Pope’s condom remark stirs controversy

I see... so the fact that NYC gives away condoms and has triple the AIDS rate of the rest of the US is proof that condoms only make the matter worse.

Furthermore the fact that the sun comes up on one side of NYC and goes down on the other is proof that NYC is the center of the universe and the sun revolves around it.

Clearly no one told the west African country of Senegal that condoms do not work. Because they distribute them like crazy and their AIDS rate is a mere 2%. They should get rid of the condoms, maybe it will fall to 0%!

But really, what's the big deal. Everyone dies eventually. At least the church is saving your soul from eternal damnation... unless it's wrong about that, too.

The Pope's words will surely ruffle a few feathers from predictable quarters.

I've heard many in Africa say that they wish to be sent vaccines, rather than a flood of condems. Sure, easier said than done (and far more expensive) but surely we could have done a lot more good with vaccines than with just a blanketing of condems as we have there in the last 20 years.
If condem distribution and use is so needed and effective, why is the spread of HIV in Africa shown no signs of slowing given condem use there? Sure, some aren't using condems because there is still a cultural stigma with it in parts of Africa, in addition to the Church's teaching.

But perhaps too because the birth control industry has so many in their back pocket, believing their unquestioning orthodoxy that condems always work, always have, always will if only the backwards thinking Catholic Church would embrace them.

Notice how Harry Knox misconstrued what the Pope said: the Pope did not "reject proven methods" as Knox asserts but states that we "RISK worsening the problem." That is to say, that if we simply throw condems at the problem, we invite more sexual activity amongst infected people who may continue to spread the disease, regardless of the best intentions to use condems correctly. That is not a denial of effectiveness but an assertion that there are unintended consequences and a need for a deeper engagement with the problem.

We've tried this condem blanketing for 2 decades; it hasn't worked. It's time to try a radical approach.

Wow, the "humanisation of sexuality"--instead of treating people like objects for their own pleasure. Shocking thought--the kind of radical thought needed on AIDS in Africa.

Justin, is your misspelling of CONDOM an intentional political slam?

The Pope and the Catholic Church (a church that protected pedophiles) are so far out of touch with reality it's pathetic. Their teachings promote over-population and now will promote the spread of HIV.

This is the church that excommunicated the doctors in Brazil who saved the life of a 9 year girl who was raped by her step father and ended up pregnant with twins. (If she had attempted to carry to term she would not have survived.)

How irrelevant can a church leader and church be?

It's not just pathetic and it's scary -- because people will suffer and die because of this nonsense.

this is so stupid.a personality like pope himself demoting the use of condoms is really very bad.monogamy is a prime reason for aids control but that alone cannot copeup with the speed with which this deadly desease is spreading.i think pope should reverse the statement he gave.

Bill Donahue sounds truly sick. Can't he resort to discussion without inflammatory phrases like "promiscuous giving away of condoms" and "condom worship". Nobody is giving them away like that (I assume he means on the pecker, since 'promiscuous' can't reasonably modify the highly laudable act of giving), and nobody is' worshiping' condoms (is he confusing the Pope with a condom? That's new. And does he need to demonize New York City (I know there are Jews there, Bill, but still...)

Bill Donohue"s argument about NYC's condom program is classic post hoc propter hoc nonsense.

Justin's argument is also nonsense. He seems to think that we already have an AIDS vaccine. Also he should learn how to spell condom -- or perhaps he thinks
he'll be condemned to Hell if he uses the word.

As far as the pope is concerned, if he believes what he is saying, he is incredibly naive. If he doesn't, he is truly an evil man.

Condoms=Bad
Pedophilia=Good

Wow Justin, your a moron. Yea, all they do is throw condoms at the problem, yup that is all, nothing more. No one tries to educate these people, break the cultural taboo and customs and you know, make people understand how aids spreads. Abstance really works for the huge number of women who get raped by men who have aids and think it will cure them to have sex with virgins. I mean Abstance really works for the women who are never given any education at all and are expects to serve thier men whom they are given to. The teachings of the church and thier rock solidly being on the front line of the battle with Aids in Africa are doing just great now huh. Abstance only education, never works, it is proven time and time again. Justin, you are just a complete tool with no knowledge of what you speak. You talk like there is just a massive swingers party going on in Africa and boy you are damn wrong.
The Catholic Church just committing yet another sin against this planet. I believe the Catholic Church is the greatest evil on the face of the planet.

