Considering Islam and America after Bush

All I ever need to know about Islam I learned on September 11, 2001.

Mr. Nasr:

It is not the United States, but radical Islamists, who consistent try to make the case that the violence of Islamists toward the West (as well as the repression of moderate Muslims) is sourced in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, that Israel and the West are the only sources of that conflict — which doesn't, by the way, explain why the Palestinians have produced no other exportable product other than terrorism and no only internally consumable product other than radical TV programs that classify as child abuse. King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia constantly whines about "Palestinia" in explaining why the world is a mess; the Muslim Brotherhood invokes "Palestinia" in explaining its violence; Al-Zawahiri promises pure Muslim rule of "Palestinia" and "Andalucia" as the goal of a jihad that promises the ultimate pure-male, Pure-Islamic ego trip to vulnerable young men eager for sex without responsibility, rule without assent of the ruled, and debased violence without justice just anytime those emotions get a bit difficult to bear.

That the United States and the rest of the world think the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the linchpin with which the world's most dangerous problem (radical Islamism) is held together, it is not because we are so stupid, but because every bad guy on the planet has invoked it. And every despicable and worthless ruler — for which we are similarly blamed as convenient scapegoat for Muslims willing to spill some kuffir blood to save their own skins and then call the sacrifice "occupiers" as happened with the 25-year Shi'a lobby for a U.S. invasion of Iraq to remove Saddam — has invoked Palestinia as why Americans are REALLY to blame for their bloodlust and corruption.

Why don't you guys JUST FOR ONCE just tell the truth instead of pandering to Muslims who, as forensic psychiatrist Jerrold Post points out, suffer from a form of collective identity crisis that makes them forever unable to take responsibility for anything.

Disgusting pandering. Again.

That's like saying all you ever need to know about Christianity you learned from the Spanish Inquisition.

If all you know about Islam is what you learned on September 11, 2001, then you don't know Islam at all.

Don't confuse the acts of a radical sect of a religion with the entirety of the religion.

Mr. Nasr's comments are informative. Perhaps we are being fooled to a certain degree by the extent to which the Jews are made the bogeyman as the muslim world tries to coverup its own conflicts.

I find myself agreeing with Mr. Goldberg to a large degree. With regard to the terrorism of islamists, I suspect that the disapproving muslim majority is really a minority.

THere also seems to be a reluctance to be truthful about the islamic world. IT is largely backwardand lives in the 10th century. WHen we are forced by the muslim world to pick a side in the Israel-Palestinian conflict, there is no choice but to support modenrity and Israel versus backward heathens. When is the muslim world going to wake up and give itself a chance?

My attitude on 9/11 wasn't much different from Never Forget's. I, however, now realize if that assumption were true, a lot more of the world would be burning right now.

That said, I have to wonder why caricature cartoons in Denmark or a Miss World pageant in Nigeria inflames the passions of Muslims to the point of murder and mayhem, yet every time Islamists commit an atrocity like that in Mumbai, it is either excused away or blamed on the US or Israel, as Iran is doing now.

Terrorists do not operate in a vacuum. They operate with the support of failed or repressive theocratic states and the implied consent by silence of the 'peaceful majority.'

When I see Muslims demonstrating with the same fervor against Islamist terrorists as they do cartoons and beauty pageants, I will continue to believe they are looking for answers everywhere except where they should: in their own mirrors.

TheMadKing

Anyone who could say that "All I ever need to know about Islam I learned on September 11, 2001," is just being willfully ignorant and bigoted - it's just that simple. Whether you care for Islam as a religion is irrelevant. It is a major force in this world and should be known and understood by anyone seeking to live in the modern world. The problem with this discussion is that everyone here (including Goldberg and Nasr) equate Islam with the Middle East and Arabs. Most Muslims in this world are not in the Middle East nor are they Arabs (and many Arabs are not Muslim) Furthermore, they fail to separate what is Islam and what is culture. Much of what we equate with Islam is not Islam, but is Arabic/Middle Eastern culture and even many Muslims fail to make that distinction. As for the terrorism issue, the equating of terrorism with Islam is just foolishness and not supported by the facts. Prior to 9/11 the largest acts of terrorism in this country were committed by white, Christian males. We do not equate terrorism with whites, males or Christianity because we know enough about each to form intelligent opinions.

All my 60 years, I have seen 3 moslem. whatever you are seeing today under any relegion, is plitical gathering and they are using religious to cover their dirty action. Today's institutional religions are just a business to get money for living. Prophet Mohamad peace be upon hime said "You be you", where he told folow killers. Also he said everybody born with essense of god, people puts label to them. Religon is personal inner development.

