Quincy mother accused of killing unborn child and daughter, 9

does the color of the house realllyyyy matter? if it was white would this not have happend?

this tragedy could have been avoided...if u know anyone who doesn't seem their normal self and has young defenseless children, i beg of you to interfere and let people know there is help everywhere;
dr.'s volunteer, support groups, medicinal alternatives...
even if you don't feel comfortable doing it, please ask anyone if they need help..sometimes the littlest gesture could make a world of a difference to a person suffering.

Without setting off a debate on abortion, can anyone explain to me the murder charge against a 7-month-old fetus under the current laws? I thought Roe v Wade established the mother's right to chose whether a fetus lives or not. Is this a matter of the fetus being in the 3rd trimester and "being able to survive outside the womb?" That distinction seems a very slippery slope given the advanced state of NICUs...
Thanks.

Why are so many families - having this kind of murder? What kind of epidemic is this? People, get help if you are feeling stressed. Help each other out more... baby sit... intervene... call DSS. This is so heartbreaking. I'm tired of reading the newspaper every week and seeing these "uncommon" murders becoming all too common. Stop it!

Renee, I agree. Is the color relevant? Also, the police won't releease the names of the victims, rightfully so. Yet, they announce the address of where they live?? I don't understand the way things work around here... I try to avoid reading these stories.

My heart goes out to the father and surviving daughter.

Similar cases are happening across the crounty. Melba Taylor stabbed her daughter and son a few years ago, and actually swallowed the daughters eye. She was on medication. I'd be curious to know if this woman was on medication, and if so, which one. As to the color of the house, I'm in complete agreement. That was really a stupid thing to add in the article. What was the point?

To "Wondering". I think the law states it's illegal to terminate a pregnancy AFTER the first trimester unless the mother's in danger of losing her life. A fetus has a possible chance of survival after 6mos I believe. I have a neice who was premature and delievered right before the 7th month and she's healthy, fine and sometimes too smart LOL.

Jen,
the police did not release the address of the incident. the media responded to the house while police were actively investigating after hearing scanner traffic.

You all seem very hung up on the color of the house. Writers add detail like that so you can picture the setting.

Scott Peterson was charged with murdering his wife and his unborn baby.

"Women's healthcare" in this country is a joke. Money is spent on viagra and creating new ways for men to have erections and more sex and no research and money is spent on post partum depression or even (now) pregnant women's mental conditions. it's real people! a woman's body goes through changes when pregnant, and it affects her emotions and mind. We need to get women thorough care if they are experiencing problems! This story is tragic. It is one of many tragic stories. When can we stop being surprised by this and start doing somethig worthwhile to help?

Hey "Wondering" -- Why do you not refer to this unborn child as an unborn child? I hate the term fetus at the 7-month stage. Refer to the unborn child as the unborn child. I'm sick and tired of politcal correctness and not calling things what they actually are. Bring humanity back for crying out loud. The aetheists and liberals of this country have taken the soul and spirit out of society. You're making it so that we all walk around like blank-faced unfeeling, unthinking "things." -- Not even human anymore -- It's disgusting. Roe v. Wade exists, yes; but let's not lose the sight of what nature intended us to be -- loving, caring, thoughtful human beings. No loving caring human being stabs herself in the stomach thinking she isn't intending to murder what is inside of her.

Yup, this is most certainly a double murder. You cannot kill a fetus or any other human being. It's irrefutable (sorry for the news pro-choicers) that abortion is murder.

The silver lining in this horrbile tragedy is that it may help bring the issue into light. Overturn Roe V. Wade.

To D and Wondering. Termination of pregnancy is optional until the very end and there are those who are wanting to even make it a choice after birth. I agree with Wondering, how can anyone be charged with the death of an unborn child today. I will make it clear that I am against abortion at any time unless the mother herself is in danger of dying. To charge one for murder and then turn around and allow the murder by another is just an indication of where this country is right now in my opinion.

My next book. SICK NATION.

