Bishop Gene Robinson gets inaugural role

nice try.

Isn't a bisexual by definition disloyal to one or the other partner? Should we let him/her have a spouse of each gender in the spirit of fairness?.
I'm not going to hate anybody, and of course they are free to do what they want, but can't they find another name for their relationship?
I think it wrong for us Catholics to want to deny anyone certain basic rights, especially those pertaining to health care, even abortion, to anyone at all, but Catholic politicians should have to brand it for what it is, Serious Sin, an aberration from a long standing moral code.

Maybe the gay people will shut up for a while.

I think this is great !!! Bish Robinson It is in stark contrast to the hate filled heart of rick warren.
Obama should start watching his step, and this is a step in the right direction.

How utterly disappointing. But, it was to be expected.

Diversity is a great thing, but should not include equating right with wrong. That's not diversity... it's called chaos. Which is where this country is continuing to toward.

Come soon, Lord Jesus. Your people (imperfect as we all are) yearn for you to come and reign.

Dear Jacko and Will,
Both haters and hypocrites. I bet your sins will make you burn in hell.
With love,
Lisa

Beautiful prayers, indeed. I might add that we could all insert "us" in the place of "him" on each line as it is WE the PEOPLE who elected Barak and he will need each one of US to do our parts. So we will need all these wonderful qualities to manifest in us as we take up our duties to participate in the renewal of OUR country.

That's nice. Obama is now reaching out to the liberal white establishment. Modern Episcopal Church is a dying church full of old white folks trying to justify their irrelevant existence by pretending to embrace diversity and social activism. Evangelical movement today is far more diverse in its make up than so the called liberal organizations like the mainline denominations AND the mainstream media like Boston Globe.

Why are catholics usually the meanest people?

Living in a box.

Most of the bigotry I've seen or heard have come from Liberals and especially recently the gays. What a shame. There is nothing wrong with supporting only marriage between a man and woman. Why can't gays understand this? And no it's not a civil right.

More like a step in the wrong direction. I guess people don't really read their Bibles these days! It says we are not to have any fellowship with a person who calls themselves a brother, but who is sexually immoral. I don't hate gays, lesbians, bisexuals, or transgender people, but I do believe what God's infallible Word says.

Good Gods, spare us from such mediocrity as this prayer. Give me a real atheist with passion or a religious person with conviction but this, this is lukewarm gruel, not fit for human consumption.

The only thing Gene Robinson has going for himself is his homosexuality. If not for that, he would be the leader of a tiny diocese that is rapidly getting tinier. He travels the world being feted in style while complaining of his victimness. Now, the country will be exposed to this narcissist. Good.

The Right is WRONG. Marriage is a civil right and should be allowed for theses couples. They are human, after all. And who are any of you to judge. I thought in the end only God was a judge, so if those of you who tout the Bible, believe in it: why on Earth are you not following that? Marriage should be for the Gay/Lesbian couple in love just as much as it should be for the man/woman couple.

Wow. I'm not usually a big fan of Christianity. I'm used to thinking of it as a petty, divisive, vindictive worldview, as evidenced by some of the previous comments and in direct contradiction to the example of Jesus Christ. But I'd like to attend a few services offered by this man. He seems to pay real attention to what Jesus himself was saying and showing, and that makes him an interesting preacher.

Why is Obama's choice of this man from an irrelevant dying denomination praised by the mainstream media, whereas the choice of Rick Warren was deemed so controversial? I hate to admit it, but may be Sarah Palin is right after all. This liberal bias is about class. What could be more WASP than an Episcopalian? What could be more WASP than an average Episcopalian? A gay Episcopalian! When was the last time you saw an Irish, Asian, Black or Hispanic Episcopalian?

I think that for no other reason than this: ""While that is a holy and sacred text to me, it is not for many Americans," Robinson said. "I will be careful not to be especially Christian in my prayer. This is a prayer for the whole nation."" he should be excommunicated. This man is not a Christian, and although I supported him when he claimed to be Christian AND gay, I do NOT support him when he claims to be Christian and then denounces Christianity. I really now believe that he only ever had the aim to split the church and to stir trouble. If he can as easily follow/believe the tenets of other religions, he should have chosen one of them to pursue a career. I am SO very disappointed in him and it makes.

Most of you are missing the entire point. By selecting Warren AND Robinson, he is using symbols to reinforce his campaign promises to be a president for ALL America. I don't care if you disagree with either, just recognize that Obama is setting a "not Bush" tone. It remains to be seen if his policies match his rhetoric, but it sure is refreshing. It also helps that he has the substantial Democratic majority in the House and Senate to push it through if his touchy-feely approach fails. Bush didn't have a big cushion in 2001. But don't underestimate the flexibility he has with a big majority.

Robinson spoke at my daughter's graduation a few years back. He is extremely bright, humerous, and articulate. While this doesn't make up for that nitwit Warren, it's a step in the right direction. He's a great choice and will do a terrific job.

Tim, I resptfully disagree with your statement. I spend a good portion of my free time volunteering at my Parish. Those whom I work with are 100% Catholic Doctrine following Catholics and not one of them is mean to anyone. They are compassionate and kind to everyone even those whom dispute the Church teachings. There are many Catholics whom are Catholic in name only. If any Catholic is being mean, they are strictly going against Jesus and the Church. Peace and Blessings.

