Billionaires differ on Obama

"A huge spending spree".... Trillion dollar Iraq war is the biggest spending spree in my lifetime. Sorry Mr. Icahn: I am not worried about people making $200,000/year paying more in taxes. It's their war - it's time to pay the piper.

I am surprised that any Billionaire would endorse Obama.

Warren Buffett, the billionaire with a heart, has far more credibility and judgment than Carl Icahn, who doesn't seem to understand that Obama believes you can't do anything unless you pay as you go with the needed funds in hand, gained from taxing people who have gotten the most from our economy and are well off by any meaure and by inevitably having to cut some spending programs as well.

I'll go with Obama, rather than the wrecked economy that Icahn decribes, which actually already exists at the moment. (Inflation? Look at the price of gasoline, milk, bread, even seeds to grow vegetables.)

Give us some cred for intelligence!

That's right, because the dollar is very strong now and there's no inflation currently.

I have a pretty good understanding of economics, but I fail to see how letting a tax cut for people making over $200k would lead to a loss of confidence in the dollar. If I made over $200k a year, I would gladly pay more taxes than people with less income. There are things to be done in this country other than hoarding one's wealth. Carl Icahn sounds more Republican than Democrat, why is he even paying attention to the Democratic nominee?

"You would have a loss of confidence in the dollar,'' Hmmm.... has he noticed the very substantial devaluation of the dollar during the Bush presidency?

The Buffett/Ichan comments on Obama were too short and general to be useful to anyone.

Icahn sounds like a fool. "He would probably go on a spending spree," what evidence is there for that? Secondly, letting the tax cuts on on incomes over $200,000 expire wouldn't sink the dollar, it would strengthen it due to increased confidence in being able to pay down the national debt and stop running deficits. Certainly job #1 for Obama on the economy should be to balance the budget, which is exactly what Obama has campaigned on doing. Icahn's comments are nothing but uninformed knee-jerk nonsense.

Unfortunately, I think Wall Street likes the war. that's probably what Icahn is scared of.... Ending the war. Greedy bastards.

Maybe BO could just call Icahn for advise when he gets into office. I'm sure that the economy would run perfectly then.

Buffett is one of the very few honest Billionaires in America. what Icahn was REALLY saying is: I don't think Obama really understands MY economics. Obama would probably go on a huge spending spree, unlike our ReBorglican brethren of the past 8 years.
will someone please rescue poor Icahn, because he might have to start paying taxes now. LOL Pathetic "Patriot" he is.

Mr Icahn, give out some of your billions to charity, then you can talk all the trash you want. While we are at this, do you have any defense contracts? and how much money did you make from the market on september 12th 01?

Big Business, Big Oil, Big Billionaires. Great, as long as we have their opinions then we don't need the ignorant voters....

does dubya understand economics ? do we really think it's even necessary for the president to truly understand the deep science behind economics as long as he has friends (cabinet members) who do ? Obama went to Harvard. He must know some people who can help him out on economic policy...

So, if we are successful, make something of ourselves, and thus make more money by getting somewhere with our careers, we should pay more than those who didn't?

And, who says that it is the rich people's war anyway? I seem to of missed the news articles backing that up.

Even though I disagree w/ the war, I feel that Barack's plan for the economy would drive this country into more trama. He wants to be a welfare state giving too much money to social programs. Where will this money come from - higher taxes for the American people. We are already paying too much. It will be like living under Jimmy Carter all over again - He was the worst president.

Your not worried about people making $200,000 a year? They are the ones that hire you. Have you ever received a job from a poor person ? Why is it okay to punish the rich just becuase they have earned their money ?

"Icahn said..." Who? I've never even heard of this guy.

LM is right. Icahn is a dolt. It is the Republicans who have been on a "spending spree." If you are going to spend a trillion dollars then you should have the spine to raise the money. It is time for some fiscal responsibility in the White House. Obama will bring sanity back. Buffett can see it, why can't Icahn?

Ok - I know who Warren Buffet is but who the Hell is this Icahn dude and why the Hell should anyone listen to him? He seems to be the one that has a loose grip not only on economics but also the whole of society in America right now.

Hmm... Republicans who fret about a Democrat "wrecking the economy".

Have they bought a gallon of gas lately? Had to refinance a house? Gone through a supermarket checkout line with a cart-full of groceries?

The current administration has weakened the dollar, put our children in debt, increased terrorism, put us all in harm's way economically, politically and from a national security perspective.

I think Democrats are often corrupt and often semi-competent, but any Democrat would be better than the "worst President ever" and his hug-buddy McCain.

folks, just try and remember 9-11.

lets all get together with their likes and tell them that killing innocent Americans with airplanes and such is not a nice thing to do. We are all brothers on this big ball and we should jut kiss and make up.

lets all confine ourselves to our shores and build big fences north and south.

get real folks, the war in Irag is nothing compared if we run and hide like a ltttle mouse.

get a life you Democrats and just wake up. Maybe you are too young to remember 9-11.

Sad day in America where love of country is for us older folks.

shame on you mr.Icahn.you are suggesting biggest spending spree if obama is the winner,it is a bull we have allready spending spree in this adm.economics 101
mr.so put your garbege theory for your self and your republican party.this time is different.change is caming.go obama,viva obama.......

I agree with LM, you can't have a more useless spending spree than the last few years. Besides, Obama had good enough advisors to nix the suspended gas tax craze touted by the other candidates. He also took a very moderate approach to health insurance. He's already outdone both opponents on his economics 101. Furthermore, McCain? Economics? Probably has some pennies buried under his mattress.

Wow Carl, have you not noticed that the dollar is hovering at an all time low? And as for inflation, surely the hedonics meisters can come up with more ways to hide it from us.

Thank you LM. Billionaire Carl Icahn is only thinking of his investment funds and hedge funds. Let us remind him what Abraham Lincoln said, "You cannot fool all the people all the time"!

indeed. people like mr icahn would make the u.s. pass on this unique opportunity to have a new and visonary leader, restore the american image in the world, and stop living a life of dreams based on irresponsible over-spending. does mr icahn understand economics? or simply grandiose business based on insensitive greed.

Icahn apparently has his eyes open, in contrast to those Obama followers who refuse to see his weaknesses and inexperience but love his well-written speeches and his charm....qualities that do not a president make.

And who exactly does this Icahn support, Hillary? Yeah, that gas tax holiday idea really shows she has a handle on economics.

//sarcasm

Its their war? what planet are you living on LM?

How is it people who make more than $200,000 a year's war?

Has Carl Icahn has been in a coma the last 7 years? The Republicans and George W Bush have spent this country into debt with no plans to pay for anything except pass the bill to the unborn. Obviously Carl Icahn no longer has a grip on reality.

Icahn obviously has issues with the democrats versus tax breaks for the rich. If he thinks the current administration hasn't gone on a huge spending spree, he should be mentally evaluated to check his sanity. The spending needs to be reduced and put in the right places. Icahn isn't talking business, he's talking politics.

One of the eighties takeover pirates whining that the tide is shifting under him. You can't control the ocean, dude. Get your head around it.

Yes, we Icahn? :)
And why would Icahn be pro-Obama? - His wealth was created in oil, his main current holdings include tobacco and pharmaceutical companies... need we say me? :)))

What an amazing coincidence -- Mr. Icahn, a heavy oil industry investor -- doesn't like the person who wants to end the war in Iraq and try to change our approach to energy.

Hey, I know -- let's figure out a way to re-elect George W. Bush and make Carl Icahn the Energy Secretary. As a follow-up, we can bring Genghis Kahn back to life and make him head of Health and Human Services. :D

I guess Carl Icahn does not feel that he has enough money yet. Maybe he is invested in Haliburton?

to LM - "it's their war"? what a ridiculous thing to say. Whatever you feel about the war, as Americans, it's a problem for all of us. Why is it that people who take more risks and happen to be rewarded for their work "owe" the government so much more of their income? Do you realize that small business owners quite often are in this "wealthy" category, but actually get to take home no where near that much profit? It used to be that making a legacy to leave to you family was a good thing, not something that was fair game for the government to confiscate.

Let them eat cake!

His comments belie his fear that he will not be able to continue to build on his astronimcal wealth and make everyone else poorer as fast has he has been doing it during Bush. It is obvious he is counting on McCain to continue the same Bush policies that have led to the greatest concentration of wealth in the fewest individuals since just before the great depression.

You want more of the same, vote McCain.

My vote is for Senator Obama.

AMEN to LM's post! How about a spending spree for health care, education, etc. using the $!2 BILLION a month being squandered in Iraq?.

Ditto.

Amen, LM.

What's to wreck?

People making $200,000 a year are not rich nor is the Iraq war their choice. In California with the high cost of living $200,000 a year is upper middle class which is a long way from rich. I think the Tax policies should go after people like Ted Kennedy whose off shore fortune his father left him he "borrows" against avoiding any tax liability. While he is avoiding taxes he votes for higher taxes for the rest of us! We don't have a revenue problem we have a spending issue and I include the Iraq War in that equation. The runaway spending in Washington is completely out of control and we need to find a way to place limits on government spending or we will go bankrupt. You know things are bad when the Chinese feel sorry for us and the mess we are now in.

Carl Icahn is interested in one thing - Carl Icahn. Whoever gets elected maybe they'll put the country ahead of their own short term goals.

I don't think Obama understands economics or taxation (at least not based upon his own statements), nor does he understand people or discrimination. I'm very concerned about his lack of judgement when it comes to his words. He is simply not presidential material.

Icahn was in New York? and who is the senator of New York? stop fooling the public! you cant Imagine United States without lobbists to shove more dollars on you!. How can Obama go on "huge spending spree" without thinking about the future of this Nation? How much have the Government spent on Iraq?. Do you know how much is our National debt? well, here we go, its 9,381,965,059,967.47 and dont forget the debt has been growing by 1.58 billion per day since september- 28 -2007. So, cut the crap Bush has been on a spending spree you never raised a finger. By the way Obama will reduce the National debt dramatically.

The Carl Icahn's of the material world (the world they are systematically destroying) need to journey someplace other than to their caves of greed and power and try to understand there is an other world of "the true, the good, and the beautiful" It is the place we all need to visit....SOON.

Bob Manley

Carl Icahn has found it would be difficult to "manipulate","influence", or "corrupt" a Obama Presidency. Don't be panic, Carl Icahn, You can run to China (do not forget to take the 3 Clintons with you) to trade, to deal, to exercise your power with them, just leave us alone, thank you.

...and the last 8 years was thrift spending????

"You would have a loss of confidence in the dollar,''

HUH??? How can you possibly have lower confidence in the Dollar than what Bush and the republican controled (19 out of last 20 years) has given us.

Of course he would say this, he is one of the richest men in the world and as an investor, one of the most prominent beneficiaries of the cap gains tax cuts.

Good thing the US went more into debt to give this guy more BILLIONS. While average americans struggle with the cost of a gallon of milk, not to mention gas.

Funny if this is even a topic of news - Do I care who the billionaires endorse? It's a resounding NO. No disrespect meant, but my concerns and life concerns differ so much with the billionaires that it's like someone from China telling me they prefer one candidate over another. Do I care about that? Again, a big NO.

The main media really is running out of news stories.

Warren Buffett uses a specific system to look at companies he wishes to acquire and investments he wishes to make. The system is comprised of determining the durable competitive advantage of a company, including the width of the "moat" protecting the castle. He sees something in Obama worth investing in. I trust his judgment much more than any of the pundits or anyone who comes out of Washington or the news media. Carl Icahn doesn't have half the smarts of Warren Buffett and is obviously delusionally wrapped up in the "big spending liberals" ideology passed on by such luminaries as Rupert Murdoch, Rush Limbaugh and Karl Rove. Mr Icahn, I assume you are aware of the record spending, secrecy and anti-American behavior of this administration. Thank you for letting us all know that you blindly support the continuation of this regime and it's policies. Furthermore, now that you are on record using words to describe Obama's upcoming presidency like "terrible", the media will be able to rub your nose in that prediction while America spends the next 8 years healing it's wounds and restoring it's integrity. Again, Buffett will prove why he, and not Icahn, is the best investor to ever live by again making a shrewd decision that he can proudly stand by. I'm sure that for Mr. Icahn this will produce yet another situation where he is left scratching his head wondering why Buffett is right so often. I think Mr. Icahn would be well-served to support Obama because he is the only one of the two who will probably reject the idea of sending Mr. Icahn's cohorts--Bush and his cronies--up on war crimes charges in the interest of moving on. I don't think Senator Clinton will be so forgiving. Goodbye Republicans! Don't let the tax-break lapse hit you in the conscience on your way out!

I second that, LM! Hear! Hear!

I agree LM, well put...

To say that this war is the responsibility of everyone who makes over $200,000/year is naive. I agree with you that the Iraq War is a big waste of tax payer money and has subsequently lined the pockets of a handful of powerful people, but let's put the blame where it belongs -- on Bush and his minions, not on Americans who happen to make more than 'X' dollars in a year.

Icahn is an idiot, he's tied to the republican corruption machine, and has made billions as a result. Of course he's not going to like Obama. Warren B., on the other hand is extremely inteligent, and made his Billions with his keen acumen, not sleeping with Bush & Co.

amazing how well that koolaid tastes.
the 200k+ crowd passes their costs on bunkie. When Grandmaw is dumpsterdiving for diner remeber that "tme rich people tax"

For a Billionaire to make such remarks as Mr Icahn...is blunt ignorance...i dont know what part of the planet he lives on....but the last 8 years have been the most "expensive spending spree" in the history of this nation.I need not say more.

you're and idiot. Just because you make over $200 thousand a year doesn't mean its "your war".

"Yes, Virgina, there is a class was and ordinary people are losing it." - Bill Moyers

Buffet needs brain surgery.

oboma will spend a trillion on useless people-pleasing "make everyone like me" stuff on top of the trillion he is forced to spend on the war since he cant pull out the troops. Thats why he would be sucky as a president - his economic as well as his foreign policy is naive.

Have anyone seens the video on Tube re how Obama would almost get rid of the military and weapons, our defense? Sounds like what the Osama would love.

