 200 million Catholics are wrong"

This is just mob mentality.

1. The majority of the world speaks English. This means that not speaking English is "wrong".

2. 500 years ago the majority of the West thought slavery was right. Therefore, slavery is right

3. In the majority of countries in the world, women don't have equal rights as men. Therefore, it's wrong for women to have equal rights as men.

Three men do not make a tiger, to quote a Chinese parable. With that said, I agree with Mr. Maher. We should start taking more critical looks at religion, and not let people get away with saying "Oh I have faith" as though an appeal to their imagination somehow gets them off the hook of critical inquiry. Face it, if you allow that standard (faith) to be your trump card, then you're also going to have to allow positions which are obviously false (ie I have faith that Zorg, the Holy Invisible Panda Bear, is the One True God) - to be just as true as you. If “faith” is justified, then September 11th was justified.

"Please answer two questions. 1, when did time begin? 2. where does space end? Until you can answer those two questions, then 'the guy defending the bible in a fair debate' will win."

This is easy. #1: I don't know. #2 I don't know.

See, I admit the limitations of my knowledge instead of making up indefensible answers to things I don't understand. Bible defenders are about as right as those who believed in Zeus, Thor or the sun god.

if you make a movie called "Niggardly" about the continued failures of black america and their violent misogynist ways then people call you a racist. Would Bill Mahr support the filmmaker then as he wishes to be supported?

Bill Mahr is as crazy and indoctrinated as the rest of them. He is a close minded bigot; just that its PC to do it to this particular group right now.

While I recognize the value of the teaching of Jesus as I mentioned earlier, that doesn't make him divine. There are countless mythologies throughout the Bible (and Qu'ran) that are simply remnants of an ignorant age when the human authors had even less of a clue of how the universe functioned than we do now.

AF: Not having the answers to questions doesn't make the answers divine. Lightning was always just an electrical discharge, we just didn't understand it yet. Maybe some people feel the need to have a purpose behind their existence and, what's more, to know that we'll continue to exist in perpetuity. It's a wonderful idea, but there's simply no credible evidence for it. Faith isn't a bad thing, but recognize that in their day, the Greeks and Romans had just as much faith in their gods, as did the Sumerians, Incans, druids and others that most Christians would dismiss as heathens or superstitious fools.
Could billions of people be wrong? Well, we know now that the earth isn't flat, it's not the center of the universe, that stars aren't drawings placed in the sky by gods and the sun isn't the flaming wheel of a chariot.

OY BILL! YOU'RE FUNNY,STILL-A-HOTTIE-SHARP AS A WHIP, BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENNED TO YOU THAT HAS BURNED-OUT PART OF YOUR VERY SPIRIT? WHO DISAPPOINTED YOU LONG AGO SO DEEPLY THAT YOU MADE A PROMISE(TO YOURSELF) NEVER TO PUT YOUR FAITH IN ANYONE OR ANYTHING EVER AGAIN?I LOVE YOU BILL,HAVE BEEN A MAJOR FAN OF YOUR YOUR ENTIRE CAREER-THIS IS BELOW THE BELT DEAR--- YOUR MOVIE WILL PROBABLY SELL TICKETS,BUT AT IT'S CORE-IT IS MEAN SPIRITED-NOT MEANT TO MAKE ANY CONTRIBUTION WHATSOEVER TO ANYONE;MERELY TO MOCK AND BELITTLE SOMETHING THAT HAS AND REMAINS A SENSE OF COMFORT & STRENGTH FOR ALL OF MANKIND-I THINK THAT THIS PREMISE/SUBJECT IS A TAWDRY CHEAP IMITATION FOR ENTERTAINMENT-MY RESPECT FOR YOU DROPPED INTO BORDERLINE SADNESS FOR YOUR CURRENT MINDSET AND LACK OF VALUES SHOWN.I HOPE YOU REALIZE HOW TASTELESS AND OFFENSIVE THIS IS AND HOW MANY FANS YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE- 'JUST SAYING....I'LL PRAY THAT YOU COME TO YOUR SENSES QUICKLY--(IF YOU DON'T MIND,THAT IS) LOVE YA.M

G. K. Chesterton once said that bigotry is not believing that I am right and you are wrong; bigotry is believing that because you disagree with me you are either a knave or a fool.

#5 thomasbond.

You're a coward who hides behind the words of others to insult nonbelievers.

Here's what I say: A fool in his heart says there is a God, and he is mine.

Bill gets it right! I am surprised at how few religo-fascists have posted comments on the board. Anytime you challenge their belief system, they almost inevitably flock to the source and try to drown out the facts.

Of course, you have to be able to read to use the internet, which likely explains the lack of posts supporting their science fiction mythology.

Does anyone who has commented negatively remember what country they live in? If you don't like someone going on the offensive about religon then don't see it! I personally have no problem with this subject and he has every right to go after organized religon, it's not superior no matter what you believe in! I look forward to what he shows because so many just blindly accept their religon's point of view with no question and it's time to hear from his atheistic point of view. I have never understood why people are not willing to even conceive there is another point of view and then make their personal decision.

Christianity has become a force for plentiful evil in America.

Whose fault is that?

Christians, that's who.

Fundamentalism and general Christian extremism has run amok in this country since the early 80s. We are all paying dearly for it ever since: staunch religious intolerance, wide-eyed hatred (read the book by Michael Schiavo on how the fundies stalked him, threatened his life and slandered him relentlessly); a sickening lust for war (read "Grand Theft Jesus"); an idiotic creationism aka intelligent design movement dumbing down the country; megachurches spewing hatred of 'liberals'; the Catholic church aiding and abetting sexual abuse of children by priests globally; a lust for money, political power and material wealth; the brain-dead 'war on Christmas' (hi to that Catholic League bag of gas) and that's all just the tip of the iceberg.

