Notre Dame's Jenkins on Obama, abortion
Here is the text of the speech by Notre Dame's president, the Rev. John I. Jenkins, introducing President Obama at today's commencement, and reflecting on the associated controversy:
"President Obama, Fr. Hesburgh, Judge Noonan, Members of the Board of Trustees, Members of the faculty, staff, alumni, friends, parents, and most of all – the Notre Dame Class of 2009:Several autumns ago, you came to Notre Dame from home….now Notre Dame has become home. And it always will be. For home is not where you live. Home is where you belong. You will always belong – and I pray you will always feel you belong – here at Notre Dame.
You are … ND.
In my four years as President of your University – I have found that even among those who did not go to Notre Dame, even among those who do not share the Catholic faith, there is a special expectation, a special hope, for what Notre Dame can accomplish in the world. They hope that Notre Dame will be one of the great universities in the nation, but they also hope that it will send forth graduates who -- grounded in deep moral values -- can help solve the world’s toughest problems.
Their hope is in you, the graduates of 2009.
That is a good place for hope to be. I have great confidence in what your talent and energy can accomplish in the world. But I have a special optimism for what you can do inspired by faith.
It is your faith that will focus your talents and help you build the world you long to live in and leave to your children.
The world you enter today is torn by division – and is fixed on its differences.
Differences must be acknowledged, and in some cases cherished. But too often differences lead to pride in self and contempt for others, until two sides – taking opposing views of the same difference -- demonize each other. Whether the difference is political, religious, racial, or national -- trust falls, anger rises, and cooperation ends … even for the sake of causes all sides care about.
More than any problem in the arts or sciences - engineering or medicine – easing the hateful divisions between human beings is the supreme challenge of this age. If we can solve this problem, we have a chance to come together and solve all the others.
A Catholic university – and its graduates – are specially called, and I believe specially equipped, to help meet this challenge.
As a Catholic university, we are part of the Church – members of the “mystical body of Christ” animated by our faith in the Gospel. Yet we are also – most of us – citizens of the United States – this extraordinary evolving expression of human freedom. We are called to serve each community of which we’re a part, and this call is captured in the motto over the door of the east nave of the Basilica: “God, Country, Notre Dame.”
As we serve the Church, we can persuade believers by appeals to both faith and reason. As we serve our country, we will be motivated by faith, but we cannot appeal only to faith. We must also engage in a dialogue that appeals to reason that all can accept.
When we face differences with fellow citizens, we will be tested: do we keep trying, with love and a generous spirit, to appeal to ethical principles that might be persuasive to others – or do we condemn those who differ with us for not seeing the truth that we see?
The first approach can lead to healing, the second to hostility. We know which approach we are called to as disciples of Christ.
Pope Benedict said last year from the South Lawn of the White House: “I am confident that the American people will find in their religious beliefs a precious source of insight and an inspiration to pursue reasoned, responsible and respectful dialogue in the effort to build a more humane and free society.”
Genuine faith does not inhibit the use of reason; it purifies it of pride and distorting self-interest. As it does so, Pope Benedict has said, “human reason is emboldened to pursue its noble purpose of serving mankind, giving expression to our deepest common aspirations and extending … public debate.”
Tapping the full potential of human reason to seek God and serve humanity is a central mission of the Catholic Church. The natural place for the Church to pursue this mission is at a Catholic university. The University of Notre Dame belongs to an academic tradition of nearly a thousand years – born of the Church’s teaching that human reason, tempered by faith, is a gift of God, a path to religious truth, and a means for seeking the common good in secular life.
It is out of this duty to serve the common good that we seek to foster dialogue with all people of good will, regardless of faith, background or perspective. We will listen to all views, and always bear witness for what we believe. Insofar as we play this role, we can be what Pope John Paul II said a Catholic university is meant to be – "a primary and privileged place for a fruitful dialogue between the Gospel and culture" [Ex corde ecclesiae, 3.34].
Of course, dialogue is never instantaneous; it doesn’t begin and end in an afternoon. It is an ongoing process made possible by many acts of courtesy and gestures of respect, by listening carefully and speaking honestly. Paradoxically, support for these actions often falls as the need for them rises – so they are most controversial precisely when they can be most helpful.
As we all know, a great deal of attention has surrounded President Obama’s visit to Notre Dame. We honor all people of good will who have come to this discussion respectfully and out of deeply held conviction.
Most of the debate has centered on Notre Dame’s decision to invite and honor the President. Less attention has been focused on the President’s decision to accept.
President Obama has come to Notre Dame, though he knows well that we are fully supportive of Church teaching on the sanctity of human life, and we oppose his policies on abortion and embryonic stem cell research.
Others might have avoided this venue for that reason. But President Obama is not someone who stops talking to those who differ with him.
Mr. President: This is a principle we share.
As the Fathers of the Second Vatican Council wrote in their pastoral constitution Gaudium et Spes: “Respect and love ought to be extended also to those who think or act differently than we do in social, political and even religious matters. In fact, the more deeply we come to understand their ways of thinking through such courtesy and love, the more easily will we be able to enter into dialogue with them.”
If we want to extend courtesy, respect and love – and enter into dialogue – then surely we can start by acknowledging what is honorable in others.
We welcome President Obama to Notre Dame, and we honor him for the qualities and accomplishments the American people admired in him when they elected him. He is a man who grew up without a father, whose family was fed for a time with the help of food stamps -- yet who mastered the most rigorous academic challenges, who turned his back on wealth to serve the poor, who sought the Presidency at a young age against long odds, and who – on the threshold of his goal -- left the campaign to go to the bedside of his dying grandmother who helped raise him.
He is a leader who has great respect for the role of faith and religious institutions in public life. He has said: “Secularists are wrong when they ask believers to leave their religion at the door before entering into the public square.”
He is the first African American to be elected President, yet his appeal powerfully transcends race. In a country that has been deeply wounded by racial hatred – he has been a healer.
He has set ambitious goals across a sweeping agenda -- extending health care coverage to millions who don’t have it, improving education especially for those who most need it, promoting renewable energy for the sake of our economy, our security, and our climate.He has declared the goal of a world without nuclear weapons and has begun arms reduction talks with the Russians.
He has pledged to accelerate America’s fight against poverty, to reform immigration to make it more humane, and to advance America’s merciful work in fighting disease in the poorest places on earth.
As commander-in-chief and as chief executive, he embraces with confidence both the burdens of leadership and the hopes of his country.
Ladies and Gentlemen: The President of the United States."
(Photo, by Jeff Haynes/Getty Images, shows Notre Dame President Rev. John I. Jenkins and President Obama at the Notre Dame commencement today, May 17, 2009.)
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Jenkins should be fired !!
WHY !!!!!!!!
It is one thing to invite President Obama to speak yet another to give him an honorary degree. Of course, the President is going to accept Notre Dame's offer to speak at a Catholic Institution. He will take all of these types of opportunities
because the more controversy it produces it will work to divide Catholics on the views of stem-cell research and abortion. The President is a smart man and he will use that division to his benefit.I am not sure that there is a common ground to the taking of a human life as the President suggests.
Wow! What a wonderful introduction!
I believe I am a better advocate for the unborn when I listen to those who disagree with me than I am when I'm overcome with the need to prove that I'm right. After all, I still have a great deal to learn.
Fr. Jenkins did more to win justice for the very young than the protesters who marched around campus with T-shirts of babies being tossed into the garbage. Pro-Lifers would do well to give those we disagree with the idea that we are a joyous, rational group of people.
Paul Bradford, Pro-Life Catholics for Choice
So long as the difference between the intrinsic evil of abortion is "thrown in" with other important, but not necessarily intrinsically evil acts, there will be a problem. Abortion is different that war, death penalty, immigration, health care, etc. Honorable people can disagree on approach, but as to abortion, IT IS ALWAYS EVIL. This has been lost on Fr. Jenkins and Notre Dame, and they have caused great scandal. The issues isn't so much as inviting Obama to speak, I really don't care about that - but it is about honoring a man who enables evil
Lord have mercy on us.
