DNC on hot seat over Florida and Michigan

it is ALL about electability now.

Must read for those into American politics!!!!
I found some brilliant/awesome analysis on Obama’s current happenings on the campaign trail. I haven’t seen anything like this mentioned anywhere in the MSM.
Check out the article “Super Tuesday 2: Revenge of the Clintons” on http://savagepolitics.com/?p=177, “Follow the Money” on http://savagepolitics.com/?p=165, “Bush’s Twin and the G.O.P.” http://savagepolitics.com/?p=172 and “Barack Obama’s Apotasy” http://savagepolitics.com/?p=101
Check their “Political Analysis” and “Humor” sections for other striking perspectives and comedic analysis on both parties.

The contests most certainly were "fully contested". In Florida, all the candidates were on the ballot. In Michigan, the candidates--including Barack Obama--who were not on the ballot were not on because of their own CHOICE to take themselves off. If you remove yourself from the ballot, then, guess what? You won't get any votes, now will you? Oh well, cry me a river. Next time, perhaps you will consider leaving your name on the ballot! But the fact that someone CHOSE to remove their name from a ballot doesn't mean it wasn't a fair election!!!

SEAT OUR DELEGATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are two ways to get Florida/Michigan delegates seated.
1. Schedule a Party authorized primary, with sufficient time for campaigning.
2. Split your pledged delegation 50/50 Obama/Clinton and go to the big show.

Why did you break the rules? Why do undocumented people break the rules?

Seat the delegates. It was the DNC and the state officials who decided the votes would not count. The people did not make that decision and it is unconstitutional to disenfranchise them.

Your states chose to not play by the rules and hold your primaries early!! Boo-hoo!
Next time follow the rules that were laid out and you wouldn't be in this sitution. And by the way for you Clinton supporters....if she was ahead of Obama by 100 or so delegates and he was the only one on the Michigan ballot....I GUARANTY she would not be demanding the delegates be seated!

This is ridiculous..Obama and the other candidates, except Clinton, simply followed the rules of the DNC and now Obama is being punished for following the rules? He wasnt on the ballot in MI, counting that would be extremely unfair. Clinton, as usual, will say and do anything to win. Including tearing down fellow democrats.

Hillary agread in September (when she thought she had the nomination in the bag) that deligates shouldn't count from these states. If you want to win the game you have to play by the rules. Changing them half way through makes her and the party look like 4 year olds.

'Do over' sounds more junior-high but it may make could sense at this point (considering the general election implications).

This just seems to prove that she will do or say anything to stay afloat politically. Reminds me of Bill when he got impeached.

Florida and Michigan were told they would loose their delegates if they voted early. If you violate DNC rules and ignore DNC warnings, guess what? You won't get any delegates, now will you? Oh well, cry me a river. Next time, perhaps you shouldn't try to take a short-cut to the front of the line. But the fact that these states CHOSE to violate the DNC eligibility rules doesn't mean it wasn't a fair election!!! Michigan and Florida you made your bed, now you have to sleep in it (while the rest of the party goes to Denver).

You CHOSE to hold your primary early in defiance of the Democratic National Committee, and now you want to have the rules changed? Oh well, cry me a river. Fully contested contests would have involved campaigning, which neither of these votes did. Clinton should not be rewarded by the DNC for defying the DNC and leaving her name on the ballot in Michigan.

If the DNC allows the Florida and Michigan delegates to be seated, I know several Democrats who will be leaving the party.

DON"T SEAT THEIR DELEGATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was agreed to by all that those states delegates would not count. Everyone abided by the national rules except the corrupt Clinton machine. When is the public going to wake up and rea;ize that we are once again allowing a corrupt power couple to get in control of our futures! Doesn't America remember the impeachment proceedings, corrupt legal scandals, failed healthcare reform, etc. etc......Now, like lemings we are allowing them back into our klives. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!

Hillary Clinton originally supported that these states not seat their delegates and now that she is losing, she wants them to be seated!! What Hypocrisy!! Look, if the states want to do a "do-over" and allow both candidates to campaign fairly and be on both ballots, that sounds fine. I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that Hillary wants these states to count after she voted for them not to. Barack wasn't even on the Michigan ballot and she still got less than half the vote. She makes it sound like Obama is the one disenfranchising the voters. Letting those delegates seat the way they are now is REAL voter disenfranchisement. How many millions of voters in Michigan and Florida DIDN'T show up at the polls because they knew their vote wouldn't count? If the DNC is going to count those votes, have a "do-over" and be fair to the candidates and the voters!! That is the only democratic way to do this!!