Why do people praise and look forward to hearing a minister who left his wife and children WHILE SERVING AS A MINISTER to have an extramarital affair in direct opposition to the "thou shalt not commit adultery" commandment?
If he can't follow his own rules, what makes him capable of leading anything?

Bishop Gene Robinson says "I will be careful not to be especially Christian in my prayer." I'm thinking that won't be too much of a stretch for him. But I must admit befuddlement as to why he thinks someone "especially Christian" can't pray for an entire nation... Perhaps it has something to do with modeling the "real Jesus" that people who don't read the gospels like to appeal to for authority.

The article notes that the prayer included is NOT the prayer that Bishop Robinson will in fact be reciting, and I hope that he does revise it to be more positively affirming. I don't know how people can consider the Bible with its many internal contradictions, let alone the contradictions between its claims and the world that God has made, to be "infallible." (As a metaphor, even God can't make a triangle have four sides.) But, then, I don't understand how people could have voted for George W. Bush twice.

I can't say that I'm all that thrilled about Obama's balancing act, though. On the one hand, at the inauguration ceremony itself, you have the Rev. Lowery, a truly impressive figure in the Civil Rights movement. On the other hand, at the inauguration ceremony itself, you have Rick Warren, whose "spiritual father" was the number 1 segregationist in the Southern Baptist movement who supported the use of thugs to keep blacks out of white churches. On the one hand, you have Gene Robinson, who exemplifies the right of two consenting adults to share their lives together, even if it does not yet have legal recognition. On the other hand, you have Rick Warren, who have some truly disgusting opinions about the legal recognition of marriage. (Despite the numerous lies to the contrary, whether a religious group recognizes same-sex marriage (or remarriage of divorced people, for that matter) is no concern to advocates of civil equality). On the one hand, you have a woman, Sharon Watkins, who heads a Christian denomination, and on the other hand, you have Rick Warren, whose religious doctrine has opposed the ordination of women.

Nudels: The reason it is controversial is that many have picked pastors that reflect their personal beliefs. Warren clearly does not. Robinson is a lot closer. The UCC of which Obama is a member is "open and affirming" as regards gays and same sex marriage. Don't blame media bias on this one.

The irony is this: one who attempts to represent one who has tamed his desires (i.e. a leader; model) is utilising the reproduction functions for something other than reproduction. Yeah, this applies to heterosexuals, as well. There is wisdom behind the logic of not allowing our passions to drive us. Obviously, this individual is not qualified to encourage another to do what he cannot. However, as a business person and administrator, he might certainly qualify for the role.

So, which is it? Do you want a leader or an administrator? Perhaps, this is the question, yeah? It appears to me that there aren't many leaders in our world who place a value on wisdom. In fact, we just elected an administrator to become our next President. Of course, possessing wisdom does not imply spouting off a few relative quips when the cameras and mics are on. One must do.

Bisexuality does not equate with infidelity. It just refers to someone who is more open about his or her partnering options. However, once in a relationship, bisexuals are no more or less likely to be unfaithful as anybody else.

The problem with trying to appeal to both sides of the gay issue is that there really is no middle ground. You either believe that homosexual relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships, or you don't. If you do believe in this equality, it naturally follows that same-sex marriage should be legal, and that gay people should be equal under the law. If you don't, then the opposite naturally follows.

Dear The Right: Please open your eyes. Times are changing- you can believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman all you want, your church can practice that belief as openly as they want, but you have no right dictating how others live their lives so long as it does not affect yours. Last I checked, church and state were two very different entities that have NO place messing in each other's business. I am saddened by the responses to this article, like yours The Right, and I can only hope that you do not have family members suffering in the closet because they are afraid of your hateful ideals.

"I think it wrong for us Catholics to want to deny anyone certain basic rights, especially those pertaining to health care, even abortion, to anyone at all, but Catholic politicians should have to brand it for what it is, Serious Sin, an aberration from a long standing moral code."

I think what you mean is a code of conduct intended for a semi-nomadic and warlike people who lived in a desert half-way around the world over 3,000 years ago . . . Seriously, with close to 7,000,000,000 on the planet I think time to amend, or at least modify, the 'sexuality-procreation' paradigm. Kinda primitive, if you think about it.

The Roman church is not so foolish as Evangelicals as to attempt to 'convert' homosexuals. Rather, they would have homosexuals understand their sexuality as a 'special challenge' from God, and 'offer up' their intimate lives just as they might chocolate for Lent -- not unlike the vows of their priest, and we all know how well it works there ;)

And am I to understand you count abortion to be a greater 'sin' than homosexuality? Don't get me wrong: I'm pro-choice, but I think abortion is tragic.

I am of the opinion that the Right Reverend Robinson's sexuality is immaterial to his spirituality. However in attempting to negotiate a middle path, the Anglican Communion again finds itself on shaky ground, not unlike their failed effort to reconcile traditional liturgy and ecclesiastical hierarchy with emergent Puritanism in the early 17th Cen.

I can't think of any issue LESS important than gay America attempts to force THEIR views on the rest of us, Gay marriage has been defeated each every time it has been put on the ballot. It is only legal in MASS because of a judge, not the will of the people. Mass politicians don't have the guts to put gay marriage up for a vote.

"Evangelical movement today is far more diverse in its make up than so the called liberal organizations like the mainline denominations AND the mainstream media like Boston Globe."

