Clinton, Obama trade jabs on electability, honesty
By Susan Milligan and Scott Helman, Globe Staff
PHILADELPHIA -- Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton took their hard-fought battle for the Democratic nomination down to a deeply personal level in a nationally televised debate tonight, trading barbs on honesty, their appeal to working-class voters, and who would be a stronger candidate in November.
Clinton, struggling to gain momentum in the dwindling weeks of the primary campaign, accused Obama of associating with unsavory people, including his own former preacher, and questioned whether Obama -- whom she called "a good man'' -- could beat the GOP nominee in the fall.
"They're going to be out there in full force," Clinton said of the Republicans. "I've been in this arena for a long time. I have a lot of baggage and everybody has rummaged through it for years."
Obama, meanwhile, criticized the New York lawmaker for running a negative campaign, and said Clinton herself could not pass the electability test she was imposing on him.
"By Senator Clinton's own vetting standards, I don't think she would make it,'' he said.
While Clinton attacked Obama for his acquaintance with Bill Ayers, the former leader of the Weather Underground, a violent 1960s radical group, Obama noted that her husband, former president Bill Clinton, had pardoned two members of the same group. With Clinton's own political baggage, Obama said, "there is no doubt that the Republicans would attack either of us."
The debate, their 21st of the primary campaign but first in seven weeks, came at a critical juncture in the contest for the support of Pennsylvania Democrats, whose vote in Tuesday's primary will set the race's course. Clinton, who holds a narrow lead in the polls thanks to her political base of older and working-class voters, is seeking a big win to build momentum. Obama, ahead in delegates and popular vote, is angling for a knockout blow.
Both candidates used the nearly two-hour debate, broadcast by ABC from Philadelphia's National Constitution Center, to underscore the need to come together as Democrats and as a country. But they frequently interrupted their pleas for unity and reconciliation with jabs at each other.
Both senators -- Obama, a well-to-do lawyer and best-selling author who has earned more than $8 million over the past eight years, and Clinton, who with her former president husband, has collected some $109 million during that period -- cast themselves as champions of the working class. Clinton referred to her grandfather's history as a factory worker in Scranton; Obama recalled his childhood in a single-parent household and his work as a community organizer.
Clinton quickly seized the chance to attack Obama for his comments earlier this month that many economically struggling Pennsylvanians in small towns are "bitter'' and "cling to guns or religion."
"I think that is a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of religion and faith,'' Clinton said. "I similarly don't think that people cling to their traditions like hunting or guns when they are frustrated with the government. I can see why people would be taken aback or offended by the remarks."
Obama acknowledged that he "mangled'' his observation about small-town America, but said Clinton -- roundly attacked for saying in 1992 that she did not want to spend her days as First Lady baking cookies and holding teas -- should know better than to accuse home of being "elitist.''
"You take one person's statement that's not properly phrased, and you beat it to death, and that's what Senator Clinton's been doing over the past several days,'' Obama said. "That's not helping the person who's sitting behind the kitchen table, trying to pay bills.''
When Clinton was criticized for her comment about making cookies, "people attacked her for being elitist. I remember watching that on TV and saying, 'Well, that's not who she is.' "
Clinton used Obama's comments about "bitter" Pennsylvanians, his involvement with his controversial former pastor, the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., and his relationship with Ayers to raise concerns about Obama's electability.
"It's clear that as leaders that we have a choice about who we associate with, and who we kind of give our seal of approval to," Clinton said. "These are problems, and they raise questions in people's minds."
Obama acknowledged that many of Wright's remarks -- such as his sermon that America was responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks -- were "objectionable,'' but said he was not personally present for the sermons that have been replayed repeatedly and used against him.
"I believe that he loves this country,'' Obama said. But, he said, Wright is "also angry about the injustice that he sees.''
While Obama found himself on the defensive for most of the first hour of the debate, Clinton, too, was questioned about her honesty. In a new national ABC News/Washington Post poll, 54 percent of Democratic voters surveyed said they view her unfavorably, and 58 percent said she is not trustworthy.
A voter who appeared by videotape said Clinton "really lost my vote'' when she exaggerated the danger she faced when she took a trip to Bosnia in 1996 at first lady. Clinton had said several times in the campaign has said she made a "corkscrew'' landing and faced sniper fire as she traversed the tarmack -- an account proved wrong by TV footage showing a smiling Clinton greeted by a small Bosnian girl at an apparently calm airport.
"I have been embarrassed by it, I've apologized for it, and I've said it was a mistake," she said.
Neither candidate appeared pleased with the suggestion by former New York governor Mario M. Cuomo, a Democrat, that the two foes agree in advance to team up on a Democratic ticket.
"Yes, yes, yes,'' Clinton said when pressed to say whether she believes Obama can beat Arizona Senator John McCain in November. But "I think I'd do a better job,'' she said.
Asked a similar question about Clinton, Obama said, "Absolutely and I've said so before," before adding that he believes he would be the stronger nominee.