To the Christians reading this who insist they do not subscribe to the rabid ideologies of the fundamentalists and other Christian extremists, where the heck have you been the last 20 years? If you don't stand up for what's right and make your voice heard, rest assured there are gaggles of freshly minted far right, 'Answers in Genesis' believing, money grubbing, power hungry, war mongering, ethically impaired Jesus-bots who hate anyone to the left of "Billo" O'Reilly ready and eager to do all the talking, thinking and acting for you.

cal williams wrote: "if you make a movie called "Niggardly" about the continued failures of black america and their violent misogynist ways then people call you a racist."

Um, yeah, Cal, as a matter of fact, you would. For good reason.

And your point is...?

When Christians write in about their views, and don't throw Bill or others who write here under the bus, they demonstrate respect. Those who disagree with us, however, call us fascists. Again, those people who are supposedly "tolerant" of others' views have an extreme intolerance for the Christian view and resort to name calling. How tolerant - not. Hypocritical, yes. Or should I stick my head in the sand and deny that's what they do?

Dennis, there is a vast Chrisian-fascist movement in this country which is largely tolerated by Christians who do not share those views, in that the most part they keep their mouths shut, either by fear or lack of awareness.

Don't blame non-Christians for calling attention to that. As I said in post #30, either speak up and take God back from these Christian extremists or just be quiet and let the Christo-fascists speak for you. As the saying goes, "Sleep next to dogs, wake up with fleas."

First of all, the word "niggardly" has NOTHING to do with the Negroe race/blacks/African-Americans, etc.. It applies to managing money (look it up).

Secondl, JJ, the point is, most would agree producing a movie only showcasing the misgivings of blacks (for instance) would be seen as an unfair, one-sided attack and racist to the core. Somehow, however, to make aspersions on the Catholic faith is seen as fair game. How sad it is that people who command the attention of the masses don't use their wide spread access to actually shed light on an obviously deep subject but chose to demean and antagonize instead. Let's just hope Bill never claims to be a journalist.

Bill Mahar has the right in this country to share this thoughts like every other American. However, he, and those who believe in his line of thinking, surely run the risk missing out on one of the great satisfactions of life. To have nothing to believe in seems like quite a poverty of the soul to me.

Hooray for Bill! This country is going to HEQQ in a handbasket right now thanks to the religious fascists who are trying to dictate their so called "moral values" on everyone, as if everyone who disagrees with them is morally bankrupt.

I say enough. Stand up to them and put and end to their ruination of this country!!!

malmax wrote:

"First of all, the word "niggardly" has NOTHING to do with the Negroe race/blacks/African-Americans, etc.. It applies to managing money (look it up)."

Actually malmax, the definition of the word is "miserly" -- and no I didn't have to look it up, but thanks anyway ;-)

You might find the Wikipedia entry for the word "niggardly" of interest. Look it up. (no snarky comeback intended). Here is a snippet:

>>>The public controversies caused some commentators to speculate that "niggardly" would be used more often, both in its correct sense and as fodder for childish humor, as a racist code word or both.

Consider what you are defending: some other poster who grumbled over being called a racist if he made a movie "about the continued failures of black america and their violent misogynist ways". Dude, that is a sweeping, racist statement! (BTW I am not African American but recognize a racist statement...please, re-read that quote again, slowly!)

It is troubling and downright pathetic that someone who is presumably a Christian would make such a morally and logically-impaired argument for a pro-Christian rebuttal of Bill Maher's film. Instead that other poster unwittingly wrote a piece of self-parody.

>“if you make a movie called "Niggardly" about the continued failures of black america and their violent misogynist ways then people call you a racist.”

Slight difference. You can choose your religion – you can't choose your race. That's why a movie like that wouldn't come out by anyone with a brain. Like I said before, people need to stop holding religion up to some “no touch” land where it's free from critical inquiry. Religion is an ideology, just like racism, communism, democracy, football fandom, etc. We're free to criticize democracy, why can't we criticize Christianity? Because someone's feelings will get hurt? People's feelings get hurt all the time in political “liberal vs conservative” debates, but no one outlaws slandering liberals or conservatives.

I couldn't disagree with Bill Maher more..and I hope God is merciful towards Bill Maher.

The Catholics are a part of God's Church, which by the Grace of God is perfect and holy. The Pope is a awesome man of God with awesome responsiblity. So in that sense, we need to pray for the Pope more, rather than point our finger at him!

Isaiah 58:9-14

Best of wishes

I honestly don't care what kind of movie Maher makes, since I'm not a fan of movies in general. I do think it's somewhat disingenuous of him though.

For one, the admittedly little advertisement of the movie thus far portray it as a documentary, even though Maher already admitted that he lied to the participants. And what argument, if any, will this film attempt to assert? I doubt it's an outright attack on spirituality, since Maher's stated publicly that he believes in some kind of force that he called God. If it's to educate on the dangers of organized religion, how come he focuses only on western religions? Are they more dangerous than others? If it's simply to educate on religion in general, why not speak to the leaders of various faiths and active critics of religion instead of making a "documentary styled" comedy?

Sadly, I have the feeling that Maher was simply worried about his fading popularity and decided to make a movie (likely as much a true documentary as Fahrenheit 9/11 was) that he knew would get a lot of attention, regardless of whether or not that attention is merited.

I may be wrong. I hope so. Not because I care about what any individual thinks, but I'm somewhat worried that as a group a sizeable portion of the audience of this film will take it at face value, and regardless of one's view on religion, I think most people would agree that the world doesn't really need more religious intolerance right now.