More nudges for Clinton to drop out
In the political ballet for Barack Obama to secure the Democratic nomination, what is already happening today could very well be a sign of things to come.
It will fall on supporters of Hillary Clinton -- not Obama's backers -- to convince her that she can't prevail, at least without possibly irreparably harming Democratic hopes to recapture the White House.
George McGovern, the 1972 Democratic nominee who endorsed Clinton last October, is urging her to withdraw after Obama's sweeping victory in North Carolina on Tuesday, the Associated Press is reporting.
"She has run a valiant campaign. And she will remain an influential voice in the American future," McGovern told the AP. But Obama has won the nomination "by any practical test."
"Hillary, of course, will make the decision as to if and when she ends her campaign. But I hope that she reaches that decision soon so that we can concentrate on a unified party capable of winning the White House next November," McGovern said.
Meanwhile, Governor Deval Patrick of Massachusetts, one of Obama's most enthusiastic backers, is saying that outsiders should not force Clinton from the field.
"I think that's got to be her judgment," Patrick said this morning, according to the Associated Press. The governor and Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, the 2004 nominee, are among the select group holding a conference call with reporters to put their spin on the race.
"I have a lot of respect for her, even though she is not the candidate that I have chosen," Patrick said. "If she's the nominee, I intend to work real hard for her. But she has to make the decision about her campaign. I'm just focused on the Obama campaign."
The black racism in the North Carolina win cannot triumph over the nomination process. The Indiana win of a mere 9 counties by Obama out of more than 100 counties cannot triumph over the nomination process. Florida and Michigan must be counted; the remaining states must vote; and the superdelegates must then use their independent judgment to select the best qualified candidate for the presidency and that is Hillary Clinton. The fight for the future of America continues full speed ahead. Rational Democrats need to step up to the plate and make frequent contributions to the Hillary Clinton campaign.
George McGovern was the radical left wing candidate who lost all states except for one in the general election. Obama is the same radical left wing candidate who will surely lose against McCain, just like McGovern. McGovern is a loser with no standing and credibility to be making any comment about withdrawing.
Wow sounds like McGovern laid harm to your family. It doesn't matter who wins the Democratic nomination, either one will lose by a wide margin to the far better candidate, Mccain.
Just deal with it!!
Hey crat3! Are you sure it is not crazy3? Racism? Wow! Populations count not counties!!!! And Hillary AGREED to not have Michigan and Florida count when she thought she had the nomination locked up. Now in typical Clintonian fashion she wants changes to the rules to fit her needs. "Super delegates" and "Independent" in the same phrase? PLEASE!!! They are looking to hitch their wagon to whomever can get them the best hack job. I suppose YOU are a "rational democrat"? God help the party.
You and Lanny Davis should go out for a few drinks and then get on board the OBAMA train before it runs you over. Good luck
So I guess you're going to vote for McCain...because Obama WILL win the nomination. Look at the popular vote. Clearly the masses are supporting Obama.
Remember those 9 counties could have 90% of the population Obama almost won Indiana
Well, maybe... but Drudge just reported she will announce her departure soon.
correct me if i'm wrong here, but isn't Hillary the more radical candidate of the 2? Even if either candidate is percieved as more radical, neither Obama or Clinton represent the true left wing policies of the democratic party.
Hey crat3. Why didn't Hillary denounce McGovern and refuse his support when he endorsed her months ago?
I suppose anyone who had previously endorsed her to now support our Party's nominee will also have no standing and credibility. What say ye?
My friend crat3,
even if florida and michigan are counted, she cannot win. That's how bad the situation is for Hillary!
It doesn't really matter how many counties in Indiana won or lost or how many black people voted for him in NC, votes are votes. In the end, it's the numbers that matter, not the people who are voting or the locations they are coming from. The "nomination process" consists of totaling votes, regardless of who or where they come from. As far as I can see, it's working as designed.
Hillary needs to give up. It's over.
Time for Hillary to bow out. She can't win & she's only dragging the party down. I'm a white woman who proudly supports Obama. Hillary's negative campaigning AND vote for an immoral war lost her my vote and obviously the nomination too. It's time for a change! Don't be afraid America and don't buy into the "race" card. It's hooey.
Obama/Richardson 08!!!!
"black racism"? so when white people vote for a white candidate,thats not racism?