To "LM"...I couldn't agree more! Ditto! Actually, the "negative points" about the past eight (8) years could go on and on and on.....
Sg

"...loss of confidence in the dollar"...? How could he lose something that doesn't exist? Let me guess, Icahn voted for Bush.

As badly as Bush has damaged the dollar, nothing Obama can do could possibly make it worse. Showing an iota of fiscal responsibility- like ending irresponsible tax cuts and seriously tackling the deficit and debt- can only strengthen the dollar. Try looking beyond your own wallet, Icahn. My generation was proud to begin paying down the debt until Bush screwed it up.

seriously

Mr. Icahn is not in touch with reality...

This country need change. I think we have to start to rethink our ways. The problem is not that he cannot handle the economy; most people who are not conformable with someone from another race to lead are giving stupid and naive excuses. This guy was the president of Harvard law review, he is so smart with numbers that Hillary could not understand and totally confused. Obama is mixed meaning he got the best of both races. He got leadership skills.

It's no surprise that Mr. Corporate does not like Obama who will fight for the little people. That the press give Icahn's garbage some real estate - now, that is a surprise.

I absolutly agree, keep exploting shady trade deals, from Bad policy. Of course the super wealthy without consience will start screaming, it directly affects there wealth. I think that is simple logic. Absolutly most of the super wealthy will vote for McCain, that is easy logic also. Time to poney up mr 17% tax bracket.

Amen to you LM.

Excuse me but both Mc Cain and Clinton have economic woes due to mismanagement of their campaigns. McCain lost nearly all of his money and his staff before the campaign even got off the ground. Clinton is in the hole 20-30 million even after loaning herself 11. If they can't deal with the millions in their elections, how can they be trusted to manage billions? Obama is ahead financially and has no debt. I would say that is a good starting indicator of sound money management.

It's Billionaires like Icahn that create such a mess and then expect the poor to clean up after him. What he is really trying to say is that he wouldn't care who ran for presidential office as long he/she is not Black. That's what he wanted say. The ideal of Obama going on a spending spree with American currency is absurd statement for Icahn to make. It depics one's character of saying that Obama is a typical AA and he would spend american dollars trival, material possession instead of helping our economy.

I agree. Be prepared for high interest rates and inflation.

"You would have a loss of confidence in the dollar..."

Ummm; most of the world has lost confidence in the dollar, and is preferring the Euro. But then again if Carl Ichan was that brilliant he would not have financed his investments with Michael Milkin junk bonds which left him poorer than he was.

Seriously? Can anyone really spend more than George W Bush has in the last 8 years on nothing?

$750 BILLION a year on NOTHING. When it's all said and done, Iraq will have a government that may be more radical than the one we destroyed.

When we're out of Iraq, Obama can spend $500 BILLION on anything he wants and still save the taxpayers money. I voted for Bush twice, but I won't make that mistake a third time in McCain.

UI

Why should +200k wage earners get a break? You should pay the same taxes as anyone else. Loss of confidence in the dollar is occurring because of the ridiculous war on terror. Terrorism is everywhere and always will be. You have to manage it - short term by monitoring within your borders and abroad, long term by building a global community and strong relationships with foreign nations. Not by ignoring the global community, invading countries and wasting a trillion dollars.

Icahn just senses that a larger tax bill is heading his way under the next president. GOOD. You SHOULD pay it and then be thankful that you were able to make your wealth within this great nation in the first place. I suggest you donate the same again to a charity that provides aid to the worlds very poor and are doing the only real work to reduce the threat of future terrorism.

Obama is just talk... Actions speak louder, we do not Need another Jimmy Carter.

And you think George Bush understands Economics? That's a laugh! Our country has never been more in debt! We've lost respect globally and the dollar is at the lowest it has been in decades!

Taking the economic impact of an Obama presidency off of the table, the guy is a terrible leader. He is all for "change" but what if it is a change for the worse?? Which I believe it will be. He has no real-world experience at running anything. So we give him the keys to the country to run it into the ground? Note: I am not questioning his sincerity, I am questioning his ability.

For Mr. Icahn to be worried about Mr. Obama spending too much, I'm stunned and flabberghasted. You mean to tell me he prefers more than a billion dollars a day to be spent on a war in Iraq vs. investing in a solution to war that doesn't require ammunition, or the education of our country's youth, or investing in a progressive transportation infrastructure that will help Americans become less dependent on oil, or helping to reduce health care and insurance costs, or, or, or...don't make me go on! Is it me, or is Icahn's statement woefully irresponsible for a billionnaire?

It does not matter whose war it is, if Obama were to the President, he will inherit the war and I totally agree with Mr Icahn, Obama does not seem to know about economics and at the critical time, his presidency is going to be a disaster!!!

And the average person in America had no voice in the war "effort" please.

What a transparent, idiotic sentiment. This BILLIONAIRE is more concerned with his own wealth than he is with the issues that affect the other 99.999% of Americans. It's time for a president that doesn't cater exclusively to people like him, as opposed to what we've had for the past eight ears.

After Bush emptied out the bank... there aint no STINKING MONEY LEFT

i love u obama

$4.00 a gallon gas!!!!! I am being stuck up and robbed and they don't even need a gun. Will somebody tell me when this is going to be a problem for someone else besides me???

News flash to Mr. Icahn.... anybody home??? We ALREADY have a President who went on a huge spending spree AND there's already been a loss of confidence in the dollar!
President Obama will fix this by reinstating taxes on the wealthiest 2% of Americans, it's the economy all over again, stupid!

I totally agree with Icahn. Additionally, raising the capital gains tax will destroy the US stock market. The market is still trying to survive the aftermath of the subprime crisis. You think you have problems now? If the capital gains rate goes up and the market crashes, say goodbye to your 401K. Think it won't affect you? When the stock market falls, layoffs come quickly in the hundreds of thousands. Obama is a great speaker, but he'll send us into another depression.

I agree with LM...our tax money is spent on the war instead of wefare of the people..this war only makes the rich people more richer..why we have to have war in the name of peace..

Mr. Iahn needs to straight up his own economics. He invested money in moto and in returned how much did he get???? You need mental help Mr. Icahn.

Bush has spent money like a drunken frat boy (that he used to be). Icahn is about as self-serving as they get. I think he is the one who doesn't understand economics.

#1 you are right, the only ones benefiting from this war are those making money from it. Icahn obviously is a smart guy to be so rich, so I'm sure by saying something like that he has his motives. And I think it's nice for a billionaire like Buffet to support a democrat, even though republicans are generally better for the rich guys (at the expense of everyone else).

Who cares what people with billions think? They are financially so far above the average American that it's hard to take what they say serious. They just two stupid people with lots of luck and money. Both are capable of putting bowling alleys in thier outhouses and both have little to offer or care little what happens to our nations. The only resason Icahn is nervous is because Obama may actually cut the strings to his money making machine a.k.a. Iraqi Freedom, while the rest of poor smucks get $600 per adult which barely paid this months fuel bill. I say that Icahn's statement is a good reason to Vote For Obama!

Mr. Icahn has no understanding of how we got here and who got us here.
Icahn likes are getting our enemies richer, gas was $24 when W & Icahn likes took over. We also have more leftist govenments in Latin America since W & Icahn likes took over. Emplument is higher at the USD printing plants.
Do you have to be smart to becoem rich?
IQ anywhere?

I agree, for such a "smart" guy, Obama has marxist views that will drive this country in the exact wrong direction. By the way, the Iraq war is nothing compared to boondoggle we created with Ethanol and E85 ... the subsidies of those alone exceeds the total cost of the war and isn't sustainable ... and look what it did to the price of groceries (putting corn into the tank) ...even more painful than the cost of gas (per month).

oh come on, you know the Iraq war was to protect us from Afgan terrorists.

But at least now we are talking about an exit strategy...through Iran.

LM, I second that!

This war or events directly or indirectly related to it seems to jack up the price of oil even further just about every time I turn on NPR. If Obama is smart enough to surround himself with SMART PEOPLE (I believe he is), then we can whether this storm. People like Noam Chomsky and Warren Buffett ought to actually be cabinet members, or be consulted regularly at the very least. We can't afford to lose our middle class here, as Buffett has said in the past - if that happens, this country will surely implode (as if it isn't in the first throes already), and we won't have the luxury to argue L vs. R politics anymore. Let's come together, Americans! We can do this!

^agreed

I would trust Buffet's opinion over any other billionaires. He is by far the most ethical and honest out their.

And so people like LM start the demise of our country. Gotta stop them. That kind of thinking is not American. Simply daily fluctuations in the stock market account for more money on the economy than the war. And also where does US War money go? Maybe back to American companies selling guns and making airplanes? Your philosophies are more in line with the second-fiddle-superstars known as Canadians.

AMEN, LM!! Get over it, Mr. Icahn. I'm sure you'll find some sympathy amongst the other 1% who own the majority of the wealth of this country. I'm sure the roof over your head and the dinner on your table haven't felt a thing. You won't find any sympathy from the majority of us who are paying out the nose (and from the kitchen table) to fund Bush's contrived war for oil money.

Stupid Ichan, go try and save yahoo. Yahoo you can't even manage but now you have gots to pass judgement. Shame on you

Icahn's the kind of man who made his money and wants to keep it. He didn't become known as a "ruthless corporate raider" who banked on Milliken's junk bonds for nothing. Buffett actually backs the estate tax and sees no reason why rich people like himself should make off like bandits, when middle class people dutifully pay their taxes.

Icahn is also a neo-con who supported Bush-Cheney in 2004 and Hillary this time around. I don't think his economic thinking can be trusted, nor should billionaires be seen as any authority on the economy, but I'd take a mild-mannered Wizard of Omaha Buffett over the Wall Street tycoon.

Icahn is worrying about people making more than $200,000, we can see where his loyalty is...but of course what else would a selfish billionaire think about than losing some of his money. We should listen to Warren Buffet and Bloomberg especially Warren Buffet who has pledged to give away all his money and have given away billions to help poor people. If Obama plan is to divert the billions of dollars from the war in Irag to help the poor and the middle class to get health insurance and the basics of life: affordable food and tuition fees then it is the best plan. His plan to reduce our dependency on oil and make this place a better place by talking to our friends as well as our enemies will once again restore USA to as the greatest nation on earth.

It is more about their bottomline for the billioners like Icahn. It does not matter whhat you spend monney on. When trilions are spent on war it is OK, but not OK if it insuring the needy ones. What a stark choice and disrespect for the humans! Obama is the best choice this country have !

Ooooh, more taxes.. Highter inflation.. Look around Carl Icahn, gas is at $4 and people around the world are dying cause they can't afford basic staples and your claiming INFLATION?

"I don't normally get involved in politics, but this time I am,'' , yea we see why..

Something also tells me not to trust Obama, call it a gut feeling, I do not know, but as a loyal democrat I just will not go with him, may just sit this election out if Senator Clinton is not the nominee! Don't want to be responsible for Obama mistakes or same ole Bush stuff by McCain.

Who's war is it? Is it a war for the rich, or maybe the poor? No, it is a war for America. American soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen are over there fighting not for the rich, but for all of us.

A lot of money does not automatically make you smart about everything else! Typically, the voters who are as dumb as Obama will support him and have no idea of how much of a disaster he will create. His health bill alone is a $660 billion dollar bill...guess who pays the bill for that program? Not the big wage earners, its everyone in the country that pays taxes. That means you and me. And that bill is only the beginning if he gets into office. He thinks money comes from Heaven and has not the faintest idea of how economics works. At the trillion dollar level you need good judgment and experience to run that budget and to manage the largest country in the world. WAKE UP AMERICA! WHEN THINGS GET TOUGH, HE WILL SELL THE COUNTRY TO ISLAM AS HE STATED IN HIS BOOK!

It's more like he's support who ever going to be dem candidate. This article title is missing leading. How much did the writer get paid? or does the writter differ obama him/herself.

No LM, it is bullsh*t that people making over 200,000 have to pay for other people. The richest 10% of the US pays over 90% of the tax we face. It's not fair that someone who is a dumbass working at McDonalds gets away with paying jack sh*t when someone who works and provides more than a basic service pays there taxes. Poor people suck, they are the scum of the earth they are the biggest waste of space and good for nothing but scrubbing shit.

Obama is a retard and I can't wait till his last day comes, McCain 08.

Icahn may be a billionaire, but he's no genius, obviously.

"their war?" Let me ask you this, how do you heat your home and drive your car? This is OUR war. Radical Muslims want to hold the world's greatest energy supply hostage and force the west to live by the Koran, and you think this is just a war for the rich? Open your F$%#*^n eyes and look at the big picture.

So Icahn likes McCain, who is fine with keeping us in Iraq for a hundred years and racking up trillions of dollars of debt while creating additional security problems we will have to pay even more for later....but he is against Obama, whom he "suspects" will go on an undefined "spending spree"?

And he doesn't think Obama knows enough about the economy, when McCain has admitted on multiple occasions that he doesn't know anything about economics!??!

Sounds like Mr. Icahn has a hidden agenda, or is sadly losing his mind....Buffet is more successful anyway, I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.

It is presumptuous of you to conclude that the war belongs to "people making $200,000/year" - they had no more choice about the Iraq war than you did.

I Like it, straight forward reporting not taking sides.
Otis T

I really don't think Obama will go on a spending spree like Bush. Obama will definitely surround himself with the cream of the crops on economy. He knows all eyes are focused on him and I believe he will do his best not to disappoint the nation. The rich "put" Bush there in 2000 & 2004. See where he has led the nation into. Lets us all give Obama our full support and be ready to guide him if need be.

I think Icahn should step down from where he's seating and understand that there is already a loss of confidence in the Dollar and that prices have been going up everywhere else. That's what happens when you invade other countries, post troops everywhere and spend billion of dollars every week.

What I am worried about is McCain appetite for war; that's what will generate incredible spending, death, destruction, hatred and misery from the Middle East to here.

Yeah. Hate to say it, but if you're making THAT MUCH MONEY a year, then you can afford to pay YOUR FAIR SHARE of the taxes. I wouldn't if I was making THAT MUCH!