Paul - what the heck is a "Pro-Life Catholic for Choice". THAT is the ultimate OXYMORON, and THAT is the deception of the pro-abortion crowd.
Look at all the reich wing hypocrites who hate the President. They never had a problem before when Condoleeza Rice spoke at Notre Dame. She just happens to be pro choice. And where's the outrage for GW Bush's executions when he was the Governor of Texas? President Obama tried to reach out his hand to all the reich wing thugs who hate him. Its clear they were just using this wedge issue as a reason to protest against him.
Burn him at the stake.
The whole ND administration should be fired over this. A complete disgrace! Even ND has sold out its Catholic ideals.
If they want to bring in speakers like this who represent ideals other than what a Catholic University is supposed to represent remove the university from the Archdiocese.
Now it is on the Archdiocese to take appropriate action. That won't happen either.
I agree we must be able to talk to people of different faiths and beliefs.
But we don't have to invite them into our house and tell the world how great they are.
Jenkins compromised the principles of the church, he needs to be offered the oppritunity to find a different job.
If we violate our principles we have become weaker, not stronger or smarter.
Why is it so difficult for people to understand that someone can be pro-life, i.e., opposed to abortion, but pro freedom and support a woman's right to make her own decisions? It is neither oxymoronic, nor deception. It you're opposed to abortion, don't have one.
as Bob Dylan once sang " Be it the Devil or be it the Lord, we all got to SERVE somebody" . Who is the ND Prez serving? Obama is serving MoveOn, DailyKos, George Sors, Planned Parenthood, NARAL, NOW etc etc etc. SUBSTANCE OVER ORATORY!!!!!
Hmm.. Pro-Life Catholics for Choice. Sorry to tell you that you cannot be a practicing Catholic and pro choice. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, along with reading the views expressed on the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops website regarding Abortion. You are only fooling yourself. If you want to be pro choice, then you are not a practicing catholic. End of story.
KJR, as you state in your last sentence...'Lord have mercy on us'...I pray the Lord does have mercy on you. You are not hearing what Rev. Jenkins was saying. It is only in OPEN dialogue that differences can be addressed, and your attitude does not enable open dialogue.
Nice to see the Catholic Agenda pushers sch as KJR out today, always a pleasure to share the board with those who have no interest in intelligent discourse.
As usual, the Anti-Choice groups and their mouthpieces here fail to realize many things, but most important among them are these.
First, no one is pro-abortion, rather we are pro-choice, pro-freedom. Abortion is not a good thing, but neither is it intrinsically evil as the so-called pro-lifers insist it is. Should a woman have to bear the burden of being pregnant from someone who raped her? Only an inhuman monster would suggest they should, yet these pro-lifers claim to be the side of he just, protecting the innocent. Poppycock. The church has always stood opposite the rights and liberties of women.
Second, we are not all Catholics (thankfully). We do not share your beliefs, your obsessions and your restrictions. We do not believe that the Pope has a mystical connection with God who has told him that abortion is wrong or when life begins. Anyone with a knowledge of ecclesiastical history could tell you that the Pope, and apparently by extension, God, can't even make up his mind about when life begins and what should happen to those who have abortions. We don't share in your beliefs, please don't try to force them upon us.
Try doing some good in the world for a change, instead of spouting off about the very hard choices some women have had to make in regards to their own bodies.
There is no american political party that embraces all aspects of the Catholic faith. As such, Notre Dame either has to extend an invitation to all sitting presidents or to none. It has chosen to extend an invitation to all and I respect that and I am proud of the ND students who have engaged the discussions of the past couple weeks with a respectful and thoughtful mind.
Unfortunately, abortion is not going away. The pro-life movement needs to spend more time, effort and money combatting unwanted pregnancy as well as providing for all women that choose life. The pro-life movement must also embrace those who made a regretful choice. We must minister to all.
As a Boston transplant and Notre Dame graduate living in South Bend, I was disgusted by the costly displays in the weeks before Mr. Obama's visit. I can only imagine how many $130 cribs could have been purchased for needy mothers at the local woman's care center with the money spent. Grotesque photographs of fetuses do nothing more than alienate. They do not provide healing and they do not help anyone.
If his appeal powerfully transcends race, why give an honorary degree to an advocate of abortion which appears to result in 37% of abortions being African -American when only comprising 13% of the population? Is there a Margaret Sanger policy being implemented here?
I am deeply moved by the introductory remarks in announcing President Obama to the Notre Dame graduates. Whether you agree or disagree with his stand on choice or stem cell research, in this country, people are supposed to be able to say what is in their hearts without fear of reprisals. I am embarrassed that there were demonstrations against the President. As a Hoosier, I can only hope people will learn to respect the office of President, even though they are free to disagree with the person who holds that office.
There is no such thing as a "pro life Catholic for choice".
If you are pro abortion you cannot call yourself a Catholic. If you are against a basic tenant of the Catholic church you are not a Catholic! That has been made very clear by the American Bishops.
His speech was one of many great speeches that he's given and he had it all going on this speech...Substance check...Oratory skills check...He has it all!!!! Get on board and stop hatin...Republicans neo-con whackos are the thing of the past...Hey elephants, we spent 8 yrs listening to garbage and lies and deceit...So deal with it!!!!!!!!!!!! Is the elephant an endangered species???
try reading the Bible once in a while. The first order of God is love. Women have rid them selves of unwanted pregnancies since the being of time. Why don't all the pro life people start a petition to receive unwanted children. There are still foster group homes all over the Country. Let them know that you want them and take them in. Give them a good life, as God would intended. Try not to be a hypocritical. God is watching. And if the real issue is race, we are given a charge by God to love everybody. God is not mocked.
And God formed man from the dust of the earth and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7
The debate isn't when life begins, we know that. From a biological standpoint, no doubt life begins at conception. The question is when does God inject a soul into that biological life form. Since as many as 60-80% of all conceptions fail to implant into the uterine wall (in normal, healthy humans) and are subsequently flushed down the toilet, if those embryos have a soul then surely heaven is full of embryos.
Maybe St. Thomas Aquinas, Pope Innocent III, St. Augustine and Pope Gregory XIV knew something we humans have forgotten. Hmmmm...
#s 1, 5, 6, 8, 9 and 13 remind me of why I am no longer Catholic.
#15 makes me wince at being a liberal. While I agree with much of what he says, the way he has put his opinions reinforces the shortsightedness "liberals suck" mentality of the aforementioned posters with whom I vehemently disagree.
If you require one side to listen to the other, then be prepared to respectfully disagree with those you have chastised.
Did you know that President Obama lifted a ban on federal funding for international groups that perform abortions? Fr. Jenkins said "When we face differences with fellow citizens... do we keep trying... to appeal to ethical principles that might be persuasive to others. " Yes, we need to keep trying. But we don't need to invite evil into our homes.
I was totally against Obama speaking at Notre Dame for the very reason of what he advocates and what the university stands against. I believe if I let a homosexual preach from our church pulpit , it would be the same thing. I do not believe in abortion and I do not believe the homosexual life style is accepted by God. If you believe in the word of God then stand up for it.
Seems to me it would be more aptly said "Pro-my-life lapsed Catholic for the choice to kill small children" but that would be argumentative. I am ready and able to extend respect and love to any human being, even BO, but we have to stop killing the electorate.
"If you don't stand for something... You will fall for anything." I am certain Fr. Jenkins would like to re-write the Bible, such that God the Father does not destroy Sodom & Gomorrah (Genesis 19:24) and Jesus does not "Cleanse the Temple" (Matthew 21: 10-17; Mark 11:11; & Luke 19: 45-46). On this day, we should quote what Jesus repeated when he cleansed the temple; i.e., ""My house shall be called a house of prayer', but you have made it a den of robbers." Certainly Fr. Jenkins exhibits the weak Catholic leadership in the United States which has led to empty churches and 60% of pseudo-Catholics approving of Obama.