Come on!!!! They broke the rules and messed the whole thing up royally. You want Clinton to get the delegates from Michigan when she was the only one of the Democrats who sided with the rule changers. Come on where is your sense of fairness!!

Clinton agreed as did all the other candidates not to campaign in Florida or to be on the ballot in Michigan - but it was a "mistake" - she accidentally put herself on the ballot - and accidentally campaigned in Florida. Sneaky politics as usual. It shows me exactly what kind of scruples she has. She's willing to win at any cost.

If they want their delegates seated, they should re-vote. Both candidates should be able to campaign. Both should be on the ballot.

These elections clearly were not fair. Florida and Michigan decided to move their primaries ahead of the usual schedule. The two major parties warned states that doing so would result in penalties to their delegates, but Florida and Michigan did so anyway. If any voters in Florida and Michigan feel as if they have been disenfranchised, they should direct their grievances toward the responsible parties: their state legislators.

Florida and Michigan, the DNC made the rules, your state reps broke the rules. If I lived in either of your states, I would be demanding the heads of my state reps, not the DNC. Who do you think you are to break the rules when every other state abode by them? Your delegates must sit home and watch the convention on TV with the rest of us. If your states' delegates are seated, it will be mayhem, and McCain will win the election easily. Think twice before pushing for special treatment. It's not in the nation's best interest to split the Democratic Party and hand the election to the Republicans. Haven't we learned anything over the last 40 years?

The Florida delegation, at least, should be seated. Everyone was on the ballot but no campaigning was done. Even playing field.

Michigan is another story. Did the DNC request that candidates not put their names on the ballot?

No matter what, a condition of being seated should be a pledge to more the primaries back.

Why do I get the feeling that Hilary would be screaming bloody murder if the shoe were on the other foot? It's part of the Clinton's proud legacy of entitlement and self-serving rationalization.

That said, the fact that Hilary is a WEASEL doesn't mean people in Michigan and Florida should be disenfranchised. So do it over. Seems appropriate that they should be the LAST two primaries seeing as they tried to leap frog over everyone else. Then maybe we'll have a nominee.

Florida and Michigan choose to ignore the rules put in place by the DNC and RNC and therefore lost the privilage of their delegates. What a surprise that the Democrates don't like the outcome of their political process and rules. So true to their nature they change their minds and try to manipulate the system to suit their needs. And everyone thinks things will be better under a Democratic White House. What does this potential move to seat the delegates after they were excluded say about their sticking to their decisions?

Can't change the rules after the contest is over. I'm sure Clinton would be singing a different tune if she hadn't won. Fact is, Obama didn't campaign in those states or run in Michigan because the party said the delegates would not sit and thus the elections were meaningless. Even if he was on the ballot in Florida many people didn't vote because since the primary wasn't supposed to count, so no matter the margin of victory it's meaningless.

Do-over vote is reasonable, otherwise NO WAY can those delegates be counted now. If DNC reverses its decision and hands the nomination to Clinton I'll renounce my party membership the same day and I'll NEVER vote democrat again no matter who the candidate is.

Sen. Hillary Clinton has declined to return $170,000 in campaign contributions from individuals at a company accused of widespread sexual harassment, and whose CEO is a disbarred lawyer with a criminal record, federal campaign records show.

The federal government has accused the Illinois management consulting firm, International Profit Associates, or IPA, of a brazen pattern of sexual harassment including "sexual assaults," "degrading anti-female language" and "obscene suggestions."

In a 2001 lawsuit full of lurid details, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission claims that 103 women employees at IPA were victimized for years. The civil case is ongoing, and IPA vigorously denies the allegations.

"This is by far, hands down, the worst case I've ever experienced," said Diane Smason, one of the EEOC lawyers handling the lawsuit. "Every woman there experienced sex harassment, they were part of a hostile work environment of sex harassment. And this occurred from the top down."