The ascendancy of evangelicalism is perhaps the surest sign of the ruin our education system has become: ignorant people looking for an easy answer; one book fits all. Critical intelligence is in short supply.

Oh, please... if it wasn't Gene Robinson, none of you would even have the slightest interest in who it was. Just because he's gay, it's all of a sudden a huge issue for you.

There are gay people all around you. You work with them, they are at your church, they teach your kids, and I'm sure you LIKE a lot of them. So if they came out to you, you would all of a sudden NOT like them? Just because they are gay? Yeah, that's real "Christian!"

Nudels - The Episcopal Church I know, and of which I am a member, is far from a "a dying church full of old white folks." When I look around, I see a wonderful representation of society -- young, old, white, black, Asians, gays, straights, and yup, old white folks like me. I am so proud that Gene Robinson will be speaking! He is a great voice of reason.

A pathetic and transparent attempt on the part of Obama to pander to the radical homosexuals.

Moves like this only alienate people, they make him no friends.

My opinion of Obama sinks every day?

Why do we even bother with the seperation of church and state any more. Really, does anyone beleive that it there any more?

There should be no religion on our goverment at all. At no event should there be prayer, at no time should ANY religon be considered, ever!

You want to have a private prayer session, fine, do it in private.

While I damn Warren to hell of all eternity for his immoral, disgraceful and bigotted comments on gays, gay marriage and women in general, I still do not want Robinson giving any religious prayer either. Warren is a disgusting human being who no one with any brains should take as a role model and his words should fall on deaf ears.

I have to agree with an earlier post ... "why are Catholics the meanest people?"

Being of Hebrew descent, I rarely hear Jewish people verbalizing hateful remarks about others ... gay people included. In fact, I can not even remember the last time I saw a U.S. Jewish leader in the press (spotlit and cameras rolling) dictating terms, preaching oppression and/or speaking on behalf of God ... as if a direct line to God Himself existed. Nor have I noticed any Jewish groups discreetly funding (and I do mean discreetly) public causes to support their own agendas (i.e. Prop 8 in California).

As my mother use to say to me when I was a young lad ... "no one died and left you boss."

Glad to see Obama sticking up for the minority again. Even better if if helps break down some of the prejudicial barriers to accompllishment that gays face from the
evil conservatives on the right.

A good sign of what is to come from Obama, I hope he continues to press the public to break with their prejudice.

drr1981: Which version of "God's infallible Word" are referring to?

"I can't think of any issue LESS important than gay America attempts to force THEIR views on the rest of us, Gay marriage has been defeated each every time it has been put on the ballot. It is only legal in MASS because of a judge, not the will of the people. Mass politicians don't have the guts to put gay marriage up for a vote."

Celtic17, you're demonstrating a poor understanding of basic civics: gays see marriage as their civil right, and as such should not be abrogated by that great failing of democracy 'the Tyranny of the Majority' (i.e. the electorate). Foreseeing this problem, our Founding Fathers wisely provided the courts both with a voice equal to that of the electorate and a mandate to protect the rights of oppressed minorities.

Had it been submitted as a referrendum to the electorate in 1954, 'separate but equal' would have been supported by the majority of American voters, and but for the intervention of some meddlesome 'activist judges' would still be the law of the land. Similarly, a plebicite in 1930s Germany regarding that government's handling of 'the Jewish Question' would have received overwheming support. Alas, Hitler's Germany did not have any 'activists judges'.

"What could be more WASP than an average Episcopalian? A gay Episcopalian! When was the last time you saw an Irish, Asian, Black or Hispanic Episcopalian?"

Nudels, believe it or not the the Anglican Church of Ireland is one of the few growing flocks in that once Roman theocracy. In the space of a generation, the Irish have emerged from the middle ages into the 21st Century, and it seems they would prefer clergy with whom they can trust their kids ;)

I agree that this was a pandering, but certainly not only to radical homosexuals.
My opinion of Obama sinks frequently too, although I did vote for him...
Lately I have concluded that he is more of a politician than he portrayed on the campaign.
I am a homosexual male, though by no means radical... unless you consider my belief in my civil right to 'marry' another man radical. More importantly, I believe in the right to have laws free from religion. While that may be radical to some of you, the separation of church and state is, as you know, not a new concept.
I believe the state should call all 'marriages'- hetero and homo- civil unions. I support religious organizations' right to define their marriages as they see fit; however, if they are so dedicated to religious guidelines and the sanctity of marriage, then they should define marriage as One Man, One Woman, One Time and forbid divorce. And for you Catholics who will respond and say your church does forbid divorce.... they don't.
Consider:
One does NOT choose his/her sexuality.
One DOES choose to believe in God.
One DOES choose to believe in Santa Claus, though most of us grow out of that when we contemplate the absurdity of the story (often before the age of 8).
We look back upon old world religions and refer to those as mythology... at some point in a future time, all of the monotheistic religions of today will be viewed the same.
Jesus is coming.... Everyone look busy.
Think about it.

"Why are catholics usually the meanest people? "

Living in a box, I've always thought it's because they're not gettin' it as much as the need to, and when they do they have to think about makin' babies or else it's a mortal sin!

Seriously Catholicism has a pernicious nickle and dime spiritual economy of sin and penance which permits many Catholics to engage in truly atrocious behavior and then wipe the slate clean with ten Hail Marys. The Kennedys. Need I say more?

