Clinton's West Virginia voters still are believers
By Sasha Issenberg, Globe Staff
MONTGOMERY, W. Va. -- The West Virginians who showed up to vote for Hillary Clinton at the Montgomery City Hall dutifully cited her campaign’s talking points -- experience, health care, and a return to the good old days -- but it was her opponent’s mantra that appeared most to motivate them: hope.
“I don’t believe it’s over,” said Bob Kirk, a 58-year old retiree who had worked a DuPont chemical plant. “It seems like an uphill fight, but why should it be over before everybody gets to vote?”
Across West Virginia, Clinton’s supporters turned out in record numbers to vote for a candidate they had been told ould emerge from their state with a hollow victory: no matter how large a landslide they delivered for Clinton here, most of her supporters conceded, she was unlikely to win the nomination.
“I don’t see how she can. There’s too many delegates the other way,” said Charlie Davis, 49, a director of residential living at West Virginia University Institute of Technology. “It’s fine to tell her that, but it’s also fine to say: stay in the race and let’s acknowledge Obama to make sure he’s the right person.”
Supporters at her election-night headquarters chanted “It’s not over!” when television networks declared her the victor in the state that her husband won twice but a pair of Democrats have failed to carry since. “There’s that whole mystique about the Clintons -- they can pull anything out, so it’s not over,” said Susan Kincaid, 52, a high-school English teacher.
In her closing days in West Virginia, Clinton tried to not only exploit that mystique, but make voters complicit in her struggle. “In Washington, some people say…that your voice doesn’t really count,” said a Clinton radio ad. “Tuesday, we can show ‘em.”
Exit polls showed that West Virginia Democrats responded, with 78 percent of those in favor of Clinton staying in the race.
Montgomery is a small town 30 miles southeast of Charleston on the Kanawha River, bisected by a railroad line along which freight trains interrupt pedestrians’ conversations during the day and newcomers’ sleep patterns at night. For voters here, the candidate who began her campaign declaring she was “in it to win it” became a defiant symbol of refusing to concede defeat.
“I really don’t think it’s over til it’s over,” said Lee Thompson, 49, a truck driver. ''If you’re telling everybody that West Virginia votes don’t count, you’re defeating yourself.”
Even a Republican who voted for John McCain accused the press of unfairly targeting Clinton by “trying to put her under before her time,” as Wilma Robbins put it. “I think she still has a chance and I hope she can,” said Robbins, a 59-year old pastor at the town’s United Methodist church who described Clinton with the same favorable adjective she applied to McCain -- “solid” -- and said she would consider voting for the New York senator in the general election.
“I believe it’s a shoo-in for McCain because Obama supporters are not going to vote for Hillary and Hillary supporters are not going to vote for Obama,” said Kirk. “At first, he seemed like a neat person, but then the flag pin and the pastor -- it didn’t ring a bell. Well, it did -- an alarm bell.”
In a state where nearly everyone still seems to carry a party registration handed down since the New Deal -- “Oh, God, Democrat! You’d get smacked around here if…” one woman exclaimed when an exit pollster asked for her party -- some of those cheering Clinton to keep on going said they did so because an Obama victory would force them to vote Republican.
“If he wins, I’m definitely going McCain,” said William Kimberly, 40, who said he does “odd things here and there” for a living. “I don’t know -- just because of her husband. He did a pretty good job -- except for a little personal thing.”
Aware they were participating in a contest likely to bear symbolic power than electoral influence, voters kept their eyes on the general election. Backers of both Clinton and Obama said they were fond of the idea of a ticket combining the two -- “a great team, if they can settle their differences,” said coal-industry employee Greg Ingram -- while one said she liked both candidates but picked Clinton with an eye to the general election.
“I feel she has a better chance in November than Obama. I think there’s still a lot of racism in this country and I think that would hinder him,” said Kincaid.
Those Clinton supporters who did not preach raw defiance or cool strategic detachment could resort only to zen. “That’s part of the process,” Davis said of the primary calendar. “You go to the convention and see what happens.”
