Clinton pitches petition on disputed delegates

Her "wins" in Florida and Michigan are not real. They are not to be counted per party rules and the results do not reflect the will of the people. Elections, real elections provide an opportunity for each candidate to campaign and present the case for their candidacy. This happened in neither of these states.

Although it is not fair to the people of Florida and Michigan that their leaders didn't follow the rules thus annulling their vote the election dos not reflect the will of the people because the candidates did not campaign there.

Floria and michigan no campaining pick a date and let the people vote it is their right to be counted we are all equal God bless.

And where was this righteous concern for voters rights when HRC happily signed on to the agreement that the votes from Florida and Michigan wouldn't count?

I agree - it would be completely unfair to honor the election results as they stand in either Florida or Michigan. It is completely hypocritical and self-serving of her to advocate it now after agreeing in 2007 that they would not campaign or count those states. I switched parties to vote Republican because I knew that the democratic vote would not count. (I live in Florida).

She & He started out equal in my eyes and she has gone steadily down hill by her lack of honor, honesty, and her obviously self serving and shifting viewpoints. It's clear that whoever the real Hillary is, she is not visible to us.

If all votes are considered equal and the election should conform to the will of the people then technically, shouldn't the superdelegates vote based solely on the results of the popular vote? One superdelegate vote outranks one normal person's vote. For the thousands of people who vote in elections, that is only worth maybe 100 delegate votes. A single superdelegate vote is a delegate vote. How is that equal?

This issue is not about "her 'wins' "; its about whether voters can be stripped of the right to vote, period. The Constitution said nothing about "if leaders follow the rules". Further, in this day and time, if you think that stumping in a state to present one's case is the only way to campaign, you have been on another planet. I think the entire United States public knows each candidates "case". Frankly, I don't care which candidate "wins" in Florida or Michigan; I do care that voters there have a chance to contribute to the process guaranteed by law.

I think the people in Florida and Michigan have no one to blame but ther leaders for not following the rules. (RULES ARE RULES)

Heck, why not change some more rules. It is the Clintons! I don't see why she dosn't wait to lose the election and then start a petition claiming a sexual bias. I think that is the only topic she hasn't used for her benefit. I am sure that one is coming to a news report near you.

100,000 'people' have signed that petition. There is nothing preventing the same person from 'signing' multiple times under hundreds of names. All it requires is a first and last name and zip code.
I have a major problem with any internet 'petition' that does not ensure that the information is valid.

To Pelaton....

You are mistaken. The constitution does not guarantee anyone the right to participate in the nominating process for their political party. The parties decide how it works. They made their decision. Live with it.

Let's start a nationwide online petition confirming that the Michigan and Florida votes SHOULD NOT COUNT and see how many people sign it.

This issue is dead. Belaboring it just makes her look like the desperate, dishonest politician that she is.

Why has this issue become a "Hillary" issue? If she is such a loser - make it official: let her lose in Florida and Michigan. Then we can all get over it and move on as we have done on so many controversial issues of late. Moving On seems to be the panacea for all our social, racial, and sexual biases. I agree Rules are Rules....and the first rule is outlined in the U. S. Constitution.... government by the will of the people. In this case, the will of the people in Florida and Michigan was to move their primary date. It just happens to conflict with party officials "rules" which are about 232 years too late.

Whatever it takes to get someone to vote for her. "Every voice shoud count" Yet we don't work on a popular vote in this country.

Plain and simple, If she has a fundamental problem with these 2 state being excluded, then why didn't she fight for them BEFORE they held their elections? She was just so arrogant to think that she would win by a landslide, so those votes didn't matter to her then.

The party was in agreement. The candidates agreed...but now she doesn't agree. That show a true lack of integrity to the core. Everyone knew for a fact that those votes would not count. Do we really want a cry baby in the oval office? There are no do-overs in the real world. Yet, she expects another do-over with her flawed healthcare package as well.

