Large crack develops in landmark church

They should let the church fall. No one goes to church anymore anyway.

the MBTA is an absolute joke. Guess who will pay for this.....you guessed it, Joe Taxpayer.

The T has to be most poorly-run organization in the country's system. I hear that they are "in dire need of public funds as part of the toll hike and/or gas tax program" for weeks, then last night I see on the news they are eliminating seats on some red line trains to accomodate "rapidly growing demand."

Wow. What a COMPLETE AND UTTER SCAM THE WHOLE MBTA IS.

who care's it will get fixed anyways. Our infurstructre is crumbling around us so work needs to be done.

What does Obama have to do with this?

It's like god is sending a message....

another church facade we're not going to see for a couple of years. scaffolding and tarp and stuff. and it'll happen to another landmark in the neighborhood, then another, like a chain reaction.

Have God fix it..

I own a house which is location along the red line on the T. Due to contrustion and the vibrations of the trains foundations do show crack s and other structure damage..

It's called the BACK BAY because it used to be WATER!!
You built your church on a pile of trash, deal with it

I thin kthe headline is a bit misleading/sensationalist. The MBTA is only "accused" by the parishoners. Let's get some engineers in there and find out for certain. Though it wouldn't suprise me.

Shades of Jane Langton's "Divine Inspiration."

http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Inspiration-Homer-Kelly-Mystery/dp/0140173765/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228496295&sr=1-27

Does anyone think the MBTA hired the best possible contractor? When it comes to construction around historical landmarks the City MUST require the best of the best construction crews and put aside the bidding requirements. Do you want the lowest bidders working around historical landmarks?

MBTA involved...just cracks me up.

It may have been "built on trash" but it was built BEFORE the MBTA.....

Don't be QUITE so fast to criticize.....

Let it fall it is only a church.

Join the club. 305 Columbus has caused extensive damage in all the surrounding buildings. Help from the city? HAH! The BRA says: well I guess you'll have to sue.

Can the MBTA do ANYTHING right. I'll bet they were drunk digging again.

First the original benches that surround the BPL were damaged by such construction, now this. Why did they not build the elevator on the other side of the street? Too costly? Now look at the cost... The church is a beautiful work of architecture if nothing else and should be saved!

so bc the whole bakc bay was buil on marsh land~ not just water - its ok for the whole back bay to fall and crack? thats like saying the hood is ghetto~ just keep it ghetto! besides.. this is a not just a church~ its a major part of the back bay. not only do they finish the boston marathon infront of it, the parades also go by it, and the library is across the street. dont be stupid to think that just because this buidling might fall that nothing else will! if you know anything about the back bay you will know that most of the buildings are standing on massive looking telephone poles, not cemented to the ground like newer bulidings, so go ahead, knockc the church down.. you will only set off a string of buildings to follow~ and then we will all possilby litterlaly.. be in sh*ts creek!

ignorance is not a color

sounds about right for the incompotent MBTA...

Wow - what a bunch of cynical responses! Why not sink the Constitution and tear down all the other “old” stuff ? Boston’s historical landmarks and architecture make it one of the greatest cities in this country – to be preserved and treasured. Realize what you’ve got, people !

The neighborhood association begged the MBTA to build the elevator across Dartmouth street to avoid this problem- and the T called them a bunch of anti-disabled person NIMBYs. Across Boylston street the MBTA was asked to move the elevator down by the entrance to the new building of the library and the MBTA refused. They have since cracked at least one of the granite benches that constitutes the historic facade of the library and construction is halted/delayed because they ran into a steam pipe the neighborhood told them was probably there (the other granite benches are temporarily removed - I hope they were not in a holding yard with the stolen pieces of the Longfellow bridge). The people who have lived here for decades know the nighborhood extremely well. Sadly very few people in power listen to them even though they usually end up being right about the impact of construction and development. We have already turned Boylston Street into a canyon with the Mandarin and now the city wants to enhance that lovely effect on what the Mayor calls Boston's "Grand Boulevard" with an office tower.
Boys and girls - this is not Manhattan - and many of us choose to live here for exactly that reason. Sadly, Manhattan may sooon be more appealing than the beautiful city I traded up for 15 years ago.

it cost $45MM to install an elevator?

One event caused the crack. One construction worker messed up somewhere, and you're gonna blame the entire MBTA? Regardless of your thoughts on the MBTA, this one is not their fault. How in the world could they have done anything to prevent this? And do you really think a "better" (read: more expensive) construction company would have thought this through? It's just an unfortunate accident, and people are looking for someone to blame.

