Miami priest Cutie joins Episcopal Church

Conservative Catholics will probably say good riddance, but I think this is a sad, sad day indeed for Catholicism, and a joyous one for the Episcopal faith.

Of course the Catholic Church isn't going to change its policy on married clergy for one priest. That's not the point.

The point is for people who care about Catholicism to start thinking honestly about the priests it will never have, as well as the ones they stand to lose, because of its insistence on an unmarried clergy.

For me, a priest's marital status is a trivial matter compared to the Good News. I just wish more people felt this way.

Looks like Gotcha! Christianity in Miami......I would have thought that the oncoming Episcopal schism would have motivated it's bishops to be more cautious. Hard to buy Cutie's weekend of soul searching as his primary motivation to "convert" to another denomination. Looks more like a horny adolescent running away so he can play. The only thing missing in the picture with the leering bishops was them giving the finger! Sad for the Catholics. Undignified for the Episcopals.

This man clearly left the Catholic Church for all the right reasons: love and devotion to a woman and to be able to serve God and Christian Church. Why in the world are so many people upset about this? This has set back ecumenical relations?

The Catholic Church is led by narrow minded leaders who can accurately be compared to the Pharisees in the time of Jesus. They clearly are not familiar with the Spirit of Law nor are they at all acquainted wih the greatest gift God gave to humankind: Freedom of choice.

Whatever one thinks about the debate regarding priestly celibacy in the Catholic church, and there is a legitimate debate, this young man seems emotionally unstable, and i agree with the commenter at Episcopal cafe that it unseemly and foolishly risky for the Episcopalians to grab Romeo off the free agent wire so hastily. What happens if/when he breaks up with the current gal, to which denomination does he go then? Or if he breaks with her, no other lass will have him, will he want to return to his Catholic home? Can't tell with someone so flighty, someone willing to answer to the name Fr. Oprah. I think the Episcopalians were effecting charitable revenge for the defection of one of their Florida bishops to Rome. But at least he and all other Episcopalian priests who return to Rome go through an extensive human, emotional, doctrinal and spiritual preparation period. Adios, amigo. Bueno suerte.

It's disturbing that he did not jump ship until he was "caught" via the pictures. This is not about celibacy...it's about someone who did not appear to thoughtfully consider his options in the first place. And what's up with the Episcopal Church just scooping him up? As a parishioner, I would hardly count on this guy to give me any mature advice or help. He acted with the cognitive fore-thought of a 16 year old.

As if the Episcopal Church didn't have enough problems, they take on this guy's narcissism, lack of authenticity and ethics and character issues. Don't let the door hit you...

It appears to me that we have lost one of our sheep. I hope he finds his way home.

Typical episcopal church doing, I was raped by our choir director along with 20 other choir boys during the 1960's in the Reading mass, church, They will never change

The Episcopal church is self destructing over its total disregard for the teachings found in the Scriptures. Suddenly for this Church, there is no such thing as sin anymore--anything goes. So what is the point of the Redemption if we are all sinless, or even of the existence of the Episcopal Church itself. This bishop showed very poor judgment here.

I tend to think that Florida, California and the Vatican are not really part of Earth, so I discount the meaning or consequences of events in those regions, for the institutions and beliefs of Earth. Showboating? yes. They exist primarily for TV, and you don't take communion from a machine.

Sure, he broke a promise. Just like Jim Baker, John Edwards, Bill Clinton, Prince Charles, ...

Oh, I forgot Geoghan and Shanley.

The Catholic Church has solutions to the Padre's problems summed up in the age old law of retailing - (re) location, (re) location, (re) location

(1 Timothy 4:1-3) 4 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,  by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron;  forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth.
Hmmmmm....

How can someone else judge the interior spiritual struggle of another the way some in this article have done?
Judge not lest you be judged.

Posted by stevedmd May 29, 09 08:17 AM

Good question, Steve. If religion (not just Episcopal, but Catholic and others as well) cannot provide redemption, then what indeed is the purpose? Because religion cannot provide "redemption". Oh, its heads like to make you think they can - it's a great living - but they can't. They've tried selling indulgences, waging wars of conquest and forced conversions, inquisitions, etc., forever it seems, but these are really political and not at all spiritual pursuits. Now, for those who practice religion, it can provide some level of comfort if you will, perhaps inspiration to help one navigate this journey. So can art, music, literature, athletics and any number of inspirational pursuits. Any form of spirituality (not to be confused with organized religion - the two may or may not intersect) can help practitioners. Ultimately, the purpose of organized religion seems to be its own self-perpetuation. On an individual level, it's pretty much up to the practitioner to decide.

This is so sad. Is there any integrity in the life of the church and in the people who seek to serve the church? People (priest and bishop) make a joke / mockery of what we are called to do. So this guy, if he were not caught would still be saying Mass yet all the while disavowing his vows. Now he jumps ship to another church that is willing to ignore the lack of honesty this guy has so clearly demonstrated. Is it any wonder why people are abandoning the mainline churches? We bring shame upon ourselves and there is no truth in us.

This seems like a hasty decision. He broke a vow; nevertheless, he can be forgiven and reconciled, but he chose not to be reconciled. So, he "jumps ship" and the new ship is willing to take him so quickly, in a public way, with photographers, etc.
Normally there's a catechumen period of study and prayer, but this took place in only a few weeks. It seems too hasty both for him and for the Episcopal Church. Let's keep praying for him.

As an Episcopalian, it does not bother me that Cutié was accepted as a priest so quickly in his transfer. The Episcopal Church is essentially Catholic Light. If you take away celibacy and allow marriage, then there is very little difference between an Episcopal priest and a Catholic priest, especially if you compare the rather orthodox "High Episcopal" tradition to the rather liberal "American Catholic" movement. Remember that the Anglican / Episcopal Church was Roman Catholic until a few hundred years ago. I understand why Catholics might be upset about this, but I do not understand why Episcoplians (or anyone else) would be.

