Brake problems surface on another fire truck

Yikes

I thought the fire department had their own mechanics? Don't they conduct periodic inspectiions?

Can we please stop calling it a routine call? There is never anything routine about responding to emergencies. That goes for police, EMS, firefighters, doctors, nurses, tow truck drivers, utility workers, you name it. You never know what you will find when you arrive or what can happen. Lt Kelly's death is case and point.

You can say it is part of their regular duties and responsibilities, you can say it was a regular occurence, you can say they respond to numerous similar types of calls daily, you can say it was just part of their job, but there are no such thing as routine emergency calls. Everytime you go out the door you put yourself at risk and you might not come back. Yes everyone puts themself at risk every day just by leaving the house, but all these jobs have a higher expectation of danger and reponsibility to serve others. There are random accidents and then there is willingly putting yourself out there despite knowing the risks.

Just ask the person who dialed 911 how routine it was for them.

today its the firetrucks. who's to say tomorrow its not an ambulance or even a police car?

Anybody find it surprising that suddenly in the last week or so that there have been several fire truck accidents and the firefighters union wants to blame the state? Besides this, it is a fact that any vehicle that requires a CDL to operate, requires the operator to perform a pre-inspection before they use it. A brake test is part of this procedure. If they are not performing these tests, then they are risking their own lives and those of their co-workers, in addition to the general population in which they operate. Like I said though, does it seem surprising that in 1 week or so we have suddenly had a rash of firetruck accidents? These contract negotiations have taken a turn for the worse and these firefighters should all get fired. and the union disbanded.

I'm trying to understand why a ladder truck was on a routine medical call. Those trucks aren't made for these short back and forth trips and this is one of the reasons that a lot of cities and towns have maintenance issues on their vehicles.

my father was an auto mechanic and he had a good rule of thumb he always said to me do your oil change every 3,000 miles check your brakes at that time brake fluid and tire pressure why can't they do the same for emergency vehicles these are precious lives out there

Nice editing, repeats the same paragraph twice

This is a HUGE problem within our cities & towns! When you keep cutting funding for the towns & cities what do you think happens???? Typically a town's yearly budget is 85% for schools. The rest gets spread around EVERYTHING else! There is nothing wrong with spending money on education. But, please remember our Fire, Police, & Public Works Departments are there for us 24 hours a day EVERYDAY! It is time we are there for them!!!

Brake issues? Do you mean brake problems?

The last B-52 rolled off the line in 1962. Some pilots today are the grandchildren of people who flew them back then. Through proper maintenance and upkeep, this plane has been in service for six decades.

Why in the world is there no similar inspection and maintenance program for emergency vehicles? I'd have to imagine that performing routine maintenance on something as expensive as a fire truck would be much cheaper than repair -- or in this case, death.

I am glad they found the problem so fast..Vehicles like these definitely should be checked more often than none.This was a needless accident and I feel for the familys so much..Losing a loved one over something that could have been caught is unjustifiable and to think they were being serviced over another companys failure to catch this problem is so overwhelming is awful...Arcand brake is a very reputable company and hopefully they will be able to check other trucks to keep this from happening again..My brother inlaw owns that company and if anyone can catch others mistakes when it comes to safety its Arcand Brakes.Arcand Brakes vehicles it it Arcand Brakes

ladder trucks go on "routine" medical calls (not that there is such a thing) because if there is a 911 call, and it's not clear what the issue is, if the caller isn't coherent, or they aren't sure what the problem is, they send a fire truck, an ambulance, and a police car, as a matter of routine. Which is wonderful, because if the caller can't articulate the problem, it's important to have every necessary piece of apparatus there, and every type of first responder.

So, Pioneer Girl, this is why a fire truck may have responded to some sort of emergency that wasn't an actual fire. They are primed to head out at the first sign of trouble, no matter what it may be.

God bless them, and God rest this poor departed fire fighter.