"It's their war"...

LM - You're typical of todays liberal, progressive, socialist democrat.

Enjoy your freedom. You make me sick.

Icahn 'thinks' Obama doesn't understand economics. So who does he support? McCain? McCain himself has admitted he doesn't understand economics! see http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/22/can-this-be-true/ or google "mccain understand economics to find the quote. Icahn needs to do a little more research before he goes around sticking his billions in his mouth.

Carl Icahn , fix your yahoo problem before your open your mouth. If you don't know politics , do not get involved.

Wow, Mr. Icahn. You are really out of touch with the average American. Most of us won't earn .01% of your worth this year; and you have the audacity to complain to us about how your quality of life will be affected if Obama is elected. The question is how will OUR quality of life be affected if he isn't. Maybe Mr. Buffet knows something that you don't. I mean, he is #1 in wealth in the world. Maybe we should listen to him.

Yikes ! Bush has been on a non-stop spending spree not only the war in Iraq,
but cutting revenues at the same time including providing tax credits to the oil companies. Meanwile, our local governments are forced to layoff teachers police and fireman to maintain the most basic services. Shame on you Carl!.

I personally don't get the sense that Obama will go on a spending spree either. However, dollars will need to be placed in programs to make the changes he is advocating i.e. climate/global warming, jobs, a "real" home security plan, infrastructure changes (moving off of oil) we shouldn't be spending so much money on wars - our country needs serious repair.

Dare I ask....how can you wreck THIS economy?

Well said... I do not see how Obama could spend more than Bush.... Bush will leave him nothing too spend.

I agree...........I really can't relate to the perspective of billionaires. I'll bet that none of their children are in Iraq.....I bet that investors are nervous about Obama, he's the only one actually stating that the economic melt down was partially cause by the deregulation of the investments industry.

O.K., I am trying to follow Mr. Icahn's reasoning, but with the current administration's policy, which Mr. McCain appears to be preparing to continue, we have had a precipitous fall in the dollar. It appears that a change in policy might be wise. Regarding the spending spree, it again appears that Mr. Bush has led this country on a massive spending spree without regards to the budget effects in the form of an unfunded war in Iraq. Seems like there was a budget Surplus when the Democrats last held the White House. And those tax increases for the top brackets? Again, might just help reduce the ever-widening difference between the wealthiest and the poorest in the nation. And perhaps restore some semblance of a balanced budget. But then again, what would I know? Like in Fiddler, when you are rich they think you really know.

You missed the point LM. Compounding the huge financial losses of the Iraq war with additional financial losses will get us no where and political posturing that speaks to some concept of "fairness" but results in a loss of GDP is lunacy. After all it is the basis of GDP that predicts government tax revenues and any economist will tell you that raising taxes lowers GDP. As for the idea that somehow this Iraq business is the idea of people making over $200,000 please remember that it is those people who pay for such bad ideas, more than the rest. What you really like LM, is the pledge from Obama that he is going to take some rich guy's money and give it to you. Robin Hood lived in a forest a long time ago. Your man Obama lives in a cave.

Agreed. If there is anyone who can actually save a depressed economy it is the rich people. Redistributing wealth throughout the economy, rather than keeping it horded in the hands of a few billionaires, could make us much more solvent as a nation. CEOs make 200-500 times what their average workers make and, in many cases, pay less in taxes.

"Icahn said, arguing that Obama would probably go on a "huge spending spree'' that "the country can't afford right now.''

Is this guy serious? Where did he get his credentials and where has he been for the last 8 years? If he is so worried about our economy, where was he when Bush got us in this mess? I have to remind you Mr. Icahn, Obama didn't get us into this mess.. Bush did...

Obama wants to end the war & trash the Bush tax cuts for the rich plan. That doesn't sound like a spending spree to me.. Obviously this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.

Dear LM-

It's NOT our war who make over $200K. There are plenty of the wealthy who HATE this war, so your reasoning is faulty!

JW

It's whoes war LM? People making more then $200K? I am sorry but that has to be about the most ignorant statement I've heard someone make in defense of Obama, and I've heard several.

Mr. Icahn's statements are based on Mr. Obama's propsed economic plans, and many economists agree that Mr. Obama just doesn't get it when it comes to economics. The spending spree Mr. Icahn refers to is not the war, which even it's huge expense is nothing compared to the cost of domestic programs.

We can always pass the hat for Mr. Ichan

Hmmm. "Huge spending spree" and "loss of confidence in the dollar" sound like the status quo for the last 8 years.

Warren Buffett has made his career by building companies and employment.

Carl Icahn has made his by tearing companies apart, sucking them dry and spitting the empty hulks in the gutter, along with their former employees.

Whose judgment counts more with me? The one who hasn't shown himself to be a craven, parasitical, Bush-loving leech.

So mr.Icahn happen to be talking about a spending spree now. Since the the election of George Bush and his friends,this country is deep debt, and he's been spending money like pouring it through a funnel!

Well, besides the people that make 200,000 or more (less than 5% of pop.) that pay more than 75% of the federal budget, every single other person below them (which i think is probably you LM) are going to start feeling the tax roll back in a worse way then the people that are going to be directly effected. Maybe in a little while you will start to understand capitolism and why EVERY other country is trying to move to this sort of model for their country, and moving away from the communist/marxist/socialist type of government that you would love. Warren Buffet is only supporting Obama because it is "in" to not like Bush. I would bet a lot of money that says on the ballot he is going to do the smart thing and vote conservative. PS the Iraq war (besides spreading democracy in a totalitarianistic region, saving countless innocent mass grave murder victims etc...) saved every single (over 100mil) person that invests in their retirement or stock market, and for that matter the entire rest of the population that relies on the stability of that.

Isn't Icahn the same idiot who is pushing to bring the Microsoft-Yahoo merger back to life? Talk about not understanding economics.

I would bet that LM May has a huge "LOSER" complex. Probably has the word written across his or her forehead. I guess when you are a loser you gain the virwpoint that all those that worked hard, studied , took business risks and succeeded should be penalized for their efforts. Hey, just because you failed and can't pay your own way doesn't make it right to lay additional tax burden on those that worked to get ahead. I guess you must have been told about the failed theories of Carl Marx. I'm sure you weren't capable of reading about them. Hey maybe they can come up with some new social program so you can get free refills for your crack pipe.

If Obama has a fault its that he's too honest. This is going to make a lot of people very unhappy. Prepare to wipe that billion dollar smile off your face Mr. Icahn.

If you are making more than $200K a year, you should pay more taxes! Out with the Republicans, in with the Democrats; either candidate would do a terrific job, much better than what we have had to endure for the past 8 years!

It's time the rich man started to pay his way instead of the middle class and poor having to make up for their tax breaks and stupidity! Mr. Ichon: I know you rich folk don't like it but a flat tax for everyone is the only fair way to go. I am tired of having to do with less so people like yourself can have more. You already have to much!Your wealth doesn't make you any better than anybody else on the face of this planet!

why are all these billionares endorsing these candidates.........
shouldnt the Democratic candidates be representing the working people of America????????????????

The Bush years have probably been very very good to Icahn. I can imagine a "change" candidate isn't his thing. From the NY Times Thursday, May 22, 2008:M

LEAD: A Federal bankruptcy judge ruled yesterday that Carl C. Icahn, Texaco's largest shareholder, cannot send his version of a bankruptcy reorganization plan for Texaco to other shareholders for their consideration.

A Federal bankruptcy judge ruled yesterday that Carl C. Icahn, Texaco's largest shareholder, cannot send his version of a bankruptcy reorganization plan for Texaco to other shareholders for their consideration.

loss in the dollar..is this idiot kidding the dollar is worthless..that is why oil is at 135 a barrel..oil is pegged to the dollar..over 3 trillion added to our national debt in the last 7 years.

LM i think you need to take an economics class. it's everyones war whether we supported it or not, we all have to pay for it. removing the tax cuts for the people making 200k would only help the economy and fix some of the huge problems that our idiot president has created. leaving them in place is going to do nothing positive except for make the wealthy more wealthy.

"It's their war - it's time to pay the piper." HUH? Did all of the high income earners in the country sit in session and vote to give the president the authority to go to war? No. Congress did.

Sounds like you're in favor of redistribution of wealth. Let's see, a single person makes $200,000 a year they pay 33% in taxes. That's $66,000 a year and that doesn't include what they pay into social security and medicare. The person that makes $66,000 a year pays 25% = $16,500 plus their share of SS and medicare. Seems to me that the person that makes me already pays more. Plus, the person who makes more likely employs other people.

Here's an idea....let's have a fair tax where everyone pays the same flat percentage, say 10%. So, the $200,000 income earner pays $20,000 and the $66,000 income earner pays $6,600. And lets do away with the tax loopholes.

And if you don't think both Obama and Hillary woudn't go on a spending spree and raise everyone's taxes to pay for all of their social programs, you'd better think again.

I would have to go along with Warren Buffet on this one.

As far as Carl Icahn is concerned he is obviously not well-informed and needs to get with it very quickly.

Isn't it amazing how ignorant a lot of Americans are about their own country and what is really happening or not happening, as the case may be.

America is ripe for change and Barrack Obama is the right choice for President of the United States of America.

2 mr.icahn,
and ur comments on how much bush or the other contenders understand the same?!

Mr. Icahn loves the trillion dollar war but hates spending a few billion to get universal health coverage. He thinks that will hurt the economy. I think he is out there thinking only for himself. I am sure he has good health coverage.

I guess Mr. Icahn is a Faux News regular. He has never heard about the record government spending during this Bush administration. Oh, that's right; it's to keep us safe. Safe, schmafe! An Obama presidency would be a huge step for the US and a small penance to pay the world for the unforgivable and destructive last eight years.

I'd worrie about the Chemtrails
and the children, women, and families.
money is the root of all evil
Revelation
Bahama Kin

LM,
It isnot your money! How can you talk about taking that money from people? I don't make $200k per year, but I would like to some day. Would you be OK with your neighbor walking in to your home and taking your cash, or your valuables? Why is it OK for IRS agents and the Feds to go to your bank and employer and steal your money? In 1776 we started a war with Britain over 2% in taxes. Now you pay 50% tax on your phone bill, 17% tax on Social security and Medicare (no matter how much you make), 20+% tax on the gas you put in your car, and between 10 and 33% on the income you make. Is that fair? Is it right for the ARMED government to come in and steal your money and mine? WAKE UP YOU IDIOT.

What he really means is that Barack Obama would be a terrible president... for people like him (which is what, less than 1% of the population?). This is a bunch of malarkey from a man who wants to keep every penny in his unnecessarily large fortune.

I think the rich should pay more taxes and help pay for the war. Washington alway look out for the rich. Its the 200,00 a year house holes that get hurt the most.

He doesn't understand economics ? I think he undestands if not more just as much as Hillary and Mcain. He has achieved so much in a very short period of time, what you call your personal achievement pales in comparison. On the other hand Buffet whom i respect deeply has the moral, and the ethical compass not to mention human nature, and he has a good window from which to judge, whether it be the economy or taxes or other issues as it relates to the candidates. In short he has CREDIBILITY. Obama is not just a candidate, "He is the CANDIDATE"

Hmmm, let's see, let's see if Obama can do a better job than Bush & Cheney (remember him?) of "wrecking" the economy. Ultimately, we'll need a president that can invest in the American people instead of the unfounded Iraq war and Oil Companies. Ask any American on the street why we're fighting in Iraq, they will tell you "We're protecting our freedom." In actuality, we're less protected from a major terrorist threat, no sign of Bin Laden AND we have less "financial" freedom with high gas prices. How much did that cost us? +$3,000,000,000 and +4,000 U.S. soldiers + thousands of IRAQI civilians.

"I don't think Obama really understands economics." Translation: Obama doesn't agree with my personal economic philosophy, and his ideas may end up costing billionaires like me a few extra dollars.
In case Mr. Icahn hasn't noticed, loss of confidence in the dollar has already occurred, and tax cuts for people making more than $200,000 have not helped stem that tide.

We must remember that Warren Buffett has made lots of money for lots of folks, and did it over several administrations, Democrat & republican.
Carl Icahn, on the other hand, has made a lot of money for Carl Icahn during the same period, but with a "me first, the Hell with everybody else" attitude.
Icahn is looking out for Old #1.
The President can do precious little without an okay from Congress.
Regardless of your feelings about the war, Congress DID authorize it.....and this is the same Congress votes Pork Barrel......"me first......"
Okay, so Bush "mis-spoke" (Hilliary's phrase) about the intelligence. Wonder if Congress was dodging bullets, too?
While I'm at it, might as well jab McCain. John McCain is NOT a "war hero" as some say. No, John McCain is a veteran of the Vietnam War who happened to have been held as a POW. The real heroes of that conflict are listed on the Wall.
Lots of difference between "veteran" and "hero".

"A huge spending spree".... Trillion dollar Iraq war is the biggest spending spree in my lifetime. Sorry Mr. Icahn: I am not worried about people making $200,000/year paying more in taxes. It's their war - it's time to pay the piper. Posted by LM May"

A trillion over 5 years for the war versus a trillion per year for Obama's programs, come on. Wake up, Obama expects the top 5% of earners in the US to pay their fare share. Top 5% starts at $72,000 per year, oh yea i forget you expect the government to take care of you versus making it on your own.
The only hope Obama offers, and any other liberal is a larger welfare state, more taxes, more government..... sorry I'll take capitalism over socialism any day.

