Christian leaders speak out on Gaza

I think the United States should go away and let these war in parties fight. Who would think Israel and Hamas would let the last days of the Bush administration go without whining about Hamas? Peace is laughable in the mid east when you have this mind set.

Blah blah blah

blah blah bah blah

sames thing over and over for the last 50 years

What is happening in Gaza is a disgrace, an injustice, and a stain on the world. Israeli Jews are building a palestinian holocaust in Gaza with the approval ot the US and UN. Israel is not fighting a war with Hamas, Israel is slaughtering hundreds of Palestinians under the guise of defending itself. Hamas is an organization and no organization can fight off a military of a state, especially the 4th most powerful military in the world. Israel has airplanes, bulldozers, tanks, and the most sophiscated weapons available. Hamas is a self made military with no airplanes, tanks, bulldozers, or sophiscated weapons. Israel's war with Hamas is one-sided and comparable to adults killing very young children. There is no war, only the slaughter of helpless, innocent Palestinians. That's called Genocide!!

The one who starts the fight has no right to say when the fight is over. Only the victor.

Let me ask all you doves, where are you when Hamas attacks Israel without provocation? Do you deem it okay since only x number is murdered without mercy? Or, do you deem it okay that they were murdered using homemade bombs, guns & knives. Not, rockets, tanks and other artillery? It's interesting I never hear your voices until Israel decides to respond.

Marvanetta, ever since Israel withdrew from Gaza years ago in a bid for peace, Palestinian terrorists have been launching missiles into Israel, with the sole aim of killing civilians. No other nation on earth would have tolerated this for as long as Israel. No other nation would have been asked to. Where is your sympathy for the Israelis? The responsibility for the current violence lies with the Palestinians, and with Europe and the UN, who coddle Hamas and ignore its escalations, who sit mute while missiles are launched at civilians, who raise their voices only after Israel responds.

Israel has every right to defend herself - not one American citizen would put up with having rockets continually land on their home without expecting our government and military to put a prompt and decisive end to it.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, and the Gazans who provoked Israel's response are essentially lobbing rockets right out of their front yards with the full knowledge that their own women and children will be killed with the expected retaliation. This is simply more Islamic extremist violence - only this time, it's a big version of "suicide by cop."

Thank God, there are people with sense of humnaity in the world lik Marvenetta (thanks for your posting). FredN, your questions are laughable. Shame on you for flipping the facts. The Zionist are and have always been the agressors. Your accusing the Palistinians for defending there very sense of dignity after they have been stripped of every right to exist. Blockades, Embargo, Starvation and Collective punishment tactics that amount to being at least a Genocide and at worst a Holocaust. The Zionist bring every Tom, Dick and Harry to Palistine from every corner of the earth, plant them next door to Palistinians across the land and arm them to harras the locals and steet their land and properties and call that self defense... History book should be read from the begining and not every other page... By they way, don't give this non-sense argument that the land has been promised to the Jews, because this is the most stinky BS I ever heard... and from biblical stand point, it does not stand...

Palestinians and Arabs in general believe in a double standard. They believe it is okay for Hamas to fire rockets into Israel and kill innocent Israeli civilians, but when the Israelis finally respond with force, Arabs whine about the innocent civilians that are being killed in Gaza. You cannot have it both ways. In any case, the Israelis at least gave these "civilians" advance notice to move away from Hamas targets; not that the world press is giving them any credit for the act. Remember, if you support those who would destroy Israel, you really have no right to cry about the fact that Israel chooses to defend itself.

To FredN. "Let me ask all you doves, where are you when Hamas attacks Israel without provocation?". Let me tell you this: Where have you been when Israel created itself and occupied lands of others for decades with force, destroying their houses, killing their people and asking them to recognize them without feeling the obligation themselves to recoginze "Palestinians"? Imagine yourself being occupied and treated that badly for more than 60 years. Have you ever experienced that feeling? Please, stop your "Israel defends itself" rhetoric and get to understand the difference between "attacking" and "defending".

This blog and this "writer" are a joke. Posting messages by "different" groups is why there is a problem in the first place. All these groups are fabricated, man made, socially constructed entities. We're all people and this problem won't EVER be resolved until we start seeing each other that way and as one......not separate. Your blog only helps to separate all of us.

Is Israel ever to blame? It is pathetic.

