Diocese: Priest wrong about Obama voters

Finally, some reasoning from the Church. One tiny step in the right direction.

Sometimes we need not shoot from the hip!

The basis of this argument is silly. An imaginary sky fairy (god), who is all powerful yet unable to influence current events, is going to be upset with our election. One hundred years from now, our ancestors will look back at us and patronizingly proclaim our quaintness.

@svaughn123: You'd be surprised how often the church is NOT full of wackos. Unfortunately, the ding-dongs tend to ring the bell the loudest.

A reading of the "social issues" section of the United Methodist Book of Discipline actually reads like about half of the platform for the Democratic Party.

After being a Southern Baptist all of my life, you have no idea how wonderful it is to be a part of a group of believers that I can be proud of. You'll never hear a UM on TV begging for money and telling people how to vote, think, etc.

Please publish a picture of Monsignor Laughlin. I would like to frame it and hang it on the wall of my office. He's my new hero.

To repeat:

"Christ gives us freedom to explore our own conscience and to make our own decisions while adhering to the law of God and the teachings of the faith. "

Mark - you are an arrogant fool. You can't even guarentee your next breath but you mock the existence of God. Perhaps it is you who will one day look back on your ignorance and regret your blindness to the reality of God. Just because God gives us the freedom to make our own decisions doesn't mean He can't influence curernt events. We will one day be called to justify our actions and decisions - including voting for a candidate who thinks abortion is good thing. Fool.

All religions are Fairy Tales

Mark,

You atheists/agnostics have for hundreds of years, epscially after Nietzsche a century ago, have been proclaiming the death of God, but you have been spectacularly wrong so far. Yes, while atheism is at a high in Western Europe, although not among Muslims, which is why that area is increasingly being known as Eurabia, and on the left and northeast coasts of the United States, religion is alive and well in the rest of the US, Latin America, Asia, Africa, etc, But you are omniscient, so you think you know how the story turns out. At minimum, you should learn more about religion to have a minimal sense of how virtually the whole of previous humans believed, and most still do. But no, you're too smart, urbane, sophisticated, cosmopolitan to lower your nose to try to understand what those sub-human peons think/believe.

What is more likely is that 100 years from now, they'll be teaching the kids in a class room about the end of the enlightenment/modernist period, when a tiny but influential minority who controlled certain high spots in the apparatus of the culture enjoyed a period of favor, but was eventually debunked by the majority of the culture when the sterility of their arguments and culture became obvious.

Um, hey Kiernan: let me let you in on a little secret here:
Both candidates were pro-choice. Only Caribou Barbie was outspoken on the matter of abortion.
Personally, I think George Carlin had it right:
"if the Church wants to weigh in on politics and policy--Let 'em pay taxes like the rest of us".
Wassa Matta? The Sky Fairy can't afford it? Sell off a few of those cathedrals and paintings, compensate the victims of all of the Priest scandals and tend the flocks..

There is not enough separation between Church and State.

God's a joke, and anyone who believes in him, I got a bride to sell you. Idiots.

only a fool believes in an invisible man... stay off the medications and you'll see reality more clearly.

Mark: I guess it's all been cleared up. You are apparently a fool because you do not believe in the imaginary sky fairy. What were you thinking! ... Only one hundred years 'til humanity looks back on the predominance of superstition with quaint amusement? Boy, you're optimistic.

It's encouraging to see that some religious figures are graciously allowing their parishoners a dollop of free will.

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent from each other. The term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secularity of government and freedom of religious exercise.

Exactly how do you know what "God" is thinking? Your sort of ignorance and arrogance is typical of the extreme element in all religions. You are fundamentally equivalent to the Jihadist who pass violent judgement on those who manage to annoy them. Your need to have a word with yourself.

I still stand by Fr. Newman's decision. While we are free to use judgement, there is no doubt that Obama's stance on abortion and embryonic cell research does not adhere to the laws of God or the teachings of the Church. Even if in good conscience one believes he was the best choice, this discrepancy is just too big to justify under the current political conditions. A request to seek God's forgiveness is not too much to ask.

Respect for life = anti-abortion, anti-capital punishment, anti-war, anti-torture.
Still we kill our babies, we kill our prisoners, we kill our fellow man, we torture.