The Oracle has spoken. Obama is his choice for President!!!!! As far as reckless spending spree, well, George Bush and the Republican Congress did that for the past 8 years. Republicans have not acted as the conservatives they claim to be, and as a result the economy is in dire straits. The Republican anwer has been, no government, no protection to the public, and the invisible hand will magically work for the good of the country. That's only possible when the invisible hand understands grandma is going to freeze this coming winter because her fixed income can barely pay for her meds. Mr. Buffet and Mayor Bloomberg would be great advisors to President Obama, as would be Union Leaders, and Consumer Advocates. I saw the Oil Excecutives being question in Congress today. There was plenty of talk, and yet no action. It seems they told Congress they're in charge, and you the representatives of the people can't make us do anything about it. Can we drill in Alaska now? I say sure, but you won't be doing it, lets break you up, let's renegotiate the national resource you guys worked behind closed doors with Bush, and lets make sure that oil stays in the USA. It is America's Oil afterall, why would we trust them? They'll sell it to China, and keep us poor. The oil companies and OPEC are only faithful to their bottom line, not the people of our Country :(

I do not like this country to be spending over 700 billion dollars a day in Iraq. There are numerious projects in America that could be addressed with those funds. Senator Obma is like most every other Democrat. They try to create class warfare. I think it is great that a person is able to earn over 200 thousand dollars a year. Why should they be penalized?
I too agree that Senator Obama does not understand basic economics. He is a politician, and will do most any and all things to garner votes. He is frightened to make the hard decisions.

"Trillion dollar" war? The Iraq war cost about $100 Billion a year, I certainly agree that this is too much. But this is no where close to the figures that Obama's plans will cost.

A trillion dollars may be the biggest in your lifetime so far but that could easily change if Obama is elected ... as far as taxing people making 200k a year ... your right you need not feel sorry for them but what about the folks who make 30k a year having thier taxes increased to pay for the additional people who will become unemployed when his economic policies chase the rest of our jobs overseas.

Mc Cain can easily beat Obama. If you want a Democratic President then you better vote for Hillary. She has the best chance to win. I think everyone agrees that we need a Domacratic President.

I guess Mr. Icahn must have lived in Planet in Mars or perhaps just awaken from a brain surgery in the last seven years. This is an administration that took a surplus and turned it into the biggest spending spree in U.S. history, big government, trillions and trillions of dollars in debt.

Warren is synonmous with "CREDIBILITY" at least in my dictionary. Icahn, who ? the guy with a lots of money !!

I agree with Icahn.. Some of us work very hard for our higher salaries and if anyone understands the tax system, we (those making over 200K per year) pay for 2/3rds of the taxes collected by our IRS. We also make up the top 2% of the population. So, yes, it does bother me that we pay such a large part of the tax burden, but it also bothers me that Obama and Clinton have been thought of as options to lead our country when they have NO experience on real issues such the war or the economy.

I wonder who Icahn is supporting? McCain is quoted on multiple occassions as saying,"he doesn't understand the economy as well as he should," or "doesn't really understand economics," or "I'm going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues. I still need to be educated." Great. So, if not Obama, and obviously not McCain, who does Icahn suggest we Americans support??

i bet everyone who agrees with LM are the same people that re-elected bush after his first term....

LM - You hit that right. Don't worry, Icahn is a corporate raider, with ties to Michael Milkin's junk bonds. He's currently trying to destroy yahoo. The guy is one of those soulless no class financiers. Look into his "Philanthropy" and you find a lot of buildings and projects named after himself. He might as well change his name to Monte Burns.

Buffet, OTOH, is a class act all the way. Wiki them both and decide which person you think has more insight. The world's richest man who made his fortune by building up, or the 46th richest man who made his fortune by breaking down.

I think I'll remain a Buffet fan.

I get so disgusted with people like Icahn making judgements on what's better for this country. Carl is one more contributor in America's near ruin due to corporate greed and irresponsibility. Political opinions of the far upper class are the last insights common people should consider. Where is the class struggle and the guillotine?

What's good for the billionaires of this world is rarely good for the rest of us. If anything their opinion should highlight who we should stay away from. I notice Mr. Icahn didn't give an opinion on who he would prefer and why that person would be better, and Mr. Buffet didn't give us a reason why he likes Obama, or whether his preference is based on economic issues at all. A rather uninformative article on the whole. You might have simply posted the opinions of two random people for what its worth.

Gotta agree with LM. Look what Bush did to the US economy, let alone the world economy. Ultimately Bush's decisions put the US in their current mess. He could've used the 3 trillion surplus to support the economy, instead he blew it on a tax break for the rich.

If Mr. Icahn feels that way about Sen. Obama, how does he feel about Sen. McCain who ADMITTED (several times) that he doesn't understand economics? Mr. Icahn must be planning to sit at home this November.

Then again, Mr. Icahn has also apparently been living in a cave and thus must've missed the new that international players already have lost confidence in the dollar as Pres. Bush lets it slide further and further....

The concept that spending on our infrastructure that is crumbling, helathcare that is spiraling out of reach of an increasing number of Americans is bad economics is plain ridiiculous. Especially when viewed against the backdrop of the current administration which has run up record deficits funding a war that has helped terrorists recruit new members whilst bringing America near bankruptcy. This is also the administration that pushed through tax reform that allows the top 5% who are rich to pay half the rate of tax of the rest.
I will pay more tax under Barrack than McCain or Bush and I am happy to do so. As an American icon, I suggest Carl Icahn should be happy to do what is right so that all Americans have the chance to live the American Dream he enjoys.

Geoff

Our below inflation interest rates, unnecessary war and financial deceit are causing a loss of confidence in the dollar. Raising interest rates and lowering our national debt are the two steps that will improve international support for the dollar the most. Fixing the situation in Iraq and the middle east in general will also support America's standing in the international community. I can't see what Carl Icahn is talking about.

do you really think the tax hike will only be on people making $200,000

Yes, Mr. Icahn knows economics. He knows the economics of wealthy people - not the economics of common people. As long as budget and tax help rich people it's OK. The trillion $ Iraq war is OK to Mr Icahn because it's helping wealthy people. Obama's policy to help common people is not OK for Mr. Icahn because it's not helping wealthy people. Bush-MaCain policy is to subject economy at the service of the wealthy and rich people. Obama wants to turn it around. He may not be the perfiect. But he is the best hope for the common people. Obama's polciy will not make rich less rich but will make common people richer. It's nothing wrong for our government to get involved in solivng people's problem. Goverment is doing for the rich poeple all the time. Have you heard anything called corporate welfare. Mr Icahn and like are beneficiary of corporate welfare directly and indirectly. I think American people deserve some help from their government too. Because it's the right thing to do.

If Mr. Icahn feels that way about Sen. Obama, how does he feel about Sen. McCain who ADMITTED (several times) that he doesn't understand economics? Mr. Icahn must be planning to sit at home this November.

Then again, Mr. Icahn has also apparently been living in a cave and thus must've missed the new that international players already have lost confidence in the dollar as Pres. Bush lets it slide further and further....

Icahn-the corporate raider-union-buster...has no heart...
how can anyone argue with Warren Buffett-modest and philanthropic?
and I'm not so inclined to think Obama's ready but if he can put together a strong team-there's "HOPE"...

I challenge all people who support Obama to wiki search federal budget and explain how we can afford a spending spree that will be needed to back up his promises. Please vote on facts, not on delusions. Also, lets factor in the cost of recovery from future attacks due to the terrorist breading ground that will be left of Iraq if we leave?

Honestly, as if the war in Iraq is not costing us untold billions of dollars. And the loss of confidence in the dollar is due mostly to the war and our growing national debt...not the threat of some rich people having to pay their fair share in taxes.

"You would have a loss of confidence in the dollar".... are you kidding me? Does Icahn believe that most people haven't already lost confidence in the dollar since Bush took over? I hope that Mr. Obama, as President, is able to remove the cap on Social Security as well as letting the tax cuts lapse on those making >$200k/year.

Does this economy problem really effect billionaires in a negative way? No. The billionaires will make more billions $$ during the hard-times. I don't think the rich and famous have a clue about making ends meet to survive. The rich and famous are not good advisors on how to make the world economy work efficiently for the middle class/working class., poor class. Their perspective on economics is skewed by their wealth and greed to have more and give their billions in a way that is not helpful to the economy – the general population. Surly, Warren Buffett could have given to more foundations that really make a huge difference with very little money. But he wants to dance with the other billionaires – so the small efficiently run organizations will never get a chance to show what a big difference they make on a shoe string budget because the Buffetts of the world don't give a tinker's dam

If Icahn is such a great economic forecaster, why can't he sell his skills to the higher-ups at Yahoo?

I am constantly amazed at the stupidity of otherwise intelligent people who when the name Barak Obama comes up they get a Jim Jones mentality and follow along...wow you people must love kool aid..I wouldn't vote for the creep regardless of who is in favor or against him. He will single handlely bring down our country and all you sheep can file along and go with him.

Couldn't agree more. We already have wasteful spending with the Iraq war and the tax cuts already in place along with oil subsidies.

I don't like spending my dollar to support universal health care, either. Should I be given the right to direct my own charity.

There are many kind of people out there who choose to be poor. Not just financially, but also in the way they take care of their own health.

Please tell me why I should give my dollar to support other people health care, especially those that choose to destroy it like smoker, etc.

Small Goverment is the way to go and let the market take control not goverment.

Carl Icahn raises a serious issue. We have been financing large federal budget and international trade deficits by borrowing huge sums of money abroad. Ending "Bush's tax cuts for the rich" won't raise enough money to pay for universal health care, farm subsidies, relief for mortgage borrowers, alternative energy research, and all the other expenditdures that President Obama and a Democratic Congress would enact. Even if we withdraw most of our troops from Iraq, we will still need a large defense budget to prevent terrorist attacks and chaos in the world. At least Joh McCain would try to eliminate some of the waste in the current federal budget instead of just taxing and spending larger sums.

How is Obama going to reduce the National Debt while adding 1 trillion to the budget (3 trillion right now) for healthcare. Sounds like a lot of taxes on the way for all of us

So presidents should now be economic scholars as well? While I'm sad that our current economic genius is going to leave office, I'm sure he's had a little help over the years. Isn't that part of why we pick a president? Obama would be a good president because he would pick the APPROPRIATE people to surround himself with. Not only his friends and loyalists. And isn't a endless, meaningless war the DEFINITION of a "spending spree"?

I would add that Obama is endorsed by Paul Volcker, several ex-SEC chairmen (from Reagan, Carter and Clinton administrations), William Lewis-Dreyfuss, and plenty more in the business and economic worlds:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Barack_Obama_presidential_campaign_endorsements

Carl Icahn? His own knowledge of economics is purely micro: his personal net worth.

Mr Icahn,
I applaud your understanding of economics. At least as far as your own wealth is concerned. I am only guessing but are you somehow or maybe completely invested in companies making products used in war? Like really expensive bombs and aircraft. Because if you are your comments make complete sense. If not you may be verging on nonsensical and I know most billionaires are not nonsensical. Anyway, nice try. And if Obama does get elected I would suggest investing in things made by the common man. Good luck!
DS

Yeah well the people who make over 200K are the people who do not exploit the govt for every dollar possible, i .e. welfare, so they should pay less taxes. This is not a communist country. Also i think Obama is living in a fairty tale world and has no idea the real world implications of his mickey mouse politics. The economy won't mean much when we all get blown to pieces!

In response to

Well I think Mr. Icahn might be pointing to fact that the United States can not afford another extreme president. Whether the president is a republican or a democrat it doesn't matter extreme is extreme. People making 200k a year I'm sure don't want a war either. Everyone is effected by what's happening today unless you are a multi-millionaire or billionaire.

Got a real kick out of CI's concern about Obama and govt spending. Just what does he think the master corporate puppet we are now gifted with is doing???
Looks to me like we are spent into oblivion, but then its not for the social good, its for corporate coffers instead..seems to make all the difference ay what???

There is a difference between spending and investing. This last generation of students in the US were ranked 18 out of 24 in 2003 in a study conducted by UNICEF. These same kids are pledging allegiance at the beginning of every day and being told that this is a "free country". "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be." --Thomas Jefferson to Charles Yancey, 1816. ME 14:384

I doubt McCain is going to bring the US in to the top 10 when it comes to education.

Obama would be a terrible president for all... Yeah, lets tax more those who make more then 200,000, those are many of the small business you would force to let employees go... let's increase welfare and encourge people not to work, lets let the government control healthcare and cause delays you would not believe, look at places with healthcare run by the government and you will see sick people waiting months for tests... lets kill the unborn too while we are at it... wether it's the murder of abortion or stem cells it's still human life... the war in Iraq is a drop in the bucket to the life destroyed because of convience... no thank you, the liberal way is the way of destroying the USA as we know it...

i still remember 911 ,look at the man you are putting in the drivers seat,and his wife dispised america, hated white women,burned the flag, obama not put hand on bible ,will not ware flag pennet ,could destoy our country,has ties with alkida
does not except the united states as his country .that tells me and should tell you
that any one that can,t love america or the flag our boys died for should not be here a little lone be running for president of our country.read the name out loud
barroc hussine obama,you guess it right my family is not voting for them
go hillary clinton you got my vote....... sonny

The reality we all face as Americans is that no matter which party gets into the white house…we’re hosed. The socialist democrats will “Give” us the poor house on a platter and the Fascist republicans will sell our country to the highest bidder. Meanwhile billionaires, who are so wealthy, if the Dems get in will increase their power base and if the Repubs get it will increase their profit as they ARE big business. So it boils down to what you want to vote for; bread lines/medical lines or Chinese as your second language

" tax cuts lapse for people making more than $200,000 a year. "You would have a loss of confidence in the dollar,'' ....

It seems a bit odd that Icahn feels this way, when our so called 'political experts' say Obama is struggling to get the vote of the working class. Now all the sudden some rich investor says Obama doesn't have the votes from the rich upper class. So which is it?? Obviously, Ichan's just unhappy that Obama might take money out of his pocket, and give it to those who need it. Its not like he'll notice it's gone.

The only loss of confidence will be with rich people just like him. At the same time, there will be an increase in confidence from middle to low-income people who have lost faith. They are the ONLY ones who matter, they represent the majority of this country.

Until we give the president line-item veto power, I don't give a dang who is president, they won't be able to control spending.

Until we have a balanced budget requirement with dire consequences to those who are elected (like not being allowed to stand for re-election) I don't care who is president.

What I do care about is someone who says "if my daughter makes a mistake, she shouldn't be penalized with a baby." That is unforgivable.

MR - We did not start a war with Britain because of the percentage of the tax, get a clue. We started a war because we the people had no say in whether or not we were taxed. The taxes we paid then went to pay for the opulent lifestyles of an elite and lazy monarchy.

