Archdiocese criticized on Caritas, abortion

There is no problem, abortian is not a religious issue, it is a political issue.
Medical care is neither.

How Dare the whack job pro-life crowd criticize the Arch-Diocese and Cardinal O'Malley... I thought if the Hierarchy told you to 'jump off a bridge" you'd do it!! Bring on the NUTS!!!! :-)

Heads up people, like it or not abortian IS a religious issue. I believe one of the ten commandments is still Tho shalt not kill. When I was pregnant I knew I carried a life, not a tissue to be disposed of. You and I were once that unborn life to. were you just a Blob? not me.

It is a matter of Faith....If one does not feel it meets their needs simply go to another which would. Let us not be disagreeable if we disagree. ...and as with all Life Issues, surely one will not deny that we all have different ideas and viewpoints.
Can anyone state with all confidence that perhapse they have said and/or did something that could have offended anyone, anyplace at anytime in their lives? We have free choice.

I am Pro Life and Catholic, but I am not Pro Life because I blindly follow the teachings of the Catholic church. I am Pro Life because I have seen first hand the destruction abortion has on women. If the truth about abortion was told, you would have a different opion. JB get out of your ivory tower and come down on the streets. Please don't posts if you really have no clue what your talking about.

Joanne this isn't you personal pity party... I'm just as free to post as you... I also believe that abortion is not something to be taken lightly. But it isn't your decision and the other radical pro-lifers to Legislate Morality and enforce your beliefs on others. FOCUS ON YOUR OWN FAMILY and pray for others to act morally. We don't live under the Christian version of SHARIA Law here as some "Christians" would have us do.

Joanne - thank you for your post. You are correct, both the mother and the child are victims of this barbaric practice. The moral abyss as indicated by JB tells us how far into the sewer this country has fallen. Even Norma McCorvey (Roe) is staunchly pro-life now, and terribly regrets her abortion. It is the greatest horror in the history of Western Civilization, as Athanasius posted on another Board. Thank you for your comments. God Bless you.

JB:
Why the ad hominem invectives? (whack job, nuts, sharia) Nobody attacked you first. Not likely to bring anyone over to your side.

You complain about those who would "legislate morality." But we legislate morality (murdering, stealing, etc.) all the time. And hasn't your side in effect legislated morality, in state laws allowing abortion, and legislating through the imperial unelected judiciary? Why is one side allowed to legislate their version of morality, and not the other? Because you advocate for one side, and against the other. Besides, all pro-lifers attempt to do is pro-pose legislation, just as the pro-abortion side does. If we lose a contest, we lose, but we have a right to speak and to advocate.

And unlike most of this blog's postings, this really is one that is intramural Catholic.

Formal cooperation in evil, in the case of abortion, would be if one actually helped commit the act. No Catholic hospital will do that.

Immediate direct cooperation in evil is helping the other person (or hospital) do something immoral such that they would not be able to do it without your help. This partnership between Carital and the other company does not fit this category.

Remote material cooperation is allowabe, for a proportionately good reason. It seems to me that Caritas is almost bankrupt and about to go out of business, and then there would be no hospitals for a Catholic or other pro-lifer to go to where no immoral procedures were done.

Scandal: I don't think one person would seriously believe that the Catholic church's teaching on abortion (that is, the Bible's) had changed because of such an arrangement. It sounds like only a way to buy equipment cheaper. It would not assist the other party one bit in committing an abortion, which they would do without Caritas's help. This is the sad reality of hospitals today, which once were
charitable ministries, but now are businesses.

A child's heart begins beating 18 days after conception ...

We should be glad our mothers did not choose abortion - otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. We wouldn't be ... at all.

Proud to be a Pro-Life Liberal!

If Caritas enters into any agreement with an evil pro-abortion organization, they'll NEVER see a penny of my health care again. Steve Keohane, U.S. Navy (Retired)

There is no such thing as a pro-life liberal. Liberals are all diluded and being led off a cliff by Satan. Pro life is a Republican thing. Don't imagine being what you aren't.

As far as I'm concerned they have NO right to comment on this issue after they didn't protect the youth of our community for those petifiles. What about those young girls that got pregnant as a result of being abused by these preists? Did they really expect that young women to have the child? Was the church going to financial support these children...NO.
If you want to decrease the number of abortions then the church and the State should give away free birth control.
I would like to understand what Joanne thinks is the truth about abortion?

A country that allow people kill their childrens... canot be blessed by GOD... wake up AMERICA

Religion is for morons who can't think for themselves. Case in point with how many spelling errors there are in the pro-lifers posts here. Get an education you meek minded individuals.

Steve Keohane,

I hate to break it to you, but there are pro-life liberals. Ever hear of the Catholic Workers? They are pro-life (no abortion, no death penalty, no unjust war) and dedicate their lives to serving the poor and working for social and economic justice. Seems pretty "liberal" to me.

