A view from the minaret

Unfortunatey the Muslim religion is not one of peace but of war with long term goal to conquer and spread the only true religion throughout the planet. However as with all conquering armies they have outrun their supply lines and it is most likely the teenagers of either this generation or the next who will not carry on the death cult and subjegation of women which is Islam.

This Mosque is brought to you by the letter G and a generous donation by the Massachusetts Taxpayers.

It is a great joy that our Muslim brothers and sisters have a beautiful new place to worship and gather for Ramadan.
May we all open their hearts and minds to learn more about the real aspirations of the Muslim faith.
Rev Mary Robinson
A member of Daughters of Abraham *

* An multi-faith group of women in the Boston area (observant Jews, Muslims and Christians), who meet monthly to share a meal, discuss a book, and to learn more about each other's lives and faith .
see
http://www.daughtersofabraham.info

To Ken and others similarly inclined:
Yes, it's true that if you look at the surface of "Muslim" societies of today--whether in Indonesia or Middle East or even Europe--we see a very disturbing picture of intolerance. However, this has nothing to do with Islam and partially to do with the media coverage of those events. Are you telling me that not a day goes by where a Muslim hasn't done a good deed? There are over 1 billion Muslims (if not 50% more) and do you really think that Muslims are inclined towards a "death cult"? The fact of the matter is that today's situation is a direct result of a) Muslims losing their Islamic ways and b) the Western Colonialism and direct political interference in Muslim countries in the past two or three centuries (supporting dictatorships, sending Christian missionaries to attack Islam, looting their natural resources, etc.).
People need to separate the religion from its followers if they truly want to understand Islam. Certainly throwing ill-conceived notions about the religion in an attempt to confuse the public is not in the best interest of our society. There is a great opportunity for inter-faith dialogue if we stick to how best we can use our religious teachings to bring peace on earth rather than use it to spread hatred.

To quote someone on the radio, " not all Muslims are terrorists, but all the terrorists have been Muslims".

This from Michael Graham's blog this morning:

"The taxpayers of Boston subsidized the building of this mosque by "donating" a $2 million parcel of land to the ISB for less than $200,000--a deal arranged when a member of the Boston Redevelopment Board also just happened to be a fundraiser for the ISB.

The ISB is notorious for its support of terror advocates like Mullah Al-Qawadari, who was the first prominent mullah to urge women to become suicide bombers, too. The ISB has actually distributed the teachings of this sicko. And now, thanks to Mayor Menino, they've got a publicly-funded mosque to continue their work.

Only in Boston... "

Michael nails it. To Ken and others similarly inclined: AMEN.

Patricia (and others) who use the term terrorist so thoughtlessly, please define this term. I think you'll be (unpleasantly) surprised to find that "Christians" throughout history have not turned the cheek as instructed by Jesus (peace be upon him). Take a basic course in Western Civilization and you'll realize just how terrorizing is this history. Of course, why bother with learning facts when it's so convenient to regurgitate false and misleading statements heard on the radio! I don't know why we don't just replace our educational system with talk radio. I mean, is there anything talk radio can't resolve?

Congratulations to the Boston Muslim community on the near completion and present use of their beautiful mosque. We still hear, even among the comments on this article, many voices of simple prejudice. The Muslims meeting for prayer in their new home in Roxbury are seeking peace for us all. May their voice be heard

Raymond G. Helmick, S.J.
Boston College

Patrica,

I am sure Timothy McVeigh would disagree with you. Or does he not count?

.....not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terroists have been Muslim.....

So would that mean people like Timothy McVeigh...Terry Nichols...and groups like he IRA ....in it's darkest days ....the KKK still in question of terrrorist acts today, but have a known history of hatred and terrorizing mankind are all or have been associated with Islam and Muslims.????

It doesn't do any good to hurl potshots at each others. History shows that almost no group of people is exempt from committing violence.

#1 the Holy Books of the Jews, Christians and Muslims are filled with exhorations to kill the 'others.' Jihad, forced conversion, massacres by adherents of religion in the name of religion. It's important that these religions that talk about peace, love and compassion give their religious a bath (from Karen Armstrong's "History of God")

#2 Adherents of monotheistic religions are notorious for in-fighting, persecution forced conversions, killing apostates, massacres and religious wars. That's because most sects claim their way of worshipping God is the only one acceptable. God becomes their tool. "God told us to do it."

#3 Christianity claims it has superseded Judaism as the New Israel. Islam claims that the two older religions have texts that were compromised and so the tru message was given to Muslims and that the prophets of the Jews and Christians were Muslims. I wonder if Jews ever get ticked off about somebody else trying to steal their religion. These are authority claims and self-validation and self-justification. Any student of Psychology 101 can tell you this.

#4 Religions should have the intellectual honesty and humility to state their religions are based on beliefs and are not capable of proof.