Hoppy, are you saying that the union intentionally allowed a firefighter out on a bad fire truck, and allowed him to die, so as to strenghten their bargaining position?

huh?

In response to hoppy, you do not need a CDL to drive a fire truck(engine or ladder) just a valid Massachusetts drivers license! To Pioneer girl, when you call 911, the fire department is among the first responders, many times beating the ambulance to the call. Sure hope you never have to call them!!!

If you check any major airfield, civilian or military, you will find many fire trucks that are vintage 1970 or earlier. They are inspected and undergo periodic maintenance to keep them in top shape. They also do not get deployed to impress the local neighborhood of the services available to them. Running a 100 foot ladder truck to a medical emergency is a joke. I have been told by a city employee that sending a fire engine along with an ambulance to a medical emergency is done only to give the firefighters additional pay as EMTs.

Our police and firefighters die for us but make the least amount of money. WHY???

HEY HOPPY( AKA )MORON WHERE DID YOU GET YOUR INORMATION?
YOU DO NOT NEED A CDL LICENSE TO OPERATE A FIRE TRUCK.
SHAME ON YOU FOR TRYING TO SUGGEST THIS TRAGEDY IS THE
FAULT OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT!

Pioneer Girl, it is policy in most places in this country to send the nearest first aid responders on medical calls along with EMTs or Paramedics. In most cases that is the fire dept. The ladder happened to be the nearest vehicle at the time. Another time it might be an engine. Yes, it is hard on the vehicles. That's why they don't last 30+ years anymore, besides doing many more runs each year.

T o Hoppy.

Who said the union is blaming the state?? They are asking the state to do the inspections. Second, accidents have been happening for a long time. It is now in the media because there has been a death involved, Third I hope the union is around much longer then you

DEAR PIONEER GIRL

YOU NEED TO DO YOUR HOME WORK BEFORE MAKING STUPID
STATEMENTS! THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS THE FIRST RESPONSE FOR ALL 911 CALLS! AND THEY ARE ALWAYS THE FIRST ONES TO ARRIVE. I HAVE TOLD MY CHILDREN IF EVER THEY HAD AN EMERGENCY BE SURE TO DIAL 911 BECAUSE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT WILL ALWAYS GET THERE
THE FASTEST!!!

Why in the world are the emergencey brakes not adequate to stop, or at least slow down the truck when needed? I would look to the manufacturer of the vehicle to its expected level of performance and required maintenance schedules.
Additionally, the BFD has a lot to answer for themselves.

HOPPY WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
YOU DO NOT NEED A CDL LICENSE TO OPERATE A FIRE TRUCK.
YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR STUPID MOUTH SHUT! WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING? BESIDES MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF.
PRAY TO GOD YOU NEVER NEED THEIR HELP AFTER THE TERRIBLE
COMMENTS YOU HAD TO SAY ABOUT FIREING FIRE FIGHTERS.

They are firemen darnit, give them everything they need, including top-notch, top-performing equipemnt, and the weekly salary so that they can live a decent life and then some. They risk their lives every day for who,... YOU ! Treat them with every respect and then some.

Hobo42-

Boston is one of the few cities in the country that doesn't pay more for being an EMT-B. We get paid overtime for the re-certification class that we have to take every 2 years, that's it.

Also "airfields" may be able to get away with older apparatus because they get far fewer runs. We do not "deploy (trucks) to impress the local neighborhood of the services available to them" or "up our running numbers". We do it to save lives. In my district there are 5 pieces of fire apparatus and 1 ambulance. If that ambulance is on another call, should we just make the second caller wait for an ambulance from another part of the city? Or send the fire truck that right down the street? Wouldn't you want help in a timely manner?

Brain death begins four to six minutes following cardiac arrest (or for some people it began years ago). That doesn't leave a large window of opportunity to save someone's life. Survivability depends on early access to EMS, early CPR, early defibrillation and early ALS.