Grant the Palestinians an independent nation of their own. It doesn't matter where it is - Gaza.. West bank. They can create a constitution, select leadership, build an army - anything they see fit to do with wherever the get their revenue. Then when they attack another sovereign nation - the nation that is attacked can respond officially -like all other nations respond when attacked. See how fast the Palestinians come to the table then.

if you are foolish enough to bring a knife to a gunfight, no if you are foolish enough to start said fight, you get what you deserve. sorry Palestine, Hamas is bringing this violence on you, not Israel.

It is not only "interesting" that the anti-semitic left is so comparatively quiet when Israel is continuously attacked by the hate-groups surrounding it's borders, it's racist and utterly disgraceful. It should not be too suprising when those who masquerade as "peace advocates" and religious leaders take so little substantive action when it comes to the injustice that pervades the urban centers of our own country. Educational standards are lowered and teenagers are gunned down - and so-called "progressives" are oblivious as they seek to eradicate such innovative and (to them) "heretical" ideas as charter schools, vouchers and tax relief. Imagine if the Ku Klux Klan began lobbing bombs at towns and communities of the US because they did not like the ethnicity of the residents. The stark truth is that while we Americans may strive for communities that have "no place for hate" - Hamas seems to be the exception in the hearts of leftists.

I find it hard to feel sorry for the Arabs. They strap bombs to woman, children, and the mentally disabled. They deliberately attack woman and children and hide their rocket launchers and bomb factories in and around populated areas and Hospitals.
The fundamental difference between a Christian/Jewish warrior and an Arab terrorist is simple. When Christian and Jewish woman and children are threatened, the warriors charge ahead and fight to protect them giving their lives if needed. When Arab men are attacked after launching rockets at women and children, they crouch like dogs behind the children and cry like women.

CJ - do you really thing Michael Paulson is the cause of the middle east crisis?
That is like blaming the rooster for the sun coming up.
You live in a fantasy world. Come on back to reality.

Michael ,thanks for the best blog on Boston.com.

Sorry to tell you this Bishop Kate, but you are a prejudiced person. So what if Orthodox Jews participated in a protest rally? Is this your sad, sick way of deflecting criticism from yourself? This is basically the same as saying "some of best friends are Jewish " only you are saying "even some of the protesters were Jewish". So what? Maybe some of the protesters were Wiccans? That certainly doesn't make the protest or them (or Bishop Kate) right in any way. This is just a disgusting type of essentialism, and as someone who speaks for a religion, Bishop Kate should know that essentialist notions underpin all prejudices.

The Gazans had a chance to establish a Palestinian state and civil society in 2005, when Israel vacated Gaza. Instead, they responded by sending rockets continuously into Israel from civilian areas. Hamas knew that sooner or later Israel would get sick of it and defend its citizens (Jew and Arab alike) with an attack on Gaza. Hamas also knew that because they shoot from civilian areas, that Israel, no matter its efforts, would hit some civilians. They knew that the Europeans and much of the world would howl with indignation at Israel after remaining silent at Hamas' attacks. It has been a cynical ploy by Hamas that has only served to hurt those claim to want to help, the Palestinians. Perhaps those who condemn Israel would welcome living under the constant barrage from Gaza. That would be real support for Hamas. The Palestinians had (once again) their chance to create a state in 2005, but instead chose violence and hatred. Perhaps for once, they can be satisfied with one Palestinian state (Jordan) and the creation of a second Palestinian state (a future Palestine) and stop trying to destroy the one democracy in the region that has freedom of religion and speech.

Hamas leaders and their people are cowards! They hide among civilian schools and housing. They deserve what they get. How about the Saudis, Iranians, Syrians and Jordanians give them some of their land. Maybe Hamas can take over the Palm Islands in Dubai for their homeland!

Liberals knee jerk response: Bad Israeli's. Good Palestinians. If rockets starting being fired from Tijuana into San Diego, you can bet the response would be swift and strong. The Nazis terrorized London with the V2 rockets in a similar terrorist act. Did we not condemn that?

Why is it that Israelis (including Israeli Arabs) live in relative wealth whereas the Arabs in Gaza live in dire poverty. Could it be due to corruption?

sorry Bill, your bias is showing-- Gaza is a prison camp of 1.5 million people, without food, medicine, or hope, thanks to Israel. The Israeli reponse to the toy-like missles that Hamas occasionally launches at Israel (in which one person has been killed int he past six months, I believe) is entirely and horrifically genocidal in nature and way out of proportion. Apparently you think 300 Palestinians to 1 Israeli is a fair balance-- and it's so depressing and outrageous to see that so many around here agree with you.