#5 Instead of trying to manipulate God and reduce him to their tribal totlem, religions should admit thaty only God is Absolute, huma beings are not . We are penultimate.

#6 These religions claim that God is loving, compassionate and merciful. Since that is how God is and how God views us, that's how we should treat each other...as God treats us.

#7 the competition among Judaism, Christianity and Islam for the "Truth" as they see it has been characterized as a struggle to see who will be the favorite son, Isaac, Ismael or Jesus, to whom has been given the inheritance.

#8 As soon as some "religious" type starts spouting that his religious is the correct one, then watch out...head out....protect yourself.

#9 God got out of the RELIGiON a long time ago. People are still in.

As for "not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim." This is the statement of a well-known Shia Lebanese journalist who made the remark on al-Jazira TV.

Alexander
Reitred Episcopal Priest

I don't think the controversy is going anywhere. The real estate deal brokered by BRA director Muhammed Ali-Salaam - who was an ISB member working on fund raising for the ISB - was scandalous. Slight conflict of interest here? What ever happened to those valuable city benefits Boston was promised?

The ISB has the same troublesome trustees that they had before: Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi is still a proposed trustee (he supports suicide bombing and death for homomsexuals and apostates); Jamal Badawi (some equally hairy ideology from the soft-spoken Dr. Badawi, who was mentioned by name in the Muslim Brotherhood planning documents made public during the Holy Land Foundation trial); and Dr. Walid Fitaihi, he of the "the Jews are the scourge of the earth" fame. Fitahi resigned as an ISB trustee days before he was to be subject to interrogatories in the ISB lawsuit. Shortly after the lawsuit was withdrawn, Fitaihi was reinstated as a trustee. Even the Boston Gobe's own editor wrote an editorial back in 2004 calling for the ISB to "distance themselves" from Fitaihi. They've done no such thing. That's a fine controversy all by itself. The ISB should be ashamed to have brought Fitaihi back in. The ISB's interfaith supporters should be ashamed to support a group who would have such people as trustees.

There are many Muslims who are tired of our local politicians and media going to the ISB//MAS as if they represent all Muslims in Massachusetts, when they represent a pretty "conservative" strain of Islam. When will Mayor Menino and the Boston Globe catch a clue that the ISB/MAS speaks only for their several hundred members, not for all Massachusetts Muslims?

There is a claim that the city of Boston gave the land to the Muslim community for a low price. In fact the city of Boston gave land to Churches and Synogogues as well (more than a dozen times). There is nothing unusual about the city selling land for a subsidized price to a religious group.

As for Qaradawi, I dont know his relation to the mosque in particular. But he is a Muslim shcolar well known and famous in many places around the Globe. He was in a forum with Bill Clinton recently. If you want to find out about him, you can read the view of the Mayor of London about him, who hosted him in England http://www.london.gov.uk/news/docs/qaradawi_dossier.pdf

As for terrorism: Terrorism has been commited in the name of all religions. Muslims in America are against terrorism as much as anyone else. If you want to find out about your local Muslim community visit the new mosque, which I visited and I know is open for everyone.

Sorry, Adam, there's nothing comparable in the property transfer to the ISB. If there were, the ISB and BRA would have provided specifics. Instead, we get the throwaway line: "This has happened a dozen times." Not that amount of land and not for such a reduced price. No, the ISB got a pretty special deal from the BRA, with assistance from inside the BRA.

Former London mayor Ken Livingstone thought that Sheikh Qaradawi was a fine fellow? Well, then what could possibly be wrong with Qaradawi's support for suicide bombing or death for homosexuals, or for his assertions that Islam will dominate all other religions. Yes, Qaradawi is very well known, but that doesn't make him a suitable trustee - or speaker or fundraiser - for the ISB.

If you want to find out about your local Muslim community, Adam, try visiting other mosques! There are dozens in eastern Massachusetts alone. They don't all have the $$$ and power that the ISB/MAS does, but there are many thriving Islamic communities around. Some have been here decades longer than the ISB.

The Muslim communtiy in America has came out against all suicide bombings. This is just wrong.

Local mosques in MA are in support of MAS and ISB. In fact, the mosque would not have been built without support of the Muslim community. Go and ask the Imams of the African American community in Roxbury, who have been instrumental for the project. Without their support (for decades) the project would not have been built. This is the same for the umbrella organization for all Muslims in New England (Islamic Council of New England), and mosques in wayland, lowell, sharon, quincy, and many others.

unfortunately, there are a few elements in the Jewish community who are just dead set in seeing the Muslim communtiy fail in America. All they want is to demonize the Muslim community, and this is espcially true for any large or influential project. They would rather the Muslim community continue to be unkown without institutions or a way to represent itself. They feel that a positive growth of the Muslim communmity in America is somehow dangerous for the Jewish community. Fortunately, this is a minority within the Jewish communtiy. The overwelming support from Jewish and Christian organizations who have actually worked with people from the mosque is truly telling about how great America is.