Love it how Obama tried to bamboozled the Ayers question. He said he was 8 when Ayers bombed New York. Nice try Obama. You were 30something when you worked for him at the Woods Project. You as an adult made the decision to work for a terrorist.
What a farce!! Not one question on a real issue was posed by Charlie or George in first hour. I logged onto ABC to enter comment and say how ashamed ABC and they should be and was faced with over 5000 entries already saying same in the worse terms imaginable. Bet that isn't reported on "Good Morning America" tomorrow. George and Charlie better never think of themselves as journalists again. What a sham! They owe the voters and especially people in Penn an apology. The media in general should be ashamed about all the vrap about "snipers in Bosnia", :bitter", or "flag and lapel pins", or "rev. wright", etc, when there's so many immense real issues to be answered for. Ugh!
RichieC Everett, MA
What a farce!! Not one question on a real issue was posed by Charlie or George in first hour. I logged onto ABC to enter comment and say how ashamed ABC and they should be and was faced with over 5000 entries already saying same in the worse terms imaginable. Bet that isn't reported on "Good Morning America" tomorrow. George and Charlie better never think of themselves as journalists again. What a sham! They owe the voters and especially people in Penn an apology. The media in general should be ashamed about all the vrap about "snipers in Bosnia", :bitter", or "flag and lapel pins", or "rev. wright", etc, when there's so many immense real issues to be answered for. Ugh!
RichieC Everett, MA
I am in shock at what I just watched. You call that a debate! II have never witnessed anything so utterly bias by a major network other than FOX. ABC should be ashamed of themselves. I hope they are crucified in the major media for what they were privy to.
Charles Gibson and George Steph. should be ashamed of themselves and should no longer call themselves journalist. ABC must have been bought out by Fox news and Sean Hannity. This was the most ridiculous and sad presidential debates I've ever seen. Not because of the candidates but because of ABC. Whowever wins they should agree to refuse to go on ABC news for the remainder of this election process.
Clinton needed a knock out blow and she did not land one tonight.
The "debate" centered on Senator Obama and was not well received as shown by the people in attendance booing Charles and George afterwards and the blogs on the net are out raged. Not just at the needless hammering of Obama but at what was done to Senator Clinton also. Not a good debate and ABC needs to find people who can ask questions that matter to the American people. The fact that George worked for the Clintons for years was apparent and leads one to wonder if she was not given access to the questions prior to the debate.,....that's just one of the thoughts on over 11 blogs I've visited tonight.
ABC LOST ITS CREDIBILITY AND AMBUSING OBAMA AND SUPPLYING QUESTIONS TO CLINTON IN ADVANCE OF THE DEBATE. SHE CONTINUALLY LOOKED DOWN AT HER NOTES WHEN ANSWERING LONG WIDEDLY. SOMETHINGS NEVER CHANGE. Gibson was aurgumentative and stupid as usual and he tried to be the center of attention and was unprofessional and puffed up and I am through with ABC news.
The debate questions were petty and pandered to the lowest common denominator. They neither elevated nor illuminated political discourse and certainly were of no help to any viewers who are undecided at this point. Overall, I thought Obama bore the brunt of unfair and irrelevant questions and that Hillary Clinton's repeated attempts to discredit Obama only served to make her look ruthless and divisive, not presidential. Why on earth would ABC waste air time asking Obama to explain why her doesn't always wear those little flag pins? (And by the way, Hillary doesn't wear those little flag pins either). I hope the voters can see beyond the folly of that pathetic excuse for a debate.
This debate was the most fair one yet. I liked that the responses were timed, and each were given an equal amount of time. I liked that the questions were staggered, and that they "flipped a coin" to see who would go first on opening and closings. I was impressed that both were challenged with tough questions and not allowed to wiggle out of fully answering.
ABC handled this debate in a very admirable way, and I think both candidates supporters should have been satisfied with the fairness of the debate, for a change.
Clinton was questioned about her positions on Wright and Obama's bitter comments, and she responded, owning her position, while Obama hedged on the Bosnia question, admitting his "campaign" was hammering on it, "of course," yet somehow dodging personal responsibility for what his campaign is doing? That just seemed dishonest to me. If his campaign is doing it - HE is. I'd much rather see the candidates own their positions and actions, than try and appear above the fray, when their actions don't match the perception they're trying to falsly portray.
Obama seemed a little nervous in this debate, a little tenative. He thought about his answers a lot, and it showed. It showed in that his responses were intelligent and honest.
Can intelligent and honest win an election? I hope so. I don't think we deserve to have a country if that isn't possible.
I think clinton did the best job. i felt she was the most honest with her answers. I felt that obama didn't come right out he beat around the bush to long. Like george bush. clinton was to the point. she did the better job. I don't think people will vote for obama in november if he the nominee. I think they will go for McCain I know i will after tonight.
after seeing this debate, i think the democrats need to be in office. i am quite taken by how senator obama handles himself in such a situation. i will be voting for him.
