McCain, Vietnam, and a cross in the dirt
The McCain campaign is reacting angrily to a debate raging in the blogosphere about whether the GOP presidential candidate could have embellished or even appropriated his oft-told anecdote about connecting with one of his hostage-taker guards in Vietnam over their shared Christian faith. A McCain spokesman has now posted quotes from two of the candidate's fellow POWs who, the campaign says, have confirmed that McCain told them long ago that the guard drew a cross in the dirt as a sign of Christian solidarity.
McCain told the story most recently on Saturday night, at the Saddleback Civil Forum hosted by Rick Warren of Purpose Driven Life fame:
"The Vietnamese kept us in prison in conditions of solitary confinement, or two or three to a cell. They did that because they knew they could break down our resistance. One of the techniques that they used to get information was to take ropes and tie them around your biceps, loop the rope around your head and pull it down beneath your knees and leave you in that position. You can imagine it's very uncomfortable. One night, I was being punished in that fashion. All of sudden the door of the cell opened and the guard came in. The guy who was just -- what we call the gun guard -- just walked around the camp with the gun on his shoulder. He went like this and loosened the ropes. He came back about four hours later and tightened them up again and left. The following Christmas, because it was Christmas day, we were allowed to stand outside of our cell for a few minutes. In those days we were not allowed to see or communicate with each other, although we certainly did. And I was standing outside, for my few minutes outside at my cell. He came walking up. He stood there for a minute, and with his sandal on the dirt in the courtyard, he drew a cross and he stood there. And a minute later, he rubbed it out, and walked away. For a minute there, there was just two Christians worshipping together. I'll never forget that moment."
A moving anecdote, and, as it happens, politically useful for a candidate eager to demonstrate his Christian credentials. And McCain told the story almost exactly the same way in his book, "Faith of My Fathers,'' published in 1999, when he was first running for president, about a guard who had periodically loosened his ropes approaching him one Christmas. This is what McCain wrote then:
"He walked up and stood silently next to me. Again, he didn't smile or look at me. He just stared at the ground in front of us. After a few moments had passed he rather nonchalantly used his sandaled foot to draw a cross in the dirt. We both stood wordlessly looking at the cross until, after a minute or two, he rubbed it out and walked away. I saw my good Samaritan often after the Christmas when we venerated the cross together. But he never said a word to me nor gave the slightest signal that he acknowledged my humanity.''
But over the last few days there has been increasing skepticism about the anecdote in the blogosphere, particularly among writers critical of McCain, fueled by a lack of evidence that McCain ever publicly told the story before 1999.
The flap seems to have begun over at the Daily Kos, where blogger rickrocket wrote that the anecdote "sounded so fake and so contrived" and intimated that it could have been lifted from Solzhenitsyn, who supposedly told a similar story from his days in the gulag. Talking Points Memo finds a Solzhenitsyn scholar who has actually read "The Gulag Archipelago" and says Solzhenitsyn never told the cross story. But, whether or not Solzhenitsyn ever said it, it was subsequently attributed to him by evangelicals, including Chuck Colson.
Blogger hilzoy, at Obsidian Wings, is among the skeptics, saying that McCain did not tell the cross-in-the-dirt story either in 1973, when he wrote about his captivity, or in 1995, when he spoke to an author about his Christmases in captivity. And Andrew Sullivan, an Obama enthusiast, has been hammering away at the issue for several days, writing:
"No one is disputing in any way what McCain did in Vietnam, his heroism, his sacrifice or any jot and tittle of his combat in arms and time in captivity. What we're curious about is how an urban legend in Christianist circles (attributed to Solzhenitsen but originating, so far as one can tell, in Chuck Colson) reshaped and altered an actual, utterly believable story of rare humanity in a prison camp. And how a campaign not only adopted the improved story but then wielded it in a campaign ad and as a critical message to evangelicals. If that ad is not actually true - and its depiction of the cross in the dirt we know is false (according to McCain, it was done with a sandal; in the ad it is done, as in Colson's account, with a stick) - it's a question of challenging a campaign's veracity, and what can only be called a cynical use of religion."