The Israeli's should stop answering terrorist rocket attacks on their civilian population and cities with surgical attacks aimed at Hamas targets, and return rocket for rocket. Hamas targets civilian centers, Israel should do the same. Rockets are terror weapons, because no-one knows where they will come down, like the buzz-bombs and V2's Hitler rained down on London. The Palestinian people cheer when Hamas sends rockets to kill Israeli civilians, because they know Israel doesn't send rockets back, let's see if they still cheer when Israel sends rockets to kill THEIR families, they deserve no less. The whiners in the UN, etc. who never condemn Hamas, only Israel's attempts to protect themselves, are beneath contempt. Hamas is not freedom fighters or martyrs, just insatiable mad, murderous, cowardly dogs to be destroyed. Freedom fighters do not strap bombs on children, or murder men, women, children (including other Muslims) in stores and cafes.

lightnin

FredN...the fight was started over 50 yrs ago...you could say the western world started it by creating a home for the Jews in the Middle East when there was already peace in that part of the world...so perhaps it it the West that needs to take the blame.

isreal has the right to defend itself

I'm 55 years old & my attitude towards Israel/Palestine has been "wake me up when it's over" since 1967. Nothing but retaliation on retaliation. The Palestinians have never adopted the moral/political tools of civil disobedience, mass demonstrations, cultivating their own culture that Ghandi and Mandela used to shame the British/white South Africans & reveal them to the world as selfish oppressors. Despite its many achievements, Israel is an occupier and corrupts *itself* by the cruelties and indignities it imposes on the Palestinians in the name of security. Eventually, there will be far more Arabs than Jews in the occupired territories & Israel proper. The kind of over-retaliation Israel is conducting will only lead to more hatred, more bloodshed, and a garrison state with a permanent underclass of Arabs. I wish both sides better but for the undending future it'll only be scorpions in a bottle.

You see, the United States is occupied by the same people who occupy Palestine. That is why the news is always slanted in favor of Israel. I strongly believe that if Americans knew the truth, they'd all condemn Israel as a racist and terrorist state.

Give Palestine back to the Arabs, they are the rightful owners of the land. And give the US back to the Americans, while you're at it. Then maybe we can finally come together as one, all colors, all ethnicities, as one.

Israel withdrew the 'occupation' from Gaza in 2005.

Productive Arabs and Muslims should press Hamas to stop building/smuggling rockets to fire over the border fence and start caring for their people.

Israel can take care of itself and should abide by United Nations Security Council Resolution 242. This will never end until funds are cut off to Terrorist organizations and Israel is doing nothing about it.

Neither Iran, Hamas nor Hezbollah recognize Israel's right to exist. What are you going to do????

Every human being and country should have a right to exist but you can't negotiate with these people.

Lovely sentiments. Nevertheless, unilaterally ceasing the violence has never worked for Israel, who has been baited with rockets, taunted with refusal to extend the ceasefire and invited to wreak havoc by the failure of Hamas to heed fair and advance warning. Hamas wants this violence so that it can use its PR machine to plead with the world, as if it is the victim. But its not the victim. In deed, it is the instigator. The people of Gaza democratically chose this instigator as its leader. The people and the instigator must now pay the price for their choices. Unlike these good but unwise men of faith, I call upon Israel to push them all into the sea. Free your own land of the remnants of conquerers and occupiers, and rejoice in utter victory for all future times.

Congrats Israel; you played right into Hamas' hands.

Israel voluntarily withdrew from Gaza in 2005 - and Palestinians had control of the territory and could monitor their border. Did Israel get land for peace? No - Israel got rocket attacks virtually from day one. Did the Palestinians create a viable state although they had EVERYTHING necessary to do so? No - they created an internal civil war in which Hamas (not Israel) imprisoned the people of Gaza. Hamas and their gullible press allies then launched the usual propaganda campaign about lack of food/electricity i.e. a British 'activist' claimed Gaza was a 'concentration camp' until she was caught on camera shopping at a well stocked Gaza grocery store. No country but Israel would have waited so long to respond. No country but Israel is so reviled for self defense - and that more than anything continues the cycle of violence - because Hamas and the Palestinians know they can milk that 'world outcry' one-sided response to create more violence - and they do.