No: 1, It is sad that this race is becoming so polarized. What is this talk about Black racism? When blacks have consistently backed the democratic candidates by the same margin they backed Obama in other general elections. This is not the type of language we need to move this country forward and you are not making a good case for Hillary speaking so divisively.
lol thanks for the laughs crat3.
If you people get your way with Billary getting the nomination we can all look forward to the McCain years in the White House.
Black racism???? Are you kidding?? Seriously... you don't think there are white people who refuse to vote for him because he's black??? Rational Democrats???? She has no chance, he leads in every categorty from delegates to popular vote and you dumb it down to counties in Indiana? In the end she still only got 51% of the votes, so really, who cares about counties.
You, the Clinton supporter are the reason why this ridiculous and long drawn out process won't end. Take some of your own advice waste some money... make a donation, she apparently is in dire need of it. Now that's rational!
the above comment obviously comes from a Clinton fan who, among other, continues to fail to face reality...get over it! Obama will be our next president.
"The Indiana win of a mere 9 counties by Obama out of more than 100 counties cannot triumph over the nomination process"
crat3, please learn about demographics: if 90% of the population resides in those 9 counties, aren't those the important ones to win? Its not number of counties that wins, its number of votes. Obama's got more of those.
I'd rather not even touch your "black racism" comment, but surely the flip must apply: is there white racism at work in Indiana and Pennsylvania? Think before you speak.
Barack Obama represents what we need as a leader for this country. We have gone on long enough with liars in control.
I am going to vote for Barack Obama not because of his color, not because of his associates, not because McCain is old and out of touch with youth, and not because of faith or bitterness. I am going to vote for Barack Obama because he is the first step in taking back our country from political rats.
Maybe Barack cannot provide everything that he hopes too, but the fact that he will actually try is going to inspire more of the kind of people we need to lead this country. The kind of people that put personal, religious, and greedy beliefs behind them for the greater good of our nation.
Maybe after 4 years of Obama, the bar will be raised. Then idiots like Bush cannot just ride in on the backs of their fathers and take over the country. We will look to our president as an inspiring leader like we did in the beginning.
Down with this Prom Queen contest called the American presidency and up with a contest composed of people we consider better then ourselves. I, for one, want a president that is superior to me in intelligence, an elitist you might say.
NOT SOMEONE TO HANGOUT WITH.
crat3
You are delusional. The race is over.
crat3: Clearly you support your candidate to the extreme but it is time for you to let realism set in. Obama is going to be the nominee. Let's start unifying behind the Democrat who will be running against McCain. Obama is that candidate.
Rational Democrats need to step up to the plate and realize that any way you slice it, this race is over. I am a Hillary supporter but she has reached the end of the road. Time to rally the forces.
crat3, your comments about "black racism in North Carolina" are extremely offensive, not based on a shred of reality, and make you sound like a racist bigot yourself.
Sorry that you can't take back your post, but you might want to start thinking about why you are such a hateful person.
Ignorance speaks again !!
Such venom and paranoia has no place in modern society. It's 2008 isn't it time to aspire to something better than this type of vitriole.
Was it black racism that caused about 88% of blacks to be against the Iraq war from its inception? My point is that not all group agreement is based on race. Might it be your own racism that blinds you to the possibility that Obama is seen as the superior candidate by all those (black and white) who enthusiastically support him?
It is intresting to know that the first readers comment is almost always from the clinton campaign.
As the nation watched the results of the IN and NC primaries between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, many dreams and expectations for what began as a promising season were finally dashed.
The similarities between the end of this Democratic race and the recent Kentucky Derby race are stark in their realities.
In the Kentucky Derby race, you had a field of powerful male stallions and one philly, all vying for the top office... top prize. Likewise in the Democratic Primaries in what began 15 months ago with a crowded field of male stallions and one lone philly... all vying for the top office: the Democratic Nomination.
Without a doubt, during the Kentucky Derby the philly showed unusual strength and bested the bulk of the stallions in the pack. She demonstrated that she could run with the big boys and not miss her stride. Indeed in this Democratic race, in the last leg coming into the home stretch, the lone philly (Hillary) was able to intimidate --and yes almost overtake the stallion who eventually won: Big Brown (Obama). While all the world watched ... hoping she could prove that a female/philly had what it takes to challenge and beat the male/stallion, it was unfortunate that with all of the best effort she put forth, Eight Belle, like Hillary Clinton, was only able to come in a close 2nd.
So now, as the nation watches tonites election results ---that Kentucky Derby race is being played out all over again in our subconscious and right before our eyes.
