Cardinal to seek second opinion on Caritas

Er, ah, big fan of Cardinal Sean, but shouldn't he have consulted with the Catholic Bio-Ethics Center before this?

I had read yesterday in the Pilot that some lady was claiming Caritas would refer patients who wanted abortions etc. to providers. If that had been true, then that would have changed my opinion on the whole deal 180 degrees. Referral would imply consent,would imply that 'we think you can get good health care there', referral would coopererate in, participate in, the moral evil too closely.

I don't get it. Isn't the point of the venture to ensure public funding that is based on access to reproductive services? Do the church's concerns extend to birth control as well? Are women expected to go to one doctor for primary care and then to another non-Caritas doctor for gynocological services if they desire contraception ? Women of child-bearing age (whether they are working or SAHM) don't have time for mulitple appointments so I would argue that this joint venture doesn't provide complete medical care to women and so shouldn't be allowed to have public funding.

Catholics do not believe in killing babies. Abortion kills babies. Therefore Catholics do no perform abortions . Amen

" Caritas will not even refer patients to abortion providers'

Wouldn't this cause a problem with them accessing government funds if they are not referring patients for services they need/want.

Gaudete,

The state said you can't have the contract unless you provide contraception and abortion services. Caritas has replied that it will provide contraception and abortion services.

Otherwise, the entire issue would be moot.

How do you think woman who wants abortion gets from point A to point B without getting shuffled there by Caritas Christi employees?

Caritas has said they will refer the patients out of network and Centene has been brought in as a third party. Caritas will outsource the patient to another facility who will then outsource her to the abortion facility.
Next time you bump into somebody who says they're thinking about abortion, refer them to somebody who'll take them there. This is the new Catholicism, courtesy of Bryan Hehir.

If the bioethics center confirms that outsourcing abortion is completely in accord with Church teaching, then Catholic prolifers surely must change the mission we and execution of practices for the last 40 years.

If we have been wrong all this time, then many of us have been misleading women and must change our practices to conform with the Catholic moral teaching of abortion referrals.

When your right hand is forcing you to sin, cut it off.

Carol McKinley et al,

Have you had a chance to read up on the doctrine of cooperation in evil lately? It's not as black and white as you may think. Of course, no one wishes to cooperate in the evil of others. But most of us pay taxes to levels of government that are immoral to various levels. We thereby involuntarily cooperate in those misdeeds, but sinfully? No, because that government used our money against our desires (e.g., abortion) Should we all (Catholics, in this case, but applies to all others) be selective tax evaders? If so, they better build prisons for another 50 million people. We are not co-responsible for their evil because we did not will it, and our pittance was not the sufficient cause leading to the evil. The harshness of being in prison, plus the loss of income, time, etc., plus our inability from prison to be ministering to the rest of society, is proportionate reason to reluctantly be in a form of 'partnership' with a government we partially deplore.

So now we have established that sometimes, in this imperfect world, tinged by the remaining effects of original sin, we must reluctantly cooperate with evil. then the question is one of degree, how much, under what circumstances. That is why we need a detailed explanation of exactly who would be doing what in the proposed Caritas agreement, so we can make our moral calculus.

Now regarding Card. O'Malley and other Church leaders, yes, on the one hand, they are not infallible in their prudential calculations on such questions; people of good will can differ. But on the other hand, it does not seem part of good 'family' etiquette and charity to cynically knee-jerkedly mistrust the bishop, until he is proven correct. It should be the other way around, trust and support, until proven wrong, and even then, fraternally reprove him, not verbally lynch him.

Well Gaudete,

The doctrine of cooperation with evil in no way, shape or form could be construed in the manner in which you try to create license.

We would never collaborate with putting Jews in the ovens. Anyone with a conscience that is. Some people in that environment were too scared and quite frankly did not have the resources to do something about it. That was an omission in the face of an evil that perhaps would be covered by your definition.

At my place of work, somebody may do something I object to. If my superiors told me my job involved giving abortion resources to pregnant women, it would be time for me to be moseying on down the road as this collaboration in evil is not doctrinally permissible. It is never permissible to be an accessory to abortion under any circumstances.

At a Catholic Hospital, a Cardinal is asking his employees to be an accessory to abortion because this is a changing world and he is covered by the doctrine of material cooperation?
Come now. Surely you did not grab onto this piece of wisdom from any faithful Catholic resource.