How is it legal to have a clinic abort a 7 month old fetus but murder if the mother kills it herself with a knife? I'm not taking a stance on abortion here, just saying that the law is inconsistent. Either you have until the child is born to abort it (in which case this can't be murder) or there should be a limit to how late you can abort a fetus (in which case this could be murder). Which is it?

Wondering,
The Supreme Ct has since eroded many of the underpinnings of Roe v Wade, and your grasp of NICUs was not lost on them, either. The case was never about an absolute right to abortion. The rigid 'trimester' analysis originally in Roe v Wade is gone. Courts now uses a sliding scale that tips in favor of the mother during the beginnings of pregnancy, but shifts to the the fetus once it becomes viable. A 7-month fetus should be viable with modern NICU technology (the lungs are nearly fully developed), therefore the mother took a human life.

i think this story is absoulutely disturbing , i agree with you mary it seems as its been coming more common every day these murders that should be avoided !!!! how sad thats all i can say . my prayers go out to the family .

It's murder (whether or not it's murder to the abortion foes). She stabbed herself in the stomach intentionally knowing she had a baby inside. I hope this story doesn't die out before we get the whole story. Why would she do this?
As for the readers who were bothered by the mention of the color of the house where they resided - Oh brother. Do you look for things to get upset about?

lurchdung: Overturning Roe v. Wade will not end abortion. What this woman did was cruel, inhuman, and, yes, murder, because the child could have survived outside the womb. This is not about abortion rights, it's about a woman who did something unspeakable, killing 2 children.

As to abortion, what gives you the right to tell anyone else what they can do medically? (Stabbing yourself in the abdomen is not a medical treatment for anyone or anything)

THANK YOU Ann Smith! You nailed the crux of the issue here, and I couldn't agree with you more. Women are not breed animals, here for the whims of the viagra-pumped elders. As for KS, Lurchdung, etc.: of course, of freaking COURSE you turn this into an issue about abortion. But since you insist: "sorry for the news" but Roe v. Wade stands, and will continue to stand. Tough noogies.

Diane Schlosstein,
One of the biggest problem's in this world is over population. But hey, lets all just keep having babies. Religious people sound so stupid.

To "Wondering" there is a big difference between the medical procedure of abortion and the wanton violence described in this article. In my state, Wisconsin, individuals are prosecuted for intentionally attempting to unlawfully kill an unborn child. The end may be the same: the death of the unborn child; but there is a significant difference in the means and this is what makes abortion a humane practice. Furthermore, to "ks," I hope that you are also against the death penalty, which is another example of your last sentence. Additionally, by some of your reasoning, we should also make it illegal for women to drink or smoke during pregnancy.

My heartfelt sympathy goes out to this family. I walk past their home often and it's so close to where i live that i just feel sad and empty upon hearing this sad and horrible news.

A child is a child. A woman has the right to choose not to have umprotected intercourse. I do believe a mother could be in an emotional altered state. She still murdered the unborn child. Therefore She should have the right to receive mental treatment for the rest of her life in prison.

Actually, ks, in Massachusetts abortion is an option for all pregnant women until 24 weeks. After 24 weeks, it can only be done if the life of the mother is in danger.

In any case, this is just tragic and heartbreaking.

All of you freaking about "abortion versus murder" it says in the article that they are waiting to find out of the fetus was viable outside of the womb before they make a determination of murder or not. It's the same as when the pregnant woman was shot at the T station a couple of years ago -- she was nearly nine months along and the baby could have lived. Anyway, what's your point? She killed the baby -- do you want to get her off the hook because abortion is legal?

No mental condition, chemical unbalance or hormonal surge could make me kill my own child. A mother is put here to protet their young, not to kill them. This is sick! She needs to pay for this!

Too bad this "mother" is still around, now will be mooching off state funds. Best wishes to a hopeful father and surviving daughter. Sick woman.

Does anyone feel for this mother? Why did she feel the need to kill her children?