Speaking of Idiots, did you know that Bush raised taxes? Or are you one of those clueless twits who thinks the debts and deficits he's run up will never have to be paid back us? Not just the war, but the largest social spending increase since the new deal in the form of the prescription drug benefit. I wonder what you had to say if you said anything at all, when that was passsed by a republican president, and a republican congress.

You know what is idiotic? The cut tax and spend crowd. They are the ones who have led to the devaluation of the dollar that has occurred. THAT IS A TAX. When the dollar is devalued, that is a hidden tax and it is that hidden tax which the cut tax and spend crowd has actually banked on to deal with the debts and deficits they've created.

See, you're going to pay the debt one way or the other. Either through a straightforward tax of your income, or through the devaluation of your existing money. Take your pick. I'm an honest man who doesn't like underhanded games, so I'd just assume pay the tax up front on income I'm bringing in today, instead of having the money I've already earned taxed through devaluation.

As for you thinking you have a right to live in this nation and enjoy all the benefits afforded to you and the luxurious lifestyle that our system of government affords you as compared to anywhere else in the world and not have to pay to maintain that system which affords you the opportunities you have, including your ability to make money, well, we all wish Santa Claus was real, but he's not kiddo. Grow up and grow a pair.

its all a game of words.the bush folks dont give anything to the poor but they can sure give contracts to their wealthy supporters and let the poor folks at the bottom bear the cost.
homeland security, halliburton, former oil executives as heads of state, no oversight budgets,war on communism (worked for awhile) , war on drugs (worked for awhile) war on terror (who will dare to put a budget cap on what funds are needed to fight the war on terror) the republicans peddling paranoia to make them richer than ever. with the ever escalating price of oil do we think the BUSH /CHENEY financial interests might be benefitting just a litte.

oh, and BTW, the biggest drop in the dollar has happened when the demoncrates were in the majority so who is really to blame?

I am not a billionaire but I am wealthy and make over 200k a year and at one time in my life I used to make 4.25 an hour. But taxing people making more money is the wrong policy. Just because I make more money I should not be taxed at a higher rate as it discourages me from investing in new businesses (creation of new jobs and wealth). If anything everyone should pay a flat tax , that would be more fair. Last year I paid over $100,000 in taxes, paid at a higher tax bracket and to add insult to injury, I am not even entitled to a tax rebate because I made too much. It is very unfair because I took risks and failed many times to get where I am. To penalize people like me, would be to surpress the economy.

MR,
You are right on. It's always easier to give away and spend other people's money. That why our governement always has spending problems - war or no war. Our governement has only had "projected balanced budgets and surpluses" based on economic growth and predicted economic growth at the time the numbers are crunched. The only "rich people" for Obama or Clinton are people's who's lives will never feel the crunch of any imposed tax increase. If the tax code got too "progressive" the mega - rich which switch sides in a heartbeat.

Newsflash; someone making over $200K is no longer "rich" in this country. They may be doing well, but definitely not wealthy. Also, people making more than $200K already pay more than their fair share in taxes. The sliding scales sees to that!!!

At least Bush is not a hypocritical hustler who will throw anybody under the bus who stands in his way! I am no fan of Rev. Wright but any good Black Baptist knows you do not insult your pastor like that. He not only threw him under the bus he also threw his grandmother. He is nothing but a pompous idiot who has no sound plan for this country. What exactly is Change going to do? What I can go from doing well to doing bad yes that is going to be a great change. I just hope the sheep see the light and throw this idiot under a moving bus!

To Tina,

How crazy you sound, Jimmy Carter was one of the last good presidents we had, Ronald Regan was a robber barrin, George Bush Sr. an oil man, it was Jimmy Carter who got the hostages released from Iran, not Regan he sold weapons to them hello Iran contra anyone! It was all propaganda on Regan's part and history somehow have made this man a great president while completely tanishing the reputation of one of our best Presidents, Jimmy Carter's down fall in politics was that he was honest, we live in the information age, do your homework before making such a stupid comment. Honest people with good intentions are punished in the world of politics, no wonder we are getting it so bad now...

What a load of crap. Carl Icahn used to be in cahoots with Michael Milkan (aka the king of junk bonds) and after Milkan went to prison Icahn suddenly wanted to keep a low public profile. As for Icahn’s argument about lost confidence in the dollar if people making over $200K loose their tax breaks… that argument would get an “F” in any accredited Economics class. If you increase the tax on people making over $200K you increase government revenues and therefore gain the ability to pay off the national debt and fund public projects (infrastructure, education, Katrina relief, etc.) that President Bush has been neglecting for the last 7 and a half years. Icahn has always been about feathering his own nest and he is afraid that Obama is going to make getting wealthier a little harder. Let’s all take a moment to cry for Carl Icahn.

It appears that Mr. Icahn's understanding of economics is limited to the attitudes prevalent in his world of greed, corporate takeovers, environmental abuse, exclusiveness, and ambivalence toward the needs and aspirations of most Americans. The Bush tax cuts, Bush Iraq war, and Bush neglect of domestic priorities has produced the greatest deficits in our history, the weakest dollar in years, the highest lack of confidence in our economy in 20 years, and the most serious challenge to our financial systems in decades.

The vision, judgement, and priorities promoted by Senator Obama as President is precisely the kind of leadership required to restore our nation's economy to a more stable and inclusive condition and our nation's stature in the world to its historical leadership position.

Not to over generalize a poll but it seems that in some cases educated people are even more partisan that lesser educated people:
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/05/the-climate-cha.html
Maybe that's the case here as well with finance. Both weather and finance have mathematical models that are so complex that there is a great deal debate in those fields.

I personally would trust a man who runs berkshire hathaway over one that runs time warner any day... but then again, statistically, I am an obamacan.

Icahn likes to raid corporatations and make himself the center of power and attention by pouring billions into a situation that's compromised. Buffett is a wizzard and a man of reason and personal humility...still lives simply in Omaha and has given billions to great causes. I've known persons who have worked for him personally and cannot say enough good about who he is and his capacity for vision.

Icahn is a control freak Republican mettling in the other party in order to ensure yet another generation of Republican lobbyists (aka, guaranteed $$$ for billionaires) takes over Washington. He is not widely respected, and more feared or seen as an incredibly irritating 10-pound horsefly. Meanwhile, Buffett is a master CEO, investor and visionary and a Democrat. I think right there we have the contrast between McBush/Cain and Obama. I am finished with this lobbyist/arms industry-controlled "democracy." Maybe Rupert Murdock and Icahn will buy up the few remaining free media voices and we can all then "celebrate" the fruition of "1984."

LOL that is just too fantastic ...Buffettone of the honest Billionaires my assss.Wasn't it Warren Buffett that offered to help The failing bansk due to sub prime loans trying to make it seem like he is a humanitarian but was only after their prime assets and was going to charge them an extra 50% of the cost on a short term loan?Yeah that is honest,i guess if it was an other Billionaire except the Extreme Liberal that Obama has in his back pocket all these a-holes would be screeming bloody murder. Buffett has done so many hostile takeovers of companies and destroyed them and he is the honest one?LOVE the double standard of these Obama pisss drinking fools.

Where the heck was Icahn during the current spending spree??!

I'm tired of hearing one party blindly describing the other as "tax and spend" with little regard to their own actions. Under the current administration, all Americans, particularly those such has Icahn have been taxed through lost revenue as a result of this war and rising fuel costs.

A quick check here http://risingsons.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!1FF898EC70F0ED78!918.entry indicates that we're now in the hole for $8.2 TRILLION dollars. Which equates to $27.5k for every living American.

Nice to know that I get to give 1/4 of what I make to the failed policies of this lame administration! I'd doubt pond scum could screw things up any more than this administration has. BRING ON THE CHANGE!!!

In my discussions with people I notice that politicians are voted on by what we get. This is not always what is best for the country as a whole, but for individual groups. To the person earning 12,000 a year, 200,000 sounds like a lot. It is however unfair to tax those that have in order to give to those that do not. We cannot tax to level out society without taking away from each of us our freedom. Those that look to the government for financial help are then controlled by the government. Everyone that I now that is receiving government assistance is limited in their freedom; they are told where they can live (section 8 housing), how much they can earn or have in the bank (no more than 2,000). Therefore they cannot climb out. On the other hand those that make "too much" loose the ability to use their income to support the economy by spending. It is dollars spent that keep the economy going. I am in the lower income bracket, but do not receive any government help because I do not want to live with the rules that the government will place on me. My personal freedom is important to me. So before anyone votes for a politician based on what they will get, you should ask what is it that you are giving up in personal freedom. It was John Kennedy who once said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." We have lost that.

i TOO, LIKED Sen. OBAMA UNTIL THE CAMPAIGN WENT ON. I REALLY BELIEVE THAT SEN. OBAMA WOULD MOVE THIS COUNTRY SO FAR FROM OUR CONSTITUTION AND WOULD OUT SPEND former Presidents ON "FEEL GOOD" PROJECTS. WE NEED TO GET OFF OIL AND PULL IN OUR SPENDING HABITS, AS A NATION AND AS INDIVIDUALS. I truly believe that Sen. Obama way too naive and inexperienced to become the leader of this country. We need a STRONG and wise head to rule this nation thoughtfully. We, the citizens, do not want to become a carbon copy of Europe.

It would be so easy for someone in that office to trash the American experience. Do I know who would be good? No, I am sad to say I don't. The political process has gotten out of hand and we the people have no say in the leaders that are chosen to run.

Hopefully, everything will work out. I am sick of sound bites and attack politics. We need ideas and character in the White House

I couldn't agree more LM.

Icahn says "I don't think Obama really understands economics". On what does he base his opinion? Has he read Obama's excellent book, The Audacity of Hope? I'm not suggesting Obama is an expert but I do know that he is smart enough to surround himself with advisers.

And he was one of a handful of those who stood against the war. And he did it, not when it was politically expedient but, while everyone else was against him and making decisions in anger. We need a president with a cool head. One who will talk with allies and enemies alike. One who will not destroy our reputation around the world.

Icahn says "I don't think Obama really understands economics." Yes Icahn certainly understands economics: he doesn't like the idea of paying his fair share of the tax burden.

We're tired of the richest having the loopholes while the rest of us foot the bill. And you can be damn sure the rich don't have their sons and daughters within 10,000 miles of Iraq or Afghanistan.

And regarding the Trillion Dollars:

Republicans and the Christian right blast Democrats for wanting government dollars to help Americans that need the chance to improve their lives. They whine that that is the responsibility of the church and the people. But isn't the government a government of the people, by the people, for the people?

If a poll of Americans was taken with the choice: We have a trillion dollars - shall we spend it in our country to improve our educational system, create jobs in alternative energy to reduce our dependency on sky-rocketing foreign oil, and create jobs to improve our infrastructure?

Or shall we spend the trillion dollars and send our sons and daughters to war in Iraq?

What do you think our answer would be?

Enough of the policies of fear and war. It's time for a change.

I am more responding to both your comment LM, and the article. I don't quite get it that someone is saying Obama doesn't understand economics, when it's not up to the President to be the economic problem-solver. That's what his appointed (hopefully competent) staff is supposed to help do. A President should be a jack of all trades, whenever possible, but say someone can't be President because they don't know everything about economics is a stupid thing to say. Icahn and Buffet, there are few people in the US who would match either of your economic success and business savvy...so in either of your eyes Obama would NEVER match up! He's not supposed to! Otherwise you guys can run for President!

Anyway...now for the other thing I am repsonding to. LM take note. Just because people work their rear ends off, in many cases their whole lives to build fortunes and finally start being financially successful is no reason for someone to come along and say "pay up" with their hand stuck out in your face palm up! This is not a socialist or communist country, never will be. Also as a veteran I take exception to your claim that people who make over $200,000 magically approved the war. What are you smoking? Over 150 million+ citizens voted for Bush the second time around even after the Iraq and Afghan conflicts were started. There are NOT 150 million people making over $200,000 a year in this country and even the number that do is shrinking with the economy in the crapper the way it is now. I make less than half that, but I don't blame people who make over 200,000 for any war?
The piper is US, the USA, and yes we have paid with lives and money...I personally know of two families where I live who I am sure make over 200,000 and their sons are dead one fighting in Afghanistan, the other in Iraq. Go collect your liberal hand out from them if that's the sort of thing you believe in.

I'm not concerned that either Democratic candidate would go on a spending spree... I think they would be hard pressed to keep up with President Bush! Although, we do need to start spending money on our infrastructure, which would help the economy. I support Hillary Clinton for President. She's been elected to the Senate twice, while Barack Obama has spent his entire time in the Senate running for President. I not so sure Obama will have the political capital to be able to make much change happen. If he's elected... I hope I'm wrong.

Hey, guys and gals, we all need to know more about the history of political
parties, especially just now. The current issue or the New Yorker, for May
29, has a terrific article on the rise, decline, and fall of the Republican Party by George Packer. Republicans: read it and weep (and wise up); Democrats:
read it and smile (and get some informed history on why the country is set
for a political sea-change in November. You can find the article online.
Darrel

what a inflammatory and misleading headline designed to draw in viewers the only real person of reputable standing is buffett. sure, I have occasionally seen my stock pop when ichan raided it, but it eventually falls back as his only agenda is greed for himself. his excuse of tax benefits for the rich that could impact the falling dollar is pure junk. the dollar is falling for many reasons: over extended debt (cheny's deficits don't matter), lack of gold standard backing leads the US' now flimsy and soft currency to fumble as hard assets (black gold) become a more stable monetary alternative, rising economic powers outside the US etc. of all the people, ichan should understand hype inflates stocks (and the US dollar) with p/e, peg, etc, but when the bubble bursts, the book price (gold backing) becomes the relevant measure.