As for your contention that "liberals are all diluded (sic) and being led off a cliff by Satan.", I suggest that you "dilute" whatever you were drinking at 1:37 this morning when you wrote that ridiculous statement.

Steve K... You sound like a staunch supporter of preemptive War and support the former Bush administrations position on rights under the constitution. Perhaps if you are looking for a religious dictatorship you'd be better suited to live in Syria, Saudi Arabia or even Western Pakistan. Their morals would be more appealing to you. Subjugation of women, chopping off the hands of thieves, etc etc... You have been deceived by Satan into believing that the Neo-Cons, Dick Cheney and GW were the party of god...

It disheartens me to see my minions fighting amongst themselves when their energies might be more effectively directed against those impudent proponents of representative democracy.

Perhaps it is time for me to reconvene my high council for some "brotherly correction" on the difference between my Law and this insurrectionist Spirit...

Dan,

Your contention that religion is for morons who can't think for themselves is ludicrous. Yes, most religions believe in some kind of revelation, and some kind of hierarchy entrusted with guarding that revelation. But everyone, including you, take some things on faith, some things you can't fully think for your self about, so you are a pot calling the kettle black. Do you fully understand the big bang theory? Theory of Relativity? Theory of evolution? Fully up to date with the global warming debate? Fully understand by your own investigation the economic crash? (if you do, please do something about it.) No, in each of these cases you have to rely on authorities. By far the majority of humans who have every lived have had some religion; pretty arrogant and elitist of you to think you know better than everyone else. Besides, this post is not about religion in general, but two contending interpretations of Catholic ethics. Catholics are allowed and encouraged to think for themselves, as long as it is not 180 degrees opposite of orthodoxy, which would be like a mathematician saying 2+2=5.

I think abortion is immoral period!! I think this not because I am religious, a Catholic, or a Republican, but because I believe in human rights. A couple hundred years ago blacks were considered chattel to be abused or killed without repercussion by their owners. We realize now how wrong that was now. Everyone actually realized it was wrong two hundred years ago, but because it was LEGAL we let it slide. If the un-born could speak, vote, boy cot, fight etc. We would not be having this discussion anymore. Why do people spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to save the life of a premature baby, when at the same time we abort the same aged fetus? It just does not make any sense.

Dan, you forgot an apostrophe after the word 'pro-lifers.' Your second sentence is also a fragment. Would you like to say something more about the importance of thinking and education?

congrats, Justin, i took a quick look and didn't find those. Dan was hoist on his own petard.

Hey Gaudete

Glad to see you guys are teaching grammar and spelling lessons now... Why don't we have a political science discussion on the morality of the Republican Party (the past 8 years) and how they've enriched the wealthy at the expense of the poor. Murdered innocent women and children through a war of choice and created an environment that didn't deliver you banned abortions but instead created an environment that caused more abortions than under the previous Clinton administration who I will point out signed the partial birth abortion ban. I beleive your
vote for George W. Bush should cause you to give penance for that vote. I have no such feeling of need for my vote for the new President. God bless the new administrations efforts to help the less fortunate in this country. Creating a climate that reduces abortion through sex education , contraception and abstinence.

"There is no such thing as a pro-life liberal. Liberals are all diluded and being led off a cliff by Satan. Pro life is a Republican thing. Don't imagine being what you aren't."
Posted by Steve Keohane March 5, 09 01:37 AM

You were being ironic and funny, right, Steve? Led by Satan - that's almost as funny as Republicans, America's own culture of death and indignity, being pro-life. Don't confuse anti-choice, pro-war authoritarianism with a pro-life mindset, Steve.

"Catholics are allowed and encouraged to think for themselves, as long as it is not 180 degrees opposite of orthodoxy, which would be like a mathematician saying 2+2=5."
Posted by gaudete March 5, 09 12:37 PM

The first contention is ludicrous on its face - Catholics are required, certainly according to you, KJR, and many of your leaders, to toe the line, and you know it. And try not to conflate your religious orthodoxy, which is nothing but opinion, with even simple arithmetic, which is proveable fact.

JB-
If the 'guys' remark in your recent comment includes me, you assume quite a bit about my political affiliations and voting record. I share many of your concerns about the evils which the Bush administration encouraged in policy and practice over the previous eight years. I participated in the large-scale protest of the anticipated approval of the Iraq War in D.C. on 1/19/03.
Yet I also participated in the March for Life three days later in the same city. I say this to make it known that I am unequivocally against the use of lethal violence directed at persons as a means to secure some hoped for end, whether it be security or prosperity. Both ends are, and should be subordinated to the importance of preserving and conserving, in both social and legal policy, respect for the dignity of all persons, born and unborn. Neither end can justify the use of intentional lethal violence .
While I share your concern to reduce abortions, such a concern should not obscure the importance of protesting and working to change any law or social policy that sanctions the use of intentional lethal violence for the accomplishment of a certain end.
In terms of social policy, I think a highly constructive political step the Obama administration can take is to support the passing of the Pregnant Women Support Act, a bill initiated and supported by a number of Democratic congressional and senate officials. It includes a number of good provisions for pre- and post- natal care.