There is an Episcopalian church in Ireland. It's called the Church of Ireland. Look it up. I'm of Eastern European descent, and I'm an Episcopalian. "Dying denomination?" I know some religious groups are determined to have the most members, but whatever. I'm proud that the Episcopal Church has made some steps toward embracing diversity. Do you think Jesus would be turning people away? I highly doubt it. So-called Christians who think they live by the Bible are usually the worst people. If you followed everything in the Bible, men wouldn't shave and women wouldn't cut their hair, and then there's that thing about selling your daughter into slavery, but I digress. The Bible is filled with nonsense, and that's what many people tend to promote, for whatever reason. Probably because it's hard to be nice to people.

"I have to agree with an earlier post ... "why are Catholics the meanest people?"

Being of Hebrew descent, I rarely hear Jewish people verbalizing hateful remarks about others ... gay people included. In fact, I can not even remember the last time I saw a U.S. Jewish leader in the press (spotlit and cameras rolling) dictating terms, preaching oppression and/or speaking on behalf of God ..."

That's because a lot of Jewish folks are too busy persecuting Palestinians and supporting Israel... :-) You shouldn't generalize about Catholics. Many of us don't support the Radical Bishops in this country and view state approved gay marriage as a right. I dare say more than those of "Hebrew descent" who don't support the horrific acts currently being perpetrated by the IDF on the Citizens of Gaza as we speak.

Does this mean the Pope wont recognize our president?

And to all my "Radical Bishop Following Catholic" Friends who are posting on this page. Stop following the rhetoric and doctrine of these foolish celibate men. Who have driven away many Faithful Catholics by their reprehensible handling of the Sex Abuse scandals that continue to plague the church as recently as yesterday. Your place in heaven is no more assured by listening to them as it is by the Golden Rule which I have to believe Jesus would have followed to the letter.

"Do unto other as you would have other do unto you"

Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen

"I agree that this was a pandering, but certainly not only to radical homosexuals.
My opinion of Obama sinks frequently too, although I did vote for him..."

Joe, a little contemporary history lesson: in the first weeks of his administration Bill Clinton wasted both his momentum and the good-will of the electorate by highhandedly attempting to impose 'gays in the military' on an institutional culture about which he knew next to nothing and viewed him with contempt as a pot-smoking hippie draft-dodger. It was the first stumble on the slippery slope to the 'Contract with America'. Obama is no where near as arrogant as Bill Clinton, and is wisely steering away from hot-button issues until he shores up his power-base. Besides, between the economy and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan most of us think Bam's got enough on his plate already.

The civil rights of all of us, including gays, will be best advanced by the appointment of progressive judges over the course of the next eight years.

"Lately I have concluded that he is more of a politician than he portrayed on the campaign."

In other words, like many Americans you are discovering that he is not actually from heaven but rather from Chicago.

"Does this mean the Pope wont recognize our president?"

Leo, it wouldn't surprise me if the pope has issued a fatwah against Obama!

"prayer for the inauguration that he wrote for GQ magazine". Love it. Beyond satire. Also liked the part about Obama "remembering his own oppression as a minority". This would be the Princeton and Harvard educated President elect Barak Obama? Poor bastard. Glad I'm not him.

Another terrible choice by Obama. This moves insults all people. The only thing Robinson has going for him is the fact he abandoned his family to shack up with a man. This should be condemned, not honored, by responsible adults of all sexual preferences.

Gene Robinson is a narcissist. He put his own ego and desires ahead of his family and church. He is not serviing God but himself. Because of his arrogance, his church is fractured and the numbers are dwindling. He doesn't even have the guts to stand up for Christianity. He doesn't want to make his prayer "too Christian". He is not a real bishop and is a mockery of God and his church.

Imagine? God has to see/hear/read and know that he had something to do with making these people, who write cruel and childish things. He/She will still forgive them I know, and I'm hoping God gets to them before they hurt too many more.

Paul Q:
"Seriously Catholicism has a pernicious nickle and dime spiritual economy of sin and penance which permits many Catholics to engage in truly atrocious behavior and then wipe the slate clean with ten Hail Marys. The Kennedys. Need I say more?"

That shows how little you understand of Catholicism. Judging all Catholics by the actions of the Kennedys is like saying all Southern Baptists are perverts and womanizers like Bill Clinton. ( Clinton is a Southern Baptist).

Next time, try to sound a little more educated before opening your mouth and sounding like a fool.

Diversity, as defined by the Left destroys nations. The citizens of Rome lost faith in the virtues of the Roman Republic, became corrupt and fell at last. The same may be said of socialist Italy in the thirties and forties and socialist Germany under Hitler. The gay minister's prayer is not at all a prayer nor is it a peon for common unity; it is a demand, laced in pretty words, for the surrender of traditional values and the embracement, in the name of all things, peace, of ideas and practices such as homosexuality condemned during 2000 years of Western history; that and a pathetic call for the imposition of a totalitarian state in which all opinions not in conformity with those of this gay bishoip are forbidden upon threat of defamation: to disagree with the gay agenda and its ceaseless efforts to indoctrinate this country and corrupt its children by introducing them into a perverse and dangerous lifestyle is to be labeled "Homophobe" one inflicted with mental sickness, again for those who call Jihadist terrorism for what it is, Islamophobe, for those who do not subscribe to every feminist idea however radical, chauvinist, and for those with the temerity to suggest that this country require of its immigrants compliance with national law, zenophobes, and bigots. The bishop's screed is not a prayer; it is a leftist manifesto dressed up in words which this bishop holds in contempt. May he stuff it.

to "Huh?" and everyone else out there- the term is not "sexual preference", it's ORIENTATION. get it right. no one has a choice as to which gender they are attracted to, therefore it's not a preference.