Nothing lasts forever, except maybe corruption in Boston City Hall.

who really cares. there are worse things to worry about than some cracks in a church. God (no pun intended) knows there are already pedifile crack -pots within the church walls!

David - again - the T was quite literally BEGGED to build this elevator across the street - they refused - unless this is the unlikeliest of coincidences - i(.e. the pile driver and other work that runs 16 hours a day had nothing to do with it)- they are responsible.

The MBTA is the worst organization in not only the state but possibly the country. Bad Management, awful union and uneducated employees. A laughing stock. We are being held hostage by them as they continue to make poor decisions. Please Deval, FIX THE MBTA ASAFP!!

Look carefully, you can see the Virgin Mary in the crack!

complete screw ups ,that church is a work of art and it is damamged by bumbling overpaid lets milk it unions , I hope they sue the crap out of the moron state even though the taxpayers will be screwed for it. well another reason why ma. residents are so dumb for not voting for question 1

How much time will pass before we find the same condition in Arlington St. Church?

If you're going to use such big words, Billy, you should first learn how to spell them.

i am a bit cracked by the whole thing

A couple of points:

"a large crack has developed in Old South Church"
Better see that in the church than the small crack of an altar boy.

"installing elevator shafts... multi-year, $45 million construction project "
Must be a union job.

"one of the largest organs in New England"
Hey! Hey! No need to drag me into this!!!

its a protestant church, they dont belive in the virgin mary and they dont have pedophiles

Large cracks are definitely ugly!!

We built a city on landfill...the neighbor associations and MBTA will all "monday morning QB" the decision to build and where was bad, but the underlying fact is the city is built on WATER. Yes, MBTA should pay (well, riders will pay with fare hikes) but come on people. Only a foolish man would build his house on the sand......

@ stevil are you sure that you lived in Manhattan? Becuase what you see on Boylston street is in no way like Manhattan. A 27 story office building can be barely considered a tower. What some of you chose to live in Boston in hopes to get away from NYC like living, others desire the opposite. This is a city and a city has to grow, not remain stagnant. Boylston street is not a canyon which suggest "tall" buildings on both side which does not exist. It's called a street wall.

#35, they certainly do have pedophiles! allbeit not as many as the Catholic church

WAIT! I see an image of the Virgin Mary in the crack!!!!! Let's sell it on Ebay!

My, what nasty, unpleasant comments from people who do not know anything about Old South Church. If you'd come, you'd see that OSC is a busy, vibrant, and FULL church on Sunday mornings. Our historic building is one of the gems of Boston. OSC has been working with the T for several years to be sure that this project did not damage the building, but I am not surprised at all that this happened. Despite the experience with Trinity, the T seems to have insisted that running a pile driver next to the church was necessary. What a shame. I am praying for my church.

PLEASE stop saying disrespectful things about this church.

$45 million? are they building some gold elevators?

Not surprising...it has only taken a couple of years to redo the various T stations...Copley and Arlington. And, both of those stations look the same day after day. So, it does not surprise me that the only thing they have accomplished is ruining a Boston landmark. Great job, Mr. Grabauskus!!

gee sorry cai, i'm not all that familar with them. guess you are more "in touch" with them.

p-e-d-o-p-h-i-l-e God knows there are already pedophile crack pots within the church walls p-e-d-o-p-h-i-l-e

let's stick to concern here which I stand pat with: who cares!

What a treasure the building is! Let's hope that the crack does not indicate significant structural damage and can be repaired without further damage to the organ, stained glass, and decorative interior. They don't make buildings like this any more.

My heart goes out to the congregation, whose concerts, weddings, and other special events might need to be cancelled or relocated during the holiday season.

Wow, there are a lot of crackpots in Boston.

Folks, you act as if the MBTA is the only publicly funded transit company in the nation. Has no one heard that New York City is facing an enormous task balancing the budget, in part due to the sharp decrease in revenue but also due to the very, very burdensome debt of the Metropolitan Transit Authority. In fact, the MTA has the largest budget of any organization within the NYC budget. They have a deficit of $27 billion! Boston is at $8 billion (of course, not great either). We can definitely fix our MBTA---but someone (we) have got to pay. NYC pays 4% CITY sales tax (in addition to NY State 4%) PLUS an additional .375% levied to help with THEIR debt specifically. Either pay 8.375% sales tax or stop whinning.