Hoppy,YES.Ellen..........THE THING IS ..........YOU SHOULD HAVE A CDL LISCENCE . YOU IDIOTS !! ALSO, TO USE A DEFIBRILLATOR,THEY WANT MORE MONEY!! BFD ; YOU SUCK TAKE YOUR PISS TESTS AND SHUT UP

Shouldn't the headline on the main page use "2nd" not "2d"???

The caps lock button is over on the far right hand side of the keyboard, 3rd key up from the bottom. If the light is on, press it once to toggle it off.

To NYviaMAss-

Fire trucks don't have emergency brakes. They have air service brakes and an air operated parking brake. The parking brake fails shut but is only on the rear wheels and is designed to keep an already stationary truck from moving. It is not designed to stop a truck going down a very steep at a high rate of speed.

The service brakes, brake both sets of wheels but fail open. If there is a catastrophic loss of air or even a slow leak, the air pressure will not be sufficient to hold the shoes off the rear drums, however depending on the springs and how old they and how they are adjusted, maintained etc, this may not be enough to stop, or even slow down a truck. The problem was exacerbated by the fact that the truck was going down a steep hill in several ways; One being the the acceleration due to gravity and another being the additional load on the front wheels and the lessened load on the rear wheels.

Now we all know that even on a level surface your front brakes have a vast majority of the stopping power. This effect is compounded on a downhill, now if you take away the front braking totally, the rear wheels have a tiny fraction of the braking power and the stopping distance is increased exponentially. Even if the brakes are in perfect working order.

Why did a ladder truck respond to a medical call? Was the casualty stuck in a tree, on a phone pole? The expense and risk of using a very specialized and heavy piece of equipment unnecessarily is expensive, stupid and, in this case, proved tragic. Surely an SUV would have been sufficient, if a response from any vehicle other than an ambulance was necessary.

Sounds like Hoppy is one of Mayor Mumbles' minions.

FYI Hoppy, the trucks are checked every day by the operators but even with daily operator checks you will not avoid a catastrophic failure it just lessens the chance of it happening.

My husband is a Boston firefighter, he has taken and passed his EMS class. He doesn't get any pay increase for this. (other towns do, not Boston) He did it on his own time because he wanted to be better prepared. As far the fire equipment, (i believe) the fire dept has been told by the city that there isn't any money for better up keep. these problems have been going on for years. It's horrible that it takes a death of a husband / father/ brother / friend to get this problem noticed... Please tell me, how does one check the breaks on a vehicle that big in a firehouse without the proper tools? Who will teach them ( f/f's ) how to maintain the equipment? Should there be a trained / licensed mechanic in every fire house? Just the other day something happened to my husband while he was driving a piece of apparatus. This was just another incident I can remember over the last 10 years. There have been break problems, either freezing or none, engine starting on its own, engine racing while without touching the gas. I have also been on the 911 end and I am very glad BFD is only 3 minutes away, they saved my child's life and this company didn't know it was a members child. They just did there job, they always do...

I don't care if you're fire fighter or drunken fat out for self interest according DOT standard vehicle weighting over 26001 pounds require a CDL . Hoppy was on the right course only if BFD had check with DOT and made sure all there workers had the proper permit maybe this would have never happen. ..calling 911 in boston?? who are we bsing There more damages resulting from BDF vehicle enrout to "emergency"

In the comments section on any article related to the incident the other day, 15 idiots ask the same question, "Why did a ladder truck respond to a medical call?". Every time some one answers it logically. But here it goes again:

There are far more fire apparatus in the city than ambulances because it's it much more labor and equipment intensive to fight a fire than it is to take care of a single patient regardless of their problem. Logical right? With me so far? Therefore at any given incident there is a high probability that a piece of fire apparatus is closer to the call and therefore can get there faster than an ambulance. Also logical, right? In an emergency time is of the essence. Would anyone disagree with that? Therefore it is logical to send the closest piece of apparatus with the people onboard with the knowhow and tools to mitigate whatever the emergency is, regardless of what this piece of apparatus weighs. What is more important? Wear and tear on a vehicle and roads or the survival of your loved ones?