We live in an age of great deception. I would recommend the film the Silent Scream to those who think abortion is not that serious. What a disgrace and what deception that an abortionist should be invited to a catholic institution. Congratulations to those arrested and especially Mr Keyes.
To bhawks81:
From an agnostic and pro-choice advocate, it remedies what irritation I have when I read these comments slightly to see that, even though we might not have the same viewpoints on abortion and we might differ on religion, there are still Catholics that can see that the majority of you are fools, spending money that should be spent on helping those women who are abruptly mothers, energy that should be counseling instead of dividing, and so forth. Thank you for being the eye in the maelstrom of stupidity.
There are so many of you ... starting with the first moronic call for Jenkins to be fired ... who just don't get it. You never will because you are so strongly stuck on your one and only very personal point of view ... not a religious belief but an extremely narrow view of life, the cosmos and our purpose here on this tiny little spec we call earth. If you were really content with your position on such matters as the definition of life vs. freedom of choice, you would not be so hatefully terrified of those who cross these self-imposed, artificially created borders of morality.
Also, it's amazing how the Pope preaches love and acceptance and such and then all of you run around here saying others are evil, should be burnt, fired, etcetera. Congratulations on direct hypocrisy of the supposed mouth of God.
Finally, a last note on those posters that pro-lifers love to use - what a terrible argument, to photograph the visceral side of an issue and try to emotionally sway people from logic. Same as vegetarians who try to use slaughterhouse footage to get people to go vegan, even though our entire history as human beings goes against it. Intellect is short out in Notre Dame supporters, apparently.
Jenkins should be defrocked, go to the sacrament of penance, and apologize to his superiors in which he took a vow of obedience.
I come from a 90%+ Catholic country where abortion is generally a crime, with a few exceptions, but that does NOT prevent many women from trying to terminate unwanted pregnancies by any possible means. Some will pay large amounts of money to get some doctor to risk his career by performing a safe abortion, while many will just go to cheaper and unlicensed practitioners and risk their lives in unhealthy conditions. Other women give birth and abandon the newborns, etc. And in most cases, they end up deeply regretting everything for life, simply because it's unnatural to get rid of our offspring.
I'm Catholic, pro-file and pray for an end to abortions. However, I think making abortion illegal does not solve the problem, but just cloaks and hides it. I think there cannot be a real pro-file society without effective sexual education and very strong social support for both women and unwanted children. So, that's the starting point of true pro-life policies, not just making abortion illegal or a social stigma.
Is Jenkins Possessed?
The repugnance felt by faithful and obedient Catholics is due to the honoring by a Catholic institution of Obama because of his extreme acceptance of abortion, not whether or not he has accomplished something or will do so, or whether or not there should be dialogue with opposing actors on one subject or another, or what color he is or what he did to his grandmother. Would Jenkins contend that Catholics should have honored Hitler because of his incredible accomplishments of revitalizing Germany in the thirties?
The logic is clear. You can honor an act when it conforms to your sense of what is honorably right. But you can not honor a person who acts so, if that person also acts in a way contrary to what you yourself advocate as honorably right. Example: The act of X giving some money to a homeless man is honorable, but not the person X, if X is also guilty of murdering another man. A more apt example might be the following: The act of a doctor doing free general practice work at a free health clinic is honorable, but pray, should Catholics honor that actual doctor if the doctor also does abortions there?
Father Jenkins should resign in disgrace. No wonder young Catholic men are not joining the priesthood - it is filled with moral cowards like Father Jenkins who advance their doctrines of moral relativism because they lack the courage to stand for truth.
As a Notre Dame grad, I am proud of Fr. /jenkins, good job!
The gospel of Jesus Christ is not about reason nor choice, it's about holiness and obedience to our God. Scripture does not evade the truth. President Obama has blasphemed God because of his unholy disobedience to the Word of God. Do not be fooled by his smile, speech or cunning words. God will not be mocked by one who supports late term abortion, supports homosexuality and would allow embryos to be used for research. He calls for no more junk science; but supports evolution as if it is real! God will judge him, we can't. One day he will have to face an angry God who will demand justice on the other side of life
@19 -
You are precisely the reason why the Catholic Church is shrinking in the United States. Actually, you can be a Catholic who struggles with this issue. You actually can be a practicing Catholic who both worries about her daughter and the life she carries in her. You can be angry at the young man who got her pregnant and will face NONE of these questions and concerns. You can hate torture, condemn it, and yet wonder about its efficacy in a ticking-time-bomb situation. You can hate the death penalty, but wish it - in all its contradictions - on people like Tim McVeigh, all the while knowing that it's wrong, and that you shouldn't, but you feel it anyway. To be a Catholic is not to follow the Church's litmus test; it is to follow in the path of the great thinkers, intellectuals, and yes, even the community organizers who comprise the great history of the Church. To be a Catholic is not to be a sheep. It is to ask the shepherd questions.
and of course to extend the foolishness ... the Pope and all good Catholics are opposed to contraception of any form. That stand really says it all when discussing what is so absolutely right ... and wrong about the actions of unwanted pregnancies.
Pray for Jenkins! I would not want to go before God and explain why I invited an abortionist to speak at a Catholic college. Just shameful.
If Paul says he needs to work out his salvation with "fear and trembling," I would not want to be Jenkins. There is just no sound reasoning for having Obama speak.
Notre Dame is not a Catholic institution and Father Jenkins does not represent the teachings and doctrines of the Catholic Church by inviting a person who not only believes that innocent and helpless unborns can be slaughtered, but one, who by his power and authority, actively seeks to enact laws to that will result in the murder of miilions more! If Notre Dame were really a Catholic institution, it would be encouraging its students to pray and protest at abortion clinics rather than honor the man who is financing, supporting, and advancing the greatest holocaust in the history of mankind..
If only Catholics would be this passionate about pedofile priest and doing something about that, but no, they just love their pedopriest isn't that right. Please, get your hypocritical protest right.
Dear "Pro-lifer" for Choice and f ellow "believers": Please utilize your intelligence to study the SCIENCE about the basic biology of the fertilized egg - it is biologically unique, unique DNA. Study when does life really begin - not necessarily when it is human but when does its biological life begin. You are proud to be rational and scientific, tryly study the science without your preconceived political position. Outside of the biological facts but supported by them, the unborn child is not a meaningless blob of protoplasm without its own value. FYI I too am a beliver in FREEDOM, as in the freedom of each child to have an environment to reach its full potential. We all need to spend energy supporting all of our children. However, I do not believe in the "freedom" for the life of an unborn child to be terminated, sometimes while stil viable outside the womb. We all want a better world for all children to grow up in. What kind of world have we created when terminating the life of unwanted, innocent children is not only acceptable, but a positive good to be promoted and encouraged?
Too bad you self rightous ignoramouses don't have the same vigor against priest that molest little boys and ruin their lives.Not to mention the church higher ups that cover for them.I don't believe in smoking or drinking,so I do neighter.If you don't believe in abortion,don't have one.Better yet keep your legs shut and it would be a mute point.Get a life will you?
Thank God, Notre Dame, the students and others who are following the teachings of Jesus.
It is difficult for me to believe some of the hatefulness in the name of religion. My best wishes to you that you may find the love in your heart that appears to be lacking re the protests, etc.
Wish all graduates success in helping others.
The liberal Jesuits of this university are the type that will ultimately destroy the Church. Obama's speech was loaded with double talk and stupidly, the crowd lapped it up! The doctor story was a good example. He said he didn't change his views but changed the wording in his website so that it seemed like he "listens" to opposing views. How can anybody take this man seriously? He's a LIAR! And, the Catholics who ADORE Obama have been suckered into his lie!
I left the Catholic Church in high school after bearing so much Catholic hypocrisy I could stand no more. My dad is a ND fan and I always just thought it was because of our Irish Heritage. I am a pro-choice liberal who voted for Obama and today I am truly inspired by both ND and the President.