So the ADA required an elevator, which is reasonable because handicapped people need to get around too. From the article, the T and the church worked together-- knowing that the Back Bay hasn't historically been the greatest place to build-- to install sensing equipment and take other measures to try and keep the church from being damaged.
Then, life happened, and a crack was discovered in the building. More significantly, it seems from the article that a discrete event, attributable to a contractor's actions, was identified as being the likely cause, not just months of jammering away, digging a hole.
The T decided to halt further construction, to limit further damage. Quite reasonable. Furthermore, they decided to quickly accept responsibility and make the church whole again, and then later chase after the contractor for exposing them to this liability.

I'm missing where people think the T screwed up here. Seems to me both the T and the church have been working to find a just solution, instead of dragging it all out with endless finger-pointing that goes nowhere. Personally, I think this is a great example of two sides trying to make the most of a crummy situation.

most of your comments are TRASH.

also, when did Old South Church move to Copley?

I'm outta here!

This particular blog has to be filled with the most amount of the DUMBEST comments I have ever read on Boston.com. What did everyone in this city turn into a retard at lunchtime?

oh, n/m ... I'm thinking of that other church that paul revere drove to back when that thing happened in the 80s or whatever...

sorry about that. I need to walk the freedom trail again, I guess...

A lot of people are making very nasty and uninformed comments here. Why are you so mean? Whether you go to church (any church) or not, Old South does marvelous work in and for the City and for the community and should command respect. It does not deserve all the crap you're throwing at it in this forum. The Church was built long before the T, so any issues resulting from subway station construction are the responsibility of the T. And to those who think it cost $45M for an elevator, wake up. That price is for the entire Copley Station.

I use this station frequently. This construction project has gone on absurdly long. Literally over two years. I swear I see actual work going on less than 5% of the time.

The MBTA didn't do this because nobody is actually working on the construction site!

The ADA sucks. It's a wasteful law based on entitlements being marketed as 'rights'. Proponents of the ADA (the people who actually sue to enforce it) argue that stairs and escalators are discriminatory and violate civil rights. Huh? It's one thing to live in a world where a quarter of your population is required to sit in the back of the bus based on their skin color. It's another thing to say we can't afford $45 million to install elevators that will only get used a few dozen times a day, because someone decided that people in wheelchairs should be able to ride the Green Line instead of calling The Ride for door to door service..

Phil McCrackin is going to repair the cracks I heard. It's confirmed just like the overnight hypothesis that the MBTA caused the cracks, without any investigation.

whoever is letting these comments into the blog should lose their job...pathetic comments about the church, half truths about the MBTA

All those of you who say "it's only a church, let it fall" are probably ones who need to be going to church. Real nice.

Calm down! I'm sure the MBTA will go ALL OUT in fixing this.

First, they'll commission a $23.5 million report proving T management is not responsible. Next they'll launch an aggressive $11 million PR campaign to show how thrifty they are. Then, they'll sue one of the contractors and collect $15.11. After that, all the T employees get a $25/hr. raise and an extra four hour afternoon break. Finally, after the entire church collapses because the T awards the repair work to one of the Big Dig contractors, the T will use the site to build an enormous steel bus station that looks like a medical traction device. The T will celebrate the opening of the new station by having coked-out drivers crash three buses together, injuring 31 people.

So, it'll all work out!

Whoa... $45 MILLION to dig a hole for an elevator shaft?!! Something smells.

This is a mandated project so build we must, but ... knowing that the Back Bay is built on mashland ... wasn't there a place to construct the shaft that was not as close to the church or other buildings?

It is rather amusing that the blog filterer isn't filtering much. He or she must have taken a long lunch.

$45M for an ADA project is not expensive. Before you buffoons rant about the cost of something, get some edumacation.

Idiots. The lot of you!

Judging by the large percentage of foolish remarks in the previous 57 comments, I would say that some serious prayers for wisdom and enlightenment are in order for those who lack any brain material. If this is how apathetic this city has become, than this is no place that I would want to raise my family.

ihateada: I wonder what your opinion would be on the "entitlement" to get around on your own would be if you yourself were in a wheelchair. Or used crutches. Or a cane. Or had to use The RIDE, which is even less reliable than the regular T service.

Giving all groups of people the same access to transportation, buildings, shops, etc. that you and your group have is not giving that other group "special rights" or putting up with their "entitlement". It's giving them EQUAL rights.