And by the way, you can't tell me to "go back to my country", because this IS my country.

Islam is not a religion of peace. It is a religion that calls for the death or dominance of non-Muslims. The persecution of Christians and Jews across the Islamic world, shows us the true face of Islam. Muslims cause the same problems across the world. They impose and intimidate. There have been pro-Hezbollah rallies in 4 states here. The last one in Michigan had 15,000 American Muslims there. Also dozens of Mosques here have been caught preaching hate here in America. Interfaith groups are just a con and stall tactic by Muslims. Just like the one the Saudis recently held in Spain. Just weeks later they deported 16 Christians. Islam also encourages its followers to lie, so do not believe anything that they say. They will tell us what we want to hear, as long as the Islamic agenda of world conquest moves forward. The Christians who helped with this Mosques need to toughen up and look at Christians are treated across the Islamic world. The persecution of Christians has already started in the UK. It is just a matter of time until it starts here. As Muslims always act friendly until their communities build up. That is when imposing starts.

Persecution of Christians in the UK.

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/06/no-bible-zone-uk.html

It is time to end all Muslim immigration.
For more on the issue.

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/

Zahid,

You want us to separate the intolerance of Muslim societies from Islam, but yet fail to explain why it is that the mullahs, imams and other "religious" leaders of Islam continually site the Koran, Hadith and Sura as their justification for this same intolerance. I would be equally disturbed if the leadership of the Baptist Council or the Pope used passages from the Bible to justify the killing of non-believers; so far they haven't. Until I see a reform movement in Islam that strongly rejects the verses of the Koran, Hadith and Sura calling for the murder of apostates, homosexuals and women, I will continue to be suspect of Muslims in general. Sorry.... Just looking out for my own good.

Ed and Chris. Please re-read your post. Your post is so full of hate. So full of demonization to an entire group of people. Trust me when I tell you that your views are very similar in nature to the views being taught to the suicide bombers : being told that America is Evil; pure evil. Focusing only on the WORST possible on one side and never wanting to see anything good. If people focus on the worst that America has done, they will legitimize so much hate - just like what you are doing.

Are you so naive as not to see that every people ; every religion ; every country has evil people in it? You are like someone from the middle east who looks at Abu Ghuraib (or Gitmo, or Hiroshima), and sees this as a pure description of what America has to offer - because of the sins of some people. And then, without reading anything in the constitution, comes and says: the constitution made them to this, and therefore it is pure evil. It even allowed them to treat other human beings as worthy of 3/5 a person (slavery in America).

Please GROW UP. The world is full of good and bad on all sides. There are indeed terrible Muslims - but it is inspite of the religion, and not because of the religion. There are many Muslims who are truly faithful to their country (and yes, I mean, my country, America), and who are also faithful to their religion.

Islam is the only religion that from the outser recognized the validity of Christians and Jews. There is an entire chapter in the Quran called "Mary", the mother of Jesus (peace be upon him).

Yahweh started out as the tribal war God of the Hebrews (Lord, God of Hosts). Demanding, vindictive, vengeful, jealous. Over time this changed so that God became the merciful and just , the Compassione One who seeks to rescue and save. Jews are fobbiden from being oppressors and predators. They must be just and do deeds of loving kindness.

Christianity started out as pacifist Messianic Jewish sect and continued that way for some time. It spread from city to city in the Roman Empire. It lost the pacifist commitment, except for the Amish, Quakers and Mennonites. Christians are allwoed to defend themselves, but must not be aggressors or unjust. They must be just and do works of mercy as signs of their faith.

Islam inherited the double-edged view of Yawheh. It spread by the sword. Jihad is allowed. If you don't believe me, read in the Quran. The attempt to reduce Jihad to
inner struggle against evil is a valid interpretation, but not the main one. Islam stresses justices and compassion. Non-Muslims are allowed to keep their religion, but are second-class citizens. This attitude and practise has been abandoned in countries like Jordan and Syria.

I have been to Muslim countries and have heard many opinions offered to me by Muslim acquaintances and friends. Some were observant, most were not. Some are even agnostic. I have heard such sentiments as, "science has the answer, not religion." Other acquaintances have told me Muslims should read the writings in the Jewish and Christian Bibles as did so many Muslims from 650-1000 AD. Non-Muslims, i.e. Christians, Alevi, Alawites, Druse, Zoroasrians and Muslim groups like the Ismaili who are regarded to be on the fringe of Islam believe they are living on borrowed time, because Islam is aggressive, self-righteous and considers itself the only true religion. I am glad I no one else heard what a Druse in Syria told me. Islam has changed and evolved. Mohamed 's first teachers were Syrian and Persian teachers. He kept adjusting his teachings to suit the moment. And so he made something out of nothing. Don't blame me. I didn't say it! The same can and is said about every religion. They are inventions (ead the poetry of the 10th Muslim rationalist Al M'aari).