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Maybe in West VA, there's still a lot of racism... these people are trying to vote for Bill Clinton. It's very sad, very scary. Do we help them by putting more colleges in their area, or jobs, or what? I can't even say they acted like they're a part of the last century, more like the century before. I'm sure they have cable, I'm sure they have internet, what's the hurdle, what's the barrier? Why are they so far behind, and in so many ways?
Instant gratification is good. Yet the Hawaii State Democratic Party Convention, which elects three of the super delegates, meets later this month. Why would George Ariyoshi, a former Hawaii governor, vie for the national committee if the Kal Leo has already pronounced the presidential race a wrap?
Running against an incumbent president, George H. W. Bush, in 1992, Democrats needed a standard-bearer, like, yesterday. Tom Harkin dropped out after Super Tuesday, and the 19 national labor leaders who had backed him quickly came over to Bill Clinton.
Adlai Stevenson won the nomination on the third ballot at the national convention of 1952. Estes Kefauver was a senator from Tennessee who opposed the concentration of U.S. economic and political power under the control of a wealthy, exclusive elite. He was nominated for Vice-President on the 1952 Democratic ticket. He also won on a third ballolt.
What excitement there was in the 1956 Democratic Convention came when Stevenson decided that the convention's delegates would choose his running mate. The two leading contenders were Senator Kefauver (aiming for a repeat), and Senator John F. Kennedy. At one point, Kennedy was within 15 votes of winning.
Everything dire that might be predicted in an editorial page happened to the Democrats in 1948. Hubert Horatio Humphrey helped found the Americans for Democratic Action in 1947. At the 1948 Democratic Convention, as a neophyte Senator, he spoke out for a successful civil rights platform; consequently, the Dixiecrats withdrew. Harry S Truman didn't stand a chance, according to the pundits.
Please remember that, when Hillary triumphantly holds up a copy of the New York Times with a banner headline, McCain Wins!
Truly Yours, Richard Thompson, 209A Hale Kuahine, East-West Road, Honolulu 96848 Tel: (808) 944-7960
Hillary needs to stay in the race, because she's the stronger candidate, Obama is only ahead because of his eloquent speaking skills, and the massive Black and Young vote, but lacking experience or substance to his messages, the Republicans are going to eat him alive due to his lack of substance, debating skills, and experience, I hope the Super delegates don't make a fatal mistake and put Obama up to be our Nominee, we will surely lose, and will also be calling McCain Mr. President in 2009. I will in no way vote for Obama if he's the nominee, I don't care if Hillary supports him or not, I have left this party and became an Independent, but will still be voting for Hillary as an write-in candidate if she’s not the nominee, but no Obama, no way no how, Hillary stay in the race you’re a fighter not a quitter, don't let the Obama his Staff, Supporters, or the gender-biased media discourage or pressure you to quit, you can still win this thing, I still have some hope that you could pull this off.
You mean they still are bigots.
Hillary is not the one that says one thing and does another (flag pin and pastor wright - two things Barack has completely flip-flopped on), rather Hillary says she's a fighter and she's going to win.... And that's exactly what she's going to do!!
Go Hillary!!
When the choice is between a black candidate and a woman candidate, the West Virginia voters chose the woman. If the choice were a woman vs. a white man in November, does anyone think those same voters would stick with Hilary Clinton? The argument that Hilary can carry white blue-collar voters doesn't hold for the general election. There is a hierarchy of bigotry
There is a simple, practical reason why Hillary is still running: she needs to collect enough donations to recoup some of her campaign's $20 Mil in debt. She would be unable to receive donations the moment she brings the campaign to an end.
That's why Clinton needs "believers", because only true believers will continue giving her money.
West Virginians are being played by a skilled political operator. Congrats to them and to Hillary on her "win".
I'm speechless! (almost) The idea of weighing the merits of a candidate on whether or not he wears a FLAG pin is beyond me.
Clinton's West Virginia voters use her campaign talking points as a front to, "Im not voting for a black man." The demographic of white, non-college educated people make up the majority of WV. This state has a bad reputation (of inbred, idiot hicks) for a good reason... some idiot residents aren't voting for Obama because they think he is Muslim, and equate him to Bin Laden. The election is over. However, some people are still stuck in the 1950s because they think a half-black man running for President is a threat to their livelyhood.