Sorry, I got so caught up in the mean-speak that I didn't say what I originally wanted.
Barack Obama is brilliant and a good person, or has some pretty smart folks working for him. He's making SOME Americans proud to be American, and after reading Bishop Robinson's sermon they both make some of us happy to be human.

Paul: the Anglican and Episcopal clergy (and for that matter, so do the evangelicals) have as high a rate of sexual abuse as the Catholics. the Catholics, being the largest and oldest just get the most attention.

Paul in addition you have no concept about the Sacrament of Reconciliation/Confession. It's not a get out of hell free card. You must be sincerely sorry and make every effort to avoid sin, especially serious sin in the future. God knows when your lying and you can't brown nose Jesus. It is OK if you choose to disagree with the Catholic Church but please don't jump on the bandwagon of spreading untruths about the Church. One of my favorite quotes which I will paraphrase is there aren't 100 people whom hate the Catholic Church but thousands whom hate what they believe the Cathoic Church to be. Peace and Blessings.

I'm not so sure about that. Cite your sources, please.

So, why does he have to be "the gay" NH Bishop???
You wouldn't say "the straight" NH Bishop and his being a bishop is the reason above his sexual orientation he is invited! His sexual orientation is perhaps one of the least interesting things about him! You don't mention Rick Warren's sexual orientation!
As far as you or I know he is straight but...who cares?!

What IS interesting is that Obama appears to be staying away from his "home" denomination, The United Church of Christ. There are many more notable UCC people he could invite besides Jermiah Wright.

Christianity has two Gay martyred married saints st. serge and st. Baccus.
Read "Same sex unions in premodern europe" We helped establish the church!

Dear Mike T. Could you ask Jesus to stop at the corner store before he comes? I need some cat litter.

Freedom of Religion = Freedom FROM religion!

Isn't it strange that many people feel as though their religion gives them the right to cast judgement on other people?

"That shows how little you understand of Catholicism. Judging all Catholics by the actions of the Kennedys is like saying all Southern Baptists are perverts and womanizers like Bill Clinton. ( Clinton is a Southern Baptist).

Next time, try to sound a little more educated before opening your mouth and sounding like a fool."

Actually, Bill attends Methodist services these days with Hillary.

Rob, not careful reader, I see. I was not saying that all Catholics are like the Kennedys, only that their actions are emblematic of a peculiarly Catholic variety of moral duplicity: the left and right hand can be independent contractors provided one occasionally clutches a rosary and makes a heafty donation. This sort of operating hypocrisy inspired Molina to pen the cautionary tale of Don Juan in the early 17th Century.

After 12 years of parochial school, I know the beast pretty well, and am at times inclined, after the old Calvinist fashion, to think it marked 666: the Whore of Babylon is really the Whore of Rome, etc. Now, without looking it up please tell me about the following dogmas: Immaculate Conception, Concomitance of the Eucharist, the Assumption, Salvation through Deeds; and then explain to me why the last stuck in Luther's craw. Next we can move on to a discussion of the Platonic antecedents of Augustine's organization of the Church as a reflection the heavenly order, Aquinas on grace, etc. Betcha can't do it without going to wikipedia haha!

And for all who wish to feel good about excluding gays (from marriage, church, community, military service, etc) remember we as a nation (the land of the free) once excluded blacks, native Americans, and those who were not property owners. In the same spirit of orthodoxy we excluded women and the afore-mentioned from voting and having equality before the law as men. Often these supporters of such points of view will cite the Bible which has only been read to underscore what they believe is banned....or cite the CHURCH which has ALWAYS been moral and right in it what God wants for the world. Have these who rail on gay people, etc. ever read history? The conversations of Jesus in the Gospels are referred to as though a reporter had followed him around and wrote them down. They have no question on How this book is the Word of God as though God wrote it and sanctified it word for word: Garden of Eden, humans created perfect falling into sin (original sin) because they listened to a snake and they had to have it forgiven by the perfect sacrifice of Christ's death on the cross, etc. And to have such a perfect, literal book that somehow escapes the cultural, legal and religious mores of their time, how is it different from other religious books such as the Koran?
What little we know of Jesus seems to show that he stepped across the barriers that separated people of his day: the scarlet women, the disenfranchised, those left out. He had no status with the religious and political leadership of his day. It was only after his death that he could be called king of kings, lord of lords, second person of the trinity, etc. All of that was created by those who came after him. And all those conversations recorded in the Gospels, all his words? They were written down no earlier than a generation (sixth or seventh decade of the first century). Before we speak so authoritatively about the Bible and Jesus perhaps we should take some lessons from history so far as it can be ascertained.

"Gene Robinson is a narcissist. He put his own ego and desires ahead of his family and church. He is not serviing God but himself. Because of his arrogance, his church is fractured and the numbers are dwindling. He doesn't even have the guts to stand up for Christianity. He doesn't want to make his prayer "too Christian". He is not a real bishop and is a mockery of God and his church."

