Voice of the Faithful raises cash, survives

There is the hand of God at work!

VOTF did the same as the directors of the zoos in MA did, hold a gun to its own head, and threaten to shoot unless someone ponied up the cash. It worked this time, as it did for the zoo.

But i don't think that tactic works forever. VOTF is getting noticeably grayer, but the Church baptizes millions of orthodox faithful every year.

Being "faithful" is pointless.

"But i don't think that tactic works forever. VOTF is getting noticeably grayer, but the Church baptizes millions of orthodox faithful every year."

BINGO, gaudete, and those most faithful and orthodox are those from other faith tradtions who have been receptive to the grace of seeing the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church. In our experience, the newly baptized adults and young adults are awesome..

As someone said on this board... VOTF will be a footnote in the not too distant future, as another "Call to action" group in disguise to promote is dissent of social teaching. The Woodstock crowd is on the way out, and thank God for that...

Ah, KJR, back to your "everyone who disagrees with me is a dissenter" meme, I see. BTW, is it you that you're quoting in #4? I ask because I remember the quote, but I could be wrong about the source. As for "one, holy", etc., really, most of its history, including its disgustingly immoral reaction to pedophilia, would tend to severely contradict the "one, holy" claim. As for the "Woodstock crowd", yeah, Jesus sure would hate that "peace and love" stuff, wouldn't he? He'd much have preferred war and torture, right? But then again, maybe it's those like you who are the dissenters here, as opposed to that bunch of "hippies" who actually walk the walk and think for themselves (what you all used to call "using one's God-given brain") while they're at it. And, Gaudete, speaking of "gun to the head", didn't your archdiocese do something similar with parish and school closings, or with the reassignment of priests who publicly expressed their disgust with those responsible for child rape, and those who enabled it by covering it up?

KJR, I'll now wait for your hysterical reaction - don't forget to brand me as a "hater" who "dislikes authority" (as if your church actually has any, civil, moral, or otherwise). And, of course, the bits about conversion.

ontheleft - if you were educated about some things, you would know I was quoting the Nicene Creed from cir. 325 ad.. regarding the "one, holy, catholic and apostolic church."

You are still confused... it who disagrees with defined Church teaching who is a dissenter. That is the definition of dissent.

Not sure Jesus would agree with the sex and drugs, and "question authority" (especially when he gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom and power to "bind and loose on earth), which you do. You reject the authority that Jesus gave to Peter in Matt Ch 16. Oh,, wait, I guess that does mean that you are a dissenter... funny how that shook out.

Looks like you are getting to know yourself, ontheleft... that is a good start.

Where have you been? I find you more honest than David Long... even though we are polar opposites. In fact, you and I agree with each other on that point that he categorically rejects, ie, that God exists... Why don't you take a whack at him on that point. That would be enjoyable to watch..

Dear "On The Left"

Of course Jesus was in favor of peace and love, but His definition of it, would be far different from that which the children of the 60's envisaged. It was not a permissive love where everyone was accepted as they were and stayed as they were. Jesus loved sinners, He hung around with sinners, and yes he partied with sinners. The key however was that whenever he encountered a sinner, his response was not "Hey groovy sins you're piling on, keep at it, live it!" rather He more soberly would respond with something along the lines of "Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more.

Peace is not blind acceptance and coexistence. It rather involves struggle, true peace is only reached when all persons and their actions are oriented towards the truth.
Love is not coddling, smothering permissiveness. Rather it is desiring the best for the other person, even if that involves pain, purification and sacrifice.

Let’s stop pretending that Jesus was the kind of guy that would have taken a toke on the bong, and let us remember that He is almighty God, who was incarnated and died for the forgiveness of our sins and our salvation. Yes He knew how to laugh, yes he understood humanity, but because of that, He called us to so much more.

Going back to the point of Michael’s blog post though… I hope hat the VOTFers find something beneficial in their mission and don’t simply become another quickly dying group which has forgotten that the Church’s purpose is to bring us to Heaven, and instead seek to build a church in their image and have a grand time in this life without thinking of the life to come!