And like the end results in the recent Derby, the voters... the grieving, hurting fans in the stands are begging the Super Delegates to bring this tragedy to an end by euthanizing the lone Philly. It was painful and an awful sight-- especially that the euthanization had to be done in front of all the world to see. But someone had to do it!
The real irony to the story is that while Big Brown Obama did indeed win the prize... his victory lap was Bittersweet. Because just like the 2008 Kentucky Derby, how many will remember that Big Brown won.... but rather will remember and forever talk about the horror of the killing of the philly!
Why must the FL & MI delegates be counted? They broke their own rules knowing the consequences and most candidates didn't even campaign. Hell. Obama wasn't even on the MI ballot.
Hey crat3, is it "white racism" when white people vote for Hillary? And what about all the young *white* people who vote for Obama? Is that "black racism" also?
Give it up. Yes, the nomination process will continue. And when it concludes with Sen. Obama having won more elected delegates, more states, and more popular votes, you're welcome to try and spin that as well.
to crat3:
Black racism? So the fact that in PA the majority of whites voted for HRC that is also white racism? The fact that in alomst every primary a large majority of "sisters" have voted for HRC that they are sexit? Please!! Get over it. She has lost big time because of her own problems.
crat3, I agree with your post, but that is not the reality of the situation. I truly wish it were, but we can't change the results and we can't change the Democratic Party rules. I think the Dem process is convoluted and ultimately unfair, the process should reflect the general election standards (winner take all). This is the way the Republicans do it, and it's the only idea they have that I think is worth a dime.
Since it's 99% sure Obama is the nominee, we can only hope that he can pull it off in the general, since McCain is 4 more years of misery and despair for the American people.
Has anyone done the Electroal College count based on the number of states that each candidate has won to date?
Clinton beats Obama 286 to 252 is that is giving both candidates a split among Michigan and Florida. In fact, if you give Obama all the remaining primary state electoral votes, he still loses 273 to 265.
In case you don't know how many electoral votes are needed to win the number is 270.
If you don't go with the numbers, then we're talking about another 4 years of a Republican President or as I like to call him "Reagan Lite"
Black racism, please grow-up we need to come together to heal and grow OUR COUNTRY! It's all about America...
Racism....I think it if funny you claim that, yet, Hillary's supporters only reason for not voting for O'bama is because he is black. Maybe black folk just want someone who won't feed them a bunch of hypocrisy, like Hillary offers, but honestly work for them.
I feel compelled to answer the only comment asserting that George McGovern was the "radical left wing candidate" back in '72. George was pretty much from the establishment. The peace candidate was "Clean Gene" McCarthy. Let's try to focus on the fact that Hillary was posing as savior of the working class, and that she's a multimillionaire lawyer that grew up in a wealthy Chicago suburb and went to Wellesley College. She was also on the board of Wallmart, the most anti-union company in the world. Let's get real here. The Billary Clinton era was marked by the Free Trade deal and the de-industrialization of the country, and the death of the working class. I'd vote for anyone but that crass opportunist...
Why do I get the feeling crat3 is actually a repub. and not an actual Clinton supporter.
It is over, even Hillary knows it.
And "rational" Democrats will align behind the party's nominee. Anything and anyone is better than a McCain extension of the worst 8 leadership years this country has ever been subjected to.
If I ever heard a case of sour grapes, it is crat3's post. Obama did not merely win 9 counties in Indiana but 49% of the vote; that is 49% of the actual people, not geographical lines.
Black racism? Does that mean that if Clinton receives an overwhelming amount of the women's vote it is female sexism? Which means that the elderly vote becomes senior ageism?
Hillary is only prolonging the inevitable while hurting the Democratic Party and ultimately the people of the United States whom she claims to hold in her highest interest.
regarding the post from above: "When does genius turn to madness"? Enough. You lost.
She should pull out of the race. Hillary agreed to the rules around Florida and Michigan. Wanting to change them now simply because she is loosing is a major flip-flop and, an embarassing one at that. All the phony indignation she can muster should not be allowed to change the primary rules and the process that was agreed to upfront should be allowed to come to a natural conclusion.