Abortion rights supporters need to examine their beliefs in light of the facts.

The fact is that a fetus IS a human being. It has human DNA that is different and unique from its mother.
It has its own gender, which is determined at conception. If a woman is pregnant with a boy- the baby boy has a penis. The woman does not have a penis, it is a seperate living being.
By 6 weeks- the time most women realize they are pregnant a fetus has a heartbeat, and electrical activity in the brain.
What evidence is there that a fetus is not a human being? I have yet to see any.

Future generation will look at those who support the "right" to have an abortion the way we look at those who supported the "right" to own a slave.

is all this name calling necessary? If someone has faith good for him/her. If someone doesn't, good for him/her.

gaudete,

Your smug attempts to belittle Mark's opinions regarding religion just reinforce what many of us already believe about people like you. You're pathetic.

eastiegirl,

"The laws of God or the teachings of the Church" ? Believe what you want, but public policy is not made based upon religious beliefs.

Um hey PCT - McCain was the lesser of two evils regarding abortion. Obama was the most pro-abortion Senator in DC. And regarding Carlin - he was a funny guy, but if the litmus test (is that too big a word for you?) is paying taxes - then about 50% of the population wouild have no say because they pay NOTHING in taxes. I also wonder if Carlin is in a hot place now. And regarding the Priest scandals - the Church is paying for it unlike the public schools which have a far higher percentage of child abuse cases than the Catholic Church. The Globe will never investigate that because the teacher's unions are another liberal sacred cow.

Gaudete,
It's the west coast, not the left coast. That comment is about as funny as someone calling Cambridge the "peoples republic" and laughing out loud like they thought of it.

Everyone else, as an agnostic myself, it's not necessary to mock peoples beliefs. Religion can be tremendously helpful to people at times, and as the priest says, it is your conscience to consider. If you don't wish the religious to push their views on you, I recommend you stop pushing your views on them.

In other words, live your own life and let me live mine...everyone.

Obama is an ABORTIONIST. He would rather destroy life than preserve it. If you are Catholic and voted for this modern day Hitler are are damned in the eyes of God. Plain and simple.

"Believe what you want, but public policy is not made based upon religious beliefs. Posted by JL "

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Almost ALL public policy is based is based on religious beliefs.

Mark,
While you don't think much of religion, you seem quite sure about reincarnation! How else can you suggest that your "ancestors" will be alive one hundred years from now? I've got news for you. Your ancestors are already dead! Even the fairy-believers know that, and I don't need to wait a hundred years for my DESCENDANTS to prove it.

Really, does anyone really care what anyone from this organized Pedophile-ring says about anything?

I don't get it. I keep hearing about the "Word of God". Yet it's always only the word of MAN that it's the "Word of God". Why would god, if he exists, trust men to disseminate his "word" when the first two people he created couldn't even be trusted?

Hunter: The Creator mentioned in the Declaration of Independence does not necessarily refer to God. Otherwise, they would have used the word "God". The Creator could also be Nature.

It wouldn't hurt if all the lawmaker use the Bible from time to time.

I love how the pro-life stance only applies only to the unborn, not to the thousands of troops and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis dying in a war based on lies. Sadam and his sons deserved death, for sure, but many in his army had the choice to die by him or have the chance to live by fighting, which is no choice at all.

For those that think that McCain truly represents pro-life, you need to take off the blinders and start to think for yourself. I know that it's scary to think that you'll need to make decisions for yourself, instead of having them handed to you by a guy in a robe, but only then will you realize your hipocracy.

too many people in the world already anyway. i don't understand why the church is pro life when we can't even take care of and feed the people we've got here on earth. a fetus that can't survive outside of the womb independently of the mother is not a fully functional being in my opinion. i wouldn't support extremely late term abortions unless the mother's life is in danger.

To its credit, the Catholic Church is consistent to the extent that it appreciates a pro-life position must necessarily include opposition to the death penalty and unjust war.

However should the Curia start playing the Excommunication card, American Catholics would be well advised to accept the Act of Supremacy of 1543 and join the Anglican Communion. They will have all the smells and bells they could possibly desire, plus married clergy they can trust their kids with.