Islam, what the readers need to know.
Islam is a religion that calls for the death or dominance of non-Muslims.
(Fliers 1&2)
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/09/attention-nyers-counter-islamic-subway_11.html
Interfaith dialogue with Muslims only benefits Islam.
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/09/interfaith-dialogue-what-is-it-good-for.html
The persecution of Christians has already started in the UK.
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/06/no-bible-zone-uk.html
Islam has been causing the same problems for centuries.
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/09/islam-big-misunderstanding.html
Muslims are voting terrorist groups into office across the Middle East.
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/05/its-only-fewthats-what-they-keep.html
Muslims look to impose Ramadan on US factory.
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/09/swift-plant-has-had-enough-and-fires.html
For more on the issue.
http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/

Anyone who says the Palestinian question is not central to all issues in the Middle East is fooling him- or her-self. I only feel sorry for those poor seekers of truth who are being tutored at insitutes of higher education by educators of the like of Vali Nasr who plainly wants to ingratiate himself by downgrade the centrality and importance of the Palestinian question. The bogus Sunni/Shia divide is being promoted by the enemies of Islam. I am sure Mr Nasr will now receive a pat on the back from Alan Dershowitz. Next, he will blame the Palestinians for their plight!

Isn't it relevant to the discussion about Islam that not a single one of the 57 Moslem countries subscribe to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? On the contrary, ALL of the Moslem countries subscribe to their own Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam which openly declares that Islam is superior to all other religions and social systems, and which clearly declares that the ONLY source of human rights is the Islamic sacred law, Sharia -- which, among other things, requires war against non-Moslems and the subordination of women.

Perhaps the greatest Moslem leader of the 20th Century, Ayatollah Khomeini had this to say about human rights: “What they call human rights is nothing but a collection of corrupt rules worked out by the Zionists to destroy all true religions.”

Ayatollah Moussave-Khomenehi said: "When we want to find out what is right and what is wrong we do not go to the United Nations; we go to the Holy Koran…”

Former Iranian president Ali Khamenei said: “When we want to find out what is right and what is wrong we do not go to the United Nations; we go to the Holy Koran. For us, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is nothing but a collection of mumbo-jumbo by disciples of Satan.”

Abul Maududi, perhaps the most widely read, respected and influential Islamic writer of the 20th Century, wrote: "When we speak of human rights in Islam, we mean those rights granted by God." (that is, the Sharia).

Muhammad Naceri, member of Morocco Council of Religious Scholars, wrote:" The Universal Declaration of Human Rights was for complete equality for man and women. For us, women are equal to men in law, but they are not the same as men, and they can’t be allowed to wander around freely in the streets like some kind of animal.”

Non-Moslems must realize that religious Moslems do NOT share our values even though they live among us. They are in our society, but they are not of it. Their rejection of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is the best and most conclusive proof of this.

Nancy , you could n,t have said it any better!

One word sums up "Islam and America": jihad. It is not an optional add-on to Islam, but an intergal ingredient. There are those who say that jihad means 'for the Muslim to struggle with him/herself against sin, to become a better Muslim,' but the later verses of the Qu'ran (which count more in Islam) concentrate on its violent conversion of the infidel (us.)

To bring up the Spanish Inquisition against 9/11 is moronic. First of all, the deaths of the Spanish inquisition were carried out by the Spanish government, not by the Catholic authorities, although they referred the names. More importanly, the Spanish inquisition was 800 years ago, 9/11 7 years ago, thus more relevant to the "after Bush" name of this article.

Mr. Abdul Ameer distilled the issue perfectly, and I thank him for doing so. As long as mainstream Muslims accept the doctrine that Sharia trumps human rights, then it will be at war with Western Civilization.

Unlike poster Never Forget, I didn't learn everything I needed to know about Islam on 9/11..... Rather, it was only AFTER 9/11 that I started reading about this ideology in an effort to find out the whys behind the hatred that inspired this dispicable act. I've found that, unlike the radical, white Christians that poster NancyG mentioned, radical Islamists almost universally refer to the core texts of Islam to justify and exhort violence against women, Jews and unbelievers. The Koran, Haddith and Sunnah are repleat with verses that call for the faithfull to kill in the name of Islam. The problem is that any "moderate" that attempts to actively reject these verses as calls to viloence in today's world are immediately branded as "infidels" themselves and subject to persecution by the radical minority; hence the silence of the Muslim majority. I, in some ways, would almost applaud the re-establishment of the Muslim Caliphate; at least then there might be some chance of reform at the hands of a central leadership; else Islam will remain at odds with secular western society. Left in its current fragmented state,Islam will either tear itself apart from within or continue to be looked on with mistrust and suspision in secular society .

Abdul Ameer is correct, they do not think and feel the same way westerners do, gaza is using its children to gain the sympathy of the world by putting them in danger. Hamas could have used its money for electricity, hospitals, education and food but instead uses it to continue its Charter in which it states that Israel must not exist and that palestinians are not to rest or give in any inch until israel no longer exists, it uses its money to buy more weapons to continue a fight - there will be no pleasing them no matter how much ground israel gives up - they were given gaza and continue to fight israel because their charter tells them to. They don't value human life, they think its honourable to martyr their innocents.