Of course, for most people in this country, the thought of a group we don't like having equal rights to us is very, very scary. And that's just pathetic.

"If you'd come, you'd see that OSC is a busy, vibrant, and FULL church on Sunday mornings. Our historic building is one of the gems of Boston. OSC has been working with the T for several years to be sure that this project did not damage the building, but I am not surprised at all that this happened. Despite the experience with Trinity, the T seems to have insisted that running a pile driver next to the church was necessary. What a shame. I am praying for my church"

Actually - Old South Church is a LEFT LEANING LIBERAL church that flys under the same Banner as Jeremiah Wright's Church - The United Church of Christ. It is prabably cracking due to their belief in gay marriage, black nationalism, abortion rights, anti-Israel activities and support and because they tried to "ordain" woman as Catholic priests.

Drop your agenda UCC and you may actually see a reversal in your dropping congregations.

Look, in this day & age an elevator to transport our handicapped is way more important than a historical building!! In addition, there is much more to kick-back in a $45M budget for a lift! I'm surprised an effort wasn't made to move the church out of the area.

This articles comments are especially amusing today. Most notably:

#51 "This particular blog has to be filled with the most amount of the DUMBEST comments I have ever read on Boston.com. What did everyone in this city turn into a retard at lunchtime"....
filled with the most amount of DUMBEST comments??? Hawthorne I think you hit the nail on the head, and I guess we know what you did during lunch.

#7 "Have God fix it..t" ...haha... gotta love it

joke_transit,

You actually think MBTA is the worst run government institution in the country???? Clearly, you've never had to deal with Medicare or Medicaid, or seen the state of the roads in Illinois. There are things in this country that make the MBTA look like a paragon of efficiency and competence.

This church once had its bell tower rebuilt due to the settling
of the landfill in the Back Bay, but it seems incredulous that
an elevator excavation could cause such a problem. New Old South
is an historic landmark and deserves to be protected.

wench: that's the typical response from ADA proponents; if you oppose the ADA, it's because you hate persons with disabilities, or you don't know what it's like to ride a wheelchair. None of which reflect reality. The arguments of ADA opponents are based on hate, but out of common sense.

Suppose the time value of $45 million elevator is 5%, or $2.25 million a year, or $6,160 a day. Suppose each day, 50 people use the elevator who could not otherwise ride an escalator. That makes each elevator trip worth $122. For $122, you could rent a limo. How does this make sense?

Magnificat Performance to Proceed

You may have heard the news reports about construction damage to Old South Church, the venue for our free Sunday concert.

The good news: While our soprano section has been rumored to crack glass with their high notes, they've been proven powerless against masonry and steel.

We're glad to report that Old South has been evaluated by a team of structural engineers, and the concert will go on as planned. In the unlikely event that this changes, information will be posted to www.BostonChoral.org and at Old South Church. We hope to see you at 2:30pm on Sunday to enjoy our performance!

We promise not to shake the building too hard,
The Boston Choral Ensemble

Are Bostonians really as ignorant and stupid as the majority of these posts suggest? I hope not.

Who says "no one goes to church anymore?" Old South Church is a thriving congregation whose membership has dramatically INCREASED over the past 5 years. Stop by on a Sunday morning--the pews are quite full. Old South is led by two incredible people; Rev. Nancy S. Taylor (Senior Minister) and Rev. Quinn Caldwell (Associate Minister). This church does innumerable good works for the Greater Boston area. Go to the official website and learn about Old South before posting your grossly uninformed "comments" here:

http://www.oldsouth.org/
Old South Church and the MBTA will work things out. The church structure will be repaired and the Copley T stop will get its elevator. I suggest you stop the whining and hyperventilating now. "Joe Taxpayer" will not pay a penny for the repairs to this beautiful Landmark church.

Lets see effective mass transport or a cracked up church....hhhmm I will take the mass transport every time

Whoa! Let's all slow down for a minute and be a little more charitable to each other: to the beautiful Old South Church and congregation, to each other, and even to the fallible human beings who run the MBTA. We're all more human than we like to admit; the venom expressed in some of these messages is very sad, and says much more about those who write it than those they are criticizing. Life is tough enough: let's be good to each other. Henry or William James (forget which right now), another Bostonian ,said, "there are three things in life: be kind, be kind, and be kind."

