Transcript of a chat with Globe reporter Michael Levenson on May 15, 2006 about population loss in Massachusetts

Michael Levenson (Moderator) 01:51PM	Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining me on this Boston.com chat. I'm excited to get things rolling, so please feel free to weigh in with your questions, comments and thoughts, and I'll do my best to respond.
Tennyson 01:52PM	Hi Michael - Was there a commonality between all the people you talked to, except for the fact that they've all left Mass.? Was there a common point of why they left and did not come back?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 01:54PM	Well, everyone had their own take on why they left, but a few issues kept coming up time and again. Housing was a giant factor -- so many people said they had found the housing here too expensive, and the homes in other states larger and more affordable. Weather, traffic, and rudeness in Massachusetts were other reasons that kept popping up in my interviews. More than a few people also mentioned their eagerness to live in a less liberal state.
broy 01:54PM	Mike, from what I've read, this whole Mass exodus is only for Greater Boston. Western Massachusetts has seen a growth in population. Do you think people are migrating east to west?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 01:56PM	I think that could be another factor, altough it's not one we looked at in this poll. Interestingly, Middlesex, Norfolk and Suffolk counties appeared to be losing the most people, according to our poll. But Western Massachusetts wasn't far behind. Central Mass. seemed to be losing the least, compared to the other regions of the state.
Tina 01:56PM	I would like to know if you were surprised by anything you learned or heard while working on this story.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 01:59PM	I was surprised by how many people shared the same experiences in Massachusetts - they loved the culture here, the beauty of the Cape's beaches, the mountains out West, but hated the traffic, the weather, and the cost. It reminded me of how much of a shared experience it is living here, although we're not always aware of that fact. I was also surprised by how many people were satisfied with life in their new state, and how few wanted to come back.
bornfree 01:59PM	hi michael thanks for chatting. i moved here from nyc, 10 yrs ago, fleeing high crime there at the time. considering moving from mass to midatlantic during the next couple of years due to onerous gov't laws and taxes, and the cold. one life to live, i say. why would i stay? wondering if you've heard any compelling reasons to STAY in boston/mass!
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:00PM	Hi Bornfree. Great question. Maybe I could toss this one out to the Boston.com millions for a response. Anybody have any compelling reasons why this reader should stay in Massachusetts?
kathyl 02:01PM	I moved to Cary, NC 10 months ago from Wellesley, MA. My husband and I found jobs very quickly. The sticking point was selling our home in Wellesley, which took almost 9 months. The economy is booming here and the weather is supurb. Today is 72 degreees with a slight breeze. The housing prices are terrific, also. You can get a lot more house for your money and the homes are mostly new. Our 4 kids have adjusted very quickly. We've met so many pople who have moved to this Triangle area from the North andNorheast. I encourage everyone to look serseriously at the great lifestyle in NC!
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:03PM	Hi Kathyl, Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I can say there are so many people who wrote to me say they, too, had found a bigger house in their new state, and NC was also one of the most popular destinations for people moving from Massachusetts. It's also interesting just how many people from the East are moving that way, that there seems to be a transplant comunity of its own growing in the Southeast. Obviously, the weather was a big factor - and you noted how it's 72 there today and we're flooding here in the Bay State.
nelson 02:04PM	Stay in Massachusetts to remain on the cutting edge of social reform!
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:04PM	There's one response, from Nelson. Thanks for your thoughts.