This is what I wanted to experience in Catholic school- faith, reason and openness. Instead I got what you see in the comments below this fantastic and Truly Catholic speech; demand for retribution against those who are better than themselves, petty judgements, infatuation with labels and how you can't be this label and another label at the same time... uggh, Once again it is proven to me that there a few real Catholics out there.
You almost had an ex-Catholic thinking about coming home. Instead my advice to those of you who feel these leaders at Notre Dame should be fired: study their speeches and Obama's speech again and again. Make a study of Father Hesburgh's life as well. Make it your spiritual study; you have much to learn. Cath-holos means all-embracing.
Sorry, but I do not believe that it is self evident that human life begins at conception. It seems reasonable that there are at least degradations of the unborn. A blastocyst cannot be a human person as a grown person or even a fetus is a human person, as blastocysts can split off and become multiple persons. I am unaware of this phenomenon among persons I have ever known or read about--though this does happen with my dear plant friends. There is something about a ball of cells and a human person, even an underdeveloped human fetus, that make them qualitatively distinct. I cannot see how anyone can have moral outrage over emergency contraception for women who have been raped. I further cannot see how extreme prolifers can demonize someone who th inks it is not immoral, but even just, that a woman who has been raped can have access to emergency contraception despite the elimination of a blastocyst. Unless you have feelings for blastocysts, but why have such strong feelings for blastocysts when that compassion could be directed to living children and mothers?
We must not expect this event, or any of the arguments, to persuade anyone to change their minds on such a polarized question. Rather it is predictable that more attack creates defensiveness and further entrenches existing opinions. However the notion that the opposition needs to be demonized or ostracized is just not practical; the logical extension of shunning others because they disagree with us is for us all to be bitter permanent enemies to the death.
The slim hope left for humanity and especially democracy depends on our striving to work with others even though they disagree with us. Both atheists and fundamentalists can agree that this is not Heaven; we should not expect every other person here to come around to everything we believe.
God, am I glad I finally escaped the unholy clutches of the Catholic Curuch in the 12th Grade. I have never read such vapid garbage in my life. I am a lifelong Republican who voted for President Obama for a badly needed change away from small mindedness. I was frankly very impressed by Fr. Jenkins introduction. He represesents what little there is left to love and respect in the Catholic Church. I was impressed with the President's speach as well. There were times when I thought that his were some of the same words I would expect from a religious leader who really loved people instead of simply thought of them as tools to maintain the power of their Church. Words that might well have come from their Christ, but certainly not their Pope.
I find it ironic the subject of abortion was raised at a Catholic University named for history's and Christianity's most famous unwed mother. Perhaps Father Jenkins should have asked himself what Our Lady (Notre Dame) would have thought of the abortion debate. She, who willingly took on what was arguably the most important unplanned pregnancy in history. She, who faced censure; ostracism and conceivably death by stoning for what was in her case truly a choice. I am saddened as Catholic Christian that the subject was raised at a commencement address at a school named for the mother of Christ; due solely to the insensitive choice of Father Jenkins, who knew his choice would offend, but went ahead anyway.
Curious that no one was complaining when Bush spoke there years ago... as the governor of Texas, he sentenced many a man to death. Obama's history of community service seems to me very much in line with the teachings of Christianity. Notre Dame should be honored to have him speak on their campus.
Isn't it amazing that the hateful comments are from those who are supposedly Christian? You are all proving what President Obama and Fr. Jenkins are saying. Such hatred accomplishes nothing. The plans Obama has will accomplish so much more to eliminate abortion than all your hatred and rantings. Open your minds people! And BTW, I am a Christian and Pro-Life. I prefer to follow a path that will actually make a difference than one that will only create more hate. I firmly believe the Religious Right is the greatest threat Christianity faces today!
When will Planned Parenthood honor Pope Benedict XVI or one of the bishops of the United States? That would be absurd, wouldn't it?
It is just as absurd for Notre Dame to honor President Obama. Why should a (supposedly) Catholic institution honor someone they completely disagree with on a serious issue? Let him speak, yes, but honor him? No.
Too many people missed Obama's courageously direct statement that the two sides cannot be reconciled. He didn't try to fudge on any "common ground." You had to listen to what he said AFTER that to get the substance of the speech and the essence of the message. (Warning: change in tone here to civil sarcasm.) I thought they should have invited Bush back instead of letting Obama speak. After all, what's 1 million dead Iraqis between "pro-life" friends? Oh, and thanks for telling me I can't be pro-choice and a Catholic. Sorry if I don't want the U.S. government to enforce my belief. on abortion.I really don't believe all sins should be crimes.
I frankly don't care about Notre Dame inviting the president and giving him an honorary degree - it's a school tradition, and he's not the first pro-choice/abortion speaker they've had - but you do NOT let him spout his ideological and political beliefs like he was still on the campaign trail.
A commencement speech is supposed to be about encouraging the graduates as they go out into the world and offering some advice as they join the workforce, NOT about his views on abortion and stem-cell research!!! It was extremely wrong for the school to allow him to do that.
To Brendan: Any (properly) practicing Catholic, and many pro-lifers believe that abortion IS an intrinsically evil thing. That is part of our faith and to try telling us that we're wrong for that belief is not only stupid, but offensive. God has his mind made up on every issue, the flaw in the system is and always has been the human who is interpreting his words. And, in case you didn't know, Catholics believe in a FORGIVING God. If you have true remorse for an action, God will forgive you - it's ALWAYS been this way in the Church! In most cases of abortion, it's a cope out. A woman was stupid enough to get herself pregnant and took the easy way out because she "didn't want the hassle." Also, I'm willing to bet that any "Catholic Agenda pusher" is more willing to have an intelligent discourse that you are.
To #46... you are ignorant of a very important and simple fact: ND is run by the Congregation of the Holy Cross - NOT the Jesuits.
I am a pro-life atheist. I think all life is important. Which is why I was so discouraged with Bush when he showed such a callous disregard for life by urging the US into a war based on lies. How many people have lost their lives over this terrible man's actions. That is is why it is so disappointing to see the few protestors who were out there with their pro life signs, never once mentioned this evil and terrible war that the US has found itself in. And where are the pro lifers in terms of the lives of the planet. All the earth's life is in peril from climate change. Where were the signs urging for respect for every life - plant, animal in addition to human. I think the pro-life christians must extend their view .
I WILL SAY TO REV. JENKINS WHAT I HAVE SAID TO THE PRESIDENT ON HIS EMAIL. IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE THAT YOU HAVE THE POWER TO END WHAT GOD HAS BEGUN THROUGH ABORTION BY ALLOWING OBAMA TO SPEAK THAN I GUESS YOU ARE NOT AFRAID TO FACE YOUR MAKER WHEN YOU DIE.
NO MAN OR WOMAN HAS THE RIGHT TO END WHAT GOD HAS ALLOWED. DON"T YOU DARE CALL YOURSELF A CHRISTIAN! WHERE THERE IS NO ONE STANDING UP AS LEADERS IN THEIR CHURCHES WE AMERICAN CHRISTIANS WILL STAND UP FOR THE UNBORN ''FETUS'' LIFE THAT GOD HAS BEGUN.
Wow! The level of hatred and intolerance expressed by those who claim to follow the teachings love and patience amazes me.
And yet, I believe that Christ would have said (as he did in other circumstances)
Let him who is without sin --------
It's nice to see so many who have not sinned and feel free to take a stronger judgmental position than Christ did
KJR (#6), Warren(#13), Dr. Abella (#19), Kenneth Jones (#26), Stephen the sad (#43),
I want to thank you all for your interest and curiosity about Pro-Life Catholics for Choice. You're more than welcome to read my PLCC 'blog to find out more: http://www.usatoday.com/community/profile.htm?plckPersonaPage=PersonaBlog&plckUserId=5d811832a16fbcb1&UID=5d811832a16fbcb1
The important question to ask is "What sort of policies are actually going to save lives of the very young?" Will they be policies that attack the symptoms of the problem (a woman's access to abortion) or will they be policies that attack the root of the problem (a lack of respect for the lives of the unborn, a lack of protection from unwanted pregnancy, a lack of support by fathers, societal acceptance/pressure for premarital sex, lack of support for single mothers etc. etc.)