I agree with you L. I add to that that he is constantly lying. I am not discoraged by any of that. The church founded by Jesus more than 2000 years ago it's being Purified. And it will stand until the end of times.

Larry Jackson gives us his profound exegesis of 1Tim4:1-3. But Larry, no one, including Casanova Cutie, was forced to remain unmarried. He freely? chose celibacy when he was ordained a Catholic priest. I write freely?, because if he did not choose freely, then either he was/is a liar, or he was unusually immature and conflicted for someone in their 20's, 30's, however old he was at ordination.

Now let's try on 1Cor7:7-40 on for size, especially v. 8 "I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I [St. Paul].
v. 27 "Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife?seek not a wife." vv. 32-33 "He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord, but he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife." KJV

I'm not knocking marriage, i'm glad my parents were, but marriage is for most people, but not for everyone.

I'm usually the first to belittle columnist James Carroll of this newspaper for his having left the Missionary Society of Saint Paul the Apostle order (Paulist Fathers) but next to Fr. Cutie, Mr. Carroll is a paragon of virtue.

Mr. Carroll was ordained in 1969 and left the priesthood in 1974, which connotes a person who realizes rather early on that he has made a mistake and moves to correct it. Mr. Carroll didn't marry his wife, Alexandra Marshall, until 1977.

Alberto Cutie was ordained in 1995 and has decided to give up his vocation, at least in the Catholic Church, in 2009 after supposedly living a celibate life for approximately fourteen years. I say supposedly because of this item regarding is paramour, Ruhama Canellis, the single parent of two children aged 15 and 5. "Records show that Ruhama Canellis was once married to a David Hope Norton in Florida in 1994 but divorced him two years later. The couple had just one child. It is not known who the father of the 5-year-old child is, rumors suggest Alberto Cutie may indeed be the father of Ruhama Canellis's child." If true, Cutie has been living a lie for six years or more.

I hope the the Episcopal Bishop wasn't drooling too much about the anticipated Hispanic conversions to the dwindling numbers those professing the Episcopal faith that he was blind to the flaws of his newest media star.

Good riddance to bad rubbish!

It seems unfortunate that Fr. Cutie and the Episcopal Diocese of Southeast Florida didn't articulate more about the "two year discernment process" (alluded to in the diocesan press release) in which Cutie decided to become an Episcopalian. Because of the high profile nature of Fr. Cutie, it might have served to abate the appearance that this was done without much integrity. Perhaps this was done with more integrity than it appears on face value. Of course, the Roman Archbishop stated he had no knowledge that this was happening so that doesn't make the process look good...

So many people on here have said it so well, already. To me, the problem was the lies he was telling to everyone. He should have left his post long ago if he wanted to be with someone. He could have switched churches with some dignity, rather than having this idiotic display of running away when he got caught. How long was he going to continue to lie to God, the people at the church and the girlfriend? He seems rather wimpy to not be able to take it as wrongdoing, but instead turns it into an issue that is a problem of the church. I am not Catholic, so I don't necessarily agree with all of their rules, but if that is the oath he took, then that is the oath he should stick to.
It definitely does not surprise me that the Episcopal church has taken him in.

Orthodoxy had the saying freedom of choice, which is indeed what God prescribed for us. People get to choose to be in not only the Catholic faith, they have the choice of entering priesthood. The rules are well laid out ahead of time, so that a prospective student of God may or may not choose this lifestyle. Jesus himself never married, he was following God to the fullness, and it is expected the same from people who choose to follow God and give us his good word. It's about self sacrifice, Jesus chose to sacrifice his own life for us, he did not have to. Thus is the same with this faith, you have the choice enter a seminary knowing full well the sacrifice that is asked upon you.

It'd be more meaningful if he'd switched churches BEFORE getting caught. Otherwise, this really shows a lack of integrity, just akin to any politician that steps down only after a scandal is exposed. If the Episcopalians had any integrity, they'd refuse to let him in. Do you really want a priest that is willing to change their beliefs so quickly and jumped ship to you, not because of any true religious conviction but because your religion will let him marry?

Being a Catholic myself, I have no mixed feelings about Priests being celebate. We who grew up with the Catholic Faith know that it's the commitment each Priest takes. And it is a very serious VOW. I am very proud of all Catholic Priests who cherish this vow. Good Luck to Mr. Cutie, I wonder how committed he was to the Catholic Faith when he so quickly left it. I'm not judging, just thinking. Personally if he was unable to commit to his vow, then he shouldn't be a Priest. But wonder why he totally left the Catholic faith and how so easily he became an Epistical Priest? I want my Priest to be true to the core of my faith. So thank-you Mr. Cutie.

First, being received into the Episcopal church does not mean that Mr. Cutie will automatically become a peist in that church. Reing received only means that he does not have to be re-confirmed. Anyone who has been confirmed in the Roman Catholic church is eligible to be received. He will still need to pass through a process for ordination if that is the route he chooses and the issue of aviolation o trust will need to be dealt with.

Next, celebacy is not the only issue that keeps the two denominations separate. There are a number of theological and liturgical nuances. Mr. Cutie will need to become welll-versed in a long history of Anglican tradition and teaching.

I find it odd that an organization that forbids it's members to marry, sees fit to make itself an expert on the topic. It's 2009 and this should be a wake up call for not just the catholic church, but for all faiths, that love is love. And humans need it to survive (and please don't give me that god's love stuff). We need companionship from the one we love, and if your going to make yourself overseers of marriage, then you should at least have some experience about the subject.

It's like a vacum cleaner salesman selling jet planes, seriously.

spacenut,

I strongly urge you to look up Christopher West's analysis of Pope John Paul 2's theology of the Body. Pope JP2 had a genuinely clear understanding of not only marriage but the beautiful gift shared by a bride and his wife.

Ann,

Nicely stated. The last thing the Catholic Church needs is more mediocre Priests.

1) Relgion writers should at least know something about religion. He is not changing "denominations". There are many Prostestant denominations. He is switching religions.