Sadly, I have to state that there's is no talking with an observant Muslim. Theirs is the only way. They will argue theology and criticize the two older religions of Judaism and Christianity because they have (unadmitted) an inferiorty complex about being the last kid on the block. Sadly, with rare exception, where Islam is the predominant religion, others live on its "tolerance." The hype about the "beautiful society of Muslim, Christian and Jewish Andalucia" is just that...it depended on the ruler's tolerance and handle on power. When they lost it, massacres followed. The same goes for Christianity for hundreds of years. Catholics wanted to dominate the Orthodox. Protestants and Catholics killed each other by the millions.
Muslims have been at each others' throats since the death of the prophet.

The only way out is for religions to give up their claims of Universal and Sole Truth. But they won't because they are afraid of losing their power and legitimacy. They don't understand, if they give up their unsupportable claims, they actually will gain, since they will no longer try to play at being God, use God, manipulate God, be God. I don't hold out much hope (though some have mercifully opted out of this already). They have to be right and in the end will kill to prove it. let the record speak for itself. And no excuses that "it's not the religion; it's the culture or the people." (yeah, like it's not communism; it was Stalin and Lenin). No, they go together.

Alexander

I hope it is not considered hate speech to quote the Koran. Here are some of the things that ALL Moslems are required to believe (even if not all of them do, in fact, believe them).
--Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve. (8.55)
-- The unbelievers are your inveterate enemy. (4:101)
-- Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. (48:29).
-- It is unlawful for a believer to kill another believer, accidents excepted. (4:92)
-- Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)

10 -- Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (5:51)

WAR ON NON-MOSLEMS

11 -- Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)

12 -- Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. (2:193)

13 -- The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. 14 -- Fight then against the friends of Satan. (4:76)

15 -- We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3:150)

16 -- I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. (8:12)

17 -- Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love aggressors. Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is more grievous than bloodshed. (2:190-191)

18 -- When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. (9:5)

One of the most kind and hopeful things I ever heard was said by a Sunni Palestinian friend. He said, "I think it's an outrage that the People of the Book cannot worship and build their houses of worship in Saudi Arabia, even in Mecca. We build a huge mosque in Rome. It's a disgrace to Islam to be so narrow-minded" It's a start.

Yep. There it is given to us by #20, Montedoro. The two senior religions have mostly given up (given their texts a bath) the equivalent calls to violence in their sacred scriptures, although some people want to kill gays and oppress women etc. The same people, however, would probably briddle at the thought of being driven out of town for having defiled themselves and committed the abomination of having had sex during the wife's menopause (Leviticus 18:19). Anybody want to tour the neighbourhood, knock on doors, "have you and your wife...?"

Elie Wiesel, the Shoa survivor, was asked about the condemnations of homosexuality in the bible (7 verses). He said the Bible was like a coal mine filled with diamonds. Go for the diamonds. Some things can be disgarded as the religion evovlves to understand more closely the will of God.

How can Islam do it, when Muslims considers the words of the Quran to be the actual words of God to humanity? Well, in the beginning of Islam it wasn't this way. It was argued for a long time that the words of the Quran were created and therefore not co-eternal with God. To consider the Quran uncreated was shirk (idolatry). Only God is the Uncreated One. Once the Rationalist School who claimed the Quran was created had been discredited (for reasons I don't get in here), the dogmatization of Islam began.

Sacralizing texts is a game human beings play to justify claims, grab power, assert authority and trash someone else or some other group who is not a member of their tribe. Once it's done, it's very difficult to back out of the trap that one has set. The text becomes a pefrifact. All sorts of myths are invented about it. St. Paul wrote 14 epistles in the NT. He wrote 7. Even the early church said only God knew he wrote the Epistle to the Hebrews and the Book of Daniel. At least they were honest. We know that the Quran is basically the same as it was 1300 years ago, but it was still being emended as late as 950 AD. There's even a fragment of a Hadith in it. But that in itself neither negates or validates any religious text. The problem lies in the unsupportable claims made and the results that lead to oppression, persecution and death of other human beings.

What does the New Testament actually say about itself? "These things were written so that you might believe." "These are for your edification." Into to the mouth of Jesus is put the statement that no man comes to the Father except through him. But this is the defensive statement of a beleaguered group of Jewish Christians in late 1st century Palestine.

Many Jews believe Torah comes straight from God and is co-eternal with God as the blueprint for the right way to live. This no different from Muslim claims for the Quran (with help from the Hadiths). Christians don't make this claim, because they are not supposed to be a people of a book, but of a Person. But their claims can be universalist. The liturgical churches say the Way is the eucharistic way...a life of offering, blessing, giving thanks, breaking to share and communion instead of the world's way...grabing, smashing, selfishness, tearing apart and destroying.

Other religions have the tenets. They just need to activate and promote, grow in them, live in them...and avoid the human tendency to destroy.

Any religion that claims to have the Truth...well, you've been warned.