Mr. Icahn the economy is already screwed up for the average american. Bush and his cronies have looted the treasury under the guise of WMD's with the war in iraq. Now they say we cannot leave because of terrorists. The so called terrorists are the iraqi people who we are supposted to be helping. The reconstruction in iraq was supposted to be paid for with the proceeds from the sale of oil after removing Sadam What is happening with that revenue? No bid contracts were given to Halliburton who are Cheny's partners and they cannot grab the money fast enough they have to over bill. While all this is happening this government is shipping jobs overseas and the few jobs that are left in this country our big business people such as yourself want to import more foreign labor while many americans go jobless. If all this isn't enough now our president does not want to create a new GI bill for those americans who are lucky enough to return from iraq alive because he and his cronies think that they will not reinlist to continue to fight this illegal and immoral war if they can go to college. I could go on and on if you like. Obama has a few answers that will help so get off his back. He sure as heck cannot do any worse than what has transpired these past seven years and I do not think we can survive four more years of BushMcCain.

I am going to thoroughly enjoy watching the hateful, nasty Republican supporters sit through 8 years of "I told you so..."

If Obama is President, and does half as well as most expect, it will be a LONG time before we allow the petty, juvenile Republicans a seat at the table again.

Here in the Northeast, where it takes 60k salary a year to live in a one bedroom apartment and keep a late model compact car, I would hardly call 200k a year rich. I would call it a step above mediocre for a family of four in a decent suburb. If you live in NJ, the highest taxed state in the union, and happen to have been fortunate enough and worked hard enough, you are nothing more than a target for those who would take your last dime and give it to someone else to satisfy their social agenda.

HI ICAH WHY DIDNT YOU GIVE THAT ADVISE TO BUSH ADMINISTRATION POOR SORE LOOSER

Surprise, surprise: Carl Icahn doesn't want a President who is focused upon anyone who does not earn $200K or more. Anyone who has followed the messes he has created understand was a miserable excuse for a human being he is.

Mr. Buffet...........thank God, is human being. He cares about people other than himself. Surprise, surprise: he is for Obama.

I agree. Obama would be a terrible president. What does he have to offer? Silver tongue and false hope. It is like a high school kid running the education department. And what is wrong to be rich? Isn't that what everyone wants? It is the rich that is able to give the poor the jobs. The hostility towards the rich is a sentiment that Mao used to rally the poor and gained his power. By killing off the rich and the landlord, he made everyone poor. A lot of people will vote for Obama not because they like him. It is because they dislike what is going on with Bush. They want a fresh start. They want change (for the better). It was exactly how Carter was elected. Change they got, for the worse. Obama, if elected, will be a big disappointment and people will want change again, and they will vote for a Republican candidate. And the history will repeat again. Obama has promised big spendings and he will make this country poorer. And by the way, the big spending in Iraq has brought peace and safety. To me, it is my money well spent!!

These very high tempered, adultereous corporate gangster,with a history of cruel , inhumane manners ,and ruthless personalities think he can compete in the political arena with Barack....Hey, a piece of advice for Mr "U"-Cant..
Havent you witnessed how Barack has "CRUSHED" even the clinton machine..? Mr "U"-Cant , let me remind you that the Presidential elections are not a mere proxy fight ... we know you're..trying to get some attention...as usuall...
not these time ... you scum-bag opportunist. ... ROFL...
.

America does need a spending spree, on education, so that individuals can make their own minds up on what is good for the country rather than rely on the expediency of billionaires.

Icahn is clearly delusional if he thinks the previous administration did a good job managing spending. Under Bush, we've lost our budget surplus and are faced, once again, with record deficits. And I'm sorry, but Obama would be saving us money by ending this very costly war in Iraq! The roll back of the tax break for the wealthy would replenish a revenue stream which was lost for 7 years. The roll back & the elimination of Iraq war spending would mean positive cash flow to be used to support the US economy. Perhaps give a tax break to the largest part of the population, the middle class!

And did Icahn really mention a "loss of confidence in the US dollar"? I've been traveling abroad for business for over a decade, and I've never seen the US dollar valued as poorly as it is now. It's been on a free fall for several years!! The US dollar is worth less than the Canadian dollar!! It now takes $1.57 to get one Euro!! Two US dollars will get you one british pound!! And we're just about even with the Swiss Franc! Where has Icahn been? Is he trying to pretend like the loss of confidence in the USD isn't a problem today? And that it will suddenly become a problem if Obama is elected? Anyone can see through his B.S.!!

People make money to get ahead in life. There's NOTHING WRONG with that. The incentive is to keep for yourself as much as you can not give it away. If you didnt take your education seriously and goofed off you are now paying the price. Why should I pay for you ??? You made a choice. If you overtax you remove the incentives that create jobs, discovery of life saving therapies and so on. Smart people invent ways to better their financial position by ingenuity and hard work. Slackers complain. They're part of the "Something for nothing" crowd which is aptly spearheaded by the DEMOCRATS. Stiffle a Democrat, ask them how they plan to pay for it. The easy answer is get the wealthy to pay for it instead of work hard and EARN IT>

The Obama-mania at its height. Keep up the good work, fellas! Don't fret when he fails to deliver

Obama is going to be prosecuted under 18 USC 1346. Evelyn Pringle has just completed her series on Obama at opednews.com. You should review the articles, and then review the discussion of 18 USC 1346 provided, in order to see for what activities Obama will be indicted:

Final Chapter - Curtain Time for Barack Obama Evelyn Pringle 05/22/2008 2
Curtain Time for Barack Obama - Part V Evelyn Pringle 05/18/2008 9
Curtain Time for Barack Obama - Part IV Evelyn Pringle 05/16/2008 22
Curtain Time for Barack Obama - Part III Evelyn Pringle 05/15/2008 11
Curtain Time for Barack Obama - Part II Evelyn Pringle 05/13/2008 15
Curtain Time For Barack Obama - Part I Evelyn Pringle 05/12/2008 33

Discussion of 18 USC 1346 from:

http://www.groom.com/_library/downloads/NAPPAArticle-Feb2006.pdf.

This article provides brief guidance as to the manner in which courts have interpreted 18 U.S.C. § 1346, which generally provides that for purposes of federal mail and wire fraud statutes (18 U.S.C. §§ 1341 and 1343, respectively), a "scheme or artifice to defraud" includes a "scheme or artifice to deprive another of the intangible right to honest services." Specifically, this article examines the manner in which courts have interpreted the broad language of § 1346 in circumstances that do not involve the explicit bribery of public officials.
I.
Background
18 U.S.C. § 1346 was enacted in 1988, for purposes of reversing the Supreme Court's decision in McNally v. U.S.,483 U.S. 350 (1987). In McNally, the Supreme Court overruled a long line of lower court decisions by holding that the federal mail and wire fraud statutes did not encompass schemes to defraud citizens of an intangible right to honest government service from pubic officers. Id. at 355. By enacting 18 U.S.C. § 1346, Congress restored "honest services" within the ambit of the federal mail and wire fraud statutes, meaning that a scheme to deprive the public of "honest services" by a public official could be punished as mail or wire fraud (assuming, of course, that such an instrumentality was used as part of the scheme or artifice).
II.
Judicial Interpretations of the "Honest Services" Fraud
A.
General Parameters of the Statute
Not surprisingly, the majority of cases that have analyzed the "honest services" fraud set forth in 18 U.S.C. § 1346 have involved the bribery of public officials, where the charge under § 1346 is in addition to other charges. However, there have been numerous prosecutions under § 1346 against public officials (and those who have corrupted public officials) for transactions that do not involve outright bribery, but which nonetheless involve the provision of cash or gifts to a public official in exchange for the public official's exercise of power on behalf of the individual or entity providing the gratuity.
Courts have recognized that the term "honest services," as used in § 1346, is incredibly broad, but the statute has survived repeated challenges asserting that it is unconstitutionally vague, with courts resorting to a "common sense" usage of the phrase "honest services." In rejecting a constitutional void-for-vagueness challenge to the statute's wording, one court opined that "[c]oncrete parameters outlining the duty of honest services should not be necessary. . . . The concept of the duty of honest services sufficiently conveys warning of the proscribed conduct when measured in terms of common understanding and practice." U.S. v. ReBrook, 837 F. Supp. 162, 171 (S.D. W. Va. 1993), aff'd. 58 F.3d 961 (4 th Cir. 1995). Another court demonstrated little patience for the defendant's void-for-vagueness challenge in the context of a kickback scheme, holding that "[i]t should be plain to ordinary people that offering and accepting large sums of money in exchange for a city councilman's vote is a type of conduct proscribed by the language of § 1346." U.S. v. Paradies, 98 F.3d 1266, 1283 (11 th Cir. 1996). Nonetheless, courts have refused to allow § 1346 to be used as a "catch-all" that subjects every unethical or illegal act to federal mail and wire fraud prosecution. See, e.g., U.S. v. Bloom, 149 F.3d 649, 654-56 (7 th
Cir. 1998) (noting, inter alia, that "not every breach of fiduciary duty works a criminal fraud"); U.S. v. Welch, 327 F.3d 1081, 1107 (10 th Cir. 2003) ("the right to honest services is not violated by every breach of contract, breach of duty, conflict of interest, or misstatement made in the course of dealing"). Recognizing the difficulty of interpreting the undefined phrase "honest services," courts have attempted to establish general criteria that must be satisfied to successfully assert an "honest services" fraud claim. One of the leading circuits interpreting the scope of the honest services fraud is the First Circuit Court of Appeals, which held that: First, . . . honest services convictions of public officials typically involve serious corruption, such as embezzlement of public funds, bribery of public officials, or the failure of public decision-makers to disclose conflicts of interest. Second, . . . the broad scope of the mail fraud statute . . . does not encompass every instance of official misconduct that results in the official's personal gain. Third, and most importantly, . . . the government must not merely indicate wrongdoing by a public official, but must also demonstrate that the wrongdoing at issue is intended to prevent or call into question the proper or impartial performance of the public servant's official duties. U.S. v. Czubinski, 106 F.3d 1069, 1076 (1 st Cir. 1997) (emphasis added) (internal citations and quotations omitted), (discussing the First Circuit's prior decision in U.S. v. Sawyer, 85 F.3d 713, 724 (1996). The Seventh Circuit has held that "[m]isuse of office (more broadly, misuse of position) for private gain is the line that separates run of the mill violations of state law fiduciary duty . . . from federal crime." U.S. v. Bloom, 149 F.3d 649, 655 (7 th Cir. 1998). The court went on to note that "in almost all of the intangible rights cases decided . . . (before McNally or since § 1346), the defendant used his office for private gain, as by accepting a bribe in exchange for official action[,]" but also noted that "[s]ecret conversion of information received in a fiduciary capacity is a form of fraud against the owner of that information." Id. Accordingly, the Seventh Circuit summarized its test for an honest services fraud as follows: "[a]n employee deprives his employer of his honest services only if he misuses his position (or the information he obtained in it) for personal gain" (emphasis added). Id. at 656-57.
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The Tenth Circuit has likewise held that cases involving § 1346 "must be read against the backdrop of the mail and wire fraud statutes, thereby requiring fraudulent intent and a showing of materiality." U.S. v. Welch, 327 F.3d 1081, 1107 (10 th Cir. 2003). However, the Tenth Circuit unequivocally rejected the Seventh Circuit's position that a public official must seek "personal gain" to violate § 1346, stating that while it was unwilling to "define the exact contours of honest services fraud or the proof necessary to sustain it . . . to require an allegation of intent to personally gain would suggest that [a defendant is] justified in using whatever means necessary to achieve [his or her] goals . . . ," which the Court was unwilling to do. B. What Constitutes an Honest Services Fraud? As noted above, the language of § 1346 is not helpful in categorizing what specific conduct by a public official is prohibited, and courts have been unwilling to set forth a litany of proscribed acts, instead setting forth general parameters that must be satisfied to successfully assert an honest services fraud. It should be noted, however, that Justice Stevens, in his dissent in McNally (vindicated by Congress' reversal of McNally), stated the following: In the public sector, judges, State Governors, chairmen of political parties, state cabinet officers, city alderman, Congressmen, and many other state and federal officials have been convicted of defrauding citizens of their right to honest services of their governmental officials. In most of these cases, the officials have secretly made governmental decisions with the objective of benefiting themselves or promoting their own interests, instead of fulfilling their legal commitment to provide the citizens of the State or local government with their loyal service and honest government. McNally, 483 U.S. at 362-63 (emphasis added). The basic concept on an honest services fraud "is that the public is not getting what it expects and deserves: honest, faithful, disinterested service from a public official. This concept