Some of you have suggested, not sending fire apparatus but putting an ambulance in every firehouse or the fire department absorbing EMS. The former idea would result in doubling the amount of ambulances in the city and substantially INCREASING costs. The later is an idea that warrants looking into as I think it would benefit the City of Boston by reducing costs and beauracracy and would be great for the fire department and the current members of EMS. However it will never happen while Menino is in office because the head of EMS is a good friend of his. Absorbing EMS would benefit us (the fire department) in several ways. First we'd get some of that choice funding they get (I don't think there's an ambulance older than 5 years in Boston), and second it would make our union larger and more powerful (mwuaahahahaha). j/k

It gets really annoying when fifty people who obviously know nothing about what you do, try to tell you how you can better do your job. The Boston Fire department has been around for 331 years. We know what we are doing. I've been doing this for 10 years, I study and train constantly. I keep current on new technologies and techniques, I buy my own equipment. I know what I'm doing, and so do the rest of my colleagues.

For what its worth an accident is an accident some of them are preventable some are not wether this was preventable or not its not the point the point is that a life was lost and with all respect the driver of this fire truck should be commendable for the way that he drove , when you're in a situation like they were you basicly do what he did you have no brakes so you drive into something avoid hit people or parked cars because you're not sure if there are people in them and my sympathies are with the loved ones for Mr. Kelley God Bless his loved ones

....that's a minus sign on my machine (and most other desktop keyboards), plus, as a wireless, it doesn't have a light. Besides subtlety is almost always lost on those it's aimed at.

Unless the emergency involves rescuing workers off a broken scaffold, there is NO reason why a 100ft ladder truck manned with 4 firefighters should be responding to a medical emergency call. None.

If the FD does infact arrive first, or if the ambulance is on another call, then give these firefighters something much more efficient to buy AND drive like an SUV (a la DJR's idea) and keep that ladder truck at the station where it's needed most.

Fire equipment like engines and ladder trucks are insanely expensive to buy, to operate and to maintain. They're wearing out much too soon. The airport equipment example shows that's the case. GM, Ford & Chrysler are swamped with light trucks they can't give away today.

If I was hanging out a window on my 4th floor apartment that's on fire, I'd like to be reassured in my mind that the truck that could save my life is standing by in my local fire station and not having to come from across the city because my local truck is off on a call to help Mrs. Smith and her broken hip.

you shood have a cdl to orperate seach a large heavy vehicle this is wrong that these unions have such power . dpw drivers alll have cdl in my town to have jobe we have to take alkhal drug test fire dept dont thats wy they dont have cdl

Sounds like part of the issue is ladder trucks being overused improperly, thereby causing wasteful wear and tear on a specialized piece of equipment when a using simpler "emergency response vehicle" would be more appropriate.

A ladder truck costs something like $700,000+, it should never be used when a fully equipped $70,000 "emergency response vehicle" can do the job more safely and much more efficiently, allowing firefighters to get to the scene and respond faster to a non-fire emergency.

Anyone who says they should send a ladder truck out instead of an "emergency response vehicle" is just wasting tax payer money.

Sounds like Mumbles definitely has his minions monitoring the blog sites to get everybody stirred up. State of the City mumbling should be interesting Tuesday night. I'll try to watch, but may need an interpreter!!! Does anyone speak Mumblese? Maybe Hoppy. Maybe he or she is trying out for American Idol!