Rational Democrats need to step up to the plate and urge her to bail out now. If by some miracle she was to get the nomination, she can count on losing the black vote and in key states handing the election to McCain.
black racism? how about white racism?...people won't vote for Barack merely because he is black. I think that is pretty racist myself. If it were 2 black men could you say that 90% voted for him because he is black? How about the genderists that are merely voting for Clinton because they want a woman president? What about the people who care about the issues...like me? I would vote for Barack over Hillary and McCain because of the issues...and not issues like his race or religion or gender. For some it IS about the issues and not all of this non sense
It's absolutely true that Clinton will not stop until her last supporter concedes that she can't win. Sadly, that won't happen, and crat3's comments are emblematic of why. Black racism? Are you kidding? Don't chalk up an entire Democratic core of votes to racism. They're voting their interests, which really aren't that different from anyone else's.
The term "electability" is where the racism lies, and it's just subtle enough to be thrown around without much examination. The rhetoric of "our country isn't ready for a black president" needs to end, and those who are challenging the "electability" of Obama need to take a good look at themselves and take responsibility for their own attitudes and how they contribute to the intolerance that they are so quick to attribute to "America" at large.
The "nomination process" has already pretty much proven that Obama will be the candidate. You need to get good with the possibility of a black president.
Hillary can be president of a bunch of unpopulated counties in Indiana. The fact of the matter is that, where the people live in Indiana, they voted for Obama. I'm white and I support Obama. I have good friends and family in Montana, Idaho, California, Texas, Georgia, Oregon, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Virginia, Missouri, Alabama and Minnesota all of whom are (very) white and all of whom support Obama. Just because black people vote for a black man doesn't make it racist, foo.
But there are people who cling to their guns and religion who would never vote for a black man. But that's fine. I believe most of the country is beyond them and that Obama's message has penetrated on both coasts and in the heartland. Yes We Can!
Umm, McGovern was supporting Hillary Clinton until today. So, the comments you make about him, now that he isn't supporting her... do they apply to when he was?
I agree with previous comment, I cannot agree more that Obama will fall to defeat as badly as super-liberals McGovern and Dukakis. He has the most liberal voting record in Congress. Also, I keep hearing how everyone will be upset if the nomination is stolen from Obama, yet isn't Clinton's chances being stolen by the way Michigan and Florida was handled. I had vowed to never vote for a Republican again but then the good ole Democrats found a way to lose the general election by throwing rampant liberalism at us. Guess if the choice is Obama mine will have to be McCain.
Hilary can fight until the end, but she's damaging her own reputation in the process. There is also white racisim in North Carolina and Indiana, and yet he still one the majority of the popular vote, it doesn't matter how many tiny counties she won. Obama was not even on the ballot in Michigan, so there is no way Clinton can claim a victory there.
George McGovern is a Clinton supporter, so if he is a left wing radicalist, then he's Hilary's left wing radicalist.
wow this person is "bitter"
you know its the total votes- as in every single person, not just who dominated a county...
To Crat3: Yes, Obama won an overwhelming majority of the black vote in North Carolina, but that is not the only metric by which he won the state by 230,000 votes. Yes, Obama won flat-out in only 9 counties in Indiana, but of the total votes cast in the state he got 49%. The political fallout would catastrophic for whoever the Democratic nominee is in the general election if the DNC goes against its own rules and seats the Florida and Michigan delegates based on the results of bogus elections. George McGovern, radical left wing "loser" or not, is still a superdelegate whose voice and decision matters whether you like it or not. His switch from Clinton to Obama will doubtless be demonized by many of Clinton's supporters who still refuse to accept the reality of the situation today and who will continue this losing fight out of sheer stubbornness until the party implodes and we get yet another Republican in the White House. For someone who supposedly is in this because she loves her country and doesn't want to see it fall backward, Hillary, by continuing the fight and constantly trying to change the rules and the definition of whose votes count, is making a mockery of her party and is damaging its chances of achieving what was once a shared vision for America. It's really sad to watch.
Indiana is 94 % white. If Obama got 49 % of the total vote, that means a lot of whites voted for him. Obama has won practically every state in the deep South. He could not have done that without the support of a lot of white voters. It appears to me that racism is more alive in certain areas of the North than it is in the rest of the country. Sad to say.
Give me a break!
I take it crat3 is one of the MILLIONS of republicals (if you look up the definition of republican in the dictionary you'll find that those who support the GOP are only really psuedo-republican) who voted for Hillary in the primaries because they don't think McCain can beat Obama.
In fact, Obama was correct this morning in calling his North Carolina showing "a decisive victory." And as today's Globe quotes him as saying of Indiana, "we did much better than all the pundits predicted, despite Republicans changing parties to support Senator Clinton, believing she would be easier for Senator McCain to defeat."