Old South is great church with a fascinating history and a promising future. Old South is there to minister to all people. If you look at the history of this church, they have worked tirelessly for over 3 centuries to ensure the equality of all people regardless of religous affiliation or lack thereof, race, gender, sexual orientation and identity. To say this church should fall would be to silence the leading voice of freedom, equality and justice with an emphasis on peace and love within the Greater Boston area. These comments are based on ignorance - which is at the root of all violence and oppression.

The Patriot, you are a perfect example of what I am talking about. You haven't been to Old South, haven't attended a service, and don't know that this is a growing congregation. Please, remember that it is better to be thought a fool and remain silent, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Its fine that you disagree with us on some of our social positions...the truth is some of the members of OSC have diverse opinions on many of these things.

The damage to the building is not God's will, or because we support liberal religious causes. It is because the building is built on fill in the Back Bay, and the work being done by the T caused the ground to shift. So please, save your retributive theology. It's unnecessary.

To "The Patriot":

Old South Church is indeed a Liberal church, but what does that have to do with anything? The congregation is full of people of Faith who believe in an Awesome God and the Saving Power of Jesus Christ. Old South is not anti-American, nor anti-Israel. The cracks in the church's wall are due to a construction accident and nothing more. Old South does not support the ordination of women as priests; that's an issue the Catholic Church is struggling with. Old South is part of the United Church of Christ which is a Protestant denomination. The UCC's only 'agenda' is to spread the Gospel and to try to make this world a better place.

This has caused tonight's concert by Boston Secession to be moved to the Church of the Covenant on Newbury Street. Full details at http://www.bostonsecession.org/

DarkFenX - yes we have to grow and I even asked the BRA for the city plan at a public meeting so that we can review it and assist in figuring out where the best places for that growth would be that are good for the city but don't harm the fabric of the neighborhood. Unfortunately I was told that our planning agency (the BRA) doesn't have a plan. They just judge things project by project.
You're right - it's not Manhattan yet. But neither was Manhattan until they turned it into Manhattan. The opinions I've heard on the Mandarin are unanimous - what were they thinking (or were they) - ugly/bland architecture, too big and makes the street feel like a cave - and those are comments from friends that don't live here. I can't print what the neighbors say about it. I personally avoid the block and stay over in the sun on Newbury Street whenever possible.

I'm with 'hateada' -- the ADA is based on liberals' desire to pretend that the way the world is in reality the way that we might wish it to be in our dreams. It would be less expensive to hire chauffeur-driven limousines for the disabled (never mind the Ride service) than to fund expensive public works projects such as the $45 million elevator that might only be used a few times a day. Sorry, but this amounts to special treatment, not "equal rights".

This beautiful gem in the copley square should not have been damage at all. They tried to stop the elevators project on that side of the street but the courts would not allow it. Now why should the church be expected to pay for the damage caused by the mbta and the contractor. The church community there is a vibrant protestant congregation of the united church of christ. We would all be speaking the queen's english if it was not for the rebel rousers in this church. Have you forgotten were the boston tea party began. Fix the church and build the elevators elsewhere.

"Old South does not support the ordination of women as priests;"

Nancy Taylor was certainly involved in that laughable mockery of Catholicism. Butting in where she is not wanted and SHE is the one stirring up trouble between denominations.

"the truth is some of the members of OSC have diverse opinions on many of these things."

Yeah like Jeremiah Wrights assertions that The US Government spread AIDS to the ghettos?

The National UCC organization supports Wright and others who have shown poor judgement time and time again with their "social justice" agenda

You know what - you get in my face and I will get in yours. You liberals cry when we call you out - but YOU are the ones pushing buttons and pissing people off.

JPLodine says: "the ADA is based on liberals' desire to pretend that the way the world is in reality the way that we might wish it to be in our dreams."

I apparently didn't get the memo that President George H.W. Bush is a pinko commie liberal. Wow! You know, since he was after all, the president who signed into law the ADA. I learn something new every day.

I hope some of you realize how hurtful your comments are to us at Old South. First of all, we are Protestant and do not have altar boys. We have policies set so that abuse by anyone in the church is highly unlikely since doors have glass windows or are left open. Many of us are struggling just like everyone else. Old South is a place of hope, healing and fellowship and we welcome everyone, no matter what they do or do not believe. This situation is hard enough. Please think before you write mean-spirited comments.

Huh?? I never said that George H. W. Bush was a pinko commie liberal. I do believe however that he was misguided in signing this legislation. President Bush (41) is certainly an admirable man, but I've never regarded him as a particularly principled conservative.