ABC coverage was very unfair to obama. Stephanipolis worked on Clinton campaign - very unprofessional conflict of interest. but they interupted obama, continually pressed him over and over on the gossipy issues instead of the meaty issues. he seemed annoyed by the three of them ganging up on him and never really shook it off. overall, I feel for obama - the press just can't seem to let go of highschool types of he-said-she-said coverage. annoying.
It was not quite a knockout-but Obama looked helpless in the ring against Hillary-I wouldn't want to see him represent the good old USA against some foreign leaders.He seemed tentative ,had no fight plan at all except lamely to keep repeating that the fusillade he was facing was"just politics."He seemed hesitant and ill prepared to take on world challenges-let alone the myriad problems US faces at home.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Can he win?
CLINTON: Yes, yes, YES WE CAN!!!
Obama 2008.
I AM SURPRISE TO SEE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE FORGET HISTORY.. HUMAN BEEN THEY ARE THE SAME.. NEVER MINE THE GENDER OR THE RACE.. SOME THE ARE CAPABLE.. TO SEE TRUE THE DARK OTHER THEY JEST WILL GO.. FOREVER IN THE DARK.. THE SENATOR OBAMA IS A YOUNG AND STRONG MAN WITH IS SPEACH.. BUT IN THE BACK OF THAT.. THEY ARE MENY LIES... IS NOT MAKE FOR BE THE PRESIDENT OF AN EMPIRE CALL AMERICA.. WHO NEED ARMONY.. AND RIGHT POLITICALLY IMMAGE.. SENATOR HILLARRY CLINTON SHE HAVE VULNERABILITY BECOUSE SHE WAS THE FIRST LADY LONG TIME.. IS DIFFICOLT FOR NAIVE AND JALOUS AMERICANS ORIENTS TO SEE HER THE NEW PRESIDENT.. BUT SHE HAVE A QUALITY SHE IS REALLY.. FIGHT FOR LONG TIME THE MEDIA.. WHO REALLY ATTACK HER IN EVERY WAY POSSIBOOL.. SENATOR MCCAIN IS JEST A OLD MAN WHO CANT BRING RIGHT LOOCK TO AMERICA.. I FELL IS THE SENATOR HILLARRY CLINTON THE BEST CHOICE FOR ONE MAJOR REASON.. SHE ANDERSTAND THE ECONOMY PROBLEMS AND THE OLD PEOPLE PROBLEMS BETTER OF THE OTHERS MY REGARDS SERGIO PREMOLI
How is it that after seven years of George Bush, most Americans have not learned anything? It baffles me. Bush conned not just Americans but the whole world. Look at the war in Iraq, the American economy and international image? And then comes another opportunity to change the course of history and rather than focusing on real issues that affect their lives, they rumage over petty rubbish! How do such trivialiteis become mainstream news? There is a stark contrast between Obama's character and Clinton's and yet, these primaries go on endlessly for what reason? What do Americans hope to achieve by battering this good man, Obama? The world is watching and what they see is RIDICULOUS!
It was pretty ridiculous. They weren't asked about the economy until almost an entire hour in. How ridiculous is that? They spent the whole first hour talking about gaffes. Like that really means something to my income.
This was the most Obama has been questioned since the start of this campaign. If he still wins then at least then he will have had this practice before he has the Republicans after him. He can use the tape of last night as a "how not to debate" training session.
I think the moderators did a great job. The first fair debate yet with rules and timing standards.
Obama and the Country of Doom
Obama spells doom for this country. Not only because of his dubious affiliations with mob members like Rezko and criminals like Auchi, but because of his lack of experience and bias education especially his bizarre religious affiliations. He is like silly putty; able to change his ideas for the public as needed so as to achieve his goal as supreme leader.
His intentions are unclear, but his affiliations are clear. Being surrounded with people like the violent Ayers, or the Hiteresque Wright, or his American hating wife Michelle, or his Kenyan half brother Islamic Jihad terrorist Abongo “Roy” Obama, or his Jewish/Israeli hating best friend Rashid Khalidi, or his close advisor Robert Malley who advocates supporting and helping the terrorist group Hamas, or Mr. McPeaks, Obama’s military advisor who open believes American Jews are the "problem." and “Christian Zionists were driving America's policy in Iraq to benefit Israel,” or Obama’s super delegate and major long term supporter Senator Meeks who openly hates and distrust all whites and gays or Obama’s most dangerous affiliation to Mr. Auchi who was Saddam Hussein right hand man and made billions in Iraq and has been a important supporter and behind the scene man throughout Obama’s rise to power.
And besides all this questionable laundry in Obama’s life, another serious question is why is Obama protected and promoted by the media? Is this also being directed from behind the scenes? The American public has been fooled before and I guess those in power know we can be fooled again. (Kennedy’s assassination, Martin Luther King’s assassination, the invasion of Iraq…).
The fact that Obama has made it this far demonstrates the collective lack of discriminative intelligence and education of this country. And nothing demonstrates this better than how well Obama plays his black card; which plays on our fear of being labeled a racist.
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