Sen. Clinton's spokesman, Howard Wolfson, told NBC News in a statement that the senator decided to keep the funds because the lawsuit is "ongoing" and because none of the sexual harassment allegations has been proven in court.

"With regard to the pending harassment suit, as a general matter, the campaign assesses findings of fact in deciding whether to return contributions," Wolfson said.
From NBC's Lisa Myers and Jim Popkin

And:
Right Wing Canadian Prime Minister Tied to Leak Slurring Obama
http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rob_kall_080304_oen_nails_right_wing.htm

Ot the people, by the people and for the people. How in the world can Florida and Michigan voters who made an effort to have their voices heard as part of the primary process be ignored. The saying is ' don't complain if you don't vote'. BUT I DID VOTE. I voted for Senator Clinton and I want that vote to count!!!

It seems unrealistic to dictate to states when they can hold their primaries. Living in Northern California, I'm used to the time zones making our votes irrelevant in outcomes of Presidential elections, but it would really make me angry if the DNC threw out our input at the convention over something as arbitrary as holding primaries when we darned well felt like it. In the present to-do, I think that candidates who kept their names on the ballot were standing up for Florida and Michigan voters and shouldn't be penalized by having those votes not counted and the delegates not seated at the convention. If there's a "revote", let the DNC finance it as well as candidates who took their name/s off because they were more concerned with being perceived as goody-two-shoes rather than honoring the wishes of those states' voters.

Yet again the dems have found a way to lose in November. For Obama to win the nomination, he'll have to fight off negative attacks from within his own party for three months while McCain gains momentum. For Hillary to win the nomination, she'll have to use lawyers to recapture votes from FL and MI and sway more than her proportional share of superdelegates, which will wreak of scandal and cause tons of dems and independents to vote republican in the general election. What a disaster. What a screwed up way to pick a nominee. And they party only has itself to blame. I am a liberal but at this point I honestly think I might be done with the democratic party for good. The first election I could vote in I get Gore, then Kerry, now this! When are you going to give me something to get excited about? Honestly, dems, the only chance to keep millions of young voters on your side is to tell Hillary to stop crying and do the math. Don't let her drag this thing out so she can still lose by 50 delegates! Don't let her sway Washington insider superdelegates into picking her when the popular vote is with Obama! It is a recipe for disaster, and even if Obama survives the Clinton machine, if it takes until June, he wont recover in time to beat McCain.

Both Crist and Granholm knew what would happen when they supported earlier primary dates; why now are they trying to change course? Would either governor make such public calls were Obama behind, had he prevailed in their states’ primaries? Surely not. It is argued that Crist’s endorsee, McCain, would fair better against Clinton than he would against Obama. Granholm is openly in favor of Hillary for president. The conflicts of interest and timing make for a questionable and desperate combination. But then again, perhaps these two leaders are simply looking out for the good people of their states…perhaps.

honor your word. follow the rules.
Integrity prevails.

The DNC should hold re primaries in Both states to be fair and delegates should be seated based on who wins these two states.
The DNC is being rediculus about the "rules" that both states seem to be punished for holding primaries before they should have.
I thought that the United States of America mean just that "THE UNITED STATES ALL 50OF THEM!!!!

What about the candidates who have dropped out? Had the Florida and Michigan primaries counted, would it have made a difference when some of them dropped out or not? If candidate "X" had gotten a few more votes, would it have played out differently on the decision to drop out or not?

At the end of the day, I believe not, but in fairness to these candidates, I do not think that they should rerun these elections.

These two scenarios are the only fair solutions to Florida and Michigan:

The Florida delegates should be awarded in accordance with what ever allocation formula Florida would have used had the DNC not disqualified the state's delegation. Clinton and Obama were both on the ballot. I understand that Obama ran some commercials in the state, and Clinton held at least one fundraiser. However, nether candidate campaigned in the state extensively. Thus, both candidates were evenly impacted, so the vote count was fair and legitimate. Therefore, the delegates should be awarded appropriately and seated at the convention.