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applies whether the official is bribed or fails to disclose a conflict of interest." U.S. v. Mangiardi, 962 F. Supp. 49, 51 (M.D. Penn. 1997). Addressing what constitutes an honest services fraud in the context of a union officer's duty toward his union, a court held that "'honest services' contemplates that in rendering some particular service . . ., the defendant was conscious of the fact that his actions were something less than in the best interests of the employer—or that he consciously contemplated or intended such actions. For example, something close to bribery." U.S. v. Boyd, 309 F. Supp.2d 908, 913 (S.D. Tex. 2004). Underlying § 1346 is the notion that "a public official acts as 'trustee for the citizens and the State . . . and thus owes the normal fiduciary duties of a trustee, e.g., honesty and loyalty to them. Theft of honest services occurs when a public official strays from this duty.’" U.S. v. Sawyer, 239 F.3d 31, 39 (1 st Cir. 2001).
When a government officer decides how to proceed in an official endeavor—as when a legislator decides how to vote on an issue—his constituents have a right to have their best interests form the basis of that decision. If the official instead secretly makes his decision based on his own personal interests—as when an official accepts a bribe or personally benefits from an undisclosed conflict of interest—the official has defrauded the public of his honest services. U.S. v. Lopez-Lukis, 102 F.3d 1164, 1169 (11 th Cir. 1999). According to the First Circuit, a public official can steal honest services from his public employer in two ways: (1) the official can be influenced or otherwise improperly affected in the performance of his duties, or (2) the official can fail to disclose a conflict of interest, resulting in a personal gain. U.S. v. Woodward, 149 F.3d 46, 57 (1 st Cir. 1998) (relying upon the court's earlier decision in U.S. v. Sawyer, 85 F.3d 713, 724 (1 st Cir. 1996).
In contrast, an employee's failure to perform his job adequately, or his failure to adhere to the government's code of conduct concerning permissible work-related activities, is not sufficient to Specific Instances Where Honest Services Fraud Has Been Found Most of the honest services fraud cases brought pursuant to § 1346 have involved, not surprisingly, clear-cut cases of bribery or the payment of "kickbacks" to public officials who exercised their influence on behalf of the person or entity paying such gratuity. Considering that bribery cases tend to be "clear cut," in that there is, at a minimum, an exchange of something of value in return for an official action, the matters below involve less certain areas, where honest services fraud has been found (or alleged) notwithstanding the lack of a clear cut exchange of valuable consideration.
Recent—and Well-Publicized—Cases Involving Claims of Honest Services Fraud
(a)
U.S. v. Abramoff
A recent case asserting honest services fraud involves disgraced Washington lobbyist Jack Abramoff. On January 3, 2006, Abramoff pleaded guilty to a three-count information charging him with conspiracy, honest services mail fraud, and tax evasion. The honest services fraud charges to which Abramoff pleaded guilty are extensive—but essentially boil down to his failure to honestly serve his clients, his employer, and his attempts to corrupt public officials. Abramoff's plea agreement, entered in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, is available at http: //news.findlaw. com/usatoday/docs/abramoff/usabrmff10306plea.pdf (last visited January 16, 2006).
With respect to the honest services fraud against his clients, Abramoff admitted that he used his influence with Native American tribes that he represented on gaming matters to cause them to hire (at above-market prices) "grass roots" and "public relations" firms in which Abramoff had an undisclosed ownership interest, and from which he was being paid 50 percent of net profits, in addition to his lobbying fee from the tribes. Moreover, Abramoff admitted that he provided lobbying services to a Native American tribe in Texas that was seeking to reopen its gaming operations, without revealing that he had been paid millions of dollars by a Louisiana tribe to oppose all gaming legislation under consideration by the Texas legislature. Abramoff avoided disclosing the clear conflict of interest to his law firm by telling the Texas tribe that he was providing his lobbying services free of charge, while he simultaneously engineered the tribe's retention of a "grass roots" firm in which Abramoff had an undisclosed financial interest, and which paid Abramoff $1.8 million in fees as a result of the Texas tribe's retention.
ii.
Honest Services Fraud With Respect to Abramoff's Employer
During the time that Abramoff was employed by a law firm, Abramoff agreed to represent a wireless company in securing a license to install wireless telephone infrastructure in the House of Representatives. Rather than entering into a retainer relationship with Abramoff's law firm, Ambramoff instructed the wireless company to pay his fee to a non-profit entity that Abramoff founded, and that he used as a vehicle to fund trips and gifts for the politically influential. Abramoff did not disclose this arrangement to his employer, thus depriving his employer of fees to which it was entitled, which Abramoff admitted was an honest services fraud against his employer.
iii.
Honest Services Fraud—Corruption of Public Officials
The lengthiest portion of Abramoff's plea agreement concerns the allegations that Abramoff engaged in a conspiracy to commit honest services fraud by corrupting public officials by providing "a stream of things of value . . . in exchange for a series of official acts and influence and agreements to provide official actions and influence." (Abramoff Plea Agreement, ¶ 32). The things of value to which Abramoff pled guilty to providing included "foreign and domestic travel, golf fees, frequent meals, entertainment, election support for candidates for government office, employment for relatives of officials, and campaign contributions." (Id.). Specifically, Abramoff pled guilty to providing "Representative #1" (since identified as Representative Bob Ney (R-OH)) and "Staffer #1" with such lavish items as all-expenses-paid trips to the Northern Marianas Islands, Scotland, and to Tampa, Florida (for the Super Bowl). Other things of value provided by Abramoff to Representative #1 and Staffer #1, however, were not so lavish—such as "comped" meals at Abramoff's Washington, DC restaurant—and included items that some may consider "normal" business expenses when it comes to politics, such as contributions to Representative #1's campaign committee and contributions to the Republican National Party. Abramoff's plea agreement states that he provided such things of value in exchange for public officials': agreements to support and pass legislation, agreements to place statements in the Congressional Record, agreements to contact personnel in the United States Executive Branch agencies and offices to influence decisions of those agencies and offices, meetings with Abramoff's . . . clients, and awarding contracts for services with . . . Abramoff's law firms. Id. at ¶ 33.
(b)
San Diego Pension Fund
Another very recent case involving allegations of honest services fraud in the context of public officials concerns the indictment of the former top executive of the San Diego City Employees Retirement System, the Retirement System's lawyer, and three former trustees of the Retirement System. The indictment, announced on January 6, 2006, alleges that the Retirement System's executive, its lawyer, and its former trustees committed honest services fraud by conspiring to approve enhanced retirement benefits for City of San Diego workers—including themselves—in exchange for allowing the City to underfund the Retirement System. According to the indictment, by early 2002, the Retirement System's funding status was approaching only 82.3 percent, and, at such level, a "funding trigger" would have been tripped, requiring the City of San Diego to make a massive cash infusion to the Retirement System. As the funding trigger was about to tripped, the City negotiated a labor agreement that enhanced
pension benefits for members of the municipal labor unions (including the indicted Retirement System employees), and the City advised the Board of the Retirement System that the increased pension benefits were "contingent upon" obtaining relief from the funding trigger that was about to be tripped. The indictment alleges that the indicted officials agreed to reduce the City's funding obligations with respect to the Retirement System, and that the vote to approve such relief was linked to the enhanced pension benefits that the officials would receive. According to the indictment, such conduct constitutes a conspiracy to deprive citizens of San Diego with their intangible right to honest services from public officials.
2.
"Pay-to-Play" Schemes Involving Campaign Contributions 3 The indictment is available at: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/pension/images/060106fedpensionindictment.pdf
In U.S. v. Troutman, 814 F.2d 1428 (10 th Cir. 1987), the Tenth Circuit addressed a "pay- to-play" scheme involving the payment of campaign contributions by a bank for consideration for state business, which the court held to be violative of the Hobbes Act, 18 U.S.C. § 1951 (extortion). (It should be noted that the defendant was not charged with committing an honest services fraud, even though such a claim was viable at the time of the defendant's arrest and trial). At issue in Troutman was the Investment Officer of New Mexico, who advised a bank bidding for state business that it had to contribute to a fundraiser for the Governor of New Mexico. The United States successfully prosecuted the Investment Officer for extortion, and, on appeal, the Tenth Circuit affirmed the conviction, noting that "[a]n extortion effort made under the color of official right is described as a public official's attempt to obtain money not due him or his office." Id. at 1456. The court went on to cite several cases from various circuits, holding, inter alia, that "[t]he coercive solicitation of political contributions is within the realm of actions that are illegal under the Hobbes act." Id. (quoting U.S. v. Cerilli, 603 F.2d 415, 421 (3d Cir. 1979), and citing U.S. v. Dozier, 672 F.2d 531, 540 (5 th Cir. 1982), and U.S. v. Williams, 621 F.2d 123, 124 (5 th Cir. 1980)). In U.S. v. Kemp, 379 F. Supp. 2d 690, 697 (E.D. Penn. 2005), the court upheld the conviction of the City Treasurer of Philadelphia, who was convicted of extortion and honest services fraud based upon his acceptance of bribes from people doing business with the City. In upholding Kemp's conviction for honest services fraud, the court noted that "there were specific intercepted communications where [a co-conspirator] and Kemp made agreements that because
certain individuals did—or in some cases did not—make the requested contributions to either political activities or charitable events, they were, or were not, going to receive City business." Id. Another case asserted an honest services fraud claim in the context of a "pay-to-play" scheme, although the scheme was not characterized as such. In Castro v. U.S., 248 F. Supp. 2d 1170 (S.D. Fla. 2003), the court addressed a "pay-to-play" kickback scheme in which judges serving on the Dade County (Florida) Circuit Court assigned criminal cases to selected defense attorneys who agreed to pay the assigning judges a percentage of the fees earned from each assigned case. The U.S. prosecuted the attorneys who participated in the scheme, alleging that the attorneys attempted to defraud the State of Florida of the judges' honest services. The court held that the defendants had committed an honest services fraud, noting that public officials have inherent fiduciary duties to the public, and that violations of such inherent fiduciary duty are proper predicates to convictions under § 1346, even if an underlying state law or regulation was not violated. …

Face it. When it comes to paying taxes. "Rich people" will be any one with an alarm clock if the democrats control both the presidency and the congress. Not the republicans have done much better over the last 8 years.

I can't wait for Mr. Obama to become president. Then I want to hear all of you "change" people scream bloody murder when the same people your candidate wants to tax till the cows come home move more and more and more jobs offshore to maintain a competitive place in the world. Don't forget that among the same people you want to tax into oblivion are the same people that employ you now. To actually believe that they are going to just capitulate and pay outrageously increased tax bills and there not be any fallout from it that will directly affect each and every one of us in the middle is just plain naive. So lets tax those that pay most of the taxes in the country even more. When those companies start to slash their payrolls to maintain their positions in the world market and YOUR job goes to Mumbai, or Manila, or wherever, then lets hear what you have to say. You don't seem to realize that those amongst us making the 200K and better have the funds and abilities to move those funds around and limit its exposure to excessive taxation. Hello!!!

1) NO ONES SAYING THAT WEALTHY PEOPLE SHOULD BE PUNISHED, BUT THERE IS A TAX BRACKET THAT SHOULD BE IN PLACE; WHICH SHOULD BALANCE THE ECONOMY. 2) THE RECESSION THAT USA IS IN TODAY IS RESULT OF A GASOLINE WAR, WHO BENEFITS FROM THE WAR? OUR FEARLESS LEADER AND ALL OF HIS WEALTHY ASSOCIATES? 3) YOU SAY PUNISH THE WEALTHY BECAUSE THEY WERE PROSPEROUS IN THEIR EFFORTS? THEIR EFFORTS HAVE PLACED JOBS IN OVERSEA LOCATIONS, PAYING SLIM TO NOTHING TO LABORERS OVERSEAS. SO ASK YOURSELF WHO CAUSED "loss of confidence in the dollar"

You know, all you Obama supporters out there keep talking about the millions of dollars being spent in the Iraqi war. Have you forgotten history already?????

Feb. 20, 2008, reported from a newspaper in Brittain. 3.5 million dollars wired to Antoin Rezko (Obama's former Campaign Bankroller, currently in jail) on April 3, 2004, from a Beirut bank account belonging to Iraqi born British Billionaire Nadhmi Auchi. Whom, by the way earned quite a substantial part of his fourtune selling weapons to Suddam Hussein of Iraq.

Try telling me that both my son's and daughter could have been killed while serving "you people" with those same weapons!!!!

This is more than a mother, father, son, daughter,aunt, uncle or grandparents should have to think about.

I for one, will never vote Obama.....

Glad my children came home safely.

ichan deserves his ass punched in, wasn't this the punk who said the economic fallout from an iraqi invassion would produce 5-10% growth rates for years to come? what an idiot...or he's on someone's payroll.

1) NO ONES SAYING THAT WEALTHY PEOPLE SHOULD BE PUNISHED, BUT THERE IS A TAX BRACKET THAT SHOULD BE IN PLACE; WHICH SHOULD BALANCE THE ECONOMY. 2) THE RECESSION THAT USA IS IN TODAY IS RESULT OF A GASOLINE WAR, WHO BENEFITS FROM THE WAR? OUR FEARLESS LEADER AND ALL OF HIS WEALTHY ASSOCIATES? 3) YOU SAY PUNISH THE WEALTHY BECAUSE THEY WERE PROSPEROUS IN THEIR EFFORTS? THEIR EFFORTS HAVE PLACED JOBS IN OVERSEA LOCATIONS, PAYING SLIM TO NOTHING TO LABORERS OVERSEAS. SO ASK YOURSELF WHO CAUSED "loss of confidence in the dollar"

This Icahn guy is sweating that he won't get more tax cuts from gov. Wow, how surprising!!! This greedy guy just wants more and more. Talking about devaluation of dollars and spending. Geez. Billionaire bitching like a 3 year old. I want more candies!!!

Yes, I like Buffett.

Mr. Hanna of Dallas, you write like you are part of the 26% still supporting Georgie-boy. If you would spend a little time looking at videos of 9/11 and asking questions like, where are the airplanes that supposedly flew into the Pentagon and into the ground in PA, or watched the series of explosions as the Towers came down, or recalled where Georgie was doing the Puddin-in-Pie routine with kindergartners and his reaction to hearing about the Towers, ....maybe then you might say, "Oh, my! Has someone been lying to me?" I sorta doubt you would say that but, hey, have fun in your ignorance. Maybe you think there are WMD in Iraq, too?

We, who pay taxes, and watch our men and women die or get injured in Iraq and who are now commuting on $4 gas and drinking milk that is $4/1/2 gallon, we know where the money is going. To Iraq, Afghanistan, and all of the 130 countries around the globe, including "The Compound" in Paraguay as the US consolidates its hegemony over the world.

The trouble is, I don't remember ever wanting us to rule the world. I certainly don't see that we are superior or have a superior culture...in fact, at this point, I think we are falling apart economically, socially, educationally, etc.

The issue most certainly is who is going to rule...and it seems the corporate bodies, the military and the people who make and sell arms of war. And all the problems seem to lie at the feet of people who want to rule and get wealthy.

It is not a pleasant task to talk with my grandchildren when they want to know why the US has these problems.

Is there a solution? No, not without getting rid of powermonger, the warmongers, the hegemonists.

I thought it interesting Myanmar has refused our aid due to "strings attached". Bet those strings had to do with building new military bases or prisons on their grounds. I might like that old general. He may be the only one in the whole damned world to tell us "NO" and mean it.

The war belongs to the people who profit from it. Big oil and the military industrial complex. Tax em all to hell!