Coming from the point of view of an atheist AND a liberal (apparently I'm heartless and have no soul so please forgive me if I offend anyone here, cough,Diane Schlosstein) this woman killing her children has nothing to do with abortion rights in this country. She didn't opt for an abortion, she violently murdered her little girl and her unborn child. The baby would have very likely survived outside of the womb at 7 months. I think this has more to do with the mental health crisis that's sweeping our country than it has to do with the terms of Roe V Wade. I don't know this woman, and neither do any of you for that matter, but I will venture to say that she is very sick and should have been receiving treatment that could have prevented this from happening. I don't recall anything in the article that claimed she was pro-choice, and I highly doubt this was a political or anti-religious act so some people maybe need to stop defending things that weren't being attacked in the first place and making 'atheists and liberals' look like we were standing in this woman's living room egging her on. You can't possibly believe anyone would use this as a chance to champion abortion rights, that's disgusting and offensive and extremely disrespectful to that family. But I don't have a soul so I can't really be sure if I'm right.

Disgusted.
Then get down on your knees and thank whatever you pray to, that you are you and that woman is she, then add another prayer that you will never know what hell she lived in...and give yourself another clap on the back that you are you.

I completely agree Jennifer. Thanks for posting that!

I think people grousing about the reporters' mentioning the color of the house are objecting to its placement in the story, in a paragraph about the murders. If it had been placed a little farther down-- say in the paragraph that starts "Neighbors said the family moved into the [light blue] house ....." -- I doubt there would have been this outpouring of angst.

Disgusted:

What Rosie said.

This is a sick woman. Recently having kids, I couldn't imagine anyone ever being able to stab an unborn baby out of owns own womb - no matter what your "abortion" views are. I just hope and pray the 14 year old can get through this as best and possible and that the community can reach out to support her. She's the one true victim here. No child should ever have to see a scene like that...

Come on people... even if she wasn't pregnant who would stab themselves in the stomach??!! SOMEONE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS. This poor woman needed serious help and apparently no one noticed. We all need to start caring and thinking that it is our place to step in and offer assistance if someone looks/acts like they may be slipping over the edge. Get involved.

I think that a murder is a murder - the other daughter was killed as well.

Don't think that abortion enters into it at all - the mother was obviously distured and wasn't thinking well, if I stab my self/stomach I will kill the baby and perhaps myself and God only knows what she was thinking when she killed her other daughter and tried to strangle the 3rd.

I think too much stress in this article is put on Roe vs. Wade, doesn't enter into it, metnal illness does, unfortununately and perhaps the economic crisis - who knows, but let's pray for the survivors.

Disgusted: No mental condition, chemical unbalance or hormonal surge could make me kill my own child.

Well, Disgusted, you are lucky not to have suffered mental condition or chemical imbalance severe enough for one to go insane. But just because you are lucky, doesn't mean others are as well. Wasn't that awhile ago there was a woman with 5 young children and she drowned them in the bathtub? I think it was attributed to post partum depression -- just to illustrate that mental illness can be very terrifyingly powerful.

Miss Sassy Thang, you can't imagine it because it has nothing to do with abortion. It has to do with her being very very ill. She wasn't giving herself an abortion, she was killing all her children. That's why comparing this to abortion is a false premise.

I just hope if the mother survives, she gets treatment. There was clearly an underlying mental illness here. And as for murder of a fetus... it was a baby, not a fetus at 7months gestation. Based on my experience as a picu nurse, that baby would have almost definately survived.

"Irrefutable"? Are you a lawyer, a doctor and a judge?

I think an important point that cannot go overlooked is that this family is an immigrant family. The mother could have been having difficulty assimilating into American culture, coupled with the psychological difficulty of having marital problems. Certainly, there is no excuse for such behavior. However, being a nurse, I am well aware of how psychologically unstable some individuals can be, even to the point of performing such an heinous act that most of us cannot conceive of doing. Mental illness is indeed a "real" disease, it's not all in her head. It is not an excuse from a legal perspective (the instanity defense is not so simple to win with), but it is important for society to understand that mental illness is REAL and we must begin to eliminate the stigma surrounding it. Particularly in the Asian cultures, mental illness is completely unacceptable, and those with any hint of an issue are in no way able to seek help without dishonoring his/her family. She is indeed a sick woman, a tragic incident occurred, she will indeed be held accountable for her actions, but all of us need to be more compassionate to those who are truly suffering with mental illness.