The McCain campaign, which maintains a blog called the McCain Report on which it has been responding to attacks, has produced what it says are confirmatory recollections from two of McCain's fellow POWs, here and here. The McCain campaign's Michael Goldfarb writes:
"It may be typical of the pro-Obama Dungeons & Dragons crowd to disparage a fellow countryman's memory of war from the comfort of mom's basement, but most Americans have the humility and gratitude to respect and learn from the memories of men who suffered on behalf of others. John McCain has often said he witnessed a thousand acts of bravery while he was imprisoned, and though not every one has been submitted into the public record, they are remembered by the men who were there.''
I called Goldfarb to ask about the dispute, and he said, "The bottom line in all this is that McCain’s fellow POWs are saying they heard it from him at the time. People can say that all these people are liars, and there’s nothing we can do about it -- we don’t have a video of this incident. But these guys corroborated it, McCain has credibility, and we don’t feel the need to defend this kind of stuff.''
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If the American POWs were not allowed to communicate with each other , How can there be confirmation by others? No one saw it but there is confirmation ?
OMG, a Republican said a story!! he must be a liar!! Obama OBAMA OBAMA!!
Lets ignore Obama's connection to a corrupt Chicago political machine... or the fact that Obama is running on the same change platform, that George. W. Bush ran on???
SEEING IS NOT TALKING. YOU WEREN'T SUPOSE TO TALK IN SCHOOL BUY YOU DID!
Christian doctrine is all about faith. If you do not have it,dont bother reading about it . The apostle thomas was the first one to be taken to task by his redeemer,when he was told "blessed is he who believes without seeing"
The assertion by McCain's critics is, in part, that the story lacks credibility because he did not publicly tell it prior to 1999 (the implication, of course, being that it is shared in a self-serving attempt to bolster his image in preparation for the2000 presidential election). The confirmation of McCain's fellow-POW's is that he did, indeed, share the story prior to 1999 (in 1971 by one account). Read McCain's comments from this past Saturday again. In particular read, "In those days we were not allowed to see or communicate with each other, although we certainly did". Read McCain's comments again and pay particular attention to, "The Vietnamese kept us in prison in conditions of solitary confinement, or two or three to a cell", and ask whether two or three prisoners might have found some way to communicate with each other. For a sense of what POW's endured and how they resisted (including how they managed to communicate with each other at great personal risk) read any of the publications on the following list:
http://www.nampows.org/nampowbooks.html
Read with special attention any of the works of the late Admiral James B. Stockdale for insight into the daily life and resistance by American POW's.
The POW’s in Vietnam used both written and TAP (think Morse code) communication to talk to each other. They used this to converse, keep up morals, compile and memorize a list of American prisoner names (most importantly) to bring back to the States. Once the US knew of a prisoner it was more difficult for the Vietnamese to make someone disappear.
Whatever. This is small potatoes compared to McCain's tall tales with respect to the environment and energy ("drill! drill! drill!), his "pro-woman" stance (not even close) his economic vision (none) and his command of foreign policy skills (again, none). If true, it's a great story of a Vietnamese prison guard demonstrating Christian compassion to an American prisoner, whom the guard assumed shared the same belief system. It says nothing of the prisoner, who has spent most of his public life doing decidely unchristian acts, including cheating on his wife, engaging in finanical debacles, and courting both anti-catholic and antisemetic evangelicals.
And to give Goldfarb the last line commenting on McCains "credibility" is too rich. McCain is not credible; the media is simply gullible.
K Ohara has an excellent point. Obama is running on the exact same platform as George Bush did. Now lets all repeat that phrase until we think it is actually true. Given the fact that it is an absurd, blatant falsehood, it should take at least 3-4 repetitions before we all buy into it.
Thanks for elevating the discourse, K. reading your comment made me feel as though I just licked the sidewalk in Downtown Crossing.