Sorry. Any religion claims it has a sole monopoly on the Truth...beware.

For #20 on the Quranic verses.
Sure, you can choose to compete on a marathone about what the literal texts of each religion says. I hope that you have enough knowledge of the Bible and Torah to know that they have their share of tough violence as well. I really hate to do this, but you force me. So see at the end of this note about verses in the bible where God DEMANDS that EVERYONE is killed. "Kill them! Show no Mercy. Young, Old, and girls", etc... (see below for full text)

But this is not the point. The point is how you and I will choose to interepret these verses. YES THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE LOOKING for any justification to KILL. On BOTH SIDES. I am sure you know which religion the Serbs were, who killed thousands of Muslims in Bosnia. I am sure you know about the Crusades.

But the point is that, I, and more than 99.9999% of the Muslims (like all christians) choose to interpret our religion as peace. Because it is about peace.

How do we interpret the quranic verses that you quote?
1- they were talking about specific situations where Muslims were at a legitimate war, since they were attacked. Muslims did not choose these wars, but were attacked. God tells them to kill the infidents who are attacking them.

2- there are AMPLE examples during the life or prophet Muhammad, and throughout Muslim history where "non-Muslims" lived in peace with Muslims. In fact, the prophet was married to a Christian from Egypt! How come he did not kill them?

3- These verses are interpreted in the light similar to an American General, before his troops go to war, telling them : Go get these basterds! That is, they are limited in scope. This is how Muslims interpret them.

4- how about the "bad Muslims" who interpret them in the way you have up there: well, these people are rejected! In fact these people are KILLING MORE MUSLIMS than infidels.

5- Your views are as extreems as those of the most extreem Muslims who want to see everyone as bad. It is poeple like you who bring to society people like Osama Bin Laden. You reside in the same category of human beings because you want to see the other as pure evil, and yourself as pure good. This in unforutnate.

6- The Muslim community, and particularly in America, want to live in peace with our neighbors, while being true to our religion. We understand our religion as a peaceful religion that welcomes everyone and does live in a diverse society. Open your eyes and your heart and you will see the good. Muslims are not pure evil. Islam is not pure evil. That attitude is exactly what OBL is professing. You are falling into the sam trap.

Just in case you need to see some verses
Ezekiel 9:5-7

"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Zephaniah 2:12-15

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist. He will destroy Assyria and make its great capital, Nineveh, a desolate wasteland, parched like a desert. The city that once was so proud will become a pasture for sheep and cattle. All sorts of wild animals will settle there. Owls of many kinds will live among the ruins of its palaces, hooting from the gaping windows. Rubble will block all the doorways, and the cedar paneling will lie open to the wind and weather. This is the fate of that boisterous city, once so secure. "In all the world there is no city as great as I," it boasted. But now, look how it has become an utter ruin, a place where animals live! Everyone passing that way will laugh in derision or shake a defiant fist

Mohamed. Instead of getting so excited, can you understand the point some people are trying to make about TEXTS that are used to justify violence and authoirty claims that have no proof.

It does no good to cite one religion's text against another, since the texts call for killing the infidel or folks not like us ( that is, the other not like you). the major Semitic religions are guilty of aggression against each other and among their own.

Intelligent and open-minded people know that the vast majority of Muslims
are good, not evil people. I know open-minded, Muslims of a good-heart. The same for Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus and non-religious people I know and have known.

The Christian world experience centuries of religious strife and killings among
people who professed the same essential religion.

When believers in the One God start to compete and to claim that their particular Way is the ONLY Right Way...there will be strife and death.

The religions in question have to interpret the verses supporting violence as out-of-date. How do you deal with these texts? They are in 'sacred scriptures. What about the texts #20 cites? Are they all to be interpreted as pertaining only to Arabia in the time of the prophet?

Everybody is asked to help others. "Christian" countries from within NATO finally intervened to stop the slaughter of Muslims. The same for Kosovo.

The Muslims, Christians and Jews regarded the "Crusaders" as just another invasion by thugs. It was the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt who latched on to the Crusader label as part of their opposition to British rule. Small but important points.

Christians become nervous when they find out that churches cannot be built in Egypt without the personal signature of the President. It takes years to get approval. Installation of plumbing has to be approved. Converts from Islam are persecuted and can be kiilled without retribution. On the other hand the Emir of Qatar allows the Catholics, Orthodox and Anglicans to build churches and has even donated the land and been present for an opening. Christians in Jordan are treated very well and are regarded as full members of the nation. Although only 7% of the population they are given 10% of the seats in parliament and are given responsible positions in government. they have lived there for almost 2,000 years.

Muslims are attacked in parts of the Phillipines and Indonesia and they attack Christians.

St. Ausgustine of Hippo (354 430 AD) wrote that human beings are 'mixta massa." It means a dough composed of good and evil. That's for sure. It's important for all to say 'no' what is evil.