2) His switch confuses me. There are places for ministry for non-priests in the Catholic church, and lots of priests leave their vocation. For a Catholic priest to switch from Catholicism to a Prostestant denomination suggests that he believed in Transubstantiation one day and didn't the next. This is not a sign of a clear thinker.

He broke his ordination vows with the Catholic church and with a hop, skip and a jump he becomes an Episcopalian? How can someone who took his vows so lightly be trusted as to what his true intentions are and if he will find the rules of his new found faith so easy to ignore? Those best served by this action are he and his fiancee', not the church or the faithful. How selfish! I was raised in a mixed family, my father was Catholic and my mother Episcopalian. Neither side was willing to budge on the matter of what religion the children would be raised, so, each parent had me baptized in their church behind the other's back. 50+ years later and they still have been unable to let it go. Thus, I attend neither church.

Very disappointing. I think entry #2 says a lot and I believe passion has taken a hold of him, thus he can't think clearly or see the truth of his actions. It would be more respectful for him to ask to leave the Church and remain a lay person instead of jumping into another church that allows him to get away with playing around. Very hypocritical of him. I think he will be misleading a lot of people by his actions. I am Catholic and will pray for him, since I would wish for him to see with clarity in the future. I am hopeful God will show this to him, in His time.

Spacenut wrote @ 2:11pm

"I find it odd that an organization that forbids it's members to marry, sees fit to make itself an expert on the topic."

Spacenut no organization, or at least the Catholic Church, forbids its members from marrying. The vast majority of Catholics are married. Even men who wish
to be ordained priests are not forbidden to marry, they freely choose to give up that beautiful and enjoyable privilege, for the sake of the Kingdom. When the Church teaches about marriage, it does so drawing from God's word, Sacred Scripture, and also drawing upon the accumulated wisdom of 2000 years of experience of its members, married and not married.

Before anyone get's all excited, Father Cutie will have to go through a long process before her can be ordained into the priesthood of the Episcopal Church. He's a human, like all of us, and we all fall short of the glory of God. I don't know what you all want from him? One of the things people liked about him was his approachableness, something that stemmed from his humanity.

Oh and as for the "schism" in the Episcopal Church. I've been through so many of these "schisms" it is ridiculous. In America, people change denominations so often that it is sometimes comical. In my lifetime alone, there have been these threats of schism when we ordained women, when we elevated women to Bishops and when we ordained the first openly gay priests and many more over changes to our philosphy - guess what the Episcopal Church is still here. I'm not worried. Welcome to the Episcopal Church Father Cutie. We are an unruly lot with a great diveristy of beliefs, but we are still a family and all are welcome as long as they respect that each person are searching for a relationship with God and that might men something different to each of them.

what is wrong with this.I do not like the girl he choose. but would it had been better if had been caught with an underage girl? LEAVE IT ALONE its time for the catholic church to get with the times

All of us fall short of the glory of God. I don't know what people want from him? He stumbled in his life. We all stumble. He's trying to find his way now. He might find that the Episcopal Church is not the way he needs to walk in his relationship with God,; he might find it will help him grow closer to God. Are priests now supposed to be demi-gods? As for him being an Episcopal Church, this is just the beginning of the process. It will be several years before he will be ordained, if at all, in the Episcopal Church.

I think the best description is tacky. He was apparently publically displaying his violation of his vows of celibacy. But, he's a media personality. When your "show" gets cancelled, as it surely would have if he had been suspended by the Catholic Church, you work to get "picked up" by another network. Of course, it would have been classier for him to chose to admit his failure to live up to his Roman Catholic vows as a priest, request laicization, and THEN become a Episcopal Priest. Why the Episcopal Church moved so quickly to embrace him is beyond me. Methinks an act of contrition was necessary first.

As one who, as a lay person, made a similar journey of faith I am shocked but not surprised at the uncharitable and hostile comments of some Roman Catholics. You do not know what is in anyone's heart, or what degree of self-examination went into his decision. Judge not, lest ye be judged said our Lord. Moreover, you are hypocrites. EWTN runs a regular series featuring converts to Rome who are encouraged by the former Protestant minister host to criticize their former churches. Glass houses, folks.

Never mind this guy's lack of integrity, the real point here is that the joke that is the Episcopal Church just keeps getting funnier.

It seems that this man was doing a fair amount of good as a Catholic priest reaching people who do not typically listen to what priests have to say, which is itself a tragedy. But the Episcopal Church he's joininig originally came into being because Henry VIII wanted to divorce his wife and the Church wouldn't grant an annulment---oh, the irony.
No one is judging this poor man's soul--we are evaluating questionable, rushed, not very well thought out actions.
The timing of this is far too suspect and far too fast---and yes, for all the wrong reasons. He's been in discussions with other denominations, not just Episcopal. How good does it make Episcopalians feel that he chose them over other denominations when he clearly did it quickly out of convenience and expediency? I realize he needs a year of formation but he can just parachute into an Episcopal parish this Sunday and start preaching? Wow, what extraordinary standards of ministry the Episcopal Church has developed.
He could have converted to an Easter Rite church and still be under Rome. But nope, didn't investigate that either.
If this man were a man of careful reflection and spiritual integrity, he would have called himself away from the priesthood 2 years ago when he started dating this woman saying to himself, his bishop, his brother priests and religious and his God, "I can no longer carry out my duties as I have pledged to for life." Priests go on leaves of absence all the time. It happens. But this man didn't do that. He figured he wasn't breaking his vows unless the rest of the world knew it. Also absurd thinking, disinterested in the Nicene Creed he commanded his flock to recite each Sunday "of things seen and unseen."
And his girlfriend? Well, actually, last week, she was a girlfriend but now he calls her a fiancee. Did she want to become an Episcopolian or was it just his idea? Did they agree to it? Again, not much thoughtful reflection on these issues. She happens to be divorced, which is unfortunate. She had a baby through that marriage but she had another baby outside it. She's also been cited for operating businesses without licenses on 4 different occassions. So she's no Beatrice leading him to true enlighenment nor are these signs of a real stable, lifelong commitment in marriage.
These are the actions of a media adored, immature man intent on dodging what he got caught for. But he got caught by the One who knows and counts the most, a long time ago.