Rob, thanks in large measure to this flaming 18th Century rationalist, Thomas Jefferson (perhaps you've heard of him?), there is no established religion in the United States. We have always been a secular state in which the majority of people happen to be some variety or other of Christian. Over the last century, a large and thriving Jewish community has been established here, and recent immigration has led to the establishment of significant Buddhist, Hindu, and Muslim communities as well. So Rt. Rev. Robinson is well advised to write a prayer addressing the common aspirations of all these religions. To put a civic forum to evangelical use would be highly inappropriate.

"Paul: the Anglican and Episcopal clergy (and for that matter, so do the evangelicals) have as high a rate of sexual abuse as the Catholics. the Catholics, being the largest and oldest just get the most attention."

Nah, it's just that they have more of a taste for 'chicken' ;)

Athanasius: Very true indeed. I am mystified when people appeal to Jesus as authority for the proposition that He would condone sinful behavior. I do not get that message when I read Scripture.

Nudels you are indeed a sad and pathetic hater of religion. I am an Episcopal of Irish descent, and I see Blacks, Hispanics, Asian and yes, even gay people every Sunday in Church. perhaps you should attend a service or two around the city before you make your ignorant assumptions.

Oh my, someone who embraces people who are different, someone who is willing to listen to those who are religiously, culturally and philosophically diverse. Someone who sees beyond stereotypes. Someone who has the audacity to question religious and political policies.Hmmm, who else might that describe? Associated with women. the leprous, the sinners, tax collectors, prostitutes the very cesspool of society, call me crazy but it sure appears to be dangerous when one lives like that man from Nazareth as opposed to simply talking about the Bible

Some of those self-described "conservatives" who insist on rendering unto God that which is Caesar's and rendering unto Caesar that which is God's could perhaps benefit from reading the words of one well-known politician who knew something about mingling church and state and depriving people of their rights of equality.

"The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for giving to Mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation. All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights. For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection, should demean themselves as good citizens."

Regretfully, to some extent this "liberal" was hypocritical because he never freed his slaves. But nonetheless I would like to hope that MOST Americans would prefer the philosophy and politics of the first "W," George Washington, to those of the soon-to-be-disgorged "W." George W. Bush

If everyone truely understood the beginning, evolution and teachings of the Catholic Church, it would be the only Christian faith. The ignorance of Church history and Her teachings on this board is infinite. (Especially you, Paul Q. - who reminds me of one of the most sigificant lines in Jack Nicholson's movie career..)

The bible is a fairy tale book like Mother Goose Anyone who takes it literally is a fool and does so to pass judgement on those they dislike or disagree with. They never truly take it literally though, for if they did they couild not survive in these times. That is why they are true bigots, picking and choosing... Organized religion is a joke. Jesus is rolling in his grave. Love is the answer as it has always been and those who practice love and acceptance and tolerance and humbleness and humility and forgiveness are those that are truly happy and worthy!!! Peace...

Joe - Jesus is not in the grave.

Thanks, Will!

Truth: The Bishop's full name is Vicky Gene Robinson.

Anyway, why do we need need professional prayers at a political event? A civic moment in time is being turned into a theological circus.

Pastor Steve. Any version.

Check out the Bible sometimes, and see what it says. God did not destroy Sodom and Gomorrah for the want of a reason. Scripture talks that the immoral would not
inherit the Kingdom. Who is being hateful now. People tune out what they don't want to hear. They will say thats an interpretation, but will not obey Scripture. Thats directly from upstairs...
Granted that there are many kinds of love-eros-the physical, passionate kind, between a man and a woman, and agape-more of a friendship, brotherly kind. Sometimes I think that people who are gay have confused that.

Kevin - it's sexual PREFERENCE. Everyone has a choice in who they have sex with.

All these small-minded homophobic bigoted comments in the name of Christianity simply confirm to me what I figured out as an 8 year old when I told my parents to take religion and shove it. I wish our country really practised separation of church and state as the Founding Fathers envisioned (hey, any of you ever read The Federalist Papers?) so we did not have to be subjected to all the religiosity. I mean, swear the Guy in as president and stop all the assinine praying and Jesus nonsense. Government has no business being in the business of religion. As far as all the homophobia in the comments: get over it people, marriage is for all and that is a good thing, at least in Massachsetts, a few other sane states and some forward-thinking countries (more on the way).

JennaH - Religion is a very important part of America's civic life.

Hmm, sounds like Obama's doing exactly what he said he would do... bringing people of differing views together. I know it's a shock for the "us vs them" crowds, and they exist on the left and right both. Don't panic, you'll get used to it... grownups with working brains in charge. What a nice change.

Maybe people will cut Warren a break now. Ops, how stupid, of course they won't. He is right wing.

Those who excoriate him because he is gay are the problem.

Could it be? A religious leader actually emulating the tolerance that Jesus exhibited during his Earthly life and praying for everyone? Viewing God as someone who belongs to everyone and not as the figurehead of an exclusive club?

Don't that beat all.

And no, I don't care about the man's personal life. Are his prayers less valuable, because he's made mistakes? Well please -let's hurry up and scan the globe for someone perfect to pray in his place, because I would hate for him to screw up this administration.

Mike T, you make me ashamed to call myself a Christian.

I wonder how these fundamentalists would feel if the shoe was on the other foot and they were suddenly informed that it was wrong for them to love who they loved. No doubt they would be obedient to God and make the appropriate adjustment.

