Obama meets with president of US bishops

Cardinal George is probably the smartest of the US Bishops, with his 2 doctorates. I hope he gave the Prez a stern lecture. From the 2 brief statements, it doesn't sound like it was all hugs and kisses.

I'm sure President O'bama told the Cardinal he'd be willing to "Pony Up" much more money the help the poor and impoverished in this country than the previous Southern Baptist Administration. Gaudete the Bishop doesn't' "have standing" to "lecture" the President of the United States.... The President isn't Catholic and the Bishop can't tell political leaders what to do....

Man, I can see it coming from gaudete, KJR, proud2b, et al. Tell us how the President of the United States should bow down to the head of the US Conference of Bishops. We've already got gaudete speaking of "a stern lecture". The President answers to the people of the United States. He answers to the cardinal archbishop of Chicago only in that George is a citizen of the United States. I would think a "lecture" from some clergyman would be less than smart, and utterly counterproductive for the bishop. These people, after all, supported war and torture, and their record vis a vis pedophilia is, shall we say, less than exemplary. At any rate, this president has offered real solutions for the problem of unwanted pregnancies. The bishops can be part of the solution, or they can continue to be part of the problem. I'm sure they'll choose the latter - they always seem to - but maybe some of them will choose otherwise.

Onthe left, JB,

Cardinal George does not speak just for himself, he speaks for (most) of the 60 million Catholics in the country. Perhaps "lecture" was a rhetorical over-speak. But I hope the Card. did make it clear to the Prez. how disappointed orthodox Catholics are with his stances on abortion, embryonic stem cell killing, etc.

Ontheleft, who are you talking about "these people" who "supported" "war and torture?" That is pure fiction. The Catholic Church, beginning with Pope John Paul II, continued by Benedict XVI, and the whole American hierarchy was against the war in Iraq, if that's what you are referring to. Much against the opinion of many lay Catholics. The Pope and the bishops often badgered the Prez (Bush) with their disagreement. If you say, 'well, that is not as well known as the Church's stance on abortion,' blame your friends in the mainstreammedia, who only
report either the exciting, sexy things, or things that will make religion in general or Catholicism in particular look bad. And war is one thing (some are just), but torture is another. Name one Catholic who was/is in favor of it. Prove it, or drop your baseless accusations.

Posted by gaudete March 18, 09 10:39 AM

Gaudete, the Catholic Church in the person of its hierarchy and its membership supported George Bush in the 2004 elections, and in 2006, the Bishops Conference made no mention of the war until after the November midterms. By 2004, the death toll among civilians in Bush's war of aggression was estimated to exceed 100,000, and the use of torture at Abu Ghraib and other sites was well known. Your hierarchy chose to throw its support behind the architect of the war and its accompanying policy of torture, and a principal player in that was Cardinal Josef Ratzinger. Make no mistake - in supporting Bush, the Church supported his policies. You can try to rationalize otherwise, but that basic reality remains true.

As for the naming of one Catholic in favor of torture, a survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press Oct. 12-24, 2005, conducted nationally among 2,006 adults asked the following: "Do you think the use of torture against suspected terrorists in order to gain important information can often be justified, sometimes be justified, rarely be justified, or never be justified?"

Among the total public were the following:
Often - 15%
Sometimes - 31%
Rarely - 17%
Never - 32%
Don't know/refused - 5%

Among Roman Catholics:
Often - 21%
Sometimes - 35%
Rarely - 16%
Never - 26%
Don't know/refused - 4%

Finally, in case you're curious, among those listed as "Secular":
Often - 10%
Sometimes - 25%
Rarely - 16%
Never - 41%
Don't know/refused - 4%

Is that proof enough for you, Gaudete? Based on those numbers, it can be presumed that, given as few as 30 million adult Catholics in the US, some 56%, or 17 million Catholics favor the frequent use of torture. Baseless accusation? Pure fiction? Would you still like to maintain those assertions?