The Michigan delegates won by Clinton should be awarded to her under the state's formula established prior to the election. Any delegates not awarded to Clinton should be awarded as "undeclared," and those delegates can support either Clinton or Obama at the convention. This would be fair because Clinton left her name on the ballot, while Obama did not. Therefore, votes for Clinton should be credited to her, however, non-Clinton votes cannot be awarded to Obama because those votes would not necessarily have been votes for Obama. This is especially true given that John Edwards was still campaigning when the Michigan primary was held, and his anti-corporate greed platform would have been popular with Michigan voters. I also think it is fair to credit Clinton's votes to her because she was willing to risk the wrath of the DNC by leaving her name on the ballot, while Obama withdrew his name from the ballot to appease the DNC. If the DNC takes those votes away from Clinton by way of a “do-over” caucus, the DNC will imbed itself even further into the mess it created.

Read this article and then relax. You can't impose a penalty and then say oh no wait we need those votes now after the fact. What's done is done. Don't break the rules. Had both states kept their scheduled dates, they would be important instead of a moot point...as they were and should be treated. I did not hear Clinton requesting a look at Florida and Michigan before, during or shortly after those primaries. It is all polical BS at this point and insulting quite honestly...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/01/AR2007120100722.html

Isn't it just amazing????!!!!! NOW, Hillary wants those delegates counted!!!! Florida and Michigan were told the rules and the consequences; they broke the rules; and NOW they want their votes to count!!!!????? If those 2 states are allowed to be counted, what message is that giving to all the other states who abided by the rules? What will happen the next election? Will every state decide to have their primaries whenever they want? Why not.....Florida and Michigan got away with it in 2008!!!!!

"If the DNC allows the Florida and Michigan delegates to be seated, I know several Democrats who will be leaving the party."

I do as well.

Clinton should just bow out for the good of the party but she seems intent to do what's best for the Clintons and now that means changing the rules for her benefit.
I will leave forever if the person who has more won delegates and more won votes doesn't get the nomination and right now that is Mr. Obama. If it happens to be Mrs. Clinton then I'll support her but not by adding these states without a re do and the one who leads at the end wins. I also hate this Super Delegate thing and this might make me a Republican too. The people should decide who they want for President not some Super anything.

I hope that at the next debate Tim Russert asks Clinton why she supported stripping the delegates back in the fall, but now supports counting them. Then she can squirm and complain that the media hates her.
.
Or, is it that she's a liar and a sleaze and all the media is doing is asking her to explain her actions. Ask Obama about the NAFTA-Canada scandal and he'll tell you exactly why it's bull, and he won't have to pause to come up with a nice whopper to lay on the American people first. So if Clinton's not guilty of similar indiscretions then answering the questions about them should be no problem.

Count the delegates without a revote, lose in November. Period.

The citizens of Fla and Mich should be enraged at their state representatives for failing to take their populace into account when moving the primaries. What's that say about the people who are supposedly your 'voice' people? But the fact remains, they chose to be greedy at your expense and now you all get to pay the price. Those are the rules set forth by the DNC, and everyone plays by them... even if they're not winning the election.

Why is a Florida idiot on these boards? Shouldn't she be busy watching her home equity sink into Lake Okeechobee?

Love this, too:

What a surprise that the Democrates don't like the outcome of their political process and rules. So true to their nature they change their minds and try to manipulate the system to suit their needs

Well, New Hampshire Independent, the Republican Party is doing the exact same thing, as the story spelled out in itsy-bitsy words for you. No wonder they say your family tree has no branches.

Anyway:

No do-overs for anybody.

Otherwise, next time all the states will hold their primaries in December.

The arguments that the decision by the DNC is "the rule" and everybody must keep quite and abide by it, and 'Obama simply followed the rules' are rediculous to say the least. Why?

1. These rules you are talking about didn't come down from the heavens. Most rules are meant to be amended to fit the needs of the moment. Now, if you want to argue whether changing this 'rule' is the best thing to do, fine. But don't make it sound like a dogma. The democractic party must do what it sees serves its interest and the interest of its members best.