A couple of centuries back John Adam's shared the greatest truth about economics, This can be found in his book "The Wealth of Nations" for many of us
it's no secret that the lower classes support the higher class. What is amazing and
astonishing is that is has been like this for centuries, many of the well kept secrets
of which John Adams writes are the very reason why (investor Carl Icahn) would have a fit and would not want Obama as president.. Notice the emphasis on Investor, sure he has a reason to be upset at the fact that Obama would hurt his investments. Simple math....If an investor is making a stink about Obama hurting the U.S Market......what is he investing in or on......whatever it is, that Obama plans to do......it's going to hurt HIS POCKET....simple math people.

A couple of centuries back John Adam's shared the greatest truth about economics, This can be found in his book "The Wealth of Nations" for many of us
it's no secret that the lower classes support the higher class. What is amazing and
astonishing is that is has been like this for centuries, many of the well kept secrets
of which John Adams writes are the very reason why (investor Carl Icahn) would have a fit and would not want Obama as president.. Notice the emphasis on Investor, sure he has a reason to be upset at the fact that Obama would hurt his investments. Simple math....If an investor is making a stink about Obama hurting the U.S Market......what is he investing in or on......whatever it is, that Obama plans to do......it's going to hurt HIS POCKET....simple math people.

I never heard of Carl Icahn but he is totally wrong about Obama's economic policies. I honestly believe that he will do a much better job in managing the country's finances than Bush or McCain

I've been watching Carl Icahn for a while. He is all for himself. Just like Hillary. When he realized that yahoo stocks were down, he went on a spree to grab as much as he can and then tried to bully Yahoo. His hope was that yahoo will give in and then he can cash in a few dollars per share by making it easy for Microsoft to grab Yahoo. What has he proposed to save the US economy. Nothng. Nada. Zippo. He is of course worried that he will have to pay more taxes if Obama becomes president.

i dont think this icahn guy knows what he is talking about. just wondering how he managed to make his billions

either way I look at it ... we're screwed big time!!

we are deep in doo doo...

Oh grief! The problem with our goverment is not enough income(we are collecting more money to the coffers than ever!) The problem is our wasteful spending and inefficiency and pork.(see recent 300 billion farm bill).Both parties feel free to dole out our money to their favorite pet projects and supporters.As far as taxing the "rich",as per my last info 2% of the population pay 75% of the total taxes,and their tax rate is a higher %age of those of less income.Please quit your blame game you whiners.Until we have term limits and responsible caps on spending you will (all of us) will will see our American Dream will go down the rat hole of big government. Show me a tax and a program any politician is glad to enact. Thomas Jefferson would roll over in his grave regarding the graft and wastefullness in our government.

$2.5 trillion deficit, mired in costly war, people losing their homes and skyrocketing fuel prices is what Icahnomics gets you. As far as I'm concerned, what's bad for Icahn is good for America. I trust Buffett over Icahn any day.

We let an "idiot" into the White House, and now we're in a position where we have lost ourselves in war, debt, and public disgrace. Go figure: Who could do worse?

Carl who..?? Who is this guy? This is probably the guy who fits the proverbial adage, "head in the sand" for the past eight years. Give me a break, Obama could no more wreck the economy than the so-called president we currently have. What perplexes me even more is that it appears that he's more concerned about paying a few more hundred dollars a year on taxes. Something as simple as this,... he going to allow this to get his under shorts in a twist! Get a grip Carl!

Ninnies who complain about people making 200K have no clue about economics anyway and never likely to reach that level of income so quite naturally they favor Obama the socialist and foreign policy naif who rails about the Iraq war but would happily invade Israel if his foreign policy adviser Samantha Power has her way. Icahn is right about Obama being dead wrong. Obama as President will be a disaster not only for America but the world but then again he has as much chance as Kerry, Dukakis had of becoming president - thank goodness for that.

WOW...one of the candidates campaign in is the red...one is in the green to me that is a sign of who has the better judgement

Franzua- It's Adam Smith not John Smith. Before you go off on your rhetorical "koolaid drinking" rant at least get the facts straight.

I don't know if Mr. Icahn has heard but John McCain said he didn't know much about economics either, that means he wouldn't be a good president. You don't expect candidates to know everything. I think Obama will assemble the right people around him who knows what they are doing.

Icahn shows why he's an idiot and Buffett isn't.

Someone tell Icahn there is no RELATIONSHIP between taxing rich individuals earning $200K and above and Confidence in the Dollar.

Icahn is a corporate raider who deserves to get shellacked by an administration with an attorney general who will uphold the laws that Icahn has eluded.

Mr. Iachan is seeing this whole thing from the zionist perspective. Most Jews (leaving aside 45% of the worldly young folks with vision) are NOT going to vote or support Obama. They would rather continue the occupation of Palestine, and build settlements in illegally captured lands, which Obama would help stop, because that would be an American thing to do. Unfortunately the zionist wishes and American prosperity and security is at odds. These Jews would rather wreck America, and bring along more 9-11s, than have a just and peaceful solution in the middle east -- giving back illegaly occupied lands to the Palestinians. Unfotunately Jews in America is keeping this problem alive more than the extremists Jews that settle in Palestinian lands. Perhaps Mr. Iachan is funneling his wealth to illegal settlements in the West Bank!

It is easy enough to blame the rich, or blame the poor. If we want change in this country, we must hold our elected officials resposible for their choices. I am especially thinking of congresspeople! Bush never would have gotten away with all he did in his eight years in office if the congress didn't let him do it. People are too focused on the president. He is not the only one responsible for this mess!

Also, those who are saying that the poor are worthless obviously don't know any poor people. What would you say to a disabled man with a college degree who puts out hundreds of job applications per year, only to continue working a part time job at minimum wage (because no one will hire him)? I know such a person, and it makes me sick that he has to deal with this attitude from people.

I agree with E. A. Greber who posted earlier today "The Buffett/Ichan comments on Obama were too short and general to be useful to anyone." Knowing the type of reporting that is so prevelant these days, they are probably a little out of context too. But Obama WILL destroy the economy by socializing medicine

How does this end up on GOOGLE NEWS? This is not NEWS in any way. This is GOSSIP.

Apparently current administration "print and spend" policy bring a great confidence in the dollar, which is why the oil is $130 per barrel.

Freaking Moron Icahn. First lesson in business: "what's the next best alternative?" Hmmmm.. McCain and Clinton both endorsing a ridiculous gas tax holiday, and McCain admitting.. ADMITTING that he does not understand economics and thinks interest rates should be 0%! WHOAH! Does he know what that would do? I'll take Buffett's understanding and judgment ANY DAY over anyone's. He made his money understanding people and fundamentals of basic business over decades - not flash in the pan luck. He's a genius at judgment. He predicted the eventual fall of the dollar and the perils of our trade deficits. He smartly avoided every bubble recently, including the internet bubble. The situation we are in proves that Icahn-type trickle down (piss on the poor) econ doesn't work.

You know, I see people bitching all the time about "tax on the rich" and "why punish the rich"?

Look, it's not a punishment, it should be seen as a privilege. Ben Franklin, who certainly worked his way up the ladder from nothing, was adamant about the responsibilities of those who had benefitted the most from society. As long as they are handled responsibly (something that I haven't seen in the past 7+ years), then I don't mind paying more. I'm lucky - I have good skills, a good job, and I worked hard to get there. It's my responsibility (see a theme here?) to contribute more to my society. I can afford it.

The real problem is that people can't be trusted to do the right thing, that's why we have government in the first place.

Elect Senator Obama if you want a socialist as president.

The problem with the economy is the Democrat and Republican politician for life. Fix the economy, purge Washington of all those loosers and have term limits.

By the way, world war 2 was over more than 60 years ago; when do we pull the troops out of Gremany and Japan?

For all those who wouldn't mind paying extra tax; go ahead and send your money into the IRS. The'll be more than happy to accept the donation!

Icahn developed a reputation as a ruthless corporate raider after his hostile takeover of TWA in 1985. The result of that takeover was Icahn systematically stripping TWA of its assets and selling them off.

This guy doesn't want to vote Obama?

Now this is a guy we definitely want a "tax takeover" on.

Imagine all the lives that were effected by this guy's ruthless business practices.

I'm glad he's not associated with Obama's campaign financing.

My choice is with richest person in the world Buffet. Icahn says Obama does not know about economics, but the alternative a ex military veteran knows even less. We will be in a war and recession for another 4 years if we elect McSame. The war is what got us in this mess in the first place spending a billion dollars a week on an unwinnable war has devalued the dollar caused the world and the US consumer to loss confidence because our government is NOT doing the right thing. I agree with Buffet and Obama we need to change and start doing the right thing.

We have a saying in Omaha: "If it's good enough for Warren, it's good enough for me."

From what I am reading, I sense that most of you are Democrats. It must be nice to sit and write about this subject, when it is obvious that most of you know little or nothing about what you are writing. You had better treat the wealthy better, stop the whiniing and read over the tenth commandment which addresses envy. There is an old saying, "Money goes where it is treated best". Tax them higher and more of you will lose your jobs.
My comment to Lauren Miller's anti semitic diatribe is: your knowledge of mid east history is woefully lacking. Did you drop out of college during or after the first quarter?

Icahan may be rich but he is blind to the realities facing America today. Look at the inflation! the devaluation of the dollar! the continuos war in Iraq consumming millions of tax payers dollars! the economy he is talking about is in a mess right now!! America does not support your narrow views... C'on give Obama the chance to change our beloved country.

Blind commenters, like Icahn please try to think twice. We are really tired of your garbage ideas. Obama will spend more money for health care, education, alternative energy which is all for our people our doctors, engineers, and teachers. Yes, he will and that is what we need. It is the people's money, and it should spent back to the American people, not for Iraq, Icahn, and the bushes.

Because of your ill-policy, we have spent billions of tax payer's money to produce, and strengthen our enemies all over the world.

Hmmm...I am rolling with Warren Buffet's choice.

What amazes me is how much conservatives supposedly care about govt fiscal responsibility---but which party has darn near bankrupted the country, has us in debt to the Chinese and has completely run the dollar into the ground....THE GOP/REPUBLICANS.

OBAMA 2008!! He believes in pay as you go and is the best choice!

Oh, come on! Icahn doesn't think Obama really understands economics. What about McCain and Clinton? Even McCain admitted to not understand economics. I believe his words were, “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” And what about Clinton and her proposal to freeze subprime interest rates for five years. So I guest that makes McCain and Clinton "terrible" Presidents too. He has to come up with a more concrete reason than that. Like Icahn said, he should not get involved in politics.

Scuse me, but Obama's statement about the 200,000 did NOT say anything at all about "raising taxes" on people making that much. Look at it again -- it was raising the cap on FICA earnings. Know what? Folks making $24,000 a year pay just as high a percentage of FICA as do those making $175,000.

Raising the cap can postpone raising the percentage for FICA -- what it means if that if I should ever earn more than $200,000 that portion above the line is immune from FICA. Doubt, frankly, that I ever get to that level.

And estate taxes? Folks, please. Look at the minimum limits. How many of you have an estate netting more than $3 million dollars? Nobody in my family, drat it.

And last point: it is NOT a death tax. Hell's bells -- if you die, nobody is going to follow you into the grave to make you pay taxes! It is an inheritance tax, and it means that folks like Paris Hilton would have to pay taxes just like folks punching a time clock. I had a friend once (a Democrat, at that) who inherited $12 million... and guess what? She had to pay taxes on it, on money that she had done nothing to earn. Which was fine with her, and with me.

What's the alternative Mr. Icahn? You think of the three people anyone else has an alternative that is better? Of three candidates, only BO has the judgement, character and humility to seek the best advise for the country... Ofcourse, a gas-tax holiday may seem a better alternative to you...

So many people foolishly thinking inside boxes
Whose "war" it is is not defined by how much money they make--although they DO make sums off of it that are off-the-charts. Yes, they make WAY more than $200K. In fact, they make so much that it does not matter who is President--THEY are the ones who decide, when, where, an how wars will be fought, and they, through any number of various means, see to it that ALL "sides" are supported, so that, whomever happens to "win" (= gain control over the populace) wil be inclined (indebted) to facilitate the extraction of resources from, and acces to markets in, the controlled terrritories, using the labors of the populace.

Anyway, forget this distraction about tax cuts. Remove tax "breaks" for multinational corporations, etc., and stop producing $10-million bombers, etc. There is an old saying: "There are two ways to be rich. One is to be born rich. The other is not to spend very much money." We can have it BOTH ways. Our collective income taxes makes the Congressional budget born rich. Prioritize how we spend it in ways that increase our well-being, instead of indebting our great-grand children, destroying ecosystems the world-round, and littering other countires with uranium-laced ordinance cartridges that will cause birth defects for 10,000 years!

Whose advise would you rather take: Warren Buffet's or Corporate Raider Carl Icahn?

It's Warren Buffet for me!

Mr. Ichan made his fortune by financing take overs of sound companies with junk bonds, leaving them deeply in debt, and often bankrupt. The people who bought bonds for investment were left holding the bag. He is precisely the type of person Bush tax cuts were designed to benefit. Restoring taxes on incomes over three hundred thousand a year will weaken the dollar? What planet is he from, the dollar is weak because federal spending is so much higher than income the government actually takes in and our balance of payments is so out of whack. Raising taxes inflationary? In economics 1-A you are taught that raising taxes is one way for a government to nip inflation; it has the opposite effect of what Ichan said. But what do you expect? When you make billions by destroying healthy companies, how much integrity can someone have?

Really interesting,
I agree for the most part that Icahn is doing this primarily for financial reasons. Supporting obama would cause higher tax codes for corporations. Key word corporations. THere is no tax code for the 1040 IRS form. Income TaxI is fraud and is not in the US constitution. However Corperate profits can be taxed and OBama will tax a much higher amount to the evil anvils like Icahn and other greedy Corperations. This is why I think Icahn disfavors Obama. Regarding to Buffett, I don't know his reasons for Supporting OBama. It is true that Obama isn't the man on the white horse or Black jesus. He is also controlled by the most powerful entity on earth in modern history. However, even they can not dictate when he can pee. and when

I love admire and read every word uttered by Buffett and Icahn as investors, but Carl, like many elderly Jewish Americans is scared of Obama for reasons other than his economic policies, which will undoubtedly be more fiscally conservative and forward looking than his predecessors' when he moves into the White House next year..