It would be refreshing to see a republical using something other than deception in an argument or election once in a while.
The majority of Hllary's backers are hoping for a position in her admininstration. They don't care about real change. And if Hillary can't keep tabs on her ol' man and the cigar box, how and the heck is she going to keep an eye on the world's problem's?
George McGovern was hardly a left wing candidate. Compare Obama to Nader and Obama seems to be a right wing candidate. I am also tired of hearing that Obama is black and America won't elect a black man. One day this kind of backward racist division must end. America has been voting for him and in large numbers. The democratic vote has been split because both candidates are good choices. "Rational democrats need to step up" and get behind a candidate that can win. And with the popular vote and the "elitist delegates" Obama is the nominee.
51/49 is not a victory.
My goodness, Crat3 -- you are one angry person.
OBAMA, YAHOOOO!!!
Obama was supposed to lose against Hillary from the outset. Yet he has steadly gained on her. It appears that Hillary is a loser and Obama is in fact a winner.
ookkk........ take a chill pill...... its over......
crat3, you're a fool.
Crat3 you fail to mention that the 9 counties Obama won had most of the population. To say that each county is equal when one has 0.1% of the pop compared to 8-14% is ridiculous
"The letter that David Plouffe sent out late last night to the superdelegates (why this is not newsworthy is a little puzzling to me):
there are only six contests remaining in the Democratic primary
calendar and only 217 pledged delegates left to be awarded. Only 7
percent of the pledged delegates remain on the table. There are 260
remaining undeclared superdelegates, for a total of 477 delegates left
to be awarded.
With North Carolina and Indiana complete,
Barack Obama only needs 172 total delegates to capture the Democratic
nomination. This is only 36% of the total remaining delegates.
Conversely,
Senator Clinton needs 326 delegates to reach the Democratic nomination,
which represents a startling 68% of the remaining delegates.
With
the Clinton path to the nomination getting even narrower, we expect new
and wildly creative scenarios to emerge in the coming days. While those
scenarios may be entertaining, they are not legitimate and will not be
considered legitimate by this campaign or its millions of supporters,
volunteers, and donors.
We believe it is exceedingly unlikely
Senator Clinton will overtake our lead in the popular vote and in fact
lost ground on that measure last night. However, the popular vote is a
deeply flawed and illegitimate metric for deciding the nominee - since
each campaign based their strategy on the acquisition of delegates.
More importantly, the rules of the nomination are predicated on
delegates, not popular vote.
Just as the Presidential election
in November will be decided by the electoral college, not popular vote,
the Democratic nomination is decided by delegates.
If we
believed the popular vote was somehow the key measurement, we would
have campaigned much more intensively in our home state of Illinois and
in all the other populous states, in the pursuit of larger raw vote
totals. But it is not the key measurement. We played by the rules, set
by you, the DNC members, and campaigned as hard as we could, in as many
places as we could, to acquire delegates. Essentially, the popular vote
is not much better as a metric than basing the nominee on which
candidate raised more money, has more volunteers, contacted more
voters, or is taller.
The Clinton campaign was very clear
about their own strategy until the numbers become too ominous for them.
They were like a broken record , repeating ad nauseum that this
nomination race is about delegates. Now, the word delegate has
disappeared from their vocabulary, in an attempt to change the rules
and create an alternative reality.
We want to be clear - we
believe that the winner of a majority of pledged delegates will and
should be the nominee of our party. And we estimate that after the
Oregon and Kentucky primaries on May 20, we will have won a majority of
the overall pledged delegates According to a recent news report, by
even their most optimistic estimates the Clinton Campaign expects to
trail by more than 100 pledged delegates and will then ask the
superdelegates to overturn the will of the voters.
But of
course superdelegates are free to and have been utilizing their own
criteria for deciding who our nominee should be. Many are deciding on
the basis of electability, a favorite Clinton refrain. And if you look
at the numbers, during a period where the Clinton campaign has been
making an increasingly strident pitch on electability, it is clear
their argument is failing miserably with superdelegates.
Since
February 5, the Obama campaign has netted 107 superdelegates, and the
Clinton campaign only 21. Since the Pennsylvania primary, much of it
during the challenging Rev. Wright period, we have netted 24 and the
Clinton campaign 17.