No, Carol M., of course, we "would never [intentionally] collaborate with putting Jews in the ovens." I added the word intentionally, to suggest this case: how about the people who made the ovens, without knowing how they would be (mis)used? In a sense, they cooperated in the evil, the evil could not have been done without those ovens, unless of course the Nazi's had chosen another method. In the same way, I believe that no one at Caritas will intentionally cooperate wth the abortionists.
But your response, that admirably you would quit your job, brings up the very pertinent case that has been suggested on several of these blog comments: maybe it is no longer possible to run a Catholic or any type of Christian hospital in our nation, given the economics and the evil laws trying to be forced on all hospitals and their employees. Maybe the Archdiocese, or the Church, should get out of the business. That would be a shame, but it might be necessary. Some Catholic parishes, maybe other congregations, have started 'parish nurse' programs, to get back to the more personal, more grassroots, less institutional, less expensive works of mercy that hospitals started out as. But this is above my pay grade.

The difference in your response about collaborating with putting Jews in the ovens - if the Cardinal entered a 'partnership' with the Germans that agreed to refer the Jews to be shuffled the Jews onto the trains Auschwitz- that would be the collaboration with evil of this Cardinal.

It's an absolute farce to say in order for hospitals to stay open they have to provide abortions. Many, many hospitals in Massachusetts don't provide abortions.

The Cardinal has agreed to provide abortions to 'benefit' financially to win the bid of the contract. He has set up this elaborate referral system to attempt to wash his hands of it. It doesn't fly.

If the partnership included shuffling teenagers to the Man Boy Love Association, you'd have no problem seeing the evil he is covering up with his publicity stunts.

We have no obligation to defend or tolerate collaborations in the rapes and murders of our children and he has no right to ask everyone at Caritas Hospital to engage in this filth for money.

If he can't operate the hospital without doing this, shame on him.

and, p.s.

I'm here to remind you that this was indeed INTENTIONAL. They volunteered to provide abortions.

That's as intentional as it gets.

I'm very surprised and disappointed that Cardinal O'Malley would claim that women requesting abortions would be denied referrals to that end when it is a mandate of the contract. Such obvious untruths are severely impacting his credibility and trustworthiness.

The public relations on this has been a disaster.

If FOCA comes around as I suspect it eventually will, many Bishops and Cardinals have said that Catholic Hospitals will shut down before they provide abortions.

This Cardinal intentionally created a system that would provide abortions. His statement that he is not financially benefiting from the contract is dishonest.

I see on his blog that he refers to pro-lifers who are appalled at this venture as people who are "doing a disservice to the Church".

This is what they did to sex abuse victims who complained about their corruption.

I too am deeply troubled and confused.

It seems as though the Cardinal will now seek the opinion of Fr. Tad at the bioethics center whose integrity I trust and I look forward to reading his opinion.

As a practicing anesthesiologist at a Catholic Hospital (in another state), I can tell you that this proposal is extremely disconcerting and threatening to Catholic doctors who generally accept positions at Catholic Hospitals at a lower salary for the benefit of never being in a position to compromise our own souls or worse, lead a patient who puts their trust in me to do something that will compromise their soul.

I was educated in Boston and have many friends who are their wits end over this venture.

A primary care physician is always the first point of entry in a patient with a crisis pregnancy in the system. In this system, the primary care physician will be forced to refer her out of the network.

If it were true that Caritas as a tertiary primary care facility will deny abortion referrals, this would be a violation of the contract.

Just found this quote from the Pilot which seems to adjudicate the matter and not in the Cardinal's favor:

“Those providers are anticipated to include the six Caritas Christi Hospitals and approximately 33 other hospitals and 66 community health centers,” the statement said.

“Caritas Christi Health Care wishes to make clear that at all times and in all cases we will observe the Ethical and Religious Directives of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops and the basic principles of Catholic moral theology,” said the statement.

The document referenced by the Caritas statement “Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services,” states that Catholic health care institutions, “are not to provide abortion services, even based upon the principle of material cooperation.”

Material cooperation is a Catholic moral term that refers to actions of cooperation with evil that can sometimes be permitted if there are proportionate reasons.

“In this context, Catholic health care institutions need to be concerned about the danger of scandal in any association with abortion providers,” the document states.

Caritas acknowledged in the statement that applying for participation in the state health plan is “a complex public policy process.’’

C McKinley - THANK YOU!

Gaudete - give up on the practice of medicine because of this? Really? Where does that leave healthcare? Who will defend those who cannot defend themselves? Do you realize that if we did that everytime there was any evil in any area of business, we as Catholics folded, the world would have been lost a long time ago. I am very sorry to hear that you are so ready to let evil reign. All it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing... which is what you're encouraging Catholics to do.