JFM @ 4:12 wrote:

"As one who, as a lay person, made a similar journey of faith I am shocked but not surprised at the uncharitable and hostile comments of some Roman Catholics. You do not know what is in anyone's heart, or what degree of self-examination went into his decision."

The flaw in this quote is to equate "uncharitable" with "hostile". Are some Catholics (and others, no one asked for anyone's denominational bona fides)
"hostile" to what what Alberto has done? Yeah, we're hostile to unchastity, to pre/non-marital sex, which is contrary to the Bible, hostile to someone 'married' to the Church engaging in adultery agaist his 'Spouse.' But that does not equate with being "uncharitable." Charity is love, and loving someone, including Alberto, means caring for him so much that you are willing to tell him the unpleasant truth
that he is endangering his immortal soul. Not nice, not kind, but charitable; the three are not synonyms, contrary to what our dysfunctional culture thinks. Don't really need to know "what's in his heart;" even he probably doesn't know; just going by his actions. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Seems to me that this was really about adultery, not celibacy. Had he not been caught, who knows how long Cutie would have gone on practicing adultery while publicly preaching against it? (Reminds me of the former governor of New York.)Apparently Cutie never really believed in the faith he was preaching or he would have chosen a different course of action. There are many former priests who had the moral fortitude to leave the priesthood and then get married. They found a way to live with honesty and integrity without giving up their faith.

Weather or not he is married is a choice that is his.

"Before anyone get's [sic] all excited, Father Cutie will have to go through a long process before her [sic] can be ordained into the priesthood of the Episcopal Church."

I just read through some more of these comments, and found the above gem, along with several similar to it. They make absolutely no sense. I don't know the ins and out of specifically Anglican theology, but I'm conversant with Christian theology, and the only way I can see the above statement being true is if the Anglican Church does not recognize the validity of Roman Catholic Orders - which is absurd on its face, and is simply unbelievable.

If this guy has been accepted into the Anglican communion, then he would be a priest in good standing in the communion, unless his canonical status was dubious before he bailed into the ECUSA. Priests are ordained into the priesthood of Jesus Christ, not into the priesthood of this or that church - what a moronic thing to say! If the Anglicans re-ordain him, they would basically be denouncing the idea of apostolic succession.

Did something astonishing go in within Anglican theology while I was napping, or are the people making these claims just clueless?

"We believe in one only Catholic Church, the apostolical, which cannot be destroyed even though all the world were to take counsel to fight against it, and which gains the victory over all the impious attacks of the heterodox; for we are emboldened by the words of its Master, 'Be of good cheer, I have overcome the world' ."
Alexandria of Alexander,Epistle on the Arian heresy,(A.D. 328),in NPNF2,40
Quote is taken from Corunum apologetics page.

Whether you are pro-Catholic or anti, if you are interested in the issues raised by this whole "affair", you'll find a web-page http://JesusWouldBeFurious.Org/Churchvsex.html most interesting.
It has great insights on precisely WHY the Roman Catholic Church is so hung up about just about everything having to do with sex, i.e. not just women and marriage, but masturbation, birth-control, abortion, homosexuality, "purity", virginity, celibacy and divorce.

OverTheEdge, when a person who has been a priest or minister chooses to become an Episcopal and wishes to act as a priest, he or she must go through a period of "discernment." Working with a bishop, they will spend much time in counseling and in prayer to ensure that they are truly called to serve as a priest and to within the Episcopal doctrine. Once again, many people outside our faith think that it is an "easy faith." Here's something funny for you. If a married Episcopal Priest wants he can convert to Catholism and remained married.

Let us not overlook a simple truth: the Church NEVER allowed priests to marry. Yes, it allowed married men to become priests. However, they couldn't re-marry if they became widowers.

I do not envy Fr. Cutie. This wasn't a "conversion" to me. It was a change of religion to facilitate his personal plans. His conscience will haunt him for the rest of his life. He will see that the Episcopal Church not only allows the priests to divorce but also re-marry in homosexual unions. If he ever was a Catholic, this will be very difficult for him.

Well, so much for the spirit of Ecumenicalism between Episcopalians and Catholics. I realize now that for many Catholics, it was only supposed to be a one way street, with the Episcopalians doing all the understanding. This thread has been a real eye opener. Pretty clear that many Catholics hold Episcopalians in contempt.

>Pretty clear that many Catholics hold Episcopalians in contempt.

Not true. With all due respect, I think that the Episcopalians must first agree among themselves. I can see entire parishes walking away from ECUSA: not becase they find their moral standards too strict. For the same reason some lapsed priests join the ECUSA. Until this exodus is stopped, it will be difficult to talk about any Ecumenism.

George, our General Convention and the vast majority believe something that can generally be called the Gospel of Inclusion. Those who walk a differnet path are not held hostage. They can leave and have. To those of us who hear the call of God as one of inclusion, we remain and are joined by those who also hear that call. Why are you so concerned with what we believe? "Do not try to remove the speck in your brother's eye, until you have removed the log in your own." By the way, when we ordained women, raised them to Bishops and ordained gays, people chose to leave and yet, we are still here - still recieving new menbers who also hear the call to inclusion.

So, EML, inclusion means everyone is welcome without any accountability, and are able to define sinfulness in their own terms, without consequence. So what does the Church stand for? It's not about being judgmental, its about going and sinning no more. Sound familiar.

On another note, I still cannot understand in this day the legitimacy of a church which its dissenting founder declared himself the head of the church, and at the same time, claims many of the "traditions" of the ancient Catholic Church - except for those things that aren't convenient... But that is another story.

>They can leave and have.