The policies that attack the symptoms all involve attempts to control the behavior of desperate or confused women who feel as if they have no legitimate choice for protecting the lives of their children. The policies that attack the root of the problem are all about giving women MORE choice.
It's a mistake to think that the goals of 'life' and the goals of 'choice' are always at odds with each other. After we've confronted the root causes of the barbaric practice of abortion we will have a society where women are able to 'choose life'.
Paul Bradford, Pro-Life Catholics for Choice
Although I approve of the invitation to Obama at ND, I do understand that there are times when an invitation would be abhorrant. Imagine Hitler being honored with a degree from one of the great German universities. One hears a lot of talk about "intrinsic" evil. Is it intrinsically evil to assert falsely that an enemy is ready to "nuke" us and then start and prosecute a war that kills tens of thousands of innocent people? I have to wonder if it is intrinsically evil to persuade people to vote for incompetent politicians who will ruin the country (and maybe the world) in other ways - only because they are "pro-life"? But Obama has to prove he can reduce abortions, or else he's an empty suit.
"There is no such thing as a "pro life Catholic for choice".
If you are pro abortion you cannot call yourself a Catholic. If you are against a basic tenant of the Catholic church you are not a Catholic! That has been made very clear by the American Bishops. " Posted by Manuel Abella MD May 17, 09 07:32
Are these the same American Bishops who protected, shielded from prosecution in the name of public relations, and re-assigned the men who sexually abused the children of the faithful to different churches where they abused even more children? They repeatedly violated the trust and bodies of LIVING children. Should they have not all been excommunicated? How can you profess to care so much for the unborn when you did not rise up and demand that all involved, including the venerated bishops, be removed from their positions and punished by the church and/or the state? You folks who were more embarassed by the scandal than outraged didn't have your priorities straight.
It is not a contradition to be Catholic, pro-life, and pro-choice. While many Catholics would not chose abortion as an option for religious reasons, they also recognize that it is a legal choice in a nation that has citizens of many religious groups who are not subject to the teachings of the Catholic church. As the president pointed out today, there is no need to demonize those who have different views. What I hear posted here is that it is the obligation of every Catholic to hate, disparage, and revile any other human who doesn't share their views on abortion - without exception. What brand of Christianity is that???
Let's lighten up people.Did FatherJenkis not say the Catholic Church does not share President Obama's views on abortion and stem cell research? As a practicing and devout Catholic, I share the views of our Holy Catholic Church. However, should we not open up our minds and hearts to people of opposing views. Let's not polarize ourselves. WhileI have attended or visited Notre Dame, I will always the Fighting Irish as well as ourJesuit brothers ofBoston College.
Paul Bradford - I won't speak for the others but your handle is a contradiction in and of itself, and part of the phony "watering down" of the issue. Its a fraud to call youself a "Pro-life Catholic for Choice". You are no different than Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, Dodd, Leahy, Cuomo, Ferrarro, the bast majority of the Massachusetts legislature.
You handle should be: "Dissenting Catholic who supports legal abortion". That would be more accurate.
As an ex-Catholic who proudly voted for Obama, I must say I'm proud of both Father Jenkins and Obama. I'm sickened by the uber-conservative, hypocritical Catholics on this broad spewing their garbage and calling for the head of Jenkins. Don't you people get it? The Catholic church, more than any other religious institution in the world, is shrinking at a rapid rate. People aren't entering the Priesthood, old members are tired of the stone-age values and logic that the church continues to follow, and people are starting to think for themselves. I think Father Jenkins is attempting to appeal to a new generation of people. If the Catholic church finds more open and accepting Priests like Jenkins, there is hope for the future
As Catholics, can't we hold firm to our beliefs and still be tolerable of others.
We are ND.
"Obama is serving MoveOn, DailyKos, George Sors, Planned Parenthood, NARAL, NOW etc etc etc"
Yeah, and the majority of people who voted in November. Get used to the idea.
Obama just gave the anti-abortion crowd the best advice they've ever had. They'd be wise to take it, and say 'thanks'.
Dr. Hammond (#22),
Whenever people get into a discussion of the human soul they spend a lot of time talking about things they can't prove and don't really understand.
We do, however, understand a little bit about the human body, and a human body can be said to be present from the moment of fertilization. There are, roughly speaking, an average of 1,500 new human bodies produced every hour in the United States and, as you suggested, about 900 never live long enough to become embryos. It's pointless to speculate whether 900 unimplanted blastocysts generate 900 souls in heaven. That, truly, is a question that's above our 'pay grade'.
We can, however, fruitfully investigate whether there is something people can do to improve the chances of bodily survival for the 900. We understand how to deal with bodies and we ought to focus our attention on that. Remember, we once had a pediatric death rate that was much higher than it is now. We improved that survival rate based on improved medicine and health care. We can, by learning more about prenatal medicine and health care, improve the survival rate for the 900 blastocysts that perish every hour.
We simply have to set our minds to the task.
Paul Bradford, Pro-Life Catholics for Choice
A sad chapter for Catholic Higher Ed...A road to Hell has been paved.... Obama is a tool of the Devil and ND took the bait--hook, line and sinker....As for Pro Life Catholics for Choice--you have got to be kidding yourselves!
You have the great saints in heaven Lord - I thank each and every one of them for their love and loyalty to you and I'm sorry that I didn't pray enough and I didn;t do more to help stop what happened today. I am very, very upset and I don't think I can ever forgive Jenkins or McBrien - how can they be priests Lord when they do the devil's work and are leading all those young, foolish people astray. Teach me to forgive Lord because I hate abortion with every fibre of my being.
Maureen Deyo (#53):
You say, "The plans Obama has will accomplish so much more to eliminate abortion than all your hatred and rantings."
After listening to Obama's address (and reading Fr. Jenkins' introduction) I have more hope than ever that there will be a big drop in the abortion rate during Obama's administration. Bigger, even, than the drop we realized during Clinton's administration (which was 17%).
The president has always maintained that we shouldn't extend human rights to previable fetuses. That's why he always talks about reducing the 'need' for abortion rather than reducing abortion. He's careful to avoid saying anything that would concede that there's something about abortion that makes lowering the abortion rate a good thing.
Just the same, though, there's no one in the universe who stands to gain more with a lowering of the abortion rate than Barack H. Obama. If he knows what's good for him -- and I really believe he does -- he's praying more fervently than any Catholic bishop for the care and protection of the unborn.
Paul Bradford, Pro-Life Catholics for Choice
I love how pretty much every commenter who has posted something negative about ND's decision to bring in Obama obviously did not read Fr. Jenkins' speech. They just came to the page to leave their ignorant thoughts. As a member of the ND class of 2006, I'm thrilled to see the university moving forward and refusing to give in to the lunatic ramblings and ravings of those who would ruin it by burying their heads in the sand.
citizen45 (#64)
You say, "It is not a contradition to be Catholic, pro-life, and pro-choice. While many Catholics would not chose abortion as an option for religious reasons, they also recognize that it is a legal choice in a nation that has citizens of many religious groups who are not subject to the teachings of the Catholic church."
Your reasoning is similar to the reasoning our Catholic Vice President, Joe Biden, expressed during the campaign. But I disagree with him.
Pro-Lifers weaken their position whenever they turn concern for the unborn into a "Catholic" issue or a "Christian" issue or a "religious" issue. The best thing to do is to make it a justice issue, or a human rights issue. You don't have to adopt any Catholic beliefs in order to conclude that the very young have as much right to live as you do.
The big issue, for me, is what to do about it. The question isn't whether our society should protect the unborn but how. I'm not satisfied saying, "Well, you Catholics need to follow the Catholic rules and steer clear of abortion but everyone else may do as they please." If I care about people who are growing in the womb of a Catholic woman I should care about people who are growing in the womb of any woman.