What's behind religious violence? ONE GROUP'S claim to have A MONPOLY ON THE TRUTH . The others will respond. Peoples of different religions who have lived with each other for centuries will turn on each other murderously, if something bad happens. Once the emotions GO UP and matters escalate, innocent blood will flow.

One can argue about texts, and rightness and whatever, and who hurt whom, but it is this claim to possessing the only right way that is the basis of all the strife. If we don't recognize this, I believe we are talking in circles.

I have a question. Mohamed wrote that "99.9999% of the Muslims (like all Christians) choose to interpret our religion as peace."

A different viewpoint.

When I was at an Episcopal seminary one of the other students, a Lutheran who preferred to attend ours, told me this story. He lived in Taiwan for 5 years. His wife was Taiwanese. he said that many Chinese were drawn to Christianity...to the stories of love, foregivness, grace, rightness with God, justice and a new start. When they found about Christian in-fighting, many said, "You come to us with this nice message, but why should we believe you, when you can't even get your own act together."

A very, very close friend of mine told me this sotry. When he, a Sunni Muslim, was serving in the Iraqi Army, he and other recruits, including many Shi'a prayed together. After a year, one of the Shia came up to him and said, "Are you Muslim?."
Likewise many Sunni don't regard Shi'a as Muslim.

Anybody can claim their religion is about peace. Then the shoe drops...they're the only ones who are the true believers. G'bye. I hope I have made my point.

Wherever there is caring love, I am there says the Lord.

This post is unintentionally revealing. Prior ISB spokespeople have assured the community that the call to prayer would not be broadcast outside the mosque. Now that it is built it is clear that they have no intention of honoring that pledge.

Typical false argument:

24. Mohamed: "Sure, you can choose to compete on a marathone about what the literal texts of each religion says. I hope that you have enough knowledge of the Bible and Torah to know that they have their share of tough violence as well. I really hate to do this, but you force me. So see at the end of this note about verses in the bible where God DEMANDS that EVERYONE is killed."

The Jewish and Christian holy texts are descriptive, whereas the Qur'an, Hadiths and Sira are...proscriptive. Clearly the Islamic texts are laden with open ended violent commands for the faithfull, while Jewish and Christian texts describe what took place. Any fighting to be done is meant to be taken in a spiritual context, not a literal one.

Mohamed knows this is true, that he chooses to obfuscate that basic truth, is left for everyone to decide on his reasons why.

I have never heard of anyone using OT scriptures to validate waging war on non-believers. Even in the event that something like that did take place, there would be such an overwhelming "avalanche" of condemnation by Jews and Christians over such an interpritation. Mohamed is stuck in a dilemma, that is why he chose to obfuscate the issue of the importance of the literal interpetation of Islamic texts by the Islamic scholars, teachers and leaders, as well as the its followers.

His prophet's "dictation" of Allah's words are deemed unchangeable, and cannot be interpreted in any other way than how they are written. It's another reason why "moderate" or non-purist Muslim leaders have such a difficult time in countering the purist's message, for the purists have Mohamed's texts handy that convincingly vindicate their message as being the truth.

Answer that one Mohamed.....

Why is this mosque blaring its call to prayer over a loudspeaker? Surely, in this age of technology with watch/cell phone/Blackberry alerts, a group so religious would be able to remember or be alerted on their own when to pray (for the subjugation/extermination of non-believers).

No, the blaring call to prayer is what it always has been throughout Islamic history--a sign of power/domination blasted from on high used to intimidate non-Muslims.

Boston has just gotten its first taste of its new overlords!

The Quran is supposed to be the literal words of God. However, God sometimes "speaks' in the first person, sometimes is addressed in the second and in the third person. Interesting.

Muslims insist that the Quran was not influenced by the writings or theology of the Jews and Christians, but it's easy to track the influence. Scholars do it all the time. Two examples. The story of Jesus making clay birds that turn into real ones comes from a gnostic gospel, infant narratvie, rejected by the church. The idea that Jesus did not die on the cross but another man was substituted is a belief taken from a small Christian sect (Docetists from the Greek word 'to seem") riwho believed that God would not let his chosen one die. He only seemed to be on the Cross. Abraham went down to Zamzam where he met Hagar and Ismael. There he built the Kaaba. this legend was current among the Arabian Jews of Mohamed's time.

The notion that texts show up miraculously without any human origin is, well, strange.

Arabic speakers insist the Quran in Arabic gives the right meanings. Translations can't. This way they can keep a monopoly on it. The vast majority of Muslims don't really know it well.

The reason why so much time is spent on interpretating the Quran is this: Experts in Classical Arabic say that about 20% of the text is obscure and incomprehensible. A lot of effort has to be put into figuring ii out.

It required an enormous effort to assemble the text and then the 3rd caliph decreed which one was the definitive text.

