Income tax repeal defeated at the polls

we sent a message: "We care more about our schools than our pocketbooks!"
YAY!

In response to the comment by Bernie Friesecke that "no one's ever telling you that we've got corruption and spending on stuff we don't need, in huge quantities...": you're right, so you don't you tell us? I haven't read or heard a single thing telling voters where the waste is or how getting rid of the tax would solve the problem of corruption and overspending. Tell us! Please....no one likes or wants corruption and overspending, but we also don't want to take out our anger on the elderly, the poor, the disabled, education, etc. So if you you're sure those services will not be cut and property taxes will not be raised, then tell us HOW. I'm amazed at how many people are willing to vote to eliminate the tax w/out actually knowing anything about it. I'm also amazed at how many people are willing to throw their own neighbors into the fire, for the "sake of change".

Common sense prevails! Thank goodness!

awsome

I can't understand for the life of me why people want to give their hard earned money away so someone else can spend it. So what if my property tax goes up. My understanding is that 60% of state revenue comes from other places. Why are tax payers asked to buckle down, spend less and work harder for that dollar when the state can't tighten their belts?

Absolutely disgusting that propaganda determines an issue this important. By posting dubious figures and slanting facts (i.e., the budget calculator that gives you a small amount of categories to cut and does not allow voters to see the particular wasteful projects within each category), the opponents of Question 1 (the people benefiting from the corruption) sway voters who are unable to think for themselves through expensive brainwashing. Incredibly disappointing...

If you lose your job, you don't pay an income tax. Your property tax still needs to get paid. It doesn't care that you don't have an income.

The MA voters have just OK'd them to spend, spend, spend!

Congratulations to the unions who spent millions of dollars to beat Q1 and keep stuffing their faces at the public trough. Next time a unionized anything wants my donation--ha! No money for cops, no money for schools. Since you've got license to steal via my taxes, you don't get my charity.

I gave last year to Mass SP and my town's police charity. This year, I'll send the $30 each that would have gone to those two to Carla Howell if there are left over debts from Q1 campaign.

Would you trust someone without any business skills or solid investing experience to manage your hard earned money? Well apparently you did by voting not to repeal the income tax.

Letting a politician manage our money is like letting a plumber operate on our heart. Neither one has any business doing it.

Wouldn't that provide a great incentive to get another job, rather than leech off unemployment? Also, while this Question may not have been the best way to address corruption, doesn't it need to be addressed? Do you know that Toll Collectors in MA make $70,000 a year? Do you think they are almost twice as valuable to our state as teachers? There are many other examples of poorly spent tax dollars, but they all point to the fact that the state budget needs to be closely examined, as it would be if the available budget were to be reduced. Because the budget is unlikely to be examined unless the issue is forced, this Question needed to be approved.

The question wouldn't have had the impact desired. If the state can't get money through an income tax, they could do it through new property taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes ...one way or another, the government would fund itself. Those taxes would hit lower-income residents harder.

I'm all for less corruption and better spending practices (police detail, anyone?), but I'd rather a comprehensive plan and not a budgetary train wreck.

Four years ago i was all for either reducing or eliminating the income tax in massachuetts but, with people like rep DeMasi and a govenor who created a situation where this state was spending money it doesn't have we have no choice but to keep the income tax alive in this state . My Advice for the people who want to get rid of the income tax my advice is this , Clean up the state Goverment corruption that is what really needs to be done

I can't believe the overtaxed, barely existing working people in this state voted against a repeal of state taxes- Don't these people realize that the only diference is politicians would get to steal and waste less of our money?
Now they can go back to planning their vacation home upgrades and trips and parties, while we eat and heat less each month!
Do we see any good roads, safe bridges, more police on the street, reopened fire departments? Then what the hell do you think we're subsidizing?

Here's the real deal, I work hard to pay my bills and provide for my family to live a decent life, I have the greatest respect for those who need help and are not able to help themselves. If I can help those people I do, the real problem is government, both on a state and countrywide level, I contribute to my future pension and pay a decent portion of my medical expenses, WHY do I have to pay for everyone's full medical and full pension plans in the state and the country without them contributing, that is beyond belief. People are you blind, let's have those with such great benefits contribute a fair share, then let's take care of those people who risk their lives for our freedom. It's not rocket science, we are AMERICANS

If people do not want to pay income tax in MA- move to another state. People want the benefits of living in MA without having to pay for it.