Jammer, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the so-called separation of church and state (you'll find no such term in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or any founding document) is meant to protect religion from the state, not the state from religion, nor is it meant to protect you from having to come across a religious idea you might not like.

what a pathetically ignorant individual gene robinson is...

Art - very well said, thank you. Jefferson tried to sell his colleagues on "the separation of Church and state", but they weren't buying it. Why? Because the Founding Fathers wanted in particular to encourage and protect viewpoints informed by religious faith. My apologies to you anti-religionists, but you are anti-American.

Julia - you are either very confused or you are being very disingenuous. It is not the love that is the problem, but the unnatural and dangerous sexual act.

Most Catholics in the United States who aren't 100 years old, are not against gays and gay marriage, including myself. Catholicism is supposed to be a good thing, caring for your neighbor, being charitable, and kind. I'm sick of politics in religion, it's destroying communities.

Cursed is this nation and wrath is our God! He will bring man kind to his knees!

Contra Art and True Patriot, but the separation of church and state was neither only Jefferson's idea (which True Patriot seems to imply), nor meant to be one way. How could it be? If religion is to be kept safe from the state, then it is foolish to let any religion interfere with the state, because history shows that once a religion starts interfering with the state, it goes on to try to use the state to enforce religious uniformity and oppress other religious groups. Christians should have learned this lesson from their early history in Rome, where they were persecuted for being unwilling to engage in civic functions with often perfunctory pagan religious content.

If, True Patriot, you mean by "anti-religious" one who wants to prevent the use of state functions to advance a religious agenda, then that is certainly not anti-American. The Founding Fathers thought that religion was at its best when saving souls, not getting messed up in political battles. And they had several American philosophical traditions to draw on in holding that belief.

Uh, Jacko23, being bisexual means being attracted to people of either sex. It has nothing to do with infidelity, or having more than one partner.

Anyway, I'm very excited about Bishop Robinson, but I'm uncomfortable with the number of Christian religious leaders who are getting such important roles during Inauguration Week. Not all religious people are Christians, after all.

And Art, separation of church and state means a lot of things, including the freedom of people from religion. I'm a Jew, and proud of it, and I'd appreciate it if you and others like you would respect that this isn't about protecting Christianity, but about protecting United States citizens.

What a surprise that this thread drew all the troglodytes and bible bashers, half of whom will likely be arrested in a men's room for "toe-tapping" within the next six months.

"True Patriot" (snicker...if you have to *say* it, dude...),homosexual activities are hardly "unnatural," given their prevalence throughout the animal kingdom. Look up "biological exuberance."

George, in the Wholly Babble, Sodom was destroyed for failure to show hospitality to guests, which is a grave sin in a desert culture. And that "holy man," Lot, chose to try to protect the angels by offering the mob his virgin daughters to rape. Of course, they were only women, so who cares, right?

BRAVO Will !!!

True Patriot, please point out to me the part of the gospel where Jesus wastes valuable energy condemning homosexuals. Was it somewhere between letting all the children come to him and having his feet washed by the prostitute? They apparently skipped that in all of my Bible study classes.

I'm sorry that you don't realize that my not agreeing with you, doesn't equate to confusion. It equates to me not agreeing with you.

Dangerous and unnatural acts occur between people of the opposite sex all the time. Of course, both of those terms are subjective and imply personal taste. If two men are attempting to have sex with bombs strapped to their chests, then I might have to agree with you on the dangerous part. Otherwise, I'm just going to assume that you don't get the Discovery Channel or National Geographic where you live. It's the only explanation for your ignorance.

"I will be careful not to be especially Christian in my prayer"

President Elect Obama should reconsider his choice and choose someone who, at the very least, maintains their convictions both in public and private life - regardless of whom they are addressing . If the president elect were a Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc. I would hope that the prayers offered on his/her behalf would reflect that individual's faith. The Rev. Robinson does a disservice to the American people by sanitizing his invocation for the purpose of political correctness. I understand the Bishop's desire to provide an inclusive prayer on the national stage, but his decision to sound "not especially Christian" is misguided, representing a troubling trend of American social conformity. I am deeply troubled that a bishop, let alone any religious leader, would forfeit his religious identity in this manner.

"Gay marriage has been defeated each every time it has been put on the ballot"

With a constantly diminishing margin, as the older generations die. How many years more do you think you're going to have this argument in your disposal? Two? Three?

"There is nothing wrong with supporting only marriage between a man and woman. Why can't gays understand this? And no it's not a civil right."

Loving vs Virginia did define marriage as a basic civil right. I don't actually agree with its reasoning, but it is judicial precedent. And I'm not gay, btw -- lots of straight people oppose the anti-gay bigotry.

Paul Q,

Don't assume I can't hold my own on those topics of the Catholic Faith you mentioned. I also spent 12 years in Catholic Schools as well as taught religious education classes for 10 years in various parishes and have given talks on many Catholic retreats. I have taught about the Assumption, the Immaculate Conception, Concomitance of the Eucharist, etc. As for "Salvation through Deeds", that is one of the oldest misterpretations that people like you use to constantly attack the church. Don't challenge me on whether or not I know these teachings. I knew these long before the internet and wikipedia were even dreamed about. And if Wikipedia is your source of theological information, no wonder you are so misinformed. I'll stick to my Baltimore Catechism and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

"After 12 years of parochial school, I know the beast pretty well, and am at times inclined, after the old Calvinist fashion, to think it marked 666: the Whore of Babylon is really the Whore of Rome, etc."