2. The argument that Obama would be punished for simply following the rules is just balony. It may have been following the rules to not campaign in those states, but it is going extra miles to take your name off the ballot and it is an even more extra miles to argue for NOT bringing these two states into the race. If we are to call a decision to repeat elections in these two states a punishment, it is a punishment because of the stupid choices Obama made. He miscalculated. Specially considering the fact that the understanding has always been there that these two states could be brought to the picture in one way or another, he miscalculated big time. Today, if we are to say that Clinton is playing politics when she pushes for the reconsideration of the "rule" because she thinks it puts her on an advantage, so is Obama when he argues against it, because he knows it will likely put him at a disadvantage. However, it is more shameful for him because of the way he has chosen to define his campaign. You would think that a man who preaches about the 'voices of the weak' being heard would be the one to stand up for the voices of the democrats of the two states regardless of the disadvantage it puts him on if he is the man of principle he says he is. 'The man that does the right thing regardless of the politics involved.'

If what it takes for voters to find out the true colors of candidates is to create the kind of crisis the two state democrats are now in, may be they should do more of that.

You cannot seat the delegates as is because in doing so every state will attempt to break to the rules next cycle. You just can't do it.

Florida contains 18 million people which is 6% of the U.S. population, and Michigan 10 million and 3.3%, respectively. This is a total of 9.3% of the U.S.

Is it democratic that almost 10% of the U.S. is not able to participate in the determination of the next Democratic nominee for President?

You this is a problem? Come the election in November, folks in Florida and Michigan may just say, to heck with you, Democrats, and either cast their vote for McCain or just not vote. This will be like handing the Presidency to McCain! Is this what we want?

The DNC and the Democrats need to find a solution so that Florida and Michigan can participate in the democratic process. Not to be punished because they broke some "rules" and wanted to hold their primaries earlier than allowed.

Obama is so full of it!! Every time I hear him speak I want to puke. Give me a break. I've been voting since 1996. I've voted for a democrat in every election. I'm voting for McCain if Obama is the democratic candidate. Obama is the GW Bush of 2008. The guy everyone loves, but with no experience. That's what got us in the situation we're in today. I don't buy his bull*hit argument that anyone from Washington is corrupt. However, I do think that someone with very little experience doesn't know what they're doing. If you disagree with that point, then I've got 4 years experience at your company.... Am I ready to be your CEO. I didn't think so....

Beth, your argument fails for the following reason: You cannot set rules and then change them in the middle of the game. When you point out in your comment that rules are meant to be amended, you ignore the fact that the amendments should only apply prospectively. Let's suppose you learn, after filing your taxes on April 15, that the rule was being changed to require you to file by March 15 and, due to the new rule, your return would be considered late. Changing rules after the fact is absurd.

As a Florida voter-I feel very disenfranchised. There's all this talk about how the democrats in control moved the primary knowing it was not okay so they chose their fate but...guess what-- this was not OUR choice, the people's choice.

so to everyone saying "florida and michigan knew the rules so tough luck" I ask you to consider this had NOTHING to do with voters... and maybe those now in power can help our votes be counted.

it feels awful to not have my vote count. i hope it is righted.

you are all wrong she agreed to not campaign in florida but she never said she didnt or wouldnt expect the delegates to be seated. This is just obama's people trying to sway the words again!!!!

The DNC is not the Comintern: they cannot disenfranchise the voters of two states. As far as I am concerned, they should be sued. We already know who won those states. The job of the superdelegates is to pick the person who can beat the Republican. Clinton has won in all large, serious states. Obama has won the flake states, most of which are red states in the final event.

If the job of the superdelegates were to reflect the will of the people, you wouldn't have your two senator superdelegates, Kennedy and Kerry, flying in the face of the voters of Massachusetts. They are left liberal presidential losers, and so is Obama. Left liberals do not win general elections. Nominating them is why we have held the White House only 12 of the last 40 years.

Well if the DNC wants to punish FLA and Michigan now and not make thier delegates count, Then they should not count for the dems in the fall either. If they want to make up stupid rules, since FLA and MICh moved up thier primary earlier. BOO HOO, who cares who votes first.... it is really stupid....how they let IOWA and N.H. always first. Thier populations are tiny compared to these states and do not represent most americans. It's all stupid.

Guys (and gals): in addition to my earlier comments of yesterday, I must pop back in and add a few more points because there are a LOT of misconceptions and untruths in some of your posts, so let a Florida Democrat set the record straight:

1. None of the candidates broke the pledge not to campaign in Florida. Obama did, however, have one national ad on CNN that ran here, but in fairness to him, I think that was unintentional, so I'm willing to leave it that none of them broke that pledge. As for Hillary, I don't know why some Obama supporters keep insisting that she "broke the rules", because she most certainly did NOT: she did NOT campaign here, which is what the agreement that the DNC pressured all the candidates into stipulated . She did come down AFTER the election to say a few words to the Florida Democratic voters, but that was not a violation of the rules at all.