Paul Bradford, Pro-Life Catholics for Choice
some of you would fit right in with radical islam.
the same intolerant spouting off hoping to impose catholic sharia on an unsuspecting populace.
I for one am thankful that ND isn't the madrassa of ignorance and hate you would insist it become.
abortion is the woman's choice and the woman's alone. Everybody else needs to stay out of it and keep their big fat mouths shut!
If you are a product of the Class of Notre Dame Lawrence then I am not surprised that the biggest proponent of abortion was given an honorary degree today. Show some respect for your elders by granting them the same courtesy that was extended to Obama. Incidentally, are you a practising catholic - do you in fact attend mass - I guarantee you don't, so do not lecture committeed Christians on their views. You are a disgrace to your class of 2006.
I must say that I have never been more proud to ne an ND student than today. The way that the class of 2009 and the other classes at ND have responded to this "controversy," has been with a respect for all parties and a willingness to look at both sides of the issues. President Obama coming may not have lead to world-wide discussions about abortion between those who support it and those who oppose it, but it did cause intelligent discussion on campus. Even though the majority of students at ND are pro-life, there are some that are pro-choice and everyone was willing to talk and listen to others on their positions. I can't even recall the number of discussions I have had on the topic of abortion since the announcement of President Obama as our commence speaker, but I know it has been many, many more that I have ever had summed throughout my 22 years. My views on abortion were never changed from these discussions and if anything they were solidified, but they allowed me to see and consider others opinions and it allowed us to walk away with a mutual respect for each other and our points of views.
I was never a very big Fr. Jenkins fan (too conservative and uptight) until he invited President Obama to speak and since then my respect for him has only increased and my liking of him has also increased. I commend him for giving a great speech today (might have been more pertanient and better than Obama's) and allowing for all of us to grow in our faith, without violating others, whether they hold our beliefs or not.
I have been Catholic all of my life and these Catholic extremists, who are calling for Fr. Jenkins to be fired and saying that all of us students are going to rot in Hell since we didn't oppose President Obama speaking, are making me wonder if we even have the same faith. My Catholic faith is based in treating all with respect and dignity, as well as serving others, especially those less fortunate. Calling someone the spawn of Satan is not respecting them. To you extremists, try to be more like Jesus and talk and appreciate those who are different from you instead of condemning them. It's amazing what some kindness, compassion, and true caring can do for you and how many people you can actually influence through these actions.
I know Father Jenkins personally and I'll tell you that the LAST things he is are conservative and uptight. He was raised in a large liberal household. He is open to other ideas and schools of thought.
Lawrence is not a disgrace at all. You, O'Hara, on the other hand...
The ugliness of the protests today are a stark reminder that the tragedy of abortion is nothing compared to the violence done to the Gospel when fanatics reduce it to a vote on a single issue.
Respect isn't given, Siobhan, it's earned. And you (and nearly everyone I've talked to who opposed having President Obama speak and receive a degree today) have done exactly nothing to earn it. I'm glad you're quick to assume "how Catholic" I am and how often I attend mass- Lord knows that turning that into some kind of contest is always a good way to win an argument.
There is far too much hatred in the world. I don't believe that the people who made the hateful comments posted follow the teachings of Christ. I am saddened to see that so many Catholics are so hateful and divisive. I applaud Father Jenkins and the University of Notre Dame for inviting the President of the United States. I applaud you for not buckling under pressure. The President of the United States deserves our respect, not our hatred. He is as entitled to his beliefs as is any one of us.
"More than any problem in the arts or sciences - engineering or medicine – easing the hateful divisions between human beings is the supreme challenge of this age. If we can solve this problem, we have a chance to come together and solve all the others." –Fr. Jenkins
I wish that more people would reflect upon Father Jenkins' remarks and be more tolerant of others who may not share our beliefs.
A lot of people seem to think believing in "dialogue" is all that is necessary. They have totally convinced me. This morning I believed that abortion was morally evil, but now I realized I just need to be more open minded and that with "dialogue" we will all heal the division which divides our common purpose under which we all stand ready to do for the nation what it has done for us.
Richard Harry
Pro Life Catholics for Abortion on Demand
Obama has now a doctorate on what exactly?
I guess we should all refer to him as Dr. INFANTICIDE from now on.
The way this Jenkins twisted the words of Gaudium et Spes to benefit his own interest is shameful.
A person like Obama who has no regard for human life should be given no regard. Mr. (not Father) Jenkins. Get it?
Jenkins should be ex-communicated immediately.
A famous Canadian Catholic theologian, Fr. Bernard Lonergan SJ, said before we can begin to discuss things theological, we need to first:
Be attentive
Be intelligent
Be reasonable
Be responsible
Be loving.
Fr. Lonergan was very influential in writing many documents for Vatican II. Being Catholic means being these things in one's relationships with God, others and oneself.
There is no room in Catholic dialogue for slander, hatred or the kind of divisive language I've seen here. Let us first be attentive, intelligent, reasonable, responsible andloving, then converse.
To Meghan regarding her comment:
Posted by May 17, 09 11:03 PM
Sweetie I have news for you. YOU ARE NOT CATHOLIC.
He supported infanticide not once, but 4 times. What don't you get about that?
Respect is earned. And tell me, does a politician who denies the care of mostly already wounded babies who survived an abortion without anesthesia and who were left to die a slow painful death deserves respect or deserves to be challenged?
Like I stated before. A person, no matter who it is, that has no regard for human life should be given no regard.
Slavery was legal, (and intrinsically evil as well) so this non-sense about "oh, I am personally against it, but it is legal, blah blah blah, is nonsense.
Legality does not make it moral (except to the secularists like ontheleft and others).
As I stated earlier, so long as your mind cannot distinguish between the Church defined and unequivocal intrinsic evil of abortion from other important issues, you are missing the point.
There is no gray area when it comes to abortion and Father Jenkins making this sound like his way of opening the dialog is blasphemy. If he wants Obama to speak then so be it, but don't pretend his intent was to open a dialog. Obama could not answer the abortion question pre-election and got elected, so why should he change his beliefs now?
Jesus preached love thy neighbor and that was it. He didn't preach love thy neighbor, unless she had an abortion. He didn't preach love thy neighbor, unless he or she is gay. He said LOVE! Any so-called Christian who uses the words of Christ to preach hatred and divide us as humans is very simply, MAKING A MOCKERY OF JESUS HIMSELF. Wake up false Christians.
The extremely high level of hatred shown by the people who claim to follow Christian Catholic teachings is pretty disappointing.
To Numbers 68 and 80 (and the others who have said similar things): thank you for demonstrating true Christian values.
To all the people who are demanding that Fr. Jenkins be fired, and suggesting that President Obama is pure evil, and that all who do not agree with you on these issues is automatically going to hell: I would ask you to take a moment to ask yourself if you are actually living as Jesus Christ commands (with love and respect for all people including those we consider enemies) but I don't think you will , because you don't seem even remotely interested in actually discussing these issues with anyone who may disagree with you. Did you even read Fr. Jenkin's speech or did you just jump on so you could call for his resignation and send himn to hell?
Obama was only filling his responsibility to speak at Notre Dame. The fact that he was invited is the problem. The Catholic Church should reconsider their leadership in this case.
Obama should not have been invited and this will only further destroy the Church by making impressionable teens think their leadership is confused or stupid when it comes to who should speak at such events. Too bad for the students.
No matter what the issue and no matter who is right or wrong, we have to 'obey Jesus'commands' namely 'love your enemy', 'pray for your enemy', 'do good deeds for / to your enemy'. St Paul follows up with a very clear definition of what the attributes of love are: kind, gentle, not puffed up, not holding grudges, speaks no evil, etc.' Also, this past week, Pope Benedict spent a lot of time preaching about 'peace, the use of reason, listening and dialoging respectfully. Let us pursue finding out the root causes of the decision to abort and work to changing those circumstances. The biggest problems are actually beneath the surface.