You sound like you have been pretty well immersed in the false teachings and misterpretations typical of Luther, Calvin, 7th day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and other anti-Catholics. Let me guess, you read the Jack Chick tracks too. Probably. That's your problem, you don't know the church, you only know what you think is the Church as has been taught to you by those who hate Her.

I know exactly the point you were trying to make. You talk about moral duplicity, but I think it was Luther who had that down real well. He is the one that stated sin boldly but believe more boldly. And by his actions, he did exactly that. I am not going to get into a theological debate here, but confession is not a moral duplicity. It is acknowledging that as humans we are not perfect and we sin. It recognizing our sin and have the humiltiy and courage to seek the Lord's forgiveness while at the same time recieving counsel and spiritual advice from the priest so we may be able to avoid this sin in the future. No donations or rosaries will ever replace the confessional. Unfortunately there have been both lay people that don't amend thier ways after confession and priests that have abused this for thier own gain. One of Luther's central complaints was people trying to buy thier way into heaven through donations of money or services to the Church. Again that was due to corrupt priests in the church as there has always been corrupt ministers in any religion. That has never been a dogma of the Church in her 2000 years of existence. To say otherwise is a lie or gross misinterpretation of the Church teachings.

..."I will be careful not to be especially Christian in my prayer." ...WOW! and you are supposed to be a Christian bishop?! A shepherd for the flock of Jesus Christ?! Sounds like a false leader to me. If you are Muslim, then be Muslim. If you are Jewish, then be Jewish. If claim to be Christian and a bishop at that, but you will not "...be especially Christian...", then proclaim yourself as a hypocrite, for Jesus Christ is no stranger to betrayal by his "followers" and He offers no absolution for those that do not repent.

Prayer is talking to God- Obama would do well by getting some stranger to pray for him that way more people on this blog would have more to wonder.

Re: Marriage does anyone wonder why Ceasar or Emperor and their philosophers were tolerant of Same Sex lifestyle but they never recommended the marriage contract?
There is no precedence and Ive never heard of marriage really being a civil right in the history of the world.
I was wondering if the Catholic Church and the other churches are so hateful of same sex attraction then why do we have programs like Couragerc.net?

While I'd really prefer to see religious observations removed entirely from the inauguration ceremonies of *any* president of our secular United States government, I believe president-elect Obama's motivation in choosing those who will pray over the festivities is a good one. His call for unity despite our diversity of belief has merit; the deeper we allow our divisions to grow, the less likely we are to be able to deal with the great challenges that face us.

This comment thread, however, illustrates just how difficult are the hurdles he faces in hoping to unite this divided nation. I wish him the best, but sometimes I fear for the worst.

The fact that this event is taking place at the Lincoln Memorial on the same weekend that we remember Martin Luther King, Jr., should not be lost on anyone. The LGBT community is part of the dream that Dr. King extolled from the same location that hot August day in 1963. Let freedom, diversity and inclusion ring for everyone...absolutely everyone!

What is truely disappointing is that with everything going on in the world today == this got 104 postings. In a month -- no one will remember who spoke at these events. Nor should they. They really just don't matter.

Ephesians 4:2 (New International Version)
2Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.

Congratulations to Obama and the liberals in this nation-----------You're ushering in the "New" America alright------an America that should be labeled the New Sodom. Remember how THAT ended!

Relative to the comment "when was the last time you saw an Irish, Asian, Black, or Hispanic Episcopalian"; Birmingham, Alabama (yes...Alabama) has a Hispanic Episcopal congregation; also we have a black Episcopal church here that is very active in this city. We, too, have a deaf congregation with a deaf Priest! Re the comment that the Episcopal church is "dying and full of old white folks"; my parish is full of young professional families...physicians, lawyers, corporate CEO's, and blue collar folks with young children in addition to elderly/retired. We are active in outreach not only in Birmingham area but in other countries; making a trip annually to Mexico to build a house for the needy. We are not dying, but flourishing and doing God's work and "bursting at the seams" needing more space and having 4 services per Sunday to accomodate members.

BRENDA NOTHING HAPPENED, IT'S A STORY, A FAIRY TALE. ONE LIKE THOSE WRITTEN BY THE GRIMM'S BROS FOR CHILDREN

i will stop you not all judge people against gay people i do have humen right officer support me yeah i do. maybe obama his said work on his not see you sould not bad trouble is issue his will care about his say ing type marriage is fine gay or not his make
happy people

2.
bi sexual means attracted to both sexes it does not mean they are in a relationship with both at same time ..thats a populkar myth as bi girls having threesomes seems to be a very popular male myth ..some bis do date both same time but some straights are in open relationships too just not the norm ...

This thread obviously ran its course some months ago, but just in case some of the thoughtful, educated, and articulate contributors to it happen to check back, I'd like to thank them for responding--often with more restraint than I would have mustered--to those still wearing the blinders of narrow and prejudicial political and religious views. One wants to say that everyone has a right to his or her own views, but when an electorate, by one means or another, manages to put into the presidency a man of George W. Bush's diminutive stature, one sees the dangers of a population in which real thinking is not only uncommon but also unrecognized by those either unable or unprepared to engage in it. In that light, it seems a miracle that someone with Barack Obama's gifts was elevated to the nation's top office, and that someone with Bishop Robinson's thoughtfulness and depth of spirit was called to honor the occasion.