2. As the setting of the primary date, I don't know exactly how it unfolded in Michigan, but here in Florida I can tell you: It was the Republican-controlled--let me stress that--REPUBLICAN-controlled--state legislature that set the primary date of 1/29/08. The four million innocent, long-suffering Democratic voters of Florida had NO say in it and NOTHING to do with it. True, some of the Democrats in the legislature did go along with it, but only because it was lumped in with other legislation that would require a paper ballot trail, which I think we can all agree was much needed. The repubs know that the Dems in the legislature couldn't vote against legislation containing provisions for a paper ballot, so they pushed it all through as one package. The Democrats knew that the primary date change would go through with or without them, so they voted for the paper ballot. ANYWAY, my point in getting so long-winded there is this: don't punish and disenfranchise millions of voters for what a REPUBLICAN legislature did.

3. Last but not least, I must say again: As for Obama not being on the ballot in Michigan: that was totally HIS choice! He WAS on the ballot, but decided to remove himself. No "rule" said he had to. He was pandering to Iowa and New Hampshire, trying to get their votes with that little move. He never figured he might NEED the huge, diverse, swing states of Michigan and Florida. Oooops! So much for the judgement he is so proud of sporting.

The elections in BOTH Florida and Michigan were free and fair. Our delegates should be seated.

And I dearly hope that we will move to a fair system of rotating, regional primaries in future so that a party-fracturing primary situation like this never happens again. I am so dismayed at how contentious we all are among ourselves, at a time when we should be so energized, fired-up and unified to take back the White House! IMHO, this is ALL Howard Dean & Donna Brazile's fault, but don't get me started on the DNC. All we can do now about the circular firing squad they have assembled is to try to UNCIRCLE it and SEAT THE DELEGATES.

P.S. Note: I just referred at one point in my last post to my earlier comments, but I just realized afterwards that I posted those earlier comments under the moniker "Florida Democrat", so if anyone was looking to refer to those and couldn't find them, SORRY. My bad.

I am a voter from Michigan...where the delegates being seated is in an upraor. Heck NO these delegates should not be seated as Hillary Clinton agreed before placing herself on the Florida & Michigan Ballots to these delegates not being seated, and now she is changing her tune, and trying to change the game because it would benefit her. But if that were Barack Obama demanding these delegates be seated, and he didn't play by the rules or keep to that agreement, Hillary Clinton would be fighting that tooth, and nail to keep it from happening. She would also be crying foul, and legally trying to keep it from happening.

All HIllary Clinton voters had better wake up to her shinanigans because this is exactly how she will be running the White House if you elect her. Forget her ad about a ohone ringing and who is more qulaified to answer that 3am call. Because she sure isn't!! What has she actually done when it comes to Homeland Security, and foriegn relations....NOTHING!!!

That is the main reason I will never vote for HIllary Clinton..she is a wolf in sheeps
clothing....DO NOT SEAT THOSE DELEGATES..DEMAND A REDO!!! OUR VOICES SHOULD BE HEARD...and so should Florida's but only when it is FAIR!!!

Had the Michigan Primaries not been held early, this woudln't have happened...so most of this was caused by the Governement of the States of Florida & Michigan... they are at fault..and they should pay for a REDO..not the DNC,and not the tax payers. Forget seating these delegates in favor of Hillary..I did not vote in the early voting here because all candidates were not on those ballots, and you could not write them in..and I guarantee you my vote would not have went to Hillary Clinton!!! I am a white 50 year old female, so race is not the reason here whatsoever for my comments. Those delegates should not be seated..plain and simple...that would be cheating, and Hillary plays a good game at that one!!!!

Right on to this comment by "David 2007": "Florida contains 18 million people which is 6% of the U.S. population, and Michigan 10 million and 3.3%, respectively. This is a total of 9.3% of the U.S. Is it democratic that almost 10% of the U.S. is not able to participate in the determination of the next Democratic nominee for President?"

BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why should millions upon millions of totally innocent, loyal, registered Democratic voters be punished because of an unfair rule that was broken by Republican state legislatures? The punishment doesn't fit the "crime" and, more importantly: IT PUNISHES THE WRONG PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It punishes us, the voters.

"David 2007" goes on to say: "Come the election in November, folks in Florida and Michigan may just say, to heck with you, Democrats, and either cast their vote for McCain or just not vote. This will be like handing the Presidency to McCain! Is this what we want?"

David, while I, as a loyal, lifelong Democrat, would never say "the heck with you, Democrats", I have decided that, if Obama becomes the nominee, I will NOT vote for him. For the very first time in my life, I will not cast a vote in the presidential election. Why? Well, it isn't because of all the reasons I don't like Obama, which are many. No, I would have cast those aside and rallied behind our nominee. But there is one thing I can't get past: Obama has consistently and snearingly DISMISSED the millions of voters in Florida and Michigan. He even had John Kerry, speaking for the Obama campaign, say that the elections were "illegitimate" and a "fabrication". While it is fair to dispute whether we should get delegates, it is NOT fair, imho, to dispute the election itself, or the results thereof. These were free and fair elections that garnered a RECORD TURNOUT. None of the candidates campaigned in FL, so it was a totally even playing field. And AGAIN, as for Obama not being on the ballot, that was his, quite stupid and short-sighted, CHOICE. Bottom line for me is this: Since Obama clearly doesn't want my vote to count in the primary election, he will CERTAINLY not get it in the general election. Much as it greatly pains me to even contemplate not voting in an election, especially after what I, as a Florida Democrat and ardent Al Gore aficionado/supporter went through in 2000, I will NOT vote for Obama. If my vote is so illegitimate and fabricated in the primary, I guess he won't miss it in the general.

Yes and even Obama talked about seating Florida Delegates pror to losing and was qouted in a Miami Newspaper. Stating it would be wrong not to seat Florida and Michigan.
What has changed is that Obama lost.

Mr. Kool-aid man plays like he's and angel when it is he that stirred up the racial bit. I must say he was very clever and if I am to be honest if Hillary had been the African American she might have played it too.

Obama has as much admited that he is almost untouchable. How can that B really hurt me? The more she comes after me the more its like hunting Bambi.

All I have to do is say ths is just Hillary being Hillary, and the press will beat her up for me.

That is the Obama I know! So your angel is no angel.

Oh there is one thing you have to ask yourself? Do you want a democrat in the whitehouse? If so you can not afford to stick by your principle o a rule is a rule. If you do, you may win the battle but lose the war. You think that 20% will be a bit upset in the general election and want to send a message. Also McCain is moderate and so they will not feel that much pain voting for him particularly the older voters. So better get a collection plate to fund the redo or let them stand as is, because if you don't McCain is the next President.

I have no idea where most of the people making these comments have been. I seem to remember many good things from the 8 years with the Clintons in office, The big one which we all should appreciate is a balanced budget, world relations, national security, new jobs, a low forclosure rate. Every delegate in Florida and Michigan should count. Go back and get Obama on the ballot in Michigan. Have another primary and quit punishing the voters in Florida and Michigan. Let their voices be heard and let the cards fall where they will. This is a very important election and should be represented by the people. And I agree with #41's comment. This is the Obama machine doing what it does best causing total confusion for people that are so desperate to believe in him. Wake up America!

Were there any people who DID NOT VOTE because they knew their votes wouldn't count? If that is the case then it is WRONG to seat these delegates period

Were there any people who DID NOT VOTE because they knew their votes wouldn't count? If that is the case then it is WRONG to seat these delegates period

My question is - what gives the DNC the authority to dictate to the people of ANY state - when they may or may not hold an election? I heard we fought a civil war over the issue of STATES RIGHTS! Is the DNC now more powerful that any government. As for a do-over, well since they expect the STATE to pay for it and they refuse to recogize the one paid for by the STATE - then I say DNC - shell out the money to run it YOUR WAY. As a long time democrat and with this fiasco I've joined Lou Dobbs as an Independent. I'm done with you.

split delegates 50/50 or deduct the proper percentages of FL and MI delegate count from the 2025 total.. This is the only fair way.. Adjust the delegate total needed to win...