Kiernman the Globe has been attacking public schools and teachers unions for years. Many of their education opinion pieces are written by the Pioneer Institute! Do not let the facts get in the way of a good argument. As for you wild abuse public schools claim where do you get you facts?

any way I have no respect for catholic religion ,the only thing they do molesting kids .

Three Cheers for Msgr. Martin Laughlin. How refreshing to hear some authoritative teaching and clarity from the official voice of the Diocese of Charleston in this timely fashion. The Catholic Catechism says it perfectly and is excellent for questions of faith and morals.

I love the atheists calling believers idiots and fools - NEVER forget that long after we all are worm food, the church will still be here to laugh at the words of these fools.

To paraphrase: The death of religion is always being greatly re-exagerated by every generation.

There were a number of Bishops who spoke out on this very subject and stated that abortion is one of the "intrinsic evils" and that as a Catholic one can never vote for a candidate or a platform which supports abortion!! Period!! Without life all other issues cease to exist, end of discussion, as they stated. Several of these Bishops also stated that to support such a candidate was condoning and furthering the sin of Abortion as long as that candidate was in office! Therefore anyone who votes for such a candidate or platform may not present themselves to receive the Eucharist before receiving Penance.

I believe Mark meant "descendants," not "ancestors." Probably just a typo.

I cannot believe all these hateful comments against the Church and religion in general.Either these people that write this diatribe are just plain morons or they border on agnosticism----- maybe its a little of both.

Do you suppose the priests that raped those boys received communion after their awful acts...I'm sure they did. Give me a break. After being brought up in a Catholic school for 12 years...Give me a break. I will never go to church again.....

The pro-life stance doesn't apply only to the unborn, but should impact a person's views on euthanasia, the death penalty, war, health care, etc. However, abortion is the only pro-life issue that is NOT open to debate. A war might be justified if it were fought in self defense or to save the lives of even more people than would die in the fighting. Unless it is absolutely necessary in order to SAVE the life of the mother, there is no justification for abortion. An unborn child is a human being and is alive and I have never heard a decent argument to the contrary. (If anyone has one I'd be very interested to hear it).

You say that Sadam's army had "no choice at all", but they have a heck of a lot more choice than a fetus going through an abortion. Despite the limitations on their freedoms, the members of the army made some choices to end up there, and they at least HAVE that chance to fight for their lives. Not so for a fetus. That's why it's so rediculous that the abortion issue is called the "CHOICE" issue. The unborn child has absolutely NO choice in the decision over its own life or death.

And if you want to talk about numbers, since the start of the Iraq war, thousands of american soldiers have died, hundreds of thousands of iraqis have died, and about 7.5 million unborn children have died through abortion in the US alone.

Personally, I do not agree with the death penalty, I am beyond EXTREMELY wary of euthanasia, I believe that all people should have health care, and I hate this war and hope it ends as soon as is safely possible. I do not think McCain truly represents pro-life. But Obama is the most pro-choice politician out there, and in light of the huge number of abortions already occurring each year and the fact that he has promised to to pass the FOCA which will only increase that number, I could not vote for him.

Also, I am Catholic, I do think for myself, and it's not all that scary. I'm handling it just fine. And to MrN, your comment is extremely ignorant and hateful. The sexual abuse within the Catholic Church was horrible, unjust and made me very angry, but it involved a small percetage of priests and it is very unfair to the vast majority of good priests to make comments such as yours.

I'm glad nobody even attempted to refute my facts about life that I stated earlier today.

Choose life, your mother did.

I find it odd and unhealthy that religion has such a heavy hand in politics. God was created out of fear.

What's amazing to me is that on both sides of this argument no one really understands 1 or 2 Corinthians and the sacrament of communion, and that there are (gasp!) rules that one has to follow if you believe this stuff.

According to the Bible, the priest was right and people who voted for Obama do need to repent for supporting his blatant disregard for human life.

However now that the Catholic church has thrown their spokesperson under the bus, we're back to normalcy.

The thing that many people are missing is that a vote for pro-choice is not a vote pro-abortion. God gave us the right to make our own decisions. Why is it that so many of us want to take that right away?

I am anti-abortion, but pro-choice. It's not my call to inflict my own religious beliefs onto others.