its a shame that so many people think they know what they are talking about. and even if they do know what they are talking about they are basically sitting here saying that the bfd asked for this to happen. the bfd is one of the closest unions in the state. we look out for each other every day. i wish that some people could experience what we do every day that we walk in those garage doors. the family of LT. Kelley should be proud of his dedication to the city of boston and my condolences go out to them. i wish that everyone would stop pointing the finger at someone else and just do their part at making the operations of the boston fire department run a little more smooth. and as far as the drug testing and the cdl licenses and the emt pay...please just realize that there are 3 kids and a wife that just lost the most important man in their lives

why is is that emergency personel do not need a CDL , I've had one for years driving large trucks , for a fact any truck exp. f350 with trailer of 10,000 lbs needs a CDL , you could say that is your local landscaper .
So tell me why a truck that weighs 25,000 lbs. and has air brakes does not need a driver that has passed a CDL test. do you think if the driver was qualified he could of slowed the truck down enough with downshifting the automatic and activating the emergency brakes??? and saved a life!!!

Todd you ignorant piece of garbage! How DARE you talk about the BFD at a time like this? I hope to God you or your family need them one day and they are busy taking their piss tests and can't help your sorry a$$!
What's the matter you couldn't pass the BFD test so now you're a hater?
Go away, far away and NEVER come back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

to todd sweezey. im a first responder and paid by the city, so no , i dont get more money for using the defibrillator u idiot. if you knew anything, people at mcdonalds use those now as part of their employment. what you are talking about are volunteer fire fighters. they get money for being an emt and going on calls. IAFF members do it because thats our job!!!!! why dont you try it you idiot. now djr, if you get paid by the city to be a first responder, and thats the only piece of apparatus there, that goes on the call. pray you dont need them. also, before you go posting, check where you live and see if there an SUV available at a fire dept if you need to see if thats what is better. you will find out that there is a suv for the commander, thats it. boston fire dept is a big dept and are pretty much all paid members. they know what to do in an emergency.

It amazes me how many people pretend to know what the f they are talking about. I’m not a plumber so I would never presume to know about plumbing but you guys must be firefighters because you know all about this stuff. Fire trucks go out on medical calls 24\7 and it’s not for more money or any of the other moronic ideas you people have imagined. They are sent out because more often than not they arrive on scene before the ambulance and police. This is important because when you or a loved one are having a heart attack or stroke or something just as serious they can intervene with critical care. This parts for you DJR. How many vehicles do you think fire departments have? Are you going to buy an SUV for every firehouse so they can respond in that? I couldn’t agree with you more about not using a fire truck for non fire emergencies but they don’t have that luxury

Since firefighters have considerable idle time, can't they be taught to maintain their own equipment? Wouldn't that save money and reduce uncertainty about equipment readiness. You're bound to maintain equipment well if your life depends on it.

So the FD should buy An SUV for all the stations maybe more than one so if more than one medical calls comes in which i doubt ever happens in boston that they have a smaller piece to sound out to that call. Sounds very cost effective. Air brakes has a filter that filthers water out of the air if that is not working correctly and the breaks keep their air pressure but the valves are frozen on a cold day you don't stop so they work in the warm station when you check the truck. Also if you are in need of 911 help i don't think you care what shows up just as long as someone is helping you.

Why do they send ladder trucks to routine medical emergencies? Can't they send smaller vehicles?

Cant add more equipment to a maintenance department that can't handle the work they have, just have more accidents and higher dept workmans comp claims. Need to retrain or replace the people that can't recognize the seriousness of the problems in the maintenance dept.

My hunch is that a couple of Operations geeks and some equipment positioning software from say Southwest Airlines could figure out a vastly more efficient, economical and safer system for deploying assets than the overpaid unionized employees or underpowered management of a 331 year old bureaucracy. Changing a broken system and making it safer and more effective for everyone would be the greatest tribute we could make to Lt Kelley. But, like a sensible agreement to drug testing and CDL licensing, I doubt it will happen without storms of whining. But it will happen.

Fire trucks respond to EMS calls purely to justify their existence. It's really that simple. There are far fewer fires that in years past, manpower does not decrease, and budgets increase. You need to show run volume at budget time and EMS does that. Along with generating revenue that FDs typically want to get their hands on.

