No go for do-over in Michigan

Michigan & Florida citizens voted and their votes should be counted. When citizens line up to excercise their right and duty to voice their opinion, their voices should be heard! That's the democratic way! Senator Obama requested his name be removed and didn not campaign himself in Florida..his choice.

SEAT THE DELEGATES AND COUNT THEIR VOTES!

Mary Howard, you're wrong. Michigan chose to break the rules and knew before the vote took place that their votes would not count. It's the Michigan Demecratic group that is at fault and unfortunately the people of Michigan are the ones that will be effected.

The ridiculous thing about this was, behind the scenes, Obama's campaign has done everything they can to stop these votes - while publicly saying they weren't opposed to them. Considering that he was 99.9% sure to win the primary anyway, that's pretty low of him to do. It could cost him the general election, if enough dems in those two states (michigan and florida) stay home - and I think many will.

Actually, it wasn't "his choice." It was an agreement that he was asked to make.

Hillary Clinton also agreed. But she, being a Clinton, has little regard for her word.

She agreed not to campaign in Florida. Then she went there the day before the primary and had a big photo opportunity at the airport, saying "It's great to be here in Florida!" Get it? See, we weren't "campaigning" in Florida -- we were just there! Reminds me of "depends on what the meaning if "is" is."

Now she says she wants "every vote to count," to cynically appeal to some sense of outrage. She didn't even have a campaign strategy or organization in the states that follow Super Tuesday, because she thought she would have the nomination wrapped up by then! But now every vote is sacred. Okay, Hillary.

The whole family -- each of them -- is as lurid and distateful as can be imagined. Flannery O'Connor herself couldn't have made these people up. Their endless self-absorption, deception and conniving are so thoroughgoing, it is almost hard to continue to take offense.

typical garbage.... agree to one set of rules and then they change the rules after the fact....

Really ? "Citizens have voted so let their votes count .."
What about rules - we all have to abide by rules. If THAT is not agreed upon by everyone then there can be no further discussion.
This is a slippery slope: If MI and FL Delegates ARE seated, then the DNC will have lost its authority. What about 4 years from now when 5 or maybe 20 states decided that they do not care about the DNC and schedule dates themselves? And yes - if the DNC gives in now, precedence will be set - you cannot go back and argue that in 2012 things will be different..
My 2 cents!

If the two states insisted on coming up with their own rules, then they should pay the price. That's why sporting events have refs and umps...

This is the fundamental problem with Clinton supporters; they feel the rules don't apply to Hillary.

Michigan and Florida chose to break the rules of the Party for their own self-aggrandizement and deserve the punishment they knew was forthcoming.

Much as the Hillary supporters try to portray this as the noble democratic candidate simply seeking to let the people choose, the truth is she has used this campaign as an opportunity to praise the old Republican who is committed to war without end and to further financial devastation of the citizens. There's nothing noble about what Hillary Clinton has done.

To all the Democrats who say they will vote Republican, if their preferred candidate is not nominated I ask this: Are the PRINCIPALS to which you live by, vote by, and teach to your children sold SO cheaply? Can your convictions as to the direction this country should go, moving forward, be purchased for so little?

If you answered yes to either question; go. You are not the type to move this country forward anyway. You are products of identity politics, with little, if any principals to begin with.
nominee.

I think GPO is dead right. The fact that Hillary broke the rules, ... the rules that she'd agreed to, that were set out by her own party leadership ... should not benefit her at all. If the voters are outraged, let them be outraged at her or at their own state leadership for trying to manipulate the process by moving their primary up.

OBAMA 08

The State Democratic Parties of Florida and Michigan can thank themselves when we've got a Republican in the White House. I understand the logical argument that states want to figure into the Primary process more, but playing chicken with your own party heads has hurt the entire organization. And Obama can't come out and say "Hey, you want to blame someone? Blame your local Democratic party or yourselves for voting when it was publicly known the votes wouldn't count." But what does it matter if he did? I'd rather he did, because Dems need a dose of reality, let got of the conspiracy theories.

Either way, the people in Michigan and Florida (and the Clinton supporters) are going to hold it against either their Local or National party chairs - and turn away from the party when it counts.

I am astounded at the Democrats ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Actually OBama ran adds in Florida. (it was part of a regional ad & Florida was included. Hillary had the right to stop off in Florida in order to protect her political rights there. this is beside the point. The Republican led legislature voted to move the primary up. The DNC was wrong to place the blame on the Democratic party & tell the voters of Florida that their votes would not be counted. Only the Legislature could make the changes necessary to appease the DNC, and as they are a Republican Majority, why would they? It is in their best interest if the DNC is stupid enouh to discount the will of the people in Florida. The popular vote was strongly in favor of Clinton, over every other candidate & outnumbered several republican candidates combined. If the DNC does not get this worked out & Obamarefuses to allow the vote to stand as it was, then we'll be looking at at least 4 more years of Bush Policy & the Democratic PArty will be severely damaged in not only Florida but Michigan as well. This will be Obama's fault as much as the DNC's

This is so easy to figure out, it isn't even funny.

Step 1 - There HAS to be a punitive reduction of the total number of delegates that Michigan gets to send to Denver. Currently they get to send Zero, which is unacceptable to anybody, even Obama. Michigan's Hillary supporters want 100% of the delegates to be seated in Denver as if no rules had been violated at all. There has to be some punishment for Michigan, or the Democratic Party will lose all control over the states. The ensuing war to move forward primaries will have us all voting and unwrapping Christmas presents back to back. The answer is to cut the number of delegates sent to Denver in half. This is the same as what the the Republicans are doing, so nobody can accuse the Democrats of treating their voters any worse than the Republicans are treating theirs.