Joe Public:

On a fertilized egg being a person:

> It has its own gender, which is determined at conception.

So does a sperm cell; the X or Y chromosome it carries
determines gender.

> It has human DNA that is different and unique from its mother.
> If a woman is pregnant with a boy- the baby boy has a penis.
> The woman does not have a penis, it is a seperate living being.

You have mitochondria inside you; they come from your mother only.
You have bacteria inside you; they have very different DNA than you.

>By 6 weeks- the time most women realize they are pregnant a fetus has
>a heartbeat, and electrical activity in the brain.

Not true. See
http://tigtogblog.blogspot.com/2006/05/fetal-brain-development-myths-and.html
Electrical activity begins around 20 weeks, about the time a fetus is
viable.

A majority of people in the US support the ability to have an abortion
in the first trimester. In that time, the fetus is not viable on its
own. In fact, until week 12, it still has tail and is 3cm long.
Most people in the US are comfortable allowing women to choose to
abort such a fetus.

You may call a 6-week "a human person" if you choose. But recognize that is
your own opinion, not something that can be supported scientifically.

Felix:
You say "I am anti-abortion, but pro-choice. It's not my call to inflict my own religious beliefs onto others".

I have never understood this view. This was John Kerry's deal too, if I remember correctly. You are anti-abortion, which means you think it's wrong. This means that you think the unborn fetus is a human being, otherwise why would it be wrong to dispose of it? So if you think the unborn are human beings, why would you be ok with other people killing them? Would you say that you are anti-patricide for yourself, but that it's ok for others to kill their parents if they choose to do so? Probably not. From a purely biological perspective, it's clear that the unborn are human and that they are alive. Apparently, you recognize this. We have a law, a secular law, against murder in this country. It's not a religious issue.

The cannibals who want to eat Jesus-meat and drink his blood are grotesquery at it's most base, and vile.

The fact that they sit in their million dollar cathedrals while people in the world die of hunger, that they drink blood out of encrusted gold chalices when people can't get fresh water, that they hire lawyers to fight against those children they were responsible for protecting...

Anyone who stands by the church has blood on their hands. They do nothing when they could be helping. They are cowards who didn't force the church to solve the problem. They hide behind the flag of percentages.

Is one child raped ok? Is two? What is the magic number that they pretend makes it ok? Oh I'm sure some were "angry" and they sat in their pews and maybe witheld a buck or two and sang an hymn while irritated. And were content.

Morality doesn't need some guy who has withdrawn from the interaction of real human beings to decide what is just and unjust.

It's good this evil edit was retracted because I, for one, was screaming to get the tax exmpt status of this church repealed - and this is coming from someone who also does not believe in abortion unless the mother's life is endangered. However, I am a firm believer in the separation of church and state, and the church has no right to impose its beliefs on others.

the church has EVERY RIGHT to "impose" it's beliefs on those who profess to share the same beliefs/faith

Augustine, #23 Obama a "modern day Hitler"? Wow! Damned plain and simple? Religious extremism is alive and well in the USA. GOD IS LOVE and many of you seem to be severely lacking in it.

Once again, the Catholic church is wrong. This priest is a Christian. The Church is not.. No Christian, Catholic or Protestant, can support abortion in any form. Mr. Obama, by the way, is not Christian, either, though he may think he is. And ladylib, whoever you are, the Church does not "impose its beliefs on others," though it has an absolute right and even an obligation to do so on its own members. Christians accept the truths which the Church offers. And I agree, that can be difficult. Ladylib, scream for righteousness, not separation of church and state.

Catholics who voted for Obama should beg for excommunication. And you can take that to the bank.

All I said after I found out Obama was elected President was and I quote" God help this Country".And now I will add to that statement--May God have mercy on us all.

There's more to the story. A diocesan spokesman was quoted on Nov. 14 in the local South Carolina paper saying Msgr Laughlin was SUPPORTIVE of Fr. Newman. http://www.thestate.com/local/story/589290.html

This Catholic blog reports that the same Msgr. Lauglin sent a private email supportive of the letter to Fr. Newman just 2 days before the public controversy hit the media
http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otr.cfm

What a bunch of hypocrites crying for 'excommunication for Obama voters'. John McLame was pro-war and pro-capital punishment. He even went further to suggest a possible war with Iran. Isn't that just as anti-life as abortion? Of course it is. These smarmy Pharisees need professional help.