Let's make one thing real clear. In Islam it is permisible to spread the faith by the sword. Those who are conquered, if deemed a People of the Book, may keep their religion, but are tolerated, second-class citizens. Forced conversion to Islam was done a lot. It's actually forbidden, but...Forced conversion to Christianity was done a lot and is forbidden..Two wrongs don't make a right.

Muslims claim to be a religion of peace. to make this claim good, they must toss out the calls to violence, domination and aggression. In short, they have to repudiate certain texts, just as the older two religions have. We're not living in tribal 7th century Arabia anymore. And Jews are not living in Israel 1000 BC. Christians are not serving the imperial needs of conquering emperors and kings.

Well, we hope not.

Does anyone understand what it takes to get a religion out of its tribal, me-first, mentality into a pacific stance? Don't re-write the violent texts. Nullify them. Or get a religion that is cluttered.

The Torah minimizes troublesome texts (from the Law of Moses) to the point of them not being able to be carried out. They are not repudiated, but rendered harmless.

The texts dealing with Israel and its enemies are as I sadi before, "descriptive", in htat they tell the story of what happened, as opposed to the Qur'an and Hadiths that give a blueprint on how to handle the non-Muslim world, through an array of poltical means and methods.

There is a very big difference in the way Muslims understand their holy texts from that of Jews and Christians .

One is an open ended call for a continual war against the non-Muslim till they submit to Islam, or subjected to the second class status of a dhimmi, (which is another way of saying forced conversion)...or dead.

Re #30...last sentence add "not."

The call to prayer is supposed to be done without artificial amplification. The noise of it was defeaning in Istanbul. What a aggressive nuisance! By comparison church bells are so peaceful and reassuring.

The call to prayer will be 9 times softer than the church bells. the call to prayer will be barely audible for a guy walking right next to the mosque. it is a symbolic thing.

Of course that is exactly your point : you Islamaphobes are so hateful of Islam, that you want all symbols completely away. You remind me of exacly what you profess against. You remind me of all the hate that you claim Muslims have for non-Muslims. You are showing the same hate for the Muslim community in America.

Muslims in America want to live in peace with everyone. We love our religion and love America. When we hear all the hate that you have for us, we want to call outlound : WHY DO THEY HATE US!!!!

I dont much care for your philosophical arguments about text. All I know is that, as I grow up all my life in this beautiful city of Boston, and I have been to most of the mosques in this area, I NEVER HEARED any Imam or anyone lecturing about the merits of hating non-Muslims. In fact, just reading your posts, there is so much more hate than I have been exposed to in decades of living and hearing from Muslim sources.

I am not saying that Muslims are perfect. God knows we have our share or animals. But I am saying that with your hate mongering, you are bent on showing the worst of Muslims and the best of your own. This is so wrong.

I would much rather deal with people who acknowledge the wrong head on, and prefer to build good relations with everyone.

If I had my say, I would throw you in Gitmo with all the other hate mongers there. It is views like yours that got the Jews killed in Germany. Your views are the ones that are bent on making America a monster, rather than a tolerant diverse country. Shame on you!

#31 is absolutely correct!!!

Jamila. Many Muslims in the Muslim world are objecting to amplified calls to prayer. Since it's a symbolic thing according to you, then it will be done quietly. Few churches ring bells often, except on Sundays. Why? Because we have watches and the service hours are posted for everybody, visitors and members.

I am sure You have never heard an Imam preach hate agains non-Muslims, but many do. Do you read? I know and know many INDIVIDUAL Muslims who are open-minded, repudiate violence and are modern persons who value tradition. They, privately have rendered such texts null by referring them to conditions in a PAST time.

I, as a Christian, have tried to point out in various ways exactly what #31 has pointed out about rendering troublesome texts harmless (like, dash their babies' heads against the rocks from a Psalm). What real Jew or Christian do that?

You should read it #31 and the others.. It's what most people are asking Muslims. Have you rendered harmless the troublesome texts in your holy book which calls for violence against others? They are there. Almost all Jews and Christians have done so.

As for hatred. Your last paragraph is exactly what we are talking about and afraid of...you are hyperdefensive about any criticism of your religion and and will resort to your old ways. LOOK AT THOSE TEXTS!!!!!!! Spread the faith by the sword, all non-Muslims are second class persons. This is not peace, this domination.

The Christian religions have looked themselves in the face and CONFESSED TO THEIR COMPLICITY IN HORROR AGAINST OTHER PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY AGAINST THE PEOPLE OF THE MOTHER RELIGION, JUDAISM. They and the Jews have identified the causes and roots of this despicable attitude and behavior to others. HAS ISLAM DONE THE SAME IN ORDER TO PREVENT IT'S SACRED BOOK FROM BECOMING THE SOURCE OF AGGRESSION, OPPRESSION AND VIOLENCE AGAINST NON-MUSLIMS?

IT'S UP TO YOU TO PROVIDE THE ANSWER

Can you understand what we are saying?

Jamila want to know why : 'do they hate us." Except for a small percentage, I believe the right words are suspicion, mistrust and resentment.