At some point - we would argue that time
is now - this ceases to be a theoretical exercise about how
superdelegates view electability. The reality of the preferences in the
last several weeks offer a clear guide of how strongly superdelegates
feel Senator Obama will perform in November, both in building a winning
campaign for the presidency as well as providing the best electoral
climate across the country for all Democratic candidates.
It
is important to note that Senator Obama leads Senator Clinton in
superdelegate endorsements among Governors, United States Senators and
members of the House of Representatives. These elected officials all
have a keen sense for who our strongest nominee will be in November.
It is only among DNC members where Senator Clinton holds a lead, which has been rapidly dwindling.
As
we head into the final days of the campaign, we just wanted to be clear
with you as a party leader, who will be instrumental in making the
final decision of who our nominee will be, how we view the race at this
point.
Senator Obama, our campaign and our supporters believe
pledged delegates is the most legitimate metric for determining how
this race has unfolded. It is simply the ratification of the DNC rules
- your rules - which we built this campaign and our strategy around
I can't believe any Democrat who has seen a county-by-county map of either the 2000 or 2004 presidential election would think this is a valid argument. Obama won the more highly populated urban counties, which are exactly those counties that might make Indiana go blue in 2008. Saying "Florida and Michigan must be counted" sounds noble and all, but you can't just carry forward the results of those elections, one of which didn't even have Obama on the ballot. And then of course we get to the name-calling, the last resort of those who have no other leg to stand on... truly pathetic.
The argument that Clinton is more electable doesn't hold much water considering she's LOSING the ELECTION to Obama. Nice try, though.
Voters like Crat3 is why John McCain will win in November. Shame.
to crat3: Throughout history, there have been hundreds of elections in which a white candidate was opposed by a black candidate, but the black candidate lost because of the almost 100% support of white voters. It was ASSUMED that white voters would vote for the white candidate. We whites have been supporting our white candidates throughout history and have enjoyed an overwhelmingly white-dominated leadership in government, on all levels. The only difference here is that a black candidate has a chance of WINNING. That's what gets you mad and causes all the outcries of so-called "black racism!"
And P. S. The Clinton campaign conceded this morning that EVEN IF FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN WERE COUNTED, she would still come up short.
crat3: Winning lots of counties means little when nobody lives there. Putting your obvious bias aside for a moment, please realize that Obama's popular vote lead (which exists even if one factors in the dsiputed Fla. and Mich. results) cannot be explained by the black vote alone.
I don't see how Obama can be placed in same category as somebody that ran for office years ago. And I certainly can't see how he might be a radical.
I understand if your upset that your candidate is behind the curve, but I don't see any need to slam Obama over it.
And before you think I'm an Obama lover...I'm truly not. Most generally I vote right wing conservative. But this go-a-around, I think he 's the best choice of the three options. And I sure don't want to see another Clinton in office again...I was in the military during the first one...now I'm not...get the picture!
A little too much cut-back.
You sound like one of those uneducated voters that Hillary does so well with. Black racism, radical left-wingers -- oooh, scary.
Guess it'll be a tough choice for you in November: a geriatric flip-flopper who can't remember what day it is, or a card-carrying communist dedicated to helping Louis Farrakhan rape your daughter.
My bleeding heart bleeds for you.
Please, Michigan and Florida ignored the rules and that decision was not made by Obama. Without rules and guidelines where would this country be? Oh I got it, if its for your nominee then bend/break them.
Both Clintons believed in McGovern and campaigned for him in '72. Using your logic, crat3, what does that say about the Clintons? And as for those 9 counties in Indiana, they were essentially the most populous ones. It doesn't matter if you have a thousand counties that vote for you if nobody lives there. Oh, and please drop the Florida/Michigan thing already. All the candidates--including Hillary--agreed to the rules beforehand.
Hillary's time is past. Barack is the new: look at all the new voters! McCain is a weak candidate, and we can win with Barack!
I look forward to you losing again when you vote for McCain in the general election
The primary is moving into a period when fences will be mended, voters will be courted instead of harangued, talk of the gas tax will probably wane. Then everyone will come together and turn their focus on John McCain, who has had the luxury of campaigning in the shadow of this larger news story. But McCain does not seem to have benefitted from the pass he is getting. He has a long list of gaffes and stumbles to show for it, which will not play well.
Campaigning is a younger person's game. I think this may not be fun to watch.