Again, this is only partially true. An Episcopalian friend told me that his local Church build by him and the members of his congregation must stay with ECUSA if they want to leave (and they do). There is no such thing as "inclusion" on moral standards. Inclusion of sinners, shoudn't mean that we accept the sin and make it a part of the institution. Christ was accepting sinners with words "go, and sin no more." Ordaining women has little to do with the Apostolic succession invoked by the Episcopalians. Abandoning wife for a homosexual partner is not exactly what Christ meant by "sin no more." I am afraid that you are mixing absolute values with moral relativism. I can always find a church which permits abortion, divorce etc. But then, why do I need such church, if it is permitted anyway in our permissive society?

George, my, my, my... Do you want me to start counting the "sins" of the Catholic Church. You continue to rail against what my denomination is suffering with our beliefs and yet do not account for your own. Imagine how all the Catholics who built their churches feel as parish after parish are shut down. Again, I urge you to worry about your own denominations issues and stop fretting about ours. As for consequences, we deal with consequences all the time. You obviously know little to nothing of our articles of faith. I would refer you to the Book of Common Prayer, but I feel it would be a wasted effort. You have a picture of Episcopalianism and it's clear that facts would disturb your beliefs and therefore you ignore them.

EML, I am not trying to "count the sins", there are plenty of sinners on both sides. After all Christ came to sinners. I am only touching on principles which could help Ecumenism (if it is truly contemplated). I am not a theologian, and I consider personal conversion, so do not take me as an authority on religious matters. One principle would be that sin is a sin, and unrepented sinners should not be consciously elevated to high ecclesiastical positions. Apparently, your Book of Common Prayer doesn't address that. If we start open-ended inclusion without any standards, we may end up nowhere. I want any Christian church to follow Christ and daily struggle on "sin no more". Is it too much to ask? Otherwise we may end up with something similar to Unitarian Universalism, where belief in God is optional.

Actually, George, the Book of Common Prayer does address Sin - both in the Articles of Religion, which can be found in the Historic Documents of the Church, and in the Catechism. Which shows that you know next to nothing about Episcopalianism. I also suspect you know very little about the history of the Catholic Church and how and why Lutherism and Episcopalianism began. You keep expounding on Henry the VII, but that shows you don't know your history. Henry was already dabbling with Lutherism because of the gross and manifold corruption in the Catholic Church under the Medici Popes. His marriage to Catherine was the final straw, which many historians feel was because he could not outbid Catherine's family when it come to bribing the Pope. We can spend hours cataloging the sins of each other's faith. Do you REALLY want to go there? The point is one man made a decision to change his faith. That's really all this comes down too.

Nobody was ever meant to be alone forever. All the scandles of the priests having relations with altar boys would never have happened. Live and let ive. The Catholic church would have a better balanced parish is preists were allowed to marry. Whatever happened to acceptance, forgiveness, tolerance, and freedom. There is no reason a priest just like everyone else cannot love God and another human being at the same time.

This is a SHAMELESS HIPOCRIT whose integrity was gone long time ago when dicided to betrayed his own promese.This is not about celibacy this is about being honest with God, his parishioners and all the people that believed in him. In top of that his lover has a 5 years old son that nobody knows who is his father. therefore, a lot a people believe that this child is Cutie`s child. NICE GUY!!!!
But people do not worry.Remember every dog has it`s day

EMI - - Which Prayer Book are you referring to - the 1928 that in detail states the requirements to be a Bishop of the church - or the 1978 that omitted those detailed requirements..
Yes, I was a member of ECUSA, emphasis on "was"
Ray

Hello, the pot calling the kettle black? What's so alarming for the Episcopal Church recieving Father Cutie with his girlfriend into the church? The Roman Catholic Church has recieved aprox. more than one hundred married men in the U.S. who use to be priests or pastors in the Episcopal or Lutheran churches; after recieving them as converts along with their wives and younger children. These convert men are later re-ordained and allowed to be priests in the Roman Catholic Church as a married, NON CELIBATE clergy. Now that is very hypocritical of the Roman church, that one of their own is suddenly a bad apple just because he broke his vow. However , the Roman Church is allowed to break it's own vows in order to accept those who are not original members, non celibates as priest. After all, the whole church, those who posted here, including me have failed someway or another to Our Lord Jesus Christ. Mea Culpa to all!

>You keep expounding on Henry the VII, but that shows you don't know your history.

EML, where did I mention Henry the VII? You are not reading what I am saying,
and you are responding to your own prejudices. Under the circumstances, any further discussion is pointless. Thanks,

George

>However , the Roman Church is allowed to break it's own vows in order to accept >those who are not original members, non celibates as priest.

For the record: there are no such vows. The Church may or may not ordain married men to become priests. This is how it was from the very beginning, i.e. from the times of Christ. Also from the very beginning the Church would not permit ordained priests to marry or re-marry if they became widowers. In this respect Mr. Cutie broke his priestly vows. I don't even mention his divorced girlfriend who probably would not be able to receive the Sacrament of marriage with ANYBODY. Breaking the sacrament of priesthood and of marriage are not small matters. If Episcopal priests becomes a Catholic priest, he breaks no sacramental teachings of the Church.

I honestly don't believe there is anything wrong with this MAN falling in loving and choosing to pursue the sacrament of Marriage in our Catholic church. The distasteful and unethical way this was done however does cause me much concern. I believe that "Father Oprah" aka Father Cutie got caught up in the limelight. He loved the attention, he loved the notariaty and fame that came with his hit talk show. He was unwilling to give all that fame up for anyone, least of all apparently any one sacrament. He could have openly gone to his bishop and archbishop and as an MAN stood before them and say he had chosen to leave his calling to pursue another sacrament. The sacrament of matrimony, there is nothing wrong with this. It is an honorable calling. Instead he cowardly hid away waiting for the reporters to find out and break the story. What did he gain from this. Again that notariaty and fame that he so much craves. Again he could have chosen to leave the priesthood quietly, taken the step down to deacon, continued to be a viable member of the Catholic church. Instead he invites the media to his denunciation of his catholic faith and joins the Episcopal church amid a media paparazzi. Here's what needs to happen. Media leave him alone, stop reporting his every move. Christians join in prayer for this lost soul. Let's see how long "Father Oprah" will last without the media frenzy surrounding him.