P.S. We might be able to do without the flippant, sarcastic tone of erikyow's post. Just a thought.

please think before you mess with the Catholic Church and try to "ordain" women as priests

Please think before you push gay marriage propaganda on churchgoers and split churches

Please think before Nancy Taylor welcomes Palestinian sympathizers with open arms.

"Old South is a place of hope, healing and fellowship and we welcome everyone, no matter what they do or do not believe."

And this is the crux of your problem. Heck , let the Satanists in as well! This is the dilution of the Gospel that is ruining this country

LOL Kathy, whatever. Hopefully the whole church will fall to the ground...

Damage to any landmark building is a terrible occurrence. Worse so for one that is home to a vital faith community and a beautiful cornerstone of Copley Square.

Extreme right fundamentalists may not like Old South's openness to change, but the congregation's history has been consistently on that side from taking on the Brits in the Boston Tea Party, Old South member William Dawes riding with Paul Revere, defending Trinitarianism, opposing slavery, supporting integration, supporting women's rights, gay rights, on, and on. The congregation has been intertwined with this country's history from well before its baptism of Benjamin Franklin on to the current election of Barack Obama — a member of the same United Church of Christ denomination.

It is difficult to imagine a fellow church member taking pleasure in damage to any house of worship—liberal or conservative, landmark or only just built.

For those who find ease and comfort sitting in judgment of this congregation, or ascribing divine retribution to an engineering event, your Schadenfreude becomes you.

Remove not the ancient landmark, which thy fathers have set.
Proverbs 22:28

This church is a place of worship for a group of people. We should respect their beliefs even if they are not held by us. This building is also an historical structure and should be preserved. If any of you neophites have ever been to Europe you would see that they try and preserve their hertiage. That is what is becoming wrong with this country. Because it's old it should not be valued. We should value what has come before us and learn from the history and the blood, sweat and tears that it took to build what we have today, and not tear try to tear it down. We should value our past so that we can preserve our children's futures.

"Extreme right fundamentalists"

You wish Jimmy boy

better you find out how much damage the hateful UCC leaders have done to their own denomination. You will find it is regular everyday Democrats like me who think your "openness to change" is just a political agenda.

We do not find pleasure in the church's crack - just hypocrisy in the presss around it.

Check your facts "patriot." Of mainline Protestant denominations the UCC is growing, not shrinking. In the tradition of its history of congregational structure, local churches are mostly self-governing, national and regional leadership is hardly top-down governance.

The bible has been used to condone rape and even prostitution, continue the oppression of women, and defend chattel slavery of human beings. This will probably always be so. For some of us, it stands to reason that if we can look at passages condoning a father prostituting his daughters, requiring a slave to honor his master, or threatening a destiny in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone for a farmer who plants a field with more than one kind of seed, or wears a coat made of two kinds of fiber, there just might possibly be some other things not to be taken fundamentally as a guide for righteous life today, or 2300 years ago. I'm not asking you to eat shell fish, to wear poly-blend fabrics, rotate your crops, or marry a member of your own, or another sex, or to share my view. I'm fully content to let God be my judge.

Many UCC congregations in Massachusetts elect not to perform gay marriages. The Massachusetts law requires no church to perform any ceremony or recognize any relationship. In fact, Massachusetts excludes churches from the antidiscrimination clause in employment based on sexual orientation.

The "everyday Democrats" you claim to speak for just voted overwhelmingly for change, and elected a member of the United Church of Christ.

Obama was not elected by a cherry-picked boutique niche of arugala munching liberals. My 83 year old daily mass attending Roman Catholic aunt voted for Obama. I make no excuses for Jeremiah Wright and his magic thinking about HIV, nor do I wholesale condemn Catholic priests or other clergy who disagree with me on an issue. I'm convinced I have far more in common with them than our differences. If your opinion of Wright is based on a 17 second excerpt in a 30+ year career, consider listening to the full context of at least that speech on youtube. You might not need to touch a stove to know that it's hot, but you could look first to see whether it's turned on.

If you curious where your country is going check out this map: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/flash/politics/20081104_ELECTION_RECAP/electionChange2.swf

if it was your house the mbta damaged then you would expect them to fix it. So should a house of worship not expected the same. The patriot commentor needs to reread american history (especially the history of the ucc) before such words of hatred are directed at i the old south church and its members.