Being raised Catholic I can attest that it is not a heart felt religion and it is full of hypocrisy as well are dark secrets/money. People have the right to choose for themselves and only God can judge as seen fit at the end of their lifetime.

"In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us, and sent His Son to be the satisfaction for our sins."

~John 4:19~

I do hope that all of these good Republicans, who stand by Father Newman, also go to confession because according to the Republican Party Platform, the Republican Party supports a culture of death just as vehemently as the Democratic Party. Just a different one.

Remember Pro Life is from conception to natural death. Anyone who is Pro Life supports the whole picture and abhors any form of murder. Be it Abortion, Assisted suicide, Mercy Killing or Death Penalty.

Before you condemn any make sure you are willing to protest all forms your self.

@Mark: you do have one thing wrong: it is our descendants, not our ancestors.

@Kieman (and anyone else who thinks along these lines): Do you HONESTLY think that you are judged by the thoughts and actions of people you have no control over? Then does your God condemn you for living on the same street with a homosexual couple? Or for working with a Buddhist – will you be so judged by your God because you know or associate with these people even though you have no control over them? You’re saying that your God holds you personally responsible for the failings of others and you will be condemned because you happen to vote for a person who holds a different belief than your own religion. What would be the next step? Beating or killing the Buddhist co-worker so that your God will approve of your attempt to control what you have no control over? Whatever happened to “judge not lest you be judged” Whatever happened to the teachings of Jesus? Or are these things that you only apply to certain aspects of your life because applying, say, Jesus’s teachings to someone like Obama goes against your own personal distate?

all you losers who are for abortions, i wish someone would put a forcep to mouth and pull until your moronic heads come off!

Augustine is one hell of a scary religion fanatic:

"Obama is an ABORTIONIST. He would rather destroy life than preserve it. If you are Catholic and voted for this modern day Hitler are are damned in the eyes of God. Plain and simple."

can we be serious? modern day hitler? he would rather destroy life than preserve it? yeah - i'm sure obama condemns childbirth. i'm sure he is absolutely against the procreation of humankind.

with the possible exception of MAYBE a miniscule number of (sick) people, i'm pretty sure that NO one is "pro-abortion" or an "ABORTIONIST". the term is "pro-CHOICE". people support the woman's right to CHOOSE.

and as a sidenote, i can honestly say that i have never heard of a single case of pro-choice supporters picketing outside of a maternity ward.

Bible = Hypocrisy, lies, hate and nothing more. The bible clearly states that it is ok to own slaves, beat your wife etc.... In my lifetime, I have clearly seen religious warfare ranging from terrorist acts in the US, Middle East, UK, Ireland and Asia, all in the name of some idiot's god. I have seen the beloved catholic church condone and cover up pedophilia. And they are so lowly, that they used 9/11 as a distraction to get their guy, LAW out to Rome so he could not be persecuted. They claim not to condone homosexuality, but dress like Liberace. Any other "man" walking down the street in a dress would be mocked and insulted. Religion, in every form is disgusting, and a pathetic way to justify racism and hate. And dont even try coming back to me with any of your outdated "scriptures". Keep your bs to yourselves. You have tried shoving it down people's throats for centuries, and all it causes is war, terror, hate, and fear. Take a look at your beloved church's Inquisition. How about that? Is the world round now? Or am I going to burn in eternal hellfire for saying that it IS Round? And what excuse can you provide me that thinking it was flat was a mistake even though it was proven that it was round in 240BC by Eratosthenes. Meanwhile, in 1478, the catholics start killing people for believing the planet is round. Come on. Stop with the fairy tales! Is Santa coming for you this christmas season?

War is not a mortal sin; there is a Catholic just war doctrine.
Capital punishment is not a mortal sin; the Church has traditionally supported capital punishment as society's right of self defense.
Abortion IS a mortal sin. Why don't those of you who voted for this monster (and you know who you are) just admit that you have no objective code of morality, just a tissue of self-justifications for whatever acts are demanded of you by your depraved pleasures and appetites?