I'm surprised as always at the heat and discomfort that is created by a simple statement truth. That truth, by the way, is that unborn children are human beings as you and I are human beings and have the same intrinsic right to life and breath as we do. The fact that babies inhabit the mother's body (as all of you at one time did) does not make them either less human or less intimately deserving of life. They are full human beings from the moment of conception. There is no magic spark which confers humanity 6 weeks or 3 months later. The power of a mother to do her child harm does not confer the right. Just as we cannot kill our neighbor simply because we are able and find them difficult or troubling.
The absurdity of some of the remarks here amaze me, such as "if you don't want an abortion, don't have one." (an old,still stupid response). To see how absurd this is, try a little substitution. "If you don't like murder, don't kill anyone." (or) "If you don't want slaves, don't get one." Remarks like this are a symptom of the extreme narcissism of our society. To people like this all moral good has to stand up to that most stringent of all laws, the law of self. Is it good for me? Do I like it? Will it further my life. What do I want? Huh...glad my life doesn't yet depend upon this kind of reasoning.
I am aghast at the ignorance and hate spewed by all of the so called "Christians" in these posts. Unbelievable! It is no wonder the world will march on without you. "Burn him at the stake?" Really? Is that what your Christianity teaches you? Having been raised Catholic my entire life, I am in disbelief of the sentiments from the majority of you. Where were your blood thirsty cries when Bush spoke there a few years back? Though he's anti-abortion and against stem cell research - did you all bemoan the thousands upon thousands whose blood is on his hands from the war in Iraq? Your venom sickens me, and I would pray for your heart to open and tolerance to prevail - but your ignorance is far too rooted. Sad.
"it is about honoring a man who enables evil. Lord have mercy on us."
Posted by KJR May 17, 09 07:01 PM
KJR, you supported Bush the 21st century Butcher of Baghdad and Torturer In Chief, right? And you support the Vatican and the Catholic hierarchy, right? The same Vatican and hierarchy that aided and abetted the rape of thousands of innocent kids. You have spent years enabling evil. You casually disregard of war and torture and then claim that others are evil? You'd best ask for mercy for your own soul.
"Its a fraud to call youself a "Pro-life Catholic for Choice". You are no different than Kennedy, Kerry, Pelosi, Dodd, Leahy, Cuomo, Ferrarro, the bast majority of the Massachusetts legislature. You handle should be: "Dissenting Catholic who supports legal abortion". That would be more accurate."
Posted by KJR May 17, 09 10:05 PM
Do you ever tire of your unbounded arrogance, KJR? Who the hell are you to question anyone's beliefs? Mr. Bradford hardly needs your approval of his Catholicism. You remain the very embodiment of the "whitened sepulchre", and it is you who is an utter fraud. You claim to follow a man of peace while supporting war and torture. Amazing hubris on your part.
As a Boston native and Notre Dame Alumnus, I am very proud to have Fr. Jenkins as Notre Dame's President. If Notre Dame wants to continue to show that is it a premier national university then it needs to encourage open dialogue - that is what great universities do. Just think about all the conversations that occurred in dorm rooms and around kitchen tables over the past couple months as a result of President Obama's visit to South Bend. This is exactly what Universities should be doing - encouraging constructive engagement in an educational environment. Some individuals wish that Notre Dame didn't extend Obama an honorary degree, and I understand that. It's clear that Notre Dame recognizes that encouraging constructive engagement of conflict is a crucial characteristic that all great universities must possess...and I believe that Fr. Jenkins respects President Obama's ability to effectively communicate with those that don't necessarily agree with him.
I am proud of my Notre Dame affiliation and hopeful that under the current leadership it will continue to make me proud.
GO IRISH.
"If you want to be pro choice, then you are not a practicing catholic. End of story."
Posted by Warren May 17, 09 07:19 PM
And so Warren has spoken and all must obey. Actually, Warren, I know lots of pro-choice practicing Catholics, and they are far more in tune with the teachings of one Jesus of Nazareth than any of you on the right will likely ever be.
Abortion is not just the intrinsic evil that the Catholic Church teaches against. It is, first of all, a violation of Natural Law. It follows that a president who espouses unnatural behaviors, i.e., infanticide, homosexuality, cloning for human parts, etc. should not be honored by those who respect the law of nature.
You cannot dialogue with someone who has no respect for nature, no matter how charming. And to confer an honorary degree to someone who violates nature is an insult against God, nature, and all that is good. Fr. Jenkins has it all wrong.
Notre Shame
The president deceitfully spoke about "stem cell research," pretending that all his opponents are against all stem cell research, when he knows that Catholics and others are only against Embryonic research, not adult or umbilical cord, both of which have proven of more practical use so far. Catholics and others are against embryonic stem cell research because it uses, it instrumentalizes, one person for the use of another person, and that first person was not able to give consent.
The prez also spoke of "reducing unwanted pregnancies." Do you think he meant chastity until marriage for the ND kids, or artificial contraception, which is against Catholic doctrine even if it is used by the majority of Catholics?
Notre Shame.
People, let us not be hypocrites! Let’s see who among those priests & bishops who are so vocal about pro-birth / pro-life that do not have illicit relationships with men or women. And what do these pro-life priests advice their girlfriends (prostitutes) when their girlfriends get pregnant? ABORTION! This is really true.
Conservative Catholic, as pointed out, it is not the liberal Jesuits who staff Notre Shame, it is the equally liberal Holy Cross Fathers, who also staff Stonehill, so boycott them too, and do not send them your kids, grandkids, neices, nephews nor money.
Michael @ # 60, and many others say: "Wow! The level of hatred and intolerance expressed by those who claim to follow the teachings love and patience amazes me." There's an old Catholic saying that goes back at least to St. Augustine: Love the sinner, hate the sin." So we love you, Fr. Jenkins, President Obama etc. enough to tell that you're opinion on abortion is wrong, sinful, and endangers your immortal soul. That is not hateful, that is loving and tolerant in its deepest, not your shallow, meaning. Besides, there are many intolerant remarks from the lib side too, e.g., #78
"abortion is the woman's choice and the woman's alone. Everybody else needs to stay out of it and keep their big fat mouths shut!"
The slogan "we are ND" is about unintelligently contentless as "yes we can" and "change we can believe in." Any ND grad who spouts that slogan
should demand their parents' money back.
Lonerganian @ #88,
"Fr. Lonergan was very influential in writing many documents for Vatican II." Bernard Lonergan certainly did not "write" any of the Vat. II documents. The bishops of the Council did, with the help of expert theologians, of whom Lonergan was not one, simply because he was a philosopher, not a theologian. Back to school, you.
Peter @#54. excellent retort:
"When will Planned Parenthood honor Pope Benedict XVI or one of the bishops of the United States? That would be absurd, wouldn't it?
"It is just as absurd for Notre Dame to honor President Obama. Why should a (supposedly) Catholic institution honor someone they completely disagree with on a serious issue? Let him speak, yes, but honor him? No."
Typical leftie hypocrisy "do as they say, not as they do." No, on second thought, don't do as they say either.
It's the same old back and forth on these blogs with respect to this issue. Obviously we live in America and have the right to disagree. I just hope those who are pro choice would understand that to those of us who are against abortion believe in our hearts and minds that killing the unborn is the same as killing a one day, one week, or one year old. It has nothing to do with an agenda. So for us we no more believe it's OK for a pro choice person to receive and award at a Catholic University then it would be for someone who would feel a person has the right to kill their born child. IF you disagree that again is your right but I would at least feel you could understand our position. Most abortions occurr when the unborn child looks entirely like a small human and I would find it hard to believe people couldn't understand how the act of an abortion could horrify an individual. What bothers me is the pro choice individuals who won't even educate themselves on the actual procedure. As someone said in a past blog I strongly urge you to check out silentscream.org
Peace and Blessings
I was in Maine when Rose Kennedy's funeral was televised and I watched with horror as Cardinal Law gave Ted Kennedy and his second wife the host. I felt the same reaction yesterday as I watched Obama and Jenkins on the stage together. When evil is involved there is always disquiet in a person's soul. Cardinal Law ended his days in disgrace and I have no doubt the same will happen to Jenkins - whether in this life or the next and for his sake I truly hope it is in this world. Abortion is the most grevious of all sins. We know the truth and we are required always, always to do the right thing by God.