Nicely said 'Jame E. Stevenson'. I agree that the Catholic Church is 'the greatest evil on the face of the planet'. And hopefully some day, people will learn they can believe in a god and love a god, all on their own and not be told what to love and what god to love.

One step forward, two steps back

Changing sexual behavior is the most obvious and simple solution to reducing aids and at the same time the global population. Problem is; Human Beings are sex machines. We evolved this way to preserve the pair-bond neccesary to maintain our new hunter life style. Last time I looked there were 6.7 billions souls on this rock and climbing (rock climbing: get it?). Doesn't look to me like sexual behavior has been influenced one bit by dogma, propoganda, or common sense. If anything, its getting worse. If it will provide me extra room on this planet - I say strap it on and be human.

It's really difficult to grant this Pope or his hierarchy any moral authority, given their support of right-wing policies, given their support of pedophilia, given their apparent lust for money and power. Condom use is one tool, and a very important tool, in the fight against HIV/AIDS. But, of course, these corrupt old men don't care - it conflicts with an idiotic encyclical penned some 40+ years ago, an encyclical whose principal purpose was an attempt to restore what was seen as lost papal authority in the wake of Vatican II. Again, that lust for money and power.

And then, there's Bill Donahue - the Rush Limbaugh of Roman Catholicism. I'm genuinely curious, and this goes particularly to KJR, gaudete, proud2b, Justin, et al - this guy remains a very visible spokesman for your Church. Do you approve of that? I ask because he has a history of spouting hatred and self-righteous piety, as well as an insistence that all in America obey him. He seems to see anything short of obedience to him as anti-Catholicism, he's a raging homophobe, and a number of his statements reveal a marked antisemitism. So I am indeed curious as to how you view this guy.

Yes, Danby, I believe you are right that "condom" is the correct spelling--"condem" is too often the mistaken spelling in the US, while the UK and other English speaking countries tend to side more often with the correct "condom" spelling.

I notice that a number of you did not even attempt to counter the substance of the Pope's (or my) arguments...

Abby merely details a laundry list of grievances without talking about the actual topic. The Vatican and the Brazilian bishops apologized for the situation. People are beginning to move on from the hurt. You ought to, too. If you think overpopulation is the problem, takes 6 billion and divide it by the square acrage of Texas. Next, ask yourself why in Europe in the next 40 years, born babies will cease to subjectively understand the term "uncle", "aunt" or "cousin" and wonder why the Romanian government is currently PAYING citizens to have more children. That ought make you ask yourself a few questions. Abstinence does not in any way support the spread of AIDS, it does precisely the opposite.
Mike Falkoff, your irrelevant Jew comment is below your dignity and everyone reading this. By "condom worship" Donahue, in his firey way, is responding to the widely held notion that condoms are the surest, best answer--that kind of orthodoxy about condoms (that I aludded to also) is what he means by "worship."

James Stevenson, were you actually going to tell me why I'm wrong or just call me names? The cultural taboos that you speak of I alluded to, though you enumerated more of them--thank you for that. The Church and its missionaries throughout Africa are doing great work to help the poor and hungry with charity and economic development. I made no mention of any kind of "massive swingers party", YOU did--that weakens your argument. Nor did I say "abstinence only" as a solution but simply that it is the only full proof form of prevention. (I know you get nervous at sexual moralizing but WE ARE talking about people's lives here!) What the Pope is pointing to is a more fully human notion of sexuality about the whole of a person with their needs and dignity in mind.

I don't why any of you would object so much to that or is just that you get morally allergic when anyone begins to talk about sex differently than you understand it?

Onthe left,
Bill Donahue is not my style, but every 'team' probably needs one, as yours has the ACLU, NPR, Bill Maher, etc. He's outrageous, but sometimes you need outrageous to fight outrageous.

I think what the pope meant about re-humanizing sexuality is the exact opposite of what NakedApe wrote. "sex machine." I know he's half-facetious, but even as a metaphor calling humans "machines" denigrates human persons. Machines don't have free will, as in self-control over sex, so ergo humans don't either. Same with comparing humans to animals, who truly have no higher purpose than to reproduce, and have instinct but no free will or self control. He is trying to get people to look at each other as more than just sex objects, who are there to meet my needs. Are those such ignoble goals?