Abortions are not legal in the third trimester. They can only be performed if the mother's life is in danger.

I find it shameful that people are using this tragedy to puch their own agenda.

I wonder if this woman was able to communicate her despair with anyone. Did she speak English? Of course, in Quincy (Wollaston and North Quincy in particular) there are many social service contacts available for asians. Did she have pre-natal care? Did anyone sense stress? Or did she fly off the handle out of the blue? She could have left the 9 year old with the 14 year old and gone for a long walk. We all have to handle stress and anger and to walk away from a situation on occassion. Was it nine years since her last pregnancy?

I go to her sister's school at Atlantic Middle school in quincy. She is an ell student and we had police perimetering the school. I cant realse there name though. PRIVATE

"It's irrefutable (sorry for the news pro-choicers) that abortion is murder."

Uh, no, sorry to you, but that is very much refutable. Murder is a legal term with a specific, defined meaning that does not include abortion. it is, therefore, by definition NOT murder. You may not like it, but abortion is legal, and its legality is supported by a strong majority in this country. Don't like it? Don't have one. But you don't have the right to force the rest of us to live by your views.

Wait till the father files for divorce. The courts will give custody of the 14yr. old to the mother. This on a GAL's recommendation of course.

It is unfortunate. Many of these domestic issues are occuring in many homes regarless of race, class and ethnic background. Individuals are under tremendous financial, and social stressors. Mental health, and resources are being cut. We need to be more observant of individuals behavior and not be so dismissive. People suffer from mis or undiagnosed mental illness that unfortunately can lead to this. If someone is behaving in a way that is concerning reach out or call your local hospital....reach out.

I can't say how sad this story is since we just had a child ourselves. Being asian and familiar with its cultural discriminations, I'm curious what the gender of all her children are...especially the unborn child's gender. Some Asian women have this unbelievable pressure to have a male child and if not the husband will do things to push her to the breaking point. I hope I'm wrong, but it is also a point that may be a piece of the puzzle.

Diane Schlosstein wrote:
"... The aetheists and liberals of this country have taken the soul and spirit out of society..."
Diane, what does your opinion have to do with this story? Do you know if that woman and/or her family held such views, and does that really matter in this case? You are trying to push a political and religious agenda when what's really happening is a tragic family and domestic issue, with potentially a mental health issue with the mother involved.
Please spare us your wingnut rantings!

i'm down with what jennifer said. this has nothing to do with roe vs wade. it's about mental illness. if you or your wife has never had any children then please sit down and pay attention. post partum depression is very real, especially if the woman has little to no help with the child/children. professionally speaking, it's pretty fair to say that most people would develop some type of a psychosis given long periods of sleep deprivation. never mind that she was asian, where mental illness is virtually ignored and stigmatized, unlike american culture where therapists and psychiatrists are well established. for all those so ready to fry her, why don't you walk a mile in her shoes before you flip the switch.

MOST people with mental illness do NOT do these things. It's BS to use mental illness as an excuse. I'm sure this woman has gone through a lot, but so have a LOT of other people. Many people have even gone through much worse than what this woman may have gone through, but you still don't see them killing their kids.

There's no excuse for what she did to her kids. Why should her kids have to suffer, just b/c the mom was going through stress?

Of course, she will cry and deny it. Nobody is that dumb to admit, "Yes, I'm an evil person that wanted to see my kids suffer." People like that always have an excuse to defend themselves. She needs to be locked up and was a danger to her family. Sorry.

Thousands of fetuses are dismembered by vacuum aspiration daily (ie, during abortion procedures), and Americans think it's "all perfectly legal".