What courage did Obama show by going to ND? He spoke before faculty who voted for him and students who voted for him. He obtained political advantage by using the prestige of ND to cloak his nefarious deeds in Catholic sanctity.
Science clearly shows that human life begins at conception. By supporting abortion, Obama advances an anti-science, anti-life agenda that results in the powerful oppressing the powerless. He should be ashamed of himself, as should Fr. Jenkins.
The Pro-Life movement has to ultimately be about a conversion of hearts; it has been overlooked and absent in these postings that yesterday's liturgical readings proclaimed that "God is Love".
If we continue to perpetuate a vitriolic discourse in attempts to save and promote the humanity of all life, we have failed. In this Pauline year, we should look to our tradition-- our tradition of conversion-- of men and women like St. Paul having a conversion of hearts when they have experienced the God of Love.
Fr. Jenkins quite clearly noted Obama's policies are anathema to Catholic teaching, but his message to approach the table with another who may not share your convictions is an endorsement of the Gospel message- a chance for salvation and redemption.
During this season of Easter let us remember that Christ came to save us all, and in his time here to whom did he reach out to most? Not the self-righteous, the public pious, but rather the weak, the sinners, the ostracized. We must as Catholics be beacons of light for those people in life who are at a crossroads; President Obama is one of those. We must pray for his conversion of heart, and the hearts of all men, that all life is precious. Obama's closing remarks actually harkens to possibly his greatest flaw in his policy and comments; he espouses a dignity to be extended to all people's, yet neglects to truly recognize the significance of the dignity of the life of all.
This is where Fr. Jenkins message should ring most true; let us create an environment where President Obama and others who share his beliefs might be treated with Christ's love. Let us pray that through interactions with those of us who try to serve Him and be reflections-- beacons of light-- of his Glory that Christ is seen in us and a conversion of hearts might take place- for the benefit of the person with whom we are in contact, and for the respect and dignity of all human life.
For us Catholics, that is truly what God has intended- for us to love our neighbor and to serve Him by loving; hate the sin, not the sinner. Let us pray that yesterday fosters a sense of love, not hate, and as God is Love I pray that hearts will be converted and that the sins and transgressions that all of us are guilty may be made revealed to us, and we ask for His forgiveness and to be reconciled with Him.
I truly believe If that is what we all prayed, and how we all tried to serve Him, life would be preserved and cherished. Will it happen overnight, in a decade, a century? Even if there is only one person who is converted because of His love as evidenced through our actions, that is one more life that has been preserved, and it has been worthy.
Pray for all life, live as Christ lived, ask for the forgiveness of one's sins, and love thy neighbor. When at the crossroads, may His light guide and His love manifest in you.
Yours in Christ love and peace. We are ND!
The Catholic Church - and Jesus, in Matthew 19:8 and other verses makes it clear that he agrees - that Divorce is wrong.
Therefore, Notre Dame should only allow speakers who support a federal constitutional amendment to outlaw Divorce.
Anything less than enthusiastic endorsement of this divorce-is-illegal amendment is proof that the speaker does not share Catholic principles.
To #56 whose comment was...
"In most cases of abortion, it's a cope out. A woman was stupid enough to get herself pregnant and took the easy way out because she 'didn't want the hassle.' Also, I'm willing to bet that any 'Catholic Agenda pusher' is more willing to have an intelligent discourse than you are..."
Your comments prove that you may not be qualified to have an intelligent discourse. The attitude displayed in your statement "a woman was stupid enough to get herself pregnant" only serves to underscore one of the problems with many "pro-life" supporters. It takes TWO people to create a pregnancy. Until people like yourself focus their moral certitude on fostering a culture that understands that the males of the species ALSO bear responsibility for the choices that they make, there will continue to be unwanted pregnancies.
Gee - does the Catholic Church stand for anything anymore? I mean if Father Jenkins subjectively wants to vote for Obama - okie dokie with all free thinking Americans - but he cannot seriously AWARD and COMMEND in the context of representing the Catholic Church and its membership that Obama is a man of religious conviction, of pure intent, of racial tolerance and love for others, when Obama's personal 20 year long record of membership in a Christian Church has been recorded to be choosing the most offensive and racially intolerant of one's - headed by controversial Jeremiah Wright.
"Science clearly shows that human life begins at conception. By supporting abortion, Obama advances an anti-science, anti-life agenda that results in the powerful oppressing the powerless."
Posted by Batman May 18, 09 11:04 AM
Except that science shows no such thing, but instead indicates that ensoulment occurs at the end of the second trimester with independent brain waves. You claim that the Catholic Church is pro-science? Is that based on the 360 years it took them to acknowledge their errors in the Galileo matter? I'm presuming that you're yet another right wing Republican voter. Presuming that you supported Bush and McCain, you actually want to accuse others of being anti-life, anti-science and favoring the powerful at the expense of the powerless? Were you asleep during the Bush administration?
"Typical leftie hypocrisy 'do as they say, not as they do.'"
Posted by gaudete May 18, 09 10:06 AM
Right, gaudete, coming from a far rightie who votes for the mass murderers and torturers who instigate war for profit, those who callously torture prisoners in the hopes that the tortured will give them the answers they want to justify their war. What's your opinion of Dick Cheney, gaudete? Tell us all, from your perch on the far right, what a decent man you think he is, this sick, sadistic excuse for a human being who apparently authorized the use of brutality against prisoners in violation of US and international law, and in violation of all standards of human decency. Can we presume that you voted for him, gaudete? Talk about hypocrisy - sanctimony and moral denunciation from those who glory in the mass murder of those who are born.
Posted by Loreann May 18, 09 12:32 PM
Loreann, you belong to a church whose hierarchy sanctioned the rape of children. Now I'm damned certain Jeremiah Wright never did that. However, based on your post, should we impugn your "religious convictions", your "pure intent", your "tolerance and love of others", as you do with the president, based on your association with that church and its hierarchy? It only seems fair that we do, wouldn't you agree? If you want to make association an issue, your own associations are equally an issue.
In America, we all know it is God before Country. That is the way the founders saw it before us, maybe that's why our motto is "In God We Trust". The University of Notre Dame belongs as part of the "Body of Christ", not of the body politic. Obama's speech is ingeniously divisive. No true Catholic is independent of God and his Church. Morals can not be separated from politics. No woman or man or state, except for a just war, has the power over life and death, especially over the innocent life of their own offspring.
Reading all of these comments was like having your
toilet overflow.
ontheleft: May 18, 09 01:14 PM:
"Except that science shows no such thing, but instead indicates that ensoulment occurs at the end of the second trimester with independent brain waves. You claim that the Catholic Church is pro-science? "
Wow ontheleft, science proves this? When, where? Do you have pictures of this ensoulment? is it on YouTube?
But for the purposes of this blog, since that is where you are, will you now condemn all third terms and partial birth abortion? It would be a start...
Batman,
Below is part of OnTheLefts comment
I'm presuming that you're yet another right wing Republican voter. Presuming that you supported Bush and McCain, you actually want to accuse others of being anti-life, anti-science and favoring the powerful at the expense of the powerless? Were you asleep during the Bush administration?
You should feel truly blessed that Mr, Mrs or Miss Left can now determine all your beliefs and everything about you just from reading one post. He has figured out that all practicing Catholic love war and torture and that anyone whom believes abortion to be murder is totally unreasonable. The Pope and all his henchmen hate women and homosexuals and are only interested in amassing a fortune and hurting others. I believe this all comes from his deep prayer life and study of the Bible and the Catechism.
Obama honors the Holy Spirit in everything he said in this address. We cannot have a world where one religious group enforces its beliefs on other religious groups -- and "religions do not agree on abortion". Obama's words -- "We are all fishermen" -- are a heroic and beautiful statement, true to the depest intent of Jesus Christ.
What religions teach abortion is OK?