Jewell,

My parish Priest is a genuinely happy and content man withouit a wife, children and believe it or not without having sex. Most are not called to the celibate life but I know many who are. I strongly urge you to go speak with a Priest or some religious Sisters/Nuns whom are celibate. I guarantee you'd be surprised.

Peace and Blessings

The reality of Alberto is that he has lied for the past 10 years and who knows if more than that. He obviously didn't believe in celibacy but he violated his vows he switches churches like nothing. It just looks like he never believed in anything that he accepted when he became a priest. 1. When you become a priest according to the catholic church you get married to God and the church, so he was unfaithful there. 2. Doesn't believe in marriage for reason (1) and because his now "fiancee" is a divorced woman so where is that thing he said so many times "unitl death due us apart" and to top it off that woman has a child from a previous man not her exhusband GOOD JJOB CUTIE. 3. Very simply a coward that is now going to use another church to continue getting money for all those interviews that he is doing because if he wasnt getting anything he would have come forward with everything long time ago.

People are upset because he was living a lie, and thus lying to his congreation, the people he is suppose to serve. Also, she is also to blame. Who but a selfish woman would approach a priest knowing he is married to the church. She still had to have her way, thus she does not deserve any respect. He could have left thus not compromising his congregation nor his integrity. No he had to be outed, so to speak, making out with this woman on a beach. He could have just given up his priesthood, married this woman, and joined another religion. But he carried on with her knowing his reputation, but, still feeding off his ego. Maybe it's best he left. His words of love have no meaning, he didn't love his following enough and then lied about it.

Ray, since I used the 1978 Book of Common Prayer this past Sunday and read from the Catechism and the Articles of the Religion during the service, I can assure you have obviously been a lapsed Episcopal since.. what.. 1977?

proud2bcatholic.. well, since the Episcopal Church has nuns and monks who also choose to be celibate, I believe you when they say they are happy. But obviously Father Cute was not. So, should he have stayed in the Catholic Church and broken his vows or did as he did, left the Catholic Church and is in the process of finding out if he can serve in the Episcopal Church? As I've mentioned several times, he is now in the process of Discernment, which is normally a 2 year soujorn of prayer, conseling and reflection before he can be considered for ordaination as an Episcopal priest. By the way, he could still be turned down by the Episcopal Church.

The one thing that gets me about the Catholic church, is there are quite a few things that they do that is not biblical. The Catholic church is about works, and the scriptures clearly state in Ephesians 2:8-9 that it is not works that save us. As far as a priest being married, the scriptures do say that Paul said that he would rather that we would be like him for he was unmarried and could go on a mission trip anytime because he did not have to answer to nobody. However, he said that this is to those who can stand it. If not, it was better to marry than to burn in lust. Some churches put demands on the people that God did not.

Wow what a cutie indeed ! The Episcopal church is far ahead from the catholic church in forgiveness, acceptance and loving "all people". Historically, celibacy in the Catholic church originates from the 3rd century AD and was a requirement only for "specialists" in prayer to withdraw from the world. It was not until the 1500's that priests practiced celibacy as a doctrine. There is no biblical reference for requiring celibacy of priests. Regardless of these historical facts, anyone that has read the history of the Catholic Church knows about all the many Popes who had mistresses who bore them children, and or contracted syphilis from relations with prostitutes - remember Pope Julius II the benefactor of the Sistine Chapel Ceiling? No one can argue that there are priests who are married in the Catholic church today but they were married before they became priests, so I guess that makes it alright for them but not for their single brothers in the faith? So as not to have a double standard, why doesn't the Catholic Church ban married men from entering the priesthood if celibacy is the way ? In my opinion, the Catholic church needs to forgive itself first, come up to the 21st century and then perhaps they will finally be able to welcome ALL of God's people into the priesthood, including women, gays and lesbians. As an Episcopalian, I welcome Father Cutie not only because he lives his convictions while being faithful to his God -but wow because he is so cute and his girl friend is kind of hot too !

If you read the Scriptures, especially I Timothy 3:1-7, it lists the REQUIREMENTS of being an overseer or bishop (leader in God's church). He is supposed to be married; v2 "... the husband of but one wife, ..." (no divorcees), v5 "If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God's church?"
Paul, the only non-divine church leader who was not married, wrote that requirement. He also said that it was better to marry than to burn w/ passion.
I don't fault Cutie-pie for falling in love; it's natural. But you don't take a vow and then break it. I don't agree w/ the Catholic church but he agreed to be celibate. He should have left the priesthood.
b

Celibacy does not guarantee one is more spiritual. Having a sex partner does not automatically cut one off from God. As for "breaking vows". Sometimes you find that you really didn't know that you couldn't keep the vow at the time you took it. Many priests sign up when they are very young and untried. Sort of like young marriages. Considering how many divorces in our country, a lot of people "break vows", so throwing stones is inappropriate. I think I will reserve my supply of stones for people who abuse children, (priests or otherwise.)

I wonder how many who posted here are immaculately concieved and born sinless so they have the right to throw rocks and boulders to a priest who broke
his vows. Jesus didn't condemmed the adulteress woman, because His nature is of love and compassion; therefore, He most likely doesn't condem Fa. Cutie.
Leave it to us christians, who like wolves dressed in sheep's clothing devour our own brethren without mercy....GOD have mercy of us all !

He can find joy in the united church of christ (UCC). We are mainline protestants with a rich and diverse history of social justice.

>Considering how many divorces in our country, a lot of people "break vows", so >throwing stones is inappropriate.

This argument is often raised by advocates of gay marriage: "marriage cannot be hurt anymore." Lowering moral standards does not lead to better morality. You confuse sinners with non-repenting sinners setting "new standards" and often calling them "progressive" (or "reformed"). This is OK in the permissive secular society advocating moral relativism. It is not OK in any religion, let alone Christianity. Otherwise, what is the point of religion? We can be infinitely more "compassionate" in our secular society. Almost anything goes. Abortion, contraception, separation of marriage from family and procreation, promiscuity, divorces. There is no right or wrong. It may be legal or illegal. The rest is "irrelevant." This is what atheist preachers are preaching I am afraid that this is the course chosen by ECUSA who forgot the message "go, and sin no more".