Absorbing EMS into the FD would be the best way I can think of to destroy a nationally-considered EMS system. Mergers like that always benefit the FD and typically destroy EMS. Look at Washington DC, NYC, and San Francisco for prime examples.

FDs should think of other ways of justifying their bloated existence that mucking with the ill and injured. Plow roads in the winter if you need something to do with your vast downtime.

Its Time for all the MUMBLES Kissasses to find something better to do with their time. Let the 55 Truck team come in and inspect all the fire trucks in the state of massachusetts. Then we would only have 10% of the Fleet in service in the whole Commonwealth.

OH I KNOW WHERE THE CAP BUTTON IS! BUT I'M YELLING AT YOU MORON.
AND SHAME ON ALL OF YOU WHO ARE FINDING THE TIME TO PUT DOWN
FIREFIGHTERS! THREE DAYS AFTER ONE IS KILLED IN THE LINE OF DUTY
AND LEAVES BEHIND A WIFE,CHILDREN,AND MANY MANY FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS.
YOU KNOW I BELIEVE WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND!
HOW WOULD YOU LIKE THIS BEING SAID AFTER ONE OF YOUE LOVED ONES WERE KILLED TRAGICALLY!

BUNCH OF LOOSERS.

To those of you that are so amazed by what you describe as "so many" people that pretend to know what they're talking about--um, a dozen or so people speak up on the comments section of an article doesn't really constitute "so man." Boston proper has over half a million people. Relax a little.

And Ellen...you tell those "loosers" off so nicely...only I'm not sure in what sense they come across as loose to you.

Kudos to all those that support the firemen. I don't think anyone would dispute that we all need and value their role in our society. But isn't the BFD, or more so the firefighters' union, in large part responsible for being perceived so negatively by many of us readers? Public servants are great, but don't merit a special protection from criticisms. We all bash the drug makers for their high prices until we're depending on their drugs for our longevity. Same thing here.

So many comments so many solutions---what does it prove?---- ANSWER NOTHING.Let the BFD do what they need to do to protect all these "so called" experts.If you can do better, than get a job with the BFD. I am sure they would love to have you in their ranks.

First, God Bless LT Kelley and his family. It is always a sad day when someone dies in the line of duty, whether that person is a policeman, fire fighter or a soldier. I had a couple of questions when I first heard this story. The first was whether ladder trucks have emergency brakes and the second was why the driver did not either apply the emergency brakes (which I would think that they would have mechanical brakes as a back up) or at the very least put the truck in a lower gear (or in worse case) or in Reverse or Park. To the drivers out there, would that have been possible??

To: Ellen, Mike, MJMouse, Rockwirth, Smittybelle, Barbara, Arpeggator,Jeff, BFDWife, and others:
Guys-- take it easy. Now is not the time to have a shouting contest in the media. The good union president has asked EVERYBODY to pray to God for LT Kel'y 's soul AND for his family !! Of course, people will jump to conclusions, run with their gut, spout out something they " heard " or that they "think they know " . You guys, however, know that most members of the public NEVER get the true story on ANYTHING-- for many reasons-- so how can you expect them to form proper opinions ?

Let the investigators do their work-- help the family and the soul of the lost fireman, and the injured people. Lets save the recriminations and blaming --there's plenty of evil for the day withouy bringing up more. Let's get the department , the firefighters, and the vehicles and the public safe. If we need to correct public opinion ( like whether CDL's are required for apparatus drivers ) ,we should be able to explain it calmly, with a Christian demeanor-- then the message will be heard, and healing can begin.

after reading through the first 40 or so comments....and reading about the "why would you send a ladder truck" question..i think the original poster was focusing more on the word LADDER than FIRE. everyone knows fire comes with any dispatch....but the question that i have at least, was why was it a ladder and not a fire rescue? not that's really super relevant at this point....