To all of those who supported this stupid, regressive ballot question, maybe you should reconsider your position. When voters reject an idea by such a large margin, maybe IT ISN'T A GOOD IDEA!!!!

The fact of the matter is, income taxes pay for roads, prisons, fire, schools and health care. If you don't like paying income tax, then stop working!!!! You will find out real quick that people who don't work aren't getting the free ride you thought. Let's hope this issue goes away and never comes back. Let's have some sanity people.

This has NOTHING to do with property tax. That is determined on a local level. You are all a bunch of fools for thinking that your property taxes would have gone up. Apples and oranges folks.

There actually is a nice new Fire Department in Malden/Revere.

I have moved to another state just for this reason. Massachusetts is a bureaucratic dinosaur state with NO benefits in return for being over taxed and over regulated to death. Unless you work for the government,...good luck trying to survive in the peoples republic of Mass! Deval Patrick is the patron saint of a very anti small business state!

Hey yes to income tax

What benefits are you talking about? Letting the mafia determine government contracts on 20 billion dollar projects? Or do you mean having local sports teams used to sell every piece of crap product there is? Or do you mean how old buddy politics gets Whitey Bulgers brother at the head of U MASS? Or do you mean the terrible looking women with their crappy attitudes? Or do you mean having the local politicians taking bribes? That is exactly why I moved to Caly, at lest if I get mugged by the policicians, at least I see hot chicks...

Smarten up, why in thw world would you trust someone else with your money? If thats the case, how bout investing 20 k in my new business.

Hey yes to income tax

What benefits are you talking about? Letting the mafia determine government contracts on 20 billion dollar projects? Or do you mean having local sports teams used to sell every piece of crap product there is? Or do you mean how old buddy politics gets Whitey Bulgers brother at the head of U MASS? Or do you mean the terrible looking women with their crappy attitudes? Or do you mean having the local politicians taking bribes? That is exactly why I moved to Caly, at lest if I get mugged by the policicians, at least I see hot chicks...

Smarten up, why in thw world would you trust someone else with your money? If thats the case, how bout investing 20 k in my new business.

Just hope the sheeple of Massachusetts have realized that they have given Beacon Hill carte blanche to run rampant over us. How long before they start talking about hiking the income tax to 5.9%. I predict tomorrow. But hey don't worry...your property taxes will still go up...and Lowell will still have crappy schools.

Color me surprised. Not.

Folks, we live in the most liberal state in the country. Did anyone really think the citizens would vote to repeal the income tax? Believe this - if the people of Massachusetts could vote to INCREASE the income tax, they'd do it happily. People in this state love to give their money away to corrupt politicians. They continually vote them into office and continually line their pockets with cash. It will never change here. Make your peace with it or move to a state where sanity exists.

Isn't it possible that the voters may have rejected the idea based on a lack of information? For example, a large portion of funding for the aforementioned categories comes from federal funding, which would not be affected by these cuts. Therefore, the actual budget cuts would actually only be a relatively small percentage of the total budget and not the Armageddon that it has been portrayed as. Perhaps budget cuts would have forced reform. Reform would have brought to light things like Toll Collectors ($70,000) making nearly twice as much as teachers ($42,000), Policemen making over $100,000 dollars/year by working "overtime" sitting at a construction site, and other such issues.

By saying "No," we have effectively told the state to keep taking money from us and using it to pay for police details, curtains, tollbooth operators' fat pensions,etc.

Do you think the state would have repealed the tax if we had voted "Yes"? Of course not, but an important message would have been sent.

The budget needs to be fixed, regardless.

Massachusetts has become the land of the idiots. It's definitely time for my family and me to move. So long idiots!

I don't enjoy paying the 5% tax either, but before I'm going to make a significant change I'd like a proposal that's better thought out and based on more solid analysis than a phone survey that asks people "what percentage of the state budget is wasted?".