George, well, I was coming to the same conclusion. You would say something about the Episcopal Church, I would refute it and then you would find something other failing to complain about. I believe when facts cause you cognitive disoonance, you simply ignore them. But as I said, this entire Episcopal vs. Catholic divide is crazy. If the failings of one man who changes his denomination then there is no real Ecumenicalism. That's what should be the real take-away from this event. And by the way George,greed, vengefulness, holding others in contempt are the ones most often condemned by Jesus. Ignoring the sins of the spirit are according to the Gospels just as deadly as divorce and promiscuity.

EML,

What he does from here on in is between him and God. If he was having an affair with this woman without the intent of ceasing then I believe he had an obligation to come forward based on his vows which he took when he received the Sacrament of Holy Orders. Who knows maybe he was consitently going to Confession during this time knowing of his obligations. If in his confessions where sincere and he intended to stop then his sins where forgiven. And of course you can't brown nose Jesus. Again ultimately its between him and God. I don't know much about the Epsicopalian religion accept I believe it is genuinely close to Catholicism in many areas. I am surrpised based on the circumstances how much of a media event it appears the leaders of the Episcopalian Church made out of his joining them and if I'm not mistaken he has even preached?

Peace and Blessings

Joe Smith,

Actually in the book of James it clearly states that faith without works is dead. Catholicism is Biblical but also based on tradition. Obviously the Bible can be interpreted many different ways which is the reason since the Protestant reformation 10 of thousands of Christian denominations have started. As Catholics we believe the Holy Spirit divinely inspired and inspires Catholic Doctrine. It's Ok for someone to disagree but obviously God being God He could do this. I believe God intended there to be one Church and I happen to believe that is the Catholic Church. If you are interested in finding out what the Church's postions are on scripture you disagree with ask a Priest or go on line and research it. You may not agree but there is always an answer as to the why? One of my favorite quotes from our Pastor is "we aren't called to agree, but believe".

God Bless you my friend.

>If the failings of one man who changes his denomination then there is no real >Ecumenicalism.

EML, I can see your point. I don't think that this man will change much in relationships between the Churches. I was studying the Episcopalians for some time (btw. you probably meant Henry the VIII not VII, but I didn't dare to mention the failings of a single man).

I was discouraged because I couldn't find moral clarity and moral guidance there similar to that in the Catholic Church. Not because I found more sinners on either side. There are over 400,000 Traditional Anglicans who want to join Rome en bloc. The pope could accelerate that and create media frenzy tommorow. Do you believe this would be Ecumenical?. You underestimate the situation: this men demonstrates narcissism "in your face". He broke his Sacramental vows and probably he will brake them again by marrying a women who broke her Sacramental vows. He did it very fast after being caught (so much for "spiritual struggle"), and the Episcopalian Church made a big media event out of it without bothering to discuss the matter with fellow Catholic bishops. Is this your spirit of "Ecumenicalism"?

It was amazing, EML, to watch your church welcome him with open arms after he:

1. Broke his vow to the priesthood;
2. Broke his vow of chastity and violated this woman's dignity.

Yet, no shame from anyone....

Interesting that this continues a long line of dissent in your church starting with Henry VIII, related to inability to be disciplined related to concupiscence! Some things never change.

Thomas More was beheaded by Henry VIII because he would not support the King's dissent from the Church, and as a result, started his own church and declared himself head, which you now call home, EML. Do tell about the legitimacy of the church to which Mr. Cutie now calls home? He has self-excommunicated from the Catholic Church.

Henry VIII
"Bishop" Robinson
former Fr. Cutie....

Is there a pattern here?

KJR.. and you would refuse him the chance to be forgiven. How has the greater sin? Personally, I believe it's you. Okay, so since you all want to harp on how the Episcopal Church started. Let's not forget that the Catholic Church sold indulgences and anyone with the right amount of money could find their sins forgiven by the Church. Oh and the fact that ALL the Medici Popes had mistresses and brought their bastards sons into the church and elevated most of them to Bishops. Oh, and lets not forget how Catherine's brother paid off the Pope so he would refuse Henry's request for an annulment and the Pope took the bribe. If you don't want to be remindid of your won sins, perhaps you shouldn't try to look down at other people's . By the way, would you like me to start on the Avignon Pope and how the decent of the lineage of Peter's seat is actually questionable? All anyone of you've done is prove my contention that for many Catholics, Ecumenicalism is a one way street.

George, and yet, you and so many other want him punished. He came to the Episcopal Church and hopes to find something there. Who are you to deny him? Who are we? Did Christ turn away anyone because they had sinned? Theorectically, we all worship a God who has such love for us that he forgave us even after we killed his beloved son. I've pointed this out several times that he is not suddenly an ordained Episcopal priest. He is required to perform a period of Discernment. He will spend time in counseling and reflection to determine if he is truly called to the priesthood. In turn, the Episcopal Church could decide that he does not have a true calling and will not ordain him. He has clearly stumbled in his faith. But the Christ who made the lame walk, can surely heal him if it is right. Who are you and I to worry about his sins, when ares are equally grievous to the Lord?

Funny all the double standards of the Catholic Church - so much talk here about Father Cutie breaking his vows - but YET The Catholic Church allows a marriage to be annulled after the marriage has produced children from that sacred union. I figure in this case that Father Cutie annulled the Catholic Church first and beat them to the punch !

>George, and yet, you and so many other want him punished.

Where did I write it? Again you are discussing your own projections and prejudices.
I was showing how this man and the enthusiastic response to his affair from the Episcopalian bishop does not help any dialog. I am not for punishing anybody. I am for voluntary repentance in line with Christian teachings. With the Episcopalian reception he is unlikely to repent anything. He will be a celebrity for thumbing nose at the Catholic Church. And you will wonder why the Church is not so enthusiastic about such outburst of "Ecumenicalism".