I agree that "the Christian doctrine is all about faith," but I resent someone with no substantial track record in matters of faith when they use a saccharine Christmas story to buy my vote and manipulate my faith.
Moreover, McCain's experience as a POW is fine, but why do we all have to unflinchingly repeat it like some mantra or benediction every time we talk about this guy? There are plenty of pols who served with honor and have done much more for vets. And there are plenty to heroic vets who suffered in the same camps as McCain who have no access to healthcare-name one thing of substance that McCain has done for them since taking public office.
While we get hot and bothered over crosses in the dirt, we forget that the good Senator has skipped out on key votes for energy and healthcare while scolding congress to "get back to work," and has voted against a better GI bill while acting as a friend to our vets. You simply cannot find a bigger poser in the lot of 'em. And NO ONE has called him out on it. They say that in a democracy like this, you get the leader you truly deserve...
Hmmm Dungeons and Dragons crowd? McCain is gonna lose the geek vote!
God has His people everywhere. Even in the oppressed countries i.e. Vietnam.
I believe the story as told by John McCain. He lived to tell the story of faithfulness of his Savior.
dmallen
Senator McCain,said while in Vitnam... 'I am a black criminal and I have performed the deeds of an air pirate. I almost died and the Vietnamese people saved my life, thanks to the doctors.' McCain has never forgiven himself for this moment of weakness. Hero's do not succumb to such things, There is a certain amount of PR and Marketing to this man that is uncomfortable.
As a McCain supporter, I sincerely hope the Obama people keep "hammering away" at this. Facing unimaginable torture, McCain stood up for his country. Can't really see how reminding people about this helps Obama....
John McCain could have video of the incident in question and still the lefties would have nothing but negative things to say about him. Honor, sacrifice, duty and courage are emotions foreign to many of them. They look down on the military and disparage those who volunteer to serve. This is why Mainstream America dislikes and distrusts them and their candidates. This is also why their champion and candidate is running even with a septugenarian Republican at a time when the Democrats should be blowing out the GOP. The more the left speaks out, the stronger McCain's candidacy becomes.
David, the POW’s in Vietnam communicated between themselves using written messages and TAP communication (think Morse code). They would use this to converse, keep morale up and (most important of all), learn all the prisoner names to bring back to the States. That way a prisoner was known.
For the record, I consider myself a Lincoln/ Eisenhower/Roosevelt Republican and have no particular interest in Obama's candidacy.
I would like to challenge the McCain apologists, again, to show me how this story illustrates ANYTHING about McCain's character. All it does is demonstrate the courage, compassion and faith of a lone VC guard. I would be impressed if instead McCain drew a cross in the sand, but he did not.
The reality is that there are literally thousands of Vietman era vets without access to healthcare and with limited labor rights, as well as thousands of current day active duty and vets with inadequate access to body armor, post war care, or access to a meaningful GI bill-all of these are basic rights that anyone who has served with honor would expect. McCain has voted against a reasonable GI bill and has nothing of interest to say with respect for healthcare and treatment of those who made it home and do not the luxury of fame and fortune. His voting record (ie, the one thing he is beng paid by taxpayers to actually do) is abysmal-he has not voted on anything recently (for or against-where's the "maverick" conviction?) he professes to believe in.
It is therefore morally regugant to watch these PR goons lionize one (mediocre)man, when thousands quietly suffered with dignity (and still do). I am comforted only by the fact that regardless of the outcome of this election, this will likely be last in which we are subjected to McCain's recent and troubling posturing, and from Col Bud Day's unwanted and irrelevant comments.
The irony is that in 2000, McCain was a man who could lead-he had not yet traded all his principles, and back then he would have never let himself be surrounded with the people he now needs to bolster his campaign. He certainly had my vote.
But no more. It is truly sad to see this one time war hero loftily paraded on the backs of the same folk who brutally sabotaged him 8 years ago.
At any rate, McCain is not the man he was 8 years ago, and certainly not the man he was in Vietnam. Pols, like fish and houseguests, have a limited shelf life-they start to reek if they stick around too long.