And in the meantime, it is up to Clinton to decide, just as John Edwards did and Mike Huckabee did, when she has made her point, when it is time to go. It will probably happen quite suddenly, without warning. Edwards was on his way to the Convention one day, out of the race the next. In the meantime it is giving States whose primary votes never mattered before the pleasure of making a statement and getting some welcome attention. This is by far the most interesting primary I can recall seeing. Far from all bad, even though pundits find it worrisome. No worries, in my country we call this "democracy" and we honor it.
Hi, there, Crat. I'm a white Southern male in my 40's, and I'm supporting Barack Obama. I was contributing to his campaign during Mrs. Clinton's acceptance speech last night, thinking about how she agreed to exclude FL and MI before she needed them. And about how after losing, she argued the Texas caucus rules her advisors had helped devise. And how the Republikans sure like her better as an opponent. Wonder why that is...
Love the 'rational' and 'radical' bits. Keep labeling, Crat! That's the way things get done. In the meantime, the rest of us irrational radicals will count FL, split MI, tally the superdelegates, and elect Barack Obama in November. Enjoy!
Its over. Obama IS the Democratic Party nominee now. Had it not been for Republican cross-over votes, he would have taken Indiana as well.
To all Democrats and Independents, get behind Obama.
Unless you want four more years of Bush-Lite, $10.00 / gallon of gas, and 100 more years in Iraq
Perhaps Crat3 doesn't understand the primary process, but the fact that Obama only won nine counties doesn't matter. It's the number of actual *people* that vote for Obama that counts, not the land area.
The rules were clear; Florida and Michigan broke the rules, and weren't seated. They had the option to be represented like the other states, and chose not to do so. Clinton now talks about representing them now that she needs them, but she agreed like all the other candidates not to campaign in those states and she did not complain when the DNC stripped FL/MI of their delegates.
How come McGovern only becomes a loser when he backs Obama instead of your candidate?
From what I understand, it is impossible to even hint at any racism on the part of blacks in this country... by the very definition, racism is the subjugation of a given race by the majority in power of a country... and the African American community is clearly not in control of the government.
I would suggest you post carefully prior to making such statements - I know I would even as a part of the white majority - I am now some 60 years old and have fought against racism of all forms since I was in my teens...
Ms. Clinton needs time to ponder the situation. She has run a fairly decent decent campaign and i think she will do what is best fort the party and the Republic.
Oh please, give it a rest. We choose nominees by delegates. Obama cannot be caught by Clinton in the delegate race. If you want to use the popular vote, she can't win there either. For Clinton to continue this nonsensical quest for the nomination makes me question her mental fitness for anything.
What a bunch of crat3. The 9 counties that Obama won included some of the largest population counties in Indiana. The vote was very close in Indiana. Changing the rules on Florida and Michigan is typical of Clinton and their fans. Those two states knew that they were in violation of the rules and deserve to be excluded. Obama as effectively won the nomination and it is time for the Clintons to act responsibly and mature.
Hillary is done. Her experience is a joke. She was not President any more than Yoko Ono was a Beatle. She is unelectable in a general election anyway.
They're not saying that we don't have a vote. They're simply stating that she has no chance of winning, and by gettting out earlier, the Democrats have a chance of regrouping their party. This will allow them more time to prepare for the actual election. Sure, everyone's vote counts, but if she wants to drop out, that's her decision (and I'm not saying she wants to).
Amen! Crat3 said it all for me. Hillary is doing Obama and the Democratic party a huge service by continuing. Together they have attracted literally hundreds of thousands of new voters. Obama would be kidding himself if he thought that by standing alone he would be better off. In fact, if I were he, I would urge her to stay in the race. It gives voters less time to look at him too closely.
It does look rather bleak for her but she is right in saying that all voters should be given a say and a choice. After all, if she were running in the Republican rule of winner take all, she would have long ago been the Dem. nominee!
Crat:
Yes, McGovern was left wing and radical and yes, he lost every state (even his own) except MA. But you are wrong about Obama. I know George McGovern, my family has worked with him. He is not George McGovern. Times have changed and he is a candidate that can help make more change happen.
I am fairly sure that McGovern would have done much betting in 1976 after the Watergate debacle had seen its run.
I totally agree crat3! I mean, why shouldn't the count Florida and Michigan? All they did was not follow the rules governing the primary election process. Rules are made to be broken anyway, right? I mean, that's the Bush motto, so it might as well be the new Clinton motto as well.