EML - forgiveness implies remorse, does it not? Fr. Cutie and the grandiose welcome without any reference whatsoever to his breach. You are correct that everyone walks on broken legs, but when you glorify the sinner for the very sin and condemn the Catholic Church for having vows and disciplines that HE chose to break - and celebrate his breach, that is a very different story.

KJR.. and how do YOU know he isn't remorseful. I don't know. I expect that will be part of his Discernment. Have you ever read the Episcopalian rite of Penitence?

Isn't it obvious? He simply went a way that changes the rules to conform to his behavior, rather than renounce his behavior, be reconciled, and get back on track where he was prior. And your Church is celebrating him...

PS. KJR, if any Episcopalians are celebrating, and I dare you to find a single quote that says we are, we are celebrating as the father of the prodigal son celebrated. It's obvious that Father Cute had lost his way in his walk with God. He has sought us out in an attempt to find his way again. Tell me what is wrong with that?

For me the obvious question is: did this man joined the Episcopal Church out of profound belief that this is a true church? O perhaps his "conversion" was less than profound.

I am aware of many Episcopalian priests who joined the Catholic Church due to real CONVERSION. On of them, Fr. Alvin Kimel affected me very much. His intellectual power also speaks well about his Episcopalian upbringing. This is why I respected the Episcopal Church until Fr. Kimel could not find his place there anymore. Sad.

EML - look at the picture on this blog for starters...

So, let me understand this, he wants to get back to his walk with God, so rather than confessing and repenting in the tradition to which he took his vows, he dumps it to continue the behavior that is the basis of the lost walk - because it is ok in the "other" tradition" ... What am I missing?

EML, I see you as a very sincere and charitable person, and I respect you very much for your defense of this. I just don't think you math adds up.

KJR.. What you are missing is the process of Discernment in the Episcopal Church, which will include confession and repentence. So, what I get from YOUR position is only the Catholic Church counts and confession and repentence and discernment in any other order can be ignored. Thanks for clarify that. Again, for many Catholics Ecumenicalism is clearly a one way street.

No, thank your for clarifying. The Episcopal Church celebrates and enables the behavior that is the basis of the loss of the "walk with God". Repentance means renouncing the behavior. Rather then renounce and repent, and return to his vow, he has simply rationalized his behavior so as to make it "legal", if you will.

You avoid the issue to justify your Church's enabling and affirming of the behavior.

What has he done wrong? He fell in love and he's making the best of a bad situation. He can no longer in good conscience be a Catholic priest, nor a Catholic (and I'm beginning to see why). He's turned to a church that will hopefully help him to grow. Hey, but I imagine you are without sin. Or maybe it's your priest or Pope that you consider without sin. The reason I'm Episcopal was because when my mother needed the Catholic Church it threw her out and told her she wasn't welcome anymore. She made one mistake as a young woman and your church caste her out. I begin to see why when the Episcopal Church opened it's door to her, she gladly walked throught them. Thanks for helping undertand my mother's choice more clearly.

>She made one mistake as a young woman and your church caste her out.
The only situation where Catholics may feel rejected is if they violate the Sacrament of Matrimony. Indeed, if they re-marry, they cannot receive Sacraments except at their deathbed. I don't know how else to solve it.

In any case, I feel that the Episcopal Church bends its rules in the name of "inclusivity." It is well summarized by Fr. Alvin Kimel:

"It did not take long after his ordination in the Episcopal Church, Father Kimel explained, to feel there was "something wrong," which he described as a "sickness of the dogma of inclusivity." Such a mindset, he went on, results in nothing being believed in except inclusivity."

http://www.rcan.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=feature.show&feature_id=427

"What has he done wrong? He fell in love and he's making the best of a bad situation."

Are you kidding? It is not about sin, and spare me the "are you without sin" nonsense. It is about fidelity and faithfulness to his vow, and to her dignity, both of which he violated. Is he a robot? When there were warning signs he should have extricated himself, but he did not. Things happen, but now he is CHOOSING to leave the priesthood, it is not forced on him, because his own personal needs came before his vow, and her dignity.

So, rather than "go and sin no more", Cutie chose to change the rules... I feel very sorry for him.

I have to wonder whether this discussion is akin to: "How many angels dance on the head of a pin?" It seems as though we are all missing the point, and more heat than light is being shed on the Cutié situation. If after discernment, he is allowed to function as an Episcopal priest, he will not be re-ordained, rather he will be recognized as a priest and allowed to function as an Episcopalian, just as a Roman Catholic lay person who becomes an Episcopalian is received, not re-confirmed. From what I have read, it sounds as though Cutié is allowed to function as an Episcopal deacon, and will go through discernment before he is allowed to function as an Episcopal priest.

Still, we're talking about two very human organizations that seem to take certain un-Christian delight in scrapping with each other. Each has a history of leading people to live holy lives, and each, as human organizations has had its share of misbehavior. I don't think any church has a monopoly on good judgment, or sinlessness. What the Cutié situation tells me is that the feelings between the two communions are pretty raw, and while we are all battling this out, people are naked and starving. What would Jesus say?

Yes, this all seems rather quick to me. Within canonical bounds, bishops have discretion regarding ordination and reception of clergy already ordained by bishops, but he will need to go through a period of discernment. As an Episcopal priest myself, I feel some sympathy for Fr. Cutié, but clearly he has broken his vows and lived a life of public deceit. This surely warrants an appropriate period of contrition and reflection before he can again serve as a priest. The door indeed swings both ways between the RC and Episcopal churches and no cheering is in order when people walk through the door in either direction. In a world such as this, what matters is whether the gospel of Jesus Christ is proclaimed faithfully and the sacraments are administered to the benefit of the faithful. Anglicans are less convinced there is “one truth” unambiguously available to individuals or institutions, it is true, so this story has the ability to remind us of this historical fact. But in the five-hundred year history of fascinating conversation between Roman and non-Roman catholic Christianity, surely this episode warrants only a small footnote.