I have yet to cast a protest vote, but this might be the year.
GW Bush ran as an agent of change... a Washington outsider... Instead of trying to be clever and personally put me down in a comment, why don't you research it?
Obama is running on the same general campaign that Bush did... an agent of change. Well except Bush had better political experience as an actual governor... and um governing... where as Obama is a junior senator, and part of the corrupt Chicago political machine... Look it up. Don't be afraid of the truth... it makes you a better person.
Its odd that two (out of 36 or so who were brought together) are backing McCain now, huh, especially when both are supporters? One of the two, Swindle, is practically a staffer.
None of us know what happened in Hanoi. But it would be nice if the McCain responses actually addressed the real questions.
This is a story attributed to Solzhenitzen, a couple years before it appeared in McCain's book about himself. McCain was a Solzhenitzen fan, and included that author's decision to write the Gulag Archipelago in his (McCain's) book as one of 12 historical "tough calls."
So now we have this odd coincidence of similar events attributed to two people, when those two are connected via authorship.
Add in the fact that McCain once told the story as though it had happened to another POW, and it starts to sound like someone got caught in a lie.
Dave, Before you jump to conclusions and doubt someone, please take the time to learn about these POWs. I was lucky to hear a former Hanoi Hilton prisoner speak at a company moltivational function. It was moving to hear him explain how he had spents weeks in a cell with a broken arm. When he was at his breaking point, he realized that the prisoner next to him was trying to communicate via a hole in the wall using a string. They used morse code and replaced the dots and dashes with different tugs.
He explained that the first message saved his life. To paraphase him, it was something like these cement walls do not in prision your mind. This speaker went on to detail how one prisioner memorized every prisioners name, hometown, and parents name. When it came time to be release someone, this man was picked to return and let everyone's family know they were still alive.
In the end this Navy pilot lost 6 1/2 years in prision, his wife remarried and his kids didn't remember him. Lastly, my fathers brother died in a Korean Prision Camp were he was starved and frozen to death. A fellow prisonier was nice enough to visit my family and explain how my uncle died and where he was buried. Also, how his body was washed down the river when the spring floods came.
So when questioning POW stories in the future, please educate yourself about their life in prision . You might also ask yourself, maybe I should give the POWs the benefit of the doubt or pick another issue to question their honesty on, but not their memories of captivity.
McCain is a fraud.He talks like a man that is for the people,but people have forgotten that he should have gone to prison with Keating for particpating in the first savings and loan debarcle.He is supose to be mister nice guy,but if you beleive this I got a bridge to sell you.I also believe the cross story is just another lie from a person that has changed his, stand on everything he used to stand for.I could have voted for him 10 years ago,but now there is no possibe way that I could.
As a member of the "Pro-Obama Dungeons and Dragons Crowd" (really, look of facebook) I would just like to say that, just as some people play evil characters, some D&D players do support McCain. The rest of us, particularly clerics and paladins, know that if anyone can throw a saving throw vs. death that our country needs Barack Obama can. We don't deserve d100 more years in Iraq, that campaign is lousy anyway! Elves, dwarves, half-orcs, we are ONE people. I'm voting for the Lawful Good choice: Barack Obama.
Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. And Obama claims to be a Christian who doesn't recall his minister's virulent anti-America message during twenty years of association and attendance at his church. It was only after entering into the race for the presidency that he suddenly took notice of that.
Politicians, both of them, McCain and Obama. Of the two, Obama's is the background I don't trust, nor do I believe that any American should trust it. The son of a Muslim partially raised in a Muslim land, Indonesia, just how much of his Muslim background does he really carry with him and cherish? It is a tenet of Islam that it is not only permissable to lie in order to further the cause of Islam, but actually is desiriable to do so. This includes even lieing about being Muslim.
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Photo, by Yoon S. Byun of the Globe staff, shows Harriet Severino, 45, practicing Zen meditation on May 19, 2009 at a weekly gathering called Ralph Waldo Emerson Zen Sangha at the First Church in Boston (Unitarian Universalist).
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