As I've said dozens of times on this blog, VOTF and similar organizations and individual Church members had a major gripe, as did KJR and I with the child abusers and the hierarchs who bungled the disciplining of those involved. But that has now been fixed, although no one can guarantee it will never happen again in a few isolated instances, given original and personal sin. But everyone is on the lookout like hawks for any such criminal behavior, and no one any longer is under the illusion that pedophiles can be cured by psychology. In fact, now with priests, the presumption has swung to 'guilty until proven innocent.'

But the Church is a family, the family of Jesus Christ, and this family needs all hands on deck. We can use, even if we don't always like, prophetic voices within the community, rather than forming a parachurch next to the family. that was the sad lesson of Luther et al, who had very legitimate complaints about many abuses in the Church, but such matters are best addressed from within, rather than forming an adversarial bloc as if the Church was the US Congress.

Last night obama (you remember who he is) called someone a "stuped". he aught to know since only a stuped recognizes another stuped. so can i say that all the people of boston are "stuped". it was the president who was talking and he knows. The same with the priest, the Catholic church etc. no matter what the subject is in this blog, the few abuses of the church come up. All are recognized under the same title. Wake up. The Catholic Church is the Church of the Lord.

ontheleft,

Welcome back my friend. Are you ready to answer my question now. I'll copy and paste below.

That didn't answer my question however. Let's try it again.
You have said you believe an unborn child (or whatever you like to refer to it as) is at some point viable outside of the womb, has brain waves, and a soul. Lets' say six months. Do you therefore believe if there is no threat to the life/health of the mother after this point that an abortion at this point or later in the pregnancy is morally wrong.
I believe your afraid to answer yes or no even though it is clearly a yes or no question. Of course expanding on your answer is welcome of course.
If you say yes then you become one of your so called antichoicers. You believe in choice up until a certain time of the pregnancy.
If you say no then your whole argument about when brain waves occur and a soul is present becomes mute.
Of course I might be wrong but won't know until you answer the question which you most certainly did not do.

Peace and Blessings

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater, that is exactly what Luther did. He seized on a political climate against the Church and the other so-called "reformers" grabbed the opportunity to usurp doctrinal authority under the guise of "sola scriptura". It was perfect. Deem the bible as the sole source of teaching authority and you have a big Rorschach ink blot to advance your social and agenda.

VOTF's stated purpose is noble. But it, like "Call to Action", it is infected with ideology intended to undermine Church social teaching. Democratize the Church, and just ignore that pesky little Matthew Ch 16 stuff... the sooner it folds, the better.

Posted by sednuf July 23, 09 10:23 AM

Whom did Obama call stupid? Did you read the quote? All of it? Including the bits before and after? You know, the entire question and its entire answer? No, I didn't think so.

Posted by KJR July 22, 09 06:56 PM

KJR, you're making the assumption that your church is somehow a legitimate authority. It is not, either politically or morally. So one does not "dissent" from its positions, any more than one "dissents" from a DNC or RNC position. The nicene creed is irrelevant to those of us who don't believe in your religion. But, again, I find that right wing "christians" surely dissent from the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, given that they claim to follow his teachings. As for David's points, I find his points to be quite salient and well said. Frankly, whether or not a supreme being or beings exist, organized religion serves to drive an awful lot of people away from consideration of such a thing. What the Nazarene referred to as "wolves in sheep's clothing", if memory serves.

Posted by proud2bcatholic July 23, 09 10:37 AM

I have said repeatedly that Roe v Wade was decided very wisely. And I'd venture that the vast majority of pro-choicers agree. And no woman should be forced to surrender her life or her health. I have repeatedly answered your question.

"Democratize the Church, and just ignore that pesky little Matthew Ch 16 stuff... the sooner it folds, the better."
Posted by KJR July 23, 09 10:57 AM

Self-determination is the key to fundamental human dignity. Your church in its early days functioned as a pretty democratic institution, especially in the context of its environs. Power was usurped centuries ago. Despots do abhor giving up their power, don't they? Hell, Pius IX demanded infallibility in his every utterance after he lost the Papal States. Are you afraid of democracy?

Posted by Colin July 22, 09 08:03 PM

Your theories about what Jesus was and what he would do are nothing more than theories. You seem, like many conservatives, to be unable to get past Leviticus. My suspicion is that Jesus got past that.

yes, ontheleft, and you too ignore that pesky little Matt Ch 16 stuff - directly from Jesus himself.