I'm_At_Work 02:05PM	While it's true that moving to another part of the country yields a less expensive cost of living, it also usually means lower wages. How did your research show people coped with earning less?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:08PM	Interesting question and we actually polled on this one. The results showed 41 percent of people said they were making more money in their new state, 23 percent about the same, and 28 percent said less money. One thing that points to how people are coping might be the question on quality of life, and our results showed most people saying their quality of life had gone up. These are complex issues to measure of course, and many people moved for a better job, as well. Thanks for your question.
gregrod87 02:09PM	No reason to stay bornfree. I left in Dec 2005. High Taxes, High cost of Living and idiots in government caused me to scram. I now live in Georgia. Better Weather, New Homes for 200k that would cost 550k in Boston. I moved from Easton, MA. Never coming back. Maybe to visit. I do miss cap cod but not courts who vote things into law w/o the people having input nor the liberals who flip flop on everyhting.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:10PM	Thanks, Gregrod87, for your thoughts. Many people who moved said they were also happy to live in a more conservative state. The results showed that was a "major factor" for 12 percent of people.
toodles 02:11PM	Michael, in response to your question: Other than family I can't imagine why anyone would stay in MA. I moved to Southern CA and couldn't be happier. People bring up things like museums but every major city in the US has museums. The only thing MA has a monopoly on is the worst weather imaginable. The cost of living in Southern CA is high but, unlike MA, at least I feel like I'm paying a lot and getting a lot in return. In MA, I was paying a lot for nothing.
CBS 02:11PM	How do you know that you have a representative sample of those people who left the state?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:12PM	Good question. We tried to get a random sampling from public records of people who have moved. I was told the only group that might be underrepresented were college students who tend to register less with utilities, telephone service and the like.
broy 02:12PM	Harvard, BU, BC, Northeastern, WPI, Tufts, and hundreds more I'm forgetting.... that's a reason to stay here.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:13PM	Thanks, broy, for your thoughts on why someone might want to stay here in this state.
imma 02:14PM	Hi Michael - great article! My question was how many of the people who left MA were born and raised in MA. There was one fellow who complained about the rudeness in MA but it turned out he was originally from Wisconsin, and decided to return there. Are other stories similar, or did you see a lot of MA natives leaving?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:16PM	That's a great question and I'm not sure I have the data on hand to answer it. We did poll on how long people had lived in the state: the results showed 45 percent of those moved had lived here for more than 20 years. So they were pretty firmly rooted here, before taking off. The next biggest group, perhaps not surprisingly, was those people who had lived here for fewer than 5 years.
toodles 02:17PM	Michael, your article dealt with people who had actually managed to escape..err..leave MA. Did you come across any feeling that, in addition to those that left, there were also large numbers who expressed a desire to leave but could not?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:19PM	Certianly after the article ran, the emails I got back indicated this is also a big feeling among people. Of course, who among us hasn't at some point wondered if the grass isn't really greener on the other side. Our poll focused only on those who had already moved, but clearly there's a large group of peole who would like to move and have not yet -- or cannot afford to pick up and go.
bigwillie 02:21PM	Why the assumption that this migration is a bad thing? Isn't this area too crowded already? We won't be happy until the entire State is paved over and looks like Hong Kong? Let'm go!
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:22PM	Thanks, bigwillie, for your comments. Reading Boston.com, I saw plenty of people who shared your sentiments --- people saying this will make the state a lot less crowded. Thanks for writing.
yogurt 02:23PM	I lived in Boston for a couple of years after college. I found that as a young person it was too competitive ie I'd really have to work my way from the bottom, even if I did have qualifications., probably because the area is flooded with graduates as it is. On the other hand, I can't think of another city with so much energy and with so much character besides NYC.
gregrod87 02:23PM	Toodles I agree!
Stopher 02:24PM	I'd like to mention again one of the reasons mentioned earlier that no one seemed to spend much time on- the manners and attitude of the Massachusetts natives. I was born in MA and have been here for the past 33 years. After traveling to just about every US region as well as abroad, I can say with certainty that we are hands down the most rude and unfriendly people on earth. Having been here my entire life I am used to it by I blame no one from out of state for complaining about us!