Least we forget, Florida has screwed up every election since 2000. They have tied up our court system and spent untold millions of TAX PAYER dollars because they can't understand the concept of an election. Simply mark the candidate of your choice on the specified election day. Why is that so hard? They have made the US into a laughing stock. I agree that there should be some form of punishment. Maybe they should be excluded from the Presidental election, so they don't screw tht one up too. Maybe that will knock some reality into their thick skulls. Maybe they'll get their act together...or maybe they'll move their Presidental election to July so they can feel "relavent".

Obama Realized He would Loose in those States so They idn't go there Dispite being Invited , and Well Aware !

This is a Under Handed - Battle Move !

Big Money can Control Him , and that's the way , They Like It !

If Really Want someone to Stand Up for Us and Get Something - Done

CLINTONS - have all the , Know How and Will.

To StopWhinining:
Key word here is "vote" - not nominate and party bosses don't supersede the constitution. So stop whining.

Their votes WILL count in general election. This is all FUD , fear tactics and spin HRC campaign is spewing. Primary nomination voting has to be by the RULES everyone agreed upon including Hillary. But trying to spin it that they are totally disenfranchised from the whole voting process is just plain WRONG!

Florida and Michigan people will get a chance to vote in General Election and their vote will COUNT!

Sorry Hillary, try another tactic next time

Win the nomination or lie trying. She mispoke. This a boby contact sport! The voters are so dumb and do know what she said yesterday.

what a joke! she agreed to the rules...now typical of the Clintons she is "fighting for the rights of Michigan and FlorIda

This is not some banana republic where the candidates get to make the rules for the election; talk about a conflict of interest. The DNC made the rules, the candidates vowed to respect them and follow them. Now HRC wants to change them.

Not even the most ardent HRC supporter can possibly believe that the results of the Michigan and Florida votes accurately reflect the will of the voters. Millions didn't vote, or changed party affiliation because they were told their votes wouldn't count. Voters who wanted to vote for Obama in Michigan could not.

This was a game of chicken between the DNC and the state legislators (who are elected to represent the voters of the states). The voters lost, unfortunately. If I was a Florida or Michigan resident I would be furious with my representative.

But it's not up to Hillary to decide what the rules are.

Why oh why can't we get candidates who possess honor and integrity?

It's interesting to see Hillary argue that it's "unfair" to not honor the votes of the people from Florida and Michigan when she's also arguing that pledged delegates should overturn the will of the people who have already voted in every other state.

And beyond that, it's interesting to contrast her current stance on this issue with her stance from before the Florida and Michigan primaries, when she herself said: "I personally did not think it made any difference whether or not my name was on the ballot. Y'know, it's clear, this election they're having is not gonna count for anything".

Hillary has become about as transparent as a clean pane of glass...

McClum,
The results do not reflect the will of the people of Florida, and I am from Florida. These people where not our leaders for the democratic party who decided to do this. So please do not speak for us!

Yeah, rules are rules, as long as those rules benefit the candidate you support. Go back to the playground, you whining Obama-ites. Even the head honcho of the DNC is saying he's going to seat Florida now, and probably Michigan too. You can't count out two huge states, one a major battleground state, without dire political consequences in November.

** Pelaton ** - picking a nominee has nothing to do with the constitution... get over it. No one can be denied a VOTE in November for the president... but the name that has "DNC" and "RNC" attached to it gets decided based on those parties. Just like the Green party... did we get to VOTE for who they picked? Does that upset you too? Of course not. The DNC could've decided last year to attach all the candidates names to a bunch of frogs and have a race to determine the nominee... and that would be well within the bounds of anything the Constitution has to say about it. There is no LAW that says we get to pick the nominees, it's up to the parties to figure that out. And FL and MI chose to break the rules.

http://gawker.com/367705/the-logic-of-hillary-clintons-campaign-in-five-skits

Pelaton's reasoning makes sense. Pelaton's focus on the voters, not the candidates is the right focus.

Since when are rules designed to implement our most fundamental democratic Principle more important than the Principle the rules are made to implement?

No matter how much Obama supporters want their candidate to win, their mischaracterization of Clinton and self-serving analysis are not persuasive.

Florida and Michigan voters will have their votes counted if the Democratic Nominee is chosen in keeping with the spirit of democracy. If the Nominee is not chosen democratically, then I imagine protestors’ voices will be heard.