This is an email I just sent to Larry King Live:
You keep talking about Clinton wanting to change the rules, but you only seem to acknowledge the rules that benefit Obama. Here's a rule for ya - the DNC has NO say over VOTES. The votes in MI and FL were certified by the secretaries of states and they DO count. The agreement that the candidates signed with the DNC said that they would not campaign in MI and FL, NOT that those votes would not count. READ THE AGREEMENT PLEASE.
Yes, Obama was not on the ballot, but HE voluntarily removed his name from the ballot, unlike Clinton and Obama supporter, Dodd. To use your guest's analogy, in a high school election, when a candidate voluntarily removes his name - he loses.
Here's another rule for the "rules is rules" argument - neither of them can win the nomination without super delegates, and they CAN decide based upon the popular vote, and there's a VERY good chance she can still win that. They can also decide on who they think is the best person to run on behalf of the party - that's why super delegates were created. THOSE TOO ARE EXAMPLES OF RULES.
I really wish y'all would stop trying to influence this election based upon your biased spin and skewed, incomplete facts - it underminds democracy. It seems that journalists have become mere pundits, and it's very disappointing. Luckily, the public isn't totally buying it or she wouldn't be getting so very many votes.
This is the closest presidential primary in modern history. She deserves respect, as do her supporters and voters - NOT to be constantly dismissed so that CNN can pimp their favorite candidate.
. . .
Oh, and the reason so many Clinton supporters have reservations about voting for Obama is that they have been treated with ZERO respect by the Obama supporters, including the DNC and the media. Why would we vote for someone who does not appear to value our votes?
The nastier Obama supporters and surrogates and the media are to the candidate WE BELIEVE IN, the more turned off to Obama we become - it's only simple cause and effect for Pete's sake. You can't spit all over someone and expect them to respect and support you.
. . .
Oh! Now I hear you saying people who don't suport Obama are racist! Great! That's really helping Obama's cause! Maybe we just think a guy who had a part time job as a state senator for 8 yrs and 1 yr. in the senate before he started campaigning for president isn't the most qualified to run a country in crisis on a number of fronts. Good grief! I keep asking myself how low can you possibly sink, and there seems to be no bottom!
A state made up almost entirely of over 60's uneducated white hillbillies not voting for a young black male....that's a real shocker !!!!! please.......
News alert for Ms. Issenberg: Clinton's voters--in West Virginia & elsewhere--are correct. In addition to winning all the key states, Clinton is smart, tough, experienced and well prepared for the responsibilities of the oval office, She’s worked to help the less privileged & middle class throughout her adult life and will continue doing so. Herein lies much of the reason for her ongoing success in the swing states. She promises changes, and folks know hers will be for the better.
Based on Obama’s achievements and experience to date, there’s little reason to believe he could or would be the leader we need. His scarcity of valid presidency qualifications--prepared plans/programs, experience, any bona fide accomplishments--along with his history, basic philosophy per his autobiography, his "selective" memory, and close ties to people like William Ayers, Louis Faraquan, el-slsl, Jeremiah Wright, and Tony Rezko cause deep concern about his qualifications, who he would choose as his advisers and cabinet, and where he would lead us.
As the campaigns progress and more of Obama's true character, history, etc., emerges, many voters have already had second thoughts about his self- proclaimed honesty, transparency & accountability (and also about his shortage of qualifications) and decided that Clinton is the better candidate. and many more voters will have second, & third, thoughts as they learn more. This is verified by the exit polls. The voters are opting for Clinton.
Well the numbers are against her. Forget the delegates, forget the popular vote, forget the swing states.
There is only one number that will drive Super Delegates:
$100,000,000
So say what you will about experience and elect ability. When you have cash that is all you need. Money is the Oil that lubricates politicians and she is all dried up. At least that is what Bill told Monica.
Please remove comment number 13. Is anyone screening these comments for obscenity? It is gross and insulting.
DO BETTER!