If the college intern came to me with this level of "analysis" I'd have them to pack up and leave.

When a serious proposal comes up, people will treat it seriously.

Good work Mass, you behaved exactly as I thought you would. Listen to the baloney TV ads talking about how our hospitals will close while pictures of sad senior citizens fly by.
I guess in response to this overwhelming vote to keep the thorn in our sides, i'll stop donating to my favorite local charities.

Want to know where your money goes? How about a $58,000 salary to a PRE-SCHOOL, yes folks... PRE-school teacher in the town of Douglas. Do you earn $58k a year? Didn't think so. Outraged? So am i!

Listen up Mass.

You want to live without income tax? Do what we did in NV.

Legalize prostitution and gambling. Then you can give up your paltry (yes, it's a tiny sum) state income tax bill.

Seriously, I paid more in CA for income tax. Are you guys kidding me with this? Did any of the supporters of this realize that the lost income would be recovered in increases to property taxes amongst other things?

Silly.

$10 says that pre-school teacher has more of an impact, and societal value than whatever the hell it is that Julia does.

$58k is a paltry sum in this day and age anyway.

Any cut in funding that is not tied to specific cuts in spending is just asking for trouble. The promise of an end to wasteful spending without any negative consequences was nothing but wishful thinking. Governments don't let little matters like funding cuts impact their wasteful spending; it just makes them more creative about how they get the money out of the citizens. Come up with a plan to reduce or eliminate the income tax that doesn't read like some naive adolescent fantasy and I'll support it.

to julia and david chang,
I think EVERYBODY is underpaid. But if you so think pre-k teachers, toll collectors and policemen are overpaid, you're more than welcome to join the workforce and take on these jobs.

If you're dumb enough to think that the state government would fall apart without taking your money, then you get what you deserve. Grow a pair you mindless zombies.

Although perhaps well meaning, the attempt was very poorly thought out giving the opponents an easy target from fear of a rise in property taxes to offset the lost money that would go to the cities and town. If you get a cut in income tax that more than offests the rise in property taxes (hard though under 2-1/2), the taxpayers actually make out.

Next election, how about a binding ballot question that eliminates most of the functions now performed by the state and passes the services and the money to fund them to the of the cities and towns. coupled with a reduction initially of the income tax to a straight 5%.

Julia, I really don't get your attitude. What kind of a person begrudges a hard-working teacher a decent salary? These are the people that are taking care of and teaching our children (and yes, good pre-school teachers are REAL teachers). They do the most important job on earth and they absolutely deserve a living wage (and by the way, $58,000 isn't exactly that high a salary). Why is it okay for the government to hand over $700 billion to Wall Street CEOs who have run their companies into the ground, but it's "outrageous" to pay a teacher an amount that is really only a fraction of what they deserve? I'm glad that Massachusetts voters have seen past the short-sightedness of Prop 1 proponents. This is why I love this state!

Um @ David it's true that toll collectors are overpaid for what they do, however they're paid by the gouged toll payers and not the taxpayers.

Um @ David it's true that toll collectors are overpaid for what they do, however they're paid by the gouged toll payers and not the taxpayers.

Typical brainwashed mass morons.

How about raising the price of a lottery ticket to 2$?

How about raising the sales tax to 6.5% so idiots who waste their money can get taxed and those of us who save it don't.

Ma schools and roads are disgrace already, much like the voters.

I am so thankful that question 1 didn't pass. There are so many reasons why we need income tax, more than just rights rhetoric. For all you people that believe that it's all about corruption and greed in the state of Massachusetts remember this: I, as a member of this state need state funding in order to remain at the University of Massachusetts. It's the only opportunity I have at higher education, but if you care so much more about keeping that extra money i will repeat what the others have said and leave, because i certainly wouldn't want to be in this if i were you and I was running for state senate.

I wonder how many of you left-wing extremistists paid in the voluntary 5.85% as oppose to the 5.3 mandatory. My bet is zero of you. Cheer gleefully as my familly has to continue to struggle to meet your tax and spend ways. Be careful what you wish for, they will come for you next.