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:24PM	Thanks, Stopher, for your comments.
jrome 02:25PM	It seems like MA is getting a bad rap. What about people who love it here. I lived in GA, NH and PA for several years and longed to come back to Boston. I couldn't be happier to be back in MA.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:25PM	thanks, jrome.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:27PM	Someone else wrote in to say they just graduated college and found the job market here way too competitive and way too difficult to break into, although she loved the culture here. Interestingly, this was something I heard about also in my interviews, even from people who had been worknig here for several years. Some said they felt they had a better chance of working in a top rung at their job outside the state -- one person I profiled, Brent Antony, is now a CIO in Tennessee, managing 140 people as opposed to 35 at his old job in Massachusetts.
Mrs. Peel 02:28PM	Michael, doing a study is all well and good, but in the end, it doesn't mean anything unless the politicians take steps to end this emigration and make MA affordable. Have you gotten any inquiries from Beacon Hill on the poll?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:30PM	Well, I'm talking to some of the candidates for governor today for a follow-up story. Maybe I could ask folks out there - if there's one thing that would help keep you in the state - or get you to move back -- what would that be? Any suggestins for our candidates for governor?
unemployed 02:30PM	Hello..I am 50 yrs old and just got laid off because I "have no skills", conviently I just turned 50 and have had 2 hospitilizations in 3 yeasr..coincidence..my guess is NO...I may ahve to leave the state< I can't afford it
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:31PM	Thanks for writing and sharing your experience. I hope things work out for you, in whichever state you end up in.
Pat Washburn (Moderator) 02:32PM	On the other hand, I work in Boston because there are no opportunities in New Hampshire that pay what the Boston job does.
walthambiz 02:32PM	I'm glad the Globe is working on this story. It's a major issue that has to be addressed. I'm not moving in search of a better job, but every day I consider moving my business (we are national in scope) out because there is a serious labor shortage of people with about two years of college--my ideal employee. They just can't afford to stay here. Of my twenty five employees, the only ones that have houses or condos are the people over 60 or married couples. Singles just can't afford it, and they are making significant money. If I moved them to Tampa, they'd all have three bedroom houses with pools.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:33PM	Thanks for writing. You raise a serious issue about businesses being able to stay here, employ people in this state, and have them live comfortably here. We'll try to stay on top of the issue. Thanks for your comments.
echealy 02:35PM	Excellent chat. Any info on whether people who leave are less stress once they get out of expensive, unfriendly, too-liberal Mass.
chatting 02:35PM	Not to turn this political, but I am so proud of living in the only state with complete civil rights!
Midwestern gal 02:35PM	You go Mrs. Peel!! Now that I'm here, is there anything that's being done to make MA more affordable?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:37PM	Hi echealy, thanks for your note. Well, we didn't poll on stress levels. But clearly from the poll, 56 percent said they were "very satisfied" with their move and only 37 percent said they would move back to MA someday. One thing that kept coming up in my interviews was a sense that life was less stressful outside Massachusetts. A few people wrote to me to say that Western Massachusetts offers a less stresful environment than Greater Boston, as well.
walthambiz 02:38PM	Ok, for our gubenatorial candidates: I'd like to see some way to limit the negative housing impacts of local options such as more restrictive zoning and title 5 requirements (than state levels) to increase the supply of housing (and hopefully mitigate the price level). The Pioneer Institute had a big study on this earlier in the year, but I've seen no response by our politicians.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:39PM	Thanks, Walthambiz, for your comments, and for pointing out one study proposing a possible remedy.
ted 02:39PM	Thats because they are all miserable! My family and I moved to central NH 10 months ago and love it! Don't have to have a benz to drive around town in. Size of my house doesn't matter either!
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:39PM	Thanks, Ted. I'm glad things are working out for you and your family in New Hampshire. Thanks for writing.
Mrs. Peel 02:40PM	Preferential mortgage rates for first-time buyers/long-time residents. I don't need a "luxury development," I just want to buy a nice little home in Boston.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:40PM	Thanks, Mrs. Peel, for your comments, as well.