That means Michigan gets to send 80 delegates.

Step 2 - How to assign these 80 delegates? Clinton wants the delegates to be assigned in proportion to exactly how they voted, even though Obama wasn't on the ballot. Obama wants them distributed 50-50 to each candidate. So give them both half of what they want. Of the delegates left, assign half proportionally according to the vote results. Assign the other half at a 50-50 ratio in acknowledgment that the first vote wasn't entirely valid without Obama on the ballot.

40 delegates assigned per the vote=
22 Clinton 16 Obama 2 Kucinich

40 delegates assigned at 50/50=
20 Clinton 20 Obama

The Michigan delegates going to Denver are:
42 Clinton Delegates
36 Obama Delegates
2 Kucinich Delegates

Done.

Yes, Michigan and Florida votes should count, at the next election to throw out the morons who voted to break the rules!!

The voters of Michigan and Florida should not be disenfranchised. The voters of Michigan and Florida did not choose to break the rules, the politicians did. I know it served Obama's purpose to stand in the way of a revote in Michigan, but if anyone didn't know it before, it proves without a shadow of a doubt that he is no candidate of change; his is a candidacy of the Bush/Rove brand. Obama should withdraw from this election and join the Republic Party. Maybe they will appreciate his cutthroat tactics.

You Obama supporters need to do a little research before you make false assertions. Neither Obama nor Hillary agreed that the votes or delegates wouldn't count. In the agreement they signed, which can be found on the DNC website, they merely agreed not to "campaign or participate" in the primaries. It was under the DNC rules that the delegates wouldn't count. To you Obama fans out there who value "rules" more than the will of the people, maybe you are in the wrong party.

Once upon a time long, long, ago there were these rules: that we all (almost all) followed blindly: women, indians, and negroes couldn't vote. There was also another rule designed to manipulate voting - the poll tax. Aren't we all more satisfied today since those were deemed unconstitutional? Those rules were compared to the U. S. Constitution and failed to measure up; but, we are not all living happily ever after because we have more rules that we are being forced to follow blindly - and one of those is that people of a state cannot decide to move their primary. Will it - or should it be deemed unconstitutional? I think so. Framers of the Constitution were brilliant and tried to cover everything, but they could not in their wildest imagination foresee what party officials would do to the right to vote. Call it nominating process, call it party rules, call what you will. To paraphrase: its the vote, stupid.

Florida and Michigan broke the rules. Let them live with it. Their anger should be directed at their own elected politicians. Blaming the DNC is typical of Clintonites.
If the rules are to be followed, neither state should have any delegates seated. A fifty-fifty split of delegates is actually the same as not being seated at all.

As is! This is the only right thing to do! Why were two other states allowed to break the rules with no penalty? Why do you think that Dr. Coward Dean targeted Florida and Michigan. The elections were held and are recorded as a accurate voice and will of the people of Florida and Michigan. Only Obama and the DNC want to use voter suppression rules and tactics to stop these citizens from being Americans who only as to be a part of the process in the selection of the next President of the United States who is suppose to be the leader of all FIFTY states not FORTY EIGHT!.

Yep. Those rules are what are important. Never let it be said that we let a little thing like the United States Constitution get in the way of rules....unless, of course, we are forced by law to do so. You can slice/dice and spin it anyway you please, saying that the Constitution doesn't say anything about "the nominating process", but the truth is that Founding Fathers tried to cover everything but in their infinite wisdom never dreamed the ways we could manipulate the system with rules and screw it up.

Rules of Bygone days that were dutifully obeyed and mercifully overturned:

Women weren't allowed to vote
Indians were not citizens and could not vote
Negroes were not allowed to vote

Oh yes. Dont foret the poll tax.

Without Michigan and Florida, no democrat will win the general election. This is most probable. It's a common sense against unwise rules. Stick to them and lose ten more elections. Not all rules are equal. There are fundamental and gimmicks. Changing the dates is gimmick, not essential, therefore, repairable.
It's a big mistake to put Howard Dean at the helm of the DNC and it will cost a winnable election. All I can say that John McCain is the luckiest Republican to win a losing election. He will win because the democrats have already lost with their illogical rules.
Howard Dean should be fired now!

I like Pablo B's plan better than anything else that has been suggested. However, it seems to me that punishing the voters in Florida and Michigan for what their party leaders did is about as fair as punishing the citizens of New York for Eliot Spitzer's playing around. An ideal solution (still doable if all of the people involved would come to their senses:

(1) Conduct do-overs of some sort.

(2) Impose some sort of meaningful discipline on the individuals responsible for this mess (those who have superdelgate status could have it revoked; all of them could be barred from representing their states as elected delegates.

Jim Scott

If Fl, and Mi, do not count then why does the rest of world count. Are some sates better than others. We are all in this together I said ALL not just some I do not care who do what to who or when we are all part of the UNITED STATES. FREEDOM does any one understand that word FREEDOM. Give Hillary what she has the right to Fl, and Mi. I must say look at Pa. Hillary stayed and said thank you and Obama he took off for Ind well I lost to much heat in the kitchen time to run. If you run from this how could he ever take the pressure and life in the white house. HE COULD NOT.