The state income tax by itself isn't that bad. It's the sales tax, property taxes, tolls, and other levies that add up to the citizens of Massachusetts paying exorbitantly for very little in return. Unless you count the Big Dig, the Turnpike Authority, and Billy Bulger good value. We just kicked out a bunch of crooks in Washington. Time to start looking closer to home.

Sheep rule!
Mass residents have to be taxed. There is no life without taxation in Mass. Our government knows the best - they are the smarterest. 5.3% is great, 6% is better,12% is even better, 25% is the best. The more taxes we pay the better life in Mass will be. Every pothole on the road needs a policeman, all day and night - it makes us sleep safe. MCAS testing makes our children smaht. We should make something like this for adults too. And MCAS should be doubled in frequency - one in the Fall , another in the Spring.
Television is the best invention humans could come with.

If you No's stopped for a moment to rub two brains cells together you'd compare just how much productivity and effect was wrung out of Coalition for Our Communities.

And you'd frown and grimace, with a little drool from the corner of your mouths, while attempting to mathematically equate it with the results you otherwise get from that $12 billion you hand out like steroidal welfare checks to these overpaid chuckleheads and layabouts who laugh at you all the way to the bank every Friday.

So you've succeeded in creating, and firmly underwriting (with a Nov. 4 exclamation point), the world's largest government jobs program--but moreover one that pays its recipients absurd amounts of cash.

You must be happy you can afford it.

Completely thrilled. I am happy beyond belief that this did not succeed. It would have been devasting at this point with the economy being what it is. As an educator and a mother, I was extremely concerned about our schools etc. If this passed, I was thinking of moving out of MA. One less thing to worry about for now!! Kudos for all of the ads and publicity to stop this proposed nightmare.

To the 'Fors' and 'Againsts' - Do not go back to sleep now!
The corruption is still there!
Removing money is only one avenue to fixing the problem since it is one of many variables!
This bill did not guarantee that any corruption issues would be fixed.
Now be sensible.
Stop fighting each other and start fighting the mutual enemy.
If you are lucky enough to have time in your life, then get involved and craft a piece of legislation that is specific enough that we can overwhelimingly support it.

Part of me wanted to vote Yes on question 1, just to prod the State to make meaningful change. Unfortunately, without a coordinated federal trend to loosen the grip of public unions, I fear the result would instead be a deep deficit and crippling cuts to my town's school system and public services.

I think a large reason why state and local budgets are so strapped is because they're in the grip of public unions. Most of the private sector gave up on pensions years ago and has had to pass on some of the health insurance cost increases to employees, because without these measures companies would go out of business.

The public sector can't (or hasn't organized the will to) do this: unions would rather lay off workers than budge on their precious benefits and the government can't summon the courage to make a stand.

I don't have a pension and I'm paying higher health insurance premiums. Why are my tax dollars funding pensions and luxury benefits for public employees in my town and state?

Take teachers, for example. The argument goes that they are so underpaid, better benefits make up the difference. I agree that our teachers are underpaid. So pay them more, make their salaries performance-based rather than dependent on seniority status, and align the benefits with what's offered in the private sector.

Government won't stand up to the unions because they want their vote. So the unions operate in a monopoly, and make demands unchecked by any competition or fear of free market forces... unlike in the private sector, the government won't go out of business.

The loss of income tax revenue might push the state to bargain harder with unions, but I'm not confident they'll push hard enough to make up the difference. I have two kids in a school system already pushed to the brink. So I voted no.

I never saw a single advertisement for or against and I still voted no on this. If public services are bad, we need to fix that, but taking money away sure as hell isn't going to fix them.

The purpose of the Income Tax isn't to collect revenue; the purpose of the Income Tax is to collect information. ~Alan Dershowitz
Schools are supposed to be community controlled that's why they are funded by your locally controlled property tax.
Roads are (much) more than funded by the gasoline (and other fuels) tax.
Massachusetts doesn't even publish the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report (as required by federal law) anymore so we have no real idea how much comes in and goes out.. This isn't the same as a budget.