Stopher 02:41PM	Is there a source of information for the resident who is entertaining the idea of moving? Items's of interest such as median home price, median salary etc but also political make-up (Left/Right), religious makeup (religion scares me- so Texas and the SouthEast make me wary....but possibly for no reason....) Having lived here my whole life I think about leaving all the time......but where to?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:42PM	Interesting. I don't know of any clearinghouse myself. Does anybdoy know of one out there?
toodles 02:42PM	Michael, in your research did you uncover whether other states are having to deal with serious emigration issues? I know NY is, but are there any others where emigration is posing a serious concern?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:44PM	Yes. I believe 20 states are losing people these days to emigration. New York is one, so is California, I believe. In general, Bill Frey, a demographer at the Brookings Institution, told me that the big cities of the East -- Boston, New York, DC -- as well as San Francisco on the West Coast and Chicago in the Midwest -- are losing people. These places, he said, all have high housing costs, which seems to be a major fatcor prompting people to move.
landlordworries 02:45PM	jobs, jobs, jobs. Too many large companies have left MA or merged, taking the headquarters away. What can the next governor do to bring back high paying jobs?
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:46PM	Thanks for your thoughts, as well. That's a huge issue, as well. And our poll showed a job is still the No. 1 reason for which people move to another state.
walthambiz 02:47PM	Stopher: Each state that actually wants people and businesses has some type of web site addressing all the issues necessary to make a move. I've never found any comparative sites, but the chambers of commerce in each city/state also have a lot.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:47PM	thanks for that suggestion.
Matador 02:48PM	Well I grew up here, moved away, and came back. Here's what I can tell you that the studies / articles miss: MA is the third most densly populated state in the country. Whether you're talking about people or deer or whatever there is a natural shift toward less populated places. The first thing not considered is that the geography of MA means that a lot of its growth is going to be in other states. 30 miles north of Dallas in Frisco, TX is booming. It's booming here too - except that 30 miles north of Boston in the NH border. So people are still feeding off the Boston / MA market. There are always going to be areas that are creating tax incentives for jobs and luring business and so on. But those areas do not necessarily have sustainable long term growth plans. I worked on a project that brought about 400 jobs to Colorado Springs through a tax abatement and research grant. Well that runs out in 6 years and another city will come along looking to lure the people away. If people complain
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:49PM	Thanks as well, Matador, for writing in to share your experience.
farmerdan 02:49PM	Job-growth and and streamlined permitting/regulation for more housing (and business) are really the only things that can be done. Once those are taken care of, the rest will work itself out. There's not much that can be done about the weather, the (overblown) rudeness, or the state's liberal bent.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:50PM	Thanks, farmerdan.
WannaLuvMA 02:51PM	I am not originally from Mass, but I have lived here seven years and I do love the area. I find people a bit reserved but not rude or snobby (I am originally from Wisconsin). But, I don't know that I will be able to stay living here any longer. I pay huge student loans, have not had a raise in over five years, and can't keep up with the increases in everything. The latest proposed increases in the T may just be the straw that breaks this camel's back.....
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:52PM	Well, thanks for writing. Here's someoene who wants to stay here, but is clearly worried about the pinch from T prices. Again, these bread and butter economic issues keep coming up, squeezing people out of the state -- even people who want to stay.
Mrs. Peel 02:53PM	It will be interesting to revisit this topic in 10 years or so to see if emigration from blue states has any affect on the politics of red states so popular with relocators. Might make some of them a little purplish . . .
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:54PM	I agree. It would be great to follow up in a few years, and find out if people do move back to MA, or if they begin to change the politics of the states they now call home. Hopefully, 5, 10 years down the road we can get another poll on the issue.
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:56PM	Well, this has been a real pleasure for me, my first Boston.com chat. Thanks to everyone for writing and sharing your thoughts and perspective. Feel free to send me emails as well, if you didn't get a chance to write in today. All the best to everyone, no matter which state you call home. -- Michael
Michael Levenson (Moderator) 02:56PM	I see my time is up. With that, I'll sign off for now... All the best.