Michael, it might be interesting to check out exactly who the "orthodox Jews" Schori was referring to as protesting israeli policies. The coverage I saw indicated that Neturei Karta was in attendence at the rally. Are those the Jews she was referring to? NK is an anti-Zionist organization.

Everyone who thinks it is wrong to "Occupy" another peoples country, Get out of Boston, and Get out of North America, the Indians were here first. Sorry but this world is made for the last one standing and those that live by the sword will die by it. Or you could follow the example of Chist When he said my kingdom is not of this world then would my servants fight. He didnt come to liberate the Jews from the Romans neither did he condem the Romans for occupying. Let the Dead bury the Dead, you come follow Christ he will make you liberated From the occupation of the stronghold of sin in your life. Read your bible and obey what you read. Then read "The Kingdom that turned the world upside down"

It looks like Israel is using this strategy.

1. They promote chaos and disunity among the Palestinians.
2. When some "moderate" Palestinian leadership emerges, Israel gives them no significant concessions, and after a while they are compromissed in the eyes of their own people.
3. Eventually Palestiniants get tired with the moderates and follow more radical leaders.
4. At this point Israel starts killing the radical leaders and claims that it fights not against the Palestinian people, but against the extremists.
5. If somehow, miraculously peace holds for a few months, Israel is provoking some incident (rarely reported in the press) after which the Palestinians react, and then Israel retaliates in declared self-defense.
6. Israel can always create in incident (as for instance bombing a house and killing everybody inside, women and children inlcuded) claiming that they had some secret information about some terrorists hiding in some house and plotting to kill Israelis. After all, Mossad is the best intelligence service in the world. What people forget is that inteligence services are also expert in desinformation.

re: post #25.

There was coordinated, mass, disobedience and nonviolent protest during the first intifada (1987-1993). The response from the Rabin administration was violence, arbitrary detention and torture (the "iron fist" policy).

see for example:

King, Mary Elizabeth. A Quiet Revolution: The First Palestinian Intifada and Nonviolent Resistance. New York: Nation Books, 2007.

In A Quiet Revolution, renowned civil rights activist Mary Elizabeth King questions the prevailing wisdom that the first Palestinian Intifada was defined by violence. She argues that initially, the uprising was characterized by a massive nonviolent social mobilization, rooted in popular committees often steered by women. These committees adopted strategies that began to lead to political results — among them the beginnings of a negotiated settlement. King traces the tragic movement away from peaceful protest following the killing of four Palestinian laborers in Gaza, and charts the PLOs increasing contempt for nonviolent struggle. She details the complicity of the media in this escalation of violence — TV crews would not cover peaceful protests, but Palestinian boys throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers would attract foreign cameras. King draws upon the history of non-violent movements and argues that only through nonviolent strategies can a negotiated peace be achieved with Israel. King believes that the residual knowledge of the power of nonviolent resistance from the first Intifada will provide the bedrock upon which to build this eventual, lasting peace.

Amen John 3:16.

To Buscuitboy; It is funny how you blame Israel for blockading Gaza, what about Egypt? Egypt has refused for a year to open the Rafah border point between Egypt and Gaza until control of Gaza is returned to the Palestinian Authority. It seems the Egyptian government is concerned that Hamas violence could spread into Egypt otherwise.

Oh but wait - that would be Arabs mistreating Arabs, no story there huh?

I'm going to Israel soon to fight.
I've had enough talk.
We will destroy the foul al aska zit on the mount and rebuild the temple.
Eventually, we will raise the flag of Zion on the ruins of Mecca.
As David said, "is there not cause?"
Baruch Hashem,
Ben Adam

Katharine Jefferts Schori will bend to any relativistic social-moral gospel. She is leading the Episcopal church headlong into culture war oblivion and shaping the church to culture rather than culture to moral objectivity. I am Episcopalian, but I get upset every time she opens her mouth. There is no telling what new cozy pop culture morality is in store for our church. I would take whatever she says with a grain of salt.

Isreal needs to be more careful about women and children. I expect more from them. Ironic how the victim now becomes the dogged perp. Testament to evil. Sigh

There is no country on the face of the earth that would not defend itself from repeated attacks. Isreal has every right and indeed must send a mighty blow to Hamas. If the Palestinians wanted peace they would not have elected the terrorist group Hamas as their government. Hamas is the worst enemy the people in Gaza have. They are allowing these terrorist to use their children as targets to hide behind. It is impossible to understand how any person can possibly believe that Isreal is wrong to declare war on a people that have repeatidly attacked it. Hamas will not honor a cease fire..