Every time you SUBMIT an Income Tax return your shred the 5th Amendment of the Constitution for the United States to not testify against yourself and you trash the 4th Amendment to be secure in your papers.

Maybe you'll understand more clearly the implications of the Income Tax when it's your turn to stand up for your right to live in a Republic and get the boot of the Democracy (mob rule). Then again, what public school graduate can explain the difference between a democracy and a republic anyway?

(Lynch) "Mob Rule" wins again.

A Taxachusetts resident all my fifty plus years and it never seems to amaze me how unsophisticated my fellow citizens are when it comes to paying taxes. They are taxed so much; they can even differentiate one tax from another. They don't even know where their tax dollars are going and who spends which tax for what. They don't know a state tax from a local tax. I don't even think they know the difference between local government and the state government. The politicians have won again, and we help them do it. Their all laughing at us this morning as they plot to deal and steal, at Massachusetts’ Tax Payers’ expense.

Just remember, it's your privilege to pay the state income tax.

You CAN leave. Personally, I left a place with higher taxes to come to one with such a low personal income tax.

Sure, I can go to NH, but why? The 5% here is such a minimal sum, the only time I need NH for is buying big ticket items and liquor. You people here are so bloody silly.

to all those who want to know about corruption and money not well spent i give you MBTA, MASS TURNPIKE AUTHORITY, BIG DIG has that for start and we do hear about but most politicians and the peoplewho support them do not step up and do something about because they are afraid of the unions

Hilarious... I live in AZ so I really don't care other than this might have started a trend toward people waking up and thinking "gee, maybe I'm not such a stupid piece of garbage that I need someone else to decide how to spend my paycheck after all".... but oh well, idiocy rules again. All I hear from the "againsts" are bullet-point, fear-based, and most imporatantly, INACCURATE responses read off of a one page handout distributed courtesy of the Mass unions who benefit from everyone else's incomes being redistributed to them.

In a sane state, people would quickly figure out that their government squanders more money than the total revenue from an income tax. It's amazing that rather than demand some degree of value for your money, you sheep would rather just keep paying for the cr** you get to eat. Utterly amazing.

You gotta love the people of Taxachusetts. They just love paying taxes. Why not donate your entire paycheck to the government? Anyone who approves of government stealing your money is an idiot.

Only a temporary setback. Eventually those pulling the wagon will stop and tell all those riding on the wagon to get off. Then all those riding the wagon will riot because they believe they are ENTITLED to the income of those pulling the wagon.

Unbelievable that people would actually vote FOR taxes. Let me ask anyone who voted for this measure, who are concerned about budget deficits... What would you do with an extra 5.3% in your pockets? Either spend it, or save it... If you spend it, it is taxed. if you save it, you are taxed on the gains. Either way, the state is going to get the money.
The reason this was defeated by a wide margin is that you have been dumbed down to "not miss it" when it is taken from you before you get your check. That is a shame.

I can't believe you people believe the stuff you see on TV. There's a reason that around 50,000 people migrate OUT of MA every year. This place is a joke.

People in MA have to be the biggest idiots on the planet. Vote for John Kerry, vote for Ted Kennedy, vote for Barney Frank, vote to keep state income tax...What next? There must be something in the water here in New England, people love their Democrats and high taxes, but never benefit from either!

What were the results? How many "yes" votes, how many "no" votes?

MBTA debt = $8 Billion, Mass Health Debt = $2 Billion, Highyway Dept Debt = $3 Billion, State Police make over 120k a year with overtime, Firefighters get multi-million dollar buildings in areas they don't need AKA Westport Fire.........

If people think income tax is going to make everything better

People forgot about Prop 2 1/2 Property taxes would not have been raised in fact with housing property dropping in value taxes may have gone down because of Prop 2 1/2. Hope people like paying taxes because your going to get at least 4 years of more taxes, but don't worry those illegals and welfare bums will get all the perks of your hard earned tax dollars, while you chumps who voted to keep the state income tax will pay for it all. You want to give the state your money? Remember when Dukakis was governor and he paid a family friend six figures to put plants at toll booths on the mass turnpike. That's what you get for your tax dollars!