When the Muslims invaded the Eastern roman Empire in 635-6 AD the Christians and Jew did not know about their religion. After some familiarty Jews thought Islam was a Jewish heresy and the Christians thoughts they were Arians or Docetists. Arians believed that Jesus was a creature of God and not co-eternal and Docetists beleived that it only seemed tbe Jesus on the cross, but it was someone else. As matters evolved the adherents of the 2 older religions were suprised to learn that Muslims considered their books to be faulty, while Muslims considered their rendition to be the correct version of the religion of Abraham, even though nobody can really sure what Abraham who lived about 3,700 acutally believed in detail. Jews and Christians read the Quran and said was the Muslims who changed the stories and try to devalue their religion. the Muslims knew about some of the books of the Jews and Chrisitans, but not all of them. Islam looked ike sometthing put together from hearing slected parts of the books rather than reading the books. This transmission of Judaeo-Christian religions had been going on for a long time. The Greek church historian Sozemen in Syria in the 5th century relates a story of an Arab tribe living east of Damascus who identified their high God Al-lah with the God of Abraham.

The Quran shows clear evidence of evolution and change. The first version of the religion was closer to Christianity than it is now, since Mohamed's first teachers were Christians.

The Muslims tried to claim the prophets and teachers of the Jews and Christians for themselves saying they were al Muslims. It looked like religions theft. Try to imagine how a Jew feels about being told by Christians and Muslims that they got it wrong.

The Muslims claimed they replaced the othe two religions, which had some of the truth, but not all of it. This is called an authority claim. It's an attempt to invalidate. It's an attempt to grab someone else' turf.

Judaism and Christianity are sister religions. The latter was founded by Jews within Judaism as a movement and later expelled. The response was to claim that the New Israel replaced the Old Israel. Islam is a cousin religion of the other two. It was not founded by Jews or Christians, but took its m ajor stories and precepts from the other two and refashioned them to suit its own purposes, the main being to deny the divinity of Christ and to get him down to the level of prophet. If Islam had not done that, there would be no need for Islam. For the record Jesus starts off in the Gospel of Mark as the Messiah and eventully becomes prophet, high priest, king and God Incarnate.in the Gospel of John. Any educated Christian knows this and will admit to this evolution. He or she will state that it took a while for the Jesus followers to come to the realization of this. It's called from Jesus to the Christ. This is intellectual honesty.

So, when a Muslim comes along and claims that the other two religions got it wrong, what would he expect, a kiss on each cheek? the best one can hope for is some mutual undestanding and tolerance and a lessening of the hostility by the giving of claims to sole possession of the Truth. Until this happens there will be continuing problems. For the record the late Pope John Paul II and the current Pope have stated emphatically that only Catholics will receive the fullness of salvation and the beatific vision of God. The rest of us have to stay in the waiting room.

You see what unprovable claims lead to?

The above comments made me reflect on a few under-quoted Prophetic statements that I hope someone else may find beneficial as well...
Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman said, "People used to ask the Prophet (S) about good things, but I used to ask him about bad things because I was afraid that they might overtake me. I said, 'O Messenger of God, we were lost in ignorance (Jahiliyyah) and evil, then God brought this good (Islam). Will some evil come after this good thing?' He said, 'Yes'. I asked, 'And will some good come after that evil?' He said, 'Yes, but it will be tainted with some evil.' I asked, 'How will it be tainted?' He said, 'There will be some people who will lead others on a path different from mine. You will see good and bad in them.' I asked, 'Will some evil come after that good?' He said, 'Some people will be standing and calling at the gates of Hell; whoever responds to their call, they will throw him into the Fire.' I said, 'O Messenger of God, describe them for us.' He said, 'They will be from our own people, and will speak our language.' I asked, 'What do you advise me to do if I should live to see that?' He said, 'Stick to the main body (Jamah) of the Muslims and their leader (Imam).' I asked, 'What if there is no main body and no leader?' He said, 'Isolate yourself from all of these sects even if you have to eat the roots of the trees until death overcomes you while you are in that state."

Ahban bin Saifi has narrated that the Prophet (pbuh) has said:
"Very shortly some differences and disputes are going to arise. When you come upon such a time break your sowrd and hold in your hand a wooden sword and sit quietly in your house, lest some mischievous hand or calamity should fall upon you."

"No doubt trials and disorders will soon occur. A man lying during the period of these disorders will be better than the man sitting and the man sitting will be better than the man standing; the man standing will be better than the man running. Then listen! when these trials and disorders begin to descend, then he who possesses camels should take refuge with his camel. He who has cattle, should take refuge with his cattle; he who has land should take refuge with his land; he who has nothing should turn his attention to his sword and strike it against stone. He should try to seek security and shelter as best as possible."

I can't believe this! I am now voting for doing away with the State Income Tax since so much State money goes to Boston and they can afford to give away land!