JB,

Justin and I did not start the crusade for correct grammar and spelling, the presumably liberal Dan did; we just responded to his hypocrisy.

On the "war of choice," I completely agree with you. I wrote a letter to a newspaper which was published, before the current Iraq war started, saying that I did not think an attack on Iraq fit the 'just war' criteria, because it would be preemptive. I was in
favor of the response to Afghanistan, because they clearly sheltered Al Quaeda, which had attacked us. Despite our bad mistake of going into Iraq, i am also one for winning rather than losing once you have gone in, and the present situation of Iraq seems to bear that out.
I am not a Republican, I am an Independent, because neither party completely describes my political thinking. I am a conservative, and most think the GOP is the more conservative party, so i usually vote that way. I would be most comfortable voting for a pro-life democrat, but they are scarce. I prefer the in general care for the underprivileged (there is no one more underprivileged than the unborn baby), but I also believe that capitalism/market economy has proven better than every other economic system.
As a Christian, I always pray for the success of the present government, of whatever party, as long as their policies mirror God's revealed truth, for
instance, against the killing of unborn babies, and the starting of preemptive wars. At the present, early in his administration, I see the Obama administration tilting too far in the direction of socialism, which is a proven failure. Millions of immigrants come to the US because it is not a socialist country, so they can make a (capitalist) living. If i thought i was the deciding vote for, say, President Bush's election, there might be a case for penance, but in this far leftist state, my vote does not count.

Alright then... I left this question for KJR on the other blog and he hasn't answered...

What do you propose the penalty for the woman who has an abortion in this country be? What about if it's illegal in one state and that women leaves the state to go another and have abortion; what should the woman's penalty be then. Then consider if it's illegal in entire country the same woman leaves the country and goes to Canada what should the penalty be then.

Until the Pro-Lifers can concede moral ground and agree to stop attempts to criminalize mothers or health care professionals for abortions their can be no common ground. I still believe you should do penance for the 2nd GW vote :-)... He was unacceptable.

Regarding the "socialism issue" please remember when Clinton left office thenational debt was 5.3 Trillion with a 550 Billion dollar deficit. Bush blew 2.5 Trillion on tax cuts for the rich and another 2 Trillion and counting on Iraq. So before you start buying Rush Limbaugh spiel please do competent "main stream media fact checking..."

JB - your take licenses and criminalize the providers, and with regard to the woman, you charge with a form of homicide and like all crimes, take all circumstances in mitigation with regard to penalty, which does NOT necessarily mean jail. Your question is a red herring. Only 1 percent of abortions involve rape or incest. The rest are pregnancies where the woman voluntarily took the risk of getting pregnant. Unlike statements from other posts, we are not uncontrollable animals, and when another life is involved, all safeguards must be protected to protect that life. Millions of children would be saved from their murder. What about them JB? What about the children in the womb. Not one of your posts every talks about protecting the unborn child. What would YOU to to protect the child once conceived? Apparently nothing.

I can oppose with prejudice you and your fellow radicals in your efforts to criminalize mothers and health care providers #1. #2 Support government efforts to increase and support Abstinence, Sex Education and Contraception. Increase access to health care for single mothers and bring down barriers to adoption. Health Care is a RIGHT not a Privilege as many of you ilk believe. Pray for more Parental involvement in the families with Chrildren.

Until the Pro-Lifers can concede moral ground and agree to stop attempts to criminalize mothers or health care professionals for abortions their can be no common ground.

Remote material cooperation is allowable?
Get real, you are all in denial.
It's BABY MEAT at YOUR FEET.
You wish it were a blob of cells.
BABY MEAT at YOUR FEET

Abortion is A Terriblie Sinn &&You All Should Be Ashamed Of YourSelfs..Sike Naww.imOnlyy 14.What Do iKnoee About Abortion.
Onlyy What iAm Toldd OtherWise..iWouldnt Be Here.
Class Lab;( D...iDisagree Widd Abortion..But Yet You Can Nevar Fulley Understand Or Jugde One Another Unless You Have Been in A Situtation Where You Are Forced 2 Have One.iHave Nevar Been Pregant.iHave Nevar Hadd Sex.So iAm Not One 2 Judge..But imPretty Sure When Your Time Comes You..Will Understand.