It's important to realize WHY the Pope and the Catholic Church are maintaining their stance against turning to condoms as the solution to the problem of AIDS in Africa:
1. Condoms don't work: while they may somewhat (but not completely) reduce the risk for the transmission of certain sexually transmitted infections in each individual sexual act, they also give "false hope" and in doing so, increase the number of sexual acts because people engage in sexual acts thinking they are "safe" when in fact, they are not. This is evidenced by the lack of change in the rate of transmission in countries where condoms are given out freely. It is important to note that in Uganda, the rate of transmission of HIV was reduced by 50% when a new abstinence program was introduced (the ABC program) that only recommended condoms as a last resort.
2. The Pope and the Catholic Church affirm the dignity of the person and the sacredness of the sexual act. The sexual act is far more sacred than just a physical act - it involves and affects the entire person. Sex is meant to be an act of love through which a husband and wife give their entire selves to one another. Contraception reduces the sexual act to merely a physical act and encourages the spouses to use one another rather than express love. This is the best way to break down a marriage and therefore the family because marriage is the foundation of the family. As the family is the basic unit of society, there is no society without the family. The Pope, in saying that condoms aren't the answer, is supporting the idea that these people who have suffered so much deserve better than contraception. They deserve education and love, and contraception only encourages infidelity and the continuation of horrible practices that have plagued Africa and perpetuated the spread of AIDS. It isn't an answer, it's a bandaid - a bandaid that does not work and instead exacerbates the already bad situation.
I encourage all of you to look more into the issue of WHY Catholics believe what we do on the issue of contraception. Additionally, all of those of you who wrongly accused the Catholic Church of "supporting pedophelia" need to look into that one as well. Individuals make mistakes (in this case, HORRIBLE mistakes), but that does not mean that the organization to which they belong supports these practices. We need to distinguish between and individual and an organization. It is also important to note that the incidence of pedophelia within the Catholic Church per capita is no higher than ANY other organization (Christian denominations, schools, athletic teams, etc.). This is in no way meant to diminish the absolutely terrible crimes that occurred or the people who suffered from them, but it is necessary to note that it is not the Catholic Church who has supported or encouraged it, but individual people who made terrible decisions.

OntheLeft,

You're damn right I support Donahe and for that matter Limbaugh. We need loud voices like theirs to counteract the garbage that comes left wing zealots and bigots like you, the ACLU, Bill Maher, Olberman, Chris Matthews, Jeanine Garafolo, etc.

I'll say it again, it's ok for your side to spew all kinds of garbage against the Church, conservatives, and anyone that disagrees with you. You still feel like you are tolerant and politically correct. But as soon as we speak our side, you start screaming things like bigots, hate mongers and homophobe. Grow up you bunch of hypocrites. I am tired of your whining and nonsense.

"given their support of pedophilia" - Again, more of the same drivel from you. If you want to point fingers here, look at the fact that most of these cases were gays hiding in the priesthood molesting teenage boys, not young children. Also look at the much higher rate of abuse in public schools and other institutions and you will see that the Church actually has a much better record.

Look, the whole point of the Pope's statement was that humans are not mindless animals or sex machines that cannot control ourselves and need a piece of latex because of these urges. He is trying to everyone that we should have more self respect than that, and that as human beings we are capable of controlling ourselves and living monogamous lives. We as humans have a greater dignity that animals and should not allow ourselves to act like that.

But you left wing zealots apparently prefer to be told that you are mindless animals that cannot resist any urge and because you are animals you should be allowed to sleep around as much as possible. And since you can't resist any urge much like monkeys, here is a piece of latex to protect you. Typical left wing belief - get into trouble and then expect someone like the government to bail you out.

Feel free to choose that option, as for me I'll take self respect and dignity and go with the pope.

Thanks to people like B16 I am really ashamed of being a catholic.
That guy proved several times that he does not know what he is talking about.
Honestly, I don't give a damn what he says anymore.

Following Katie's (and pope's) logic, we should not buckle up while we drive,
since a false sense of security the seat belts provide can encourage us
to drive more offensively. And as we all know number of people dying
in car accidents skyrocketed after seat belts were distributed, er, introduced.