1. Michigan and Florida, "We want to shoot ourselves in the foot!"

2. Clinton, Obama, Dean, and the DNC, "If you do that, you'll shoot yourselves in the foot!"

3. Michigan and Florida, "Yep, we are going to shoot ourselves in the foot!"

4. Clinton, Obama, Dean, and the DNC, "Shooting yourself in the foot will hurt. You will lose all your little piggy delegates!"

5. Michigan and Florida, "Bang!"

6. Clinton, "Ouch! It's Obama's fault!"

As a Floridian I am unhappy! I feel the Political Powers of Florida have SCREWED us over again…..The Democratic Chairman, Howey Dean, is and has let them get away with it again!! Mr.Dean knew at the time the rules were being established for the date, Florida state was under a strict Republican control. He knew the DNC would not have to answer for it, Because as the date was settled the Previous Florida Politicians were exiting Office, (Jeb Bush) as a New Group was coming in and being established….with Floridians and Mr. Dean KNOWING this, you would think Mr. Dean would want to do the right thing…..I Think he is working for the Republican’s under the guise of a Democrat . Does this Man have any kind of moral Conscious? …. The way the DNC is acting you would think they moved the date up a MONTH !!…. If the actual Florida citizens Knew about the Date Setting at the time it was taking place, they would have put their foot down and Not have tolerated the republicans being sneaky and the moving the Date. Crap , they only Moved it up about 6 days !! HOW ABOUT IF IT HAPPENED IN YOUR STATE AND YOU HAD NO CONTROL OVER IT
Type your comment here...

To StopWhinning, hey if you don't want to face reality, then stop whinning. Florida & Michigan are precious votes too. In every rule there is an exception. Nobody owns the DNC but the people. Look at the RNC they were able to give exception to the rule, half it. Some wants the process to stop but to be sure, when the countings are done no one had the magic number. Think about it 2024 is the magic number. Do you think one can attain it without the summation of the 50 states divide by two. If DNC insists on not to include these two, they should also reduce the quota, lower the 2024. So Mr/Ms StopWhinning get real. I agree with Pelaton's view.

I signed that petition today because it articulated exactly what I have been thinking. How can we, as the Democratic Party, scream so about citizen's votes not being counted in recent infamous general elections in Florida and in Ohio. I saw exactly what happened on the ground in Ohio because I was a Kerry poll worker. It was just atrocious to experience, and it still makes me cringe to think of it. Roll forward to 2008. Why in the world did the Democratic Party say Michigan or Florida's votes would not count? What difference did it make? The party leadership boxed itself into a corner. Now it matters. And now it looks like they are disenfranchising millions of voters. And this is what is going to kill us in November: In Florida, and in Michigan, people are going to be so mad at the Democrat s that they won't vote for teh Demo. presidential or congressional candidates.

I was one of those who sign the online petition. I am black and white and proud. If you have a problem with online petition, I will be be willing to mail it in. I think others will be willing to mail it also. W had had brown, green, yellow men who had became president. I mean 43 of them. 43 men has been giving the opportunity in this country to become presidents. We have a very qualified woman to make history at this time and all Americans are throwing this away. Obama is young. He can come back in 8 years and I will vote for him. Clinton will be too old to be president.

Why is the truth so hurtful?
Why can we not state his full name: Obama Hussein Barrack?
Why does Obama make every remark to be a racist slur?
Why is Obama trying to hide his Muslim heritage?
Why are the large majority of blacks voting for him?
Why does Obama lie about his birth date?
Why does Obama lie is his own book?
Why does the non-thinking American not care about all Obama Hussein Barrack, lies?
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Simple answer: They want a black president, and will do any thing to get one.
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Since when can a hate monger be a uniter?

Why is the truth so hurtful?
Why can we not state his full name: Obama Hussein Barrack?
Why does Obama make every remark to be a racist slur?
Why is Obama trying to hide his Muslim heritage?
Why are the large majority of blacks voting for him?
Why does Obama lie about his birth date?
Why does Obama lie is his own book?
Why does the non-thinking American not care about all Obama Hussein Barrack, lies?
-
Simple answer: They want a black president, and will do any thing to get one.
-
Since when can a hate monger be a uniter?