It is getting closer and closer to the time when humans must look in the mirror and proclaim, "We tried to create our gods in our own image and we have only created god-monsters. In the name of these monsters, we are only interested in the suppression and the obliteration of ourselves, who created them. What have we done! Now, let us put all our god-creations aside, if we are able, and meet each other as humans, in the love that is inherently there."

Eli, you need to study the Bible before you make your comments. The only peace in the middle east , and the rest of the world, as a matter of fact, will be brought by the master of deception himself...satan. So look out for the anti-Christ, for I am afraid you'll be easily decieved. It's all leading to the end of times.

FredN, are you kidding me?
"Let me ask all you doves, where are you when Hamas attacks Israel without provocation? "

Whitout provocation? Seriously? The people of Gaza have been forced to live in the same conditions the Nazis forced the Jews to deal with inside the ghettos. You'd have to be blind not to see this, and crazy to think that this isn't provocation enough. Israel is performing its own sort of ethnic cleansing, and they're using the world's guilt and sympathy over the Holocaust against us - they think they can justify what's going on. Nobody wants to say that Israel is doing anything wrong, because they know they'll play the anti-semitic card. I, for one, am not anti-semitic; However, I do condemn what Israel is doing. It's disgusting. They threw the Palestinians (or whatever the correct term for them is now) out of their homes and their land and expect no retaliation for this? Israel needs to go back to the 1967 borders and pull out of Gaza and the West Bank. There's no need for the settlements there.

I AGREE WITH "yenoham". It is disturbing to me, to see how our own gov. backs Israel, no matter what. It reminds me of the attitudes of many Americans during the 60's when they would answer the protesters of the Viet Nam war w/ slogans like,"my country, right or wrong" or, "America, love it or leave it!".Israel is not always right! If the Palestinians elected Hamas,then their choice should be respected. There are many around the world who would argue that George Bush, & Dick Cheney & co., during their reign are also "terrorists". Let's look at the death toll today: over 900 Palestinians killed and @ 13 Israelis dead. Who is really behaving like terrorists?

Israel has the right to defend itself.

However, American citizens should have the same right to decide whether they support Israel. (Most of us do not.)

Marvenetta, I was thinking about what you said. Good analogy by the way. Children attaching adults. What could be more futile?
If a political faction in Mexico launched missles into Texas on a continuous basis, the US would bomb them to dust, then invade ect. So...............

Most Americans DO support Israel (post #45). The Gazans should work with Israel to get Hamas OUT of Gaza. Irsael will then retreat to it's agreed-upon border. As long as missles are lobbed into Israel by Hamas, Gaza will be a war zone. Anyone who does not see the inevitability of that is blind to the realities of this age.

Hamas attacks Israel without provocation? Please. How about Israel illegally occupying Palestinian, Lebanese, and Syrian land, and continuing to steal more land at this very instant? Does that alone (forgetting about Israeli air strikes, collective punishment, and total control of natural resources in the area) qualifiy as provocation? It certainly would if, say, Canada, imposed the same on, say, the upper-penninsula in Michigan. Damn right we'd call it provocation, and the U.S. would fire a lot more than the Roman Candles which the Palestinians can muster right down Canada's throat.. Post 38 is most useful in illuminating attitudes of those in control on the conflict.
Solution?
Three guys with Nextel phones could solve the proplem and everyone knows it.
Brleep: We have a problem, a bunch of people stole land from another group, a lot of it in 1967, and won't give it back.
Brleep: And the people whose land was stolen are mad as hell and shooting off fireworks in protest.
Brleep: Okay, do we have a map from 1967 showing the land?
Brleep: Yes.
Brleep: Do we have trucks and things to move the people out of the land that they stole?
Brleep: Yes.
Brleep: Will the people whose land was stolen stop firing Roman Candles if they get their land back?
Brleep: There's always a crazy in the bunch, but most say yes and will pursue normal relations if they get back only their land which was taken in 1967, and can have their own state to run their own lives.
Brleep: We also have gas for the trucks.
Brleep: Good. Start moving them out.
Brleep: Done.
(Time elapsed, 60 seconds)

I can tell this is the religion section because all of the posters choose a side and love violence.