The DNC really mismanaged this fiasco with the states of Michigan and Florida.
When you think about it- because they changed the date of their primary- they were penalized to this extent- that their votes would not count. Is this Democracy? Other states- like South Carolina- moved their dates and were not penalized.
And of course the candidates had to agree with the DNC and sign an agreement not to campaign there--because if they didn't- then this would have cost them support in Iowa and New Hampshire and both campaigns thought that it would most probably be over by Super Tuesday- so it wouldn't come into play.
The winner would "seat" the delegates from Florida and Michigan at the convention and that would be that. No one dreamed it would be tied at this late stage.

I doubt that the Dems can win the election without taking Florida and/or Ohio and/or Michigan. What a mess. It is ridiculous and ironic with the appropriate protests in 2000 from the Dem leadership about not disenfranching voters in Florida, and then the Dem leadership does essentially the same thing in 2008. It is as if they forgot completely about the Electoral College!

The Democratic Party is running out of feet to shoot themselves in.

Layne: Wrong!! Yes, we have "played by rules before" like sheep. We've had
"rules" declaring that (1 women can't vote(overturned in 1920), indians can't vote (overturned in 1948 , and negroes can't vote (overturned in 1965). Then there was the rule about poll tax overuled by the 24th amendment 1964). ...and the list goes on and on including restrictions to vote based on education, literacy, property ownership, blah, blah, blah. All designed to manipulate the vote.....regardless of when in the process the voting took place. And, guess what??? these "rules" were declared unconstitutional. What is pitiful is that we as a people had to be forced to change -mercifully - by rulings based on an interpretation of the United States Constitution. This current "snit" will also be resolved thusly. You know why? Because - to paraphrase - its the vote, stupid. . Not only will I "get over it", but we all will ---just like we have gotten over these past discretions. - some sooner than others.

FL and MI should NOT be seated. These states showed blatant disregard for the RULES set by the DNC in an effort to show America that they are “important” states. Likewise, the DNC should show blatant disregard for their illegal primaries. Important states should set an example by following the rules.

By voting in the illegal primaries, the voters broke the rules too. Had they refused to vote, then maybe there would be some argument for a re-vote. As it is, a re-vote sponsored by associates of one of the candidates, run by a private company, could hardly be trusted. The illegal primary is not accurate, because some voters didn't vote, and nobody campaigned, and what's her face was a known entity.

If the people of FL and MI, who are so desperate to be heard, don't like it, they should take it up with their own state governments, not the DNC. The DNC didn’t violate any rules. Why the hell should they be responsible for this? And don’t blame it on your Republican state governments, either. You guys voted ‘em in, so it’s your own problem to deal with in-state.

Hillary doesn’t care about the FL and MI voters…she only cares about their votes and delegates. She was all in favor of not counting them or hearing their voices months ago when she thought she didn’t need them.

LAYNE: My apologies. My latest posting regarding rules that go against the constitution was meant for Mike from FL. I misspoke : ) or misread the posting
origin. I have no disagreements with you.

Barack Obama did the right thing and pulled his name off the ballot in Michigan. That means any votes for Hillary Clinton are not legitimate votes and cannot be counted without disenfranchising all those who would have voted for Obama had he been running. Likewise, Obama did not campaign in Florida so that all votes for Hillary Clinton are not legitimate votes for her because some of them would have gone for him.

The fairest solution would be to divide the votes 50-50 so that each candidate got half of the votes cast. That would have to be done well before the convention after canvassing the states' respective Democratic committees. They could then present this to the Credentials Committee at the convention in Denver.

Obama should NOT be punished for obeying the rules and it is essential for the November balloting that Florida and Michigan be included in the total. She can scream bloody murder but she broke the rules. She knew the rules. Florida knew the rules. She did not do the right hting.

If the truth be known, Hillary needs to be more worried about the outcome of the race in PA.

The votes in Floroda and Michigan, will matter even less, if she cannot show well in PA.