As for the superdelegates, I also agree that they should use their independent judgment. After all, what type of democracy would we be if the people's votes actually mattered? The only votes that should matter are those of a select few...lets call them "superdelegates". The general population electing it's officials is a ridiculous idea...certainly not a democracy....oh wait....
Nah-nah-nah,
Nah-nah-nah,
Hey-hey-hey,
Good-bye, Hilary!
Hey crat3,
There is no such thing as "black racism" just racism. Try to remember that. OK, now to your other ill thought out comments. Around 12% of the voters are black. If Obama were only picking up black voters, he wouldn't have been running after the first couple states. He has broad appeal. He's even picking up nearly as many women voters as Hillary.
Your scare tactics, or ignorance, are not helpful. Either one would be a good candidate. However. Obama has won this race. You seem to be in denial about that. We've had 7 years of people who live in denial running this country. Show us you're better than that. It's time to conceed and work toward the general election.
crat3,
So, all the democrats in North Carolina are racist, but all the rural white people in Indiana who voted for Clinton are not?
Grow up, stop using the race card.
>The black racism in the North Carolina win cannot triumph over the nomination process.
Why is it that you call blacks racist for voting for Obama but you make no mention of the whites voting for Hillary out of racism or women voting for Hillary out of sexism.
>Obama is the same radical left wing candidate..
Please give an example. Obama's policies seem very moderate to me. Just because he is educated that doesn't make him left-wing.
You are wrong. She already lost. She cannot win via pledged delegates. So, would one imply she should be granted the nominee by a "smokey back-room"? I think that would do a lot to show the peoples' votes count... Not to mention how she stand no chance in gaining republican votes of any kind. Hilary is not well liked in the more conservative ranks. Regardless, her run has been a disturbing show of selfishness from the beginning. American democracy is not one where it would ever be logical to have the same two families run the nation from the highest elected office for the better part of three decades. That is an aristocracy.
Crat3 and others: I'm not an African American, nor do I feel racist, but I am from NC. We are proud of our tide-turning vote for Obama. It's time for a new conversation and Obama has the courage to start it. The old labels of racism, radical, left wing, right wing, liberal, and conservative are challenges that Obama has the vision and faith to see beyond. The hope we might have for our country depends on such a vision. Won't you join in it?
nice comment
i bet you didn't call McGovern a loser when he backed Hilary.
Perhaps it is time to give some respect to wise old men who have a much grander experience of the political game and who have a desire to see the democratic party win above all else.
It's time to look beyond this inner divide that can make you and others look too much at the small scale divisions and instead look at the grander picture and respect whatever choices may now come from the superdelegates as they are people who have earned their voice through a lot of wisened experience and hard work for the democratic party.
You're delusional. And must be named Terry McAuliffe to believe what you just wrote.
I just hope that after this debacle of a race, the Dems will re think their nomination process. I also think it is wise not to incite racial devides at every opportunity...but thats just me.
crat3 your candidate lost - get over it - time to support Barack. It's over for Hillary and has been since super tuesday
"Rational Democrats" should quit supporting Hillary Clinton. Several reasons why
(A) She was against seating the FL and MI delegations back before the primary process started. You can't blame Obama for not allowing a re-vote... you CAN blame the Republican state legislatures in those states for 1. breaking the rules in the first place and 2. for blocking the process of establishing an alternate re-voting process after it was apparent that Hillary wouldn't take all the delegates she needed on Feb. 5. Even if those delegations ARE seated, she still won't be able to catch up to Barack by any metric of success.
nnumber of counties
Rational Democrats are hearing Clinton bandy words like "obliterate" when it comes to Iran and following her gas tax holiday, which no economists will endorse. Rational Democrats have already stepped up to the plate, helping Obama with record-setting fundraising, while Clinton continues to loan her own campaign millions of dollars. Rational Democrats have spoken and voted and are bestowing the nomination on Barack Obama.
MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA ARE OUT, THERE IS NO WAY THEIR VOTES SHOULD BE COUNTED. HOW CAN A PARTY THAT IS SO AGAINST THE ELECTORIAL COLLEGE ALLOW SUPER DELIGATES AS PART OF THEIR PROCESS?
Obama has a better chance against McCain that Clinton.
To crat3:
Clinton's support has been propped up by ReFUDlican extremists. They like her, as they know they could beat her. I think they would know a lot more about who they can beat than you do.
I doubt "Rational Democrats" will be donating to a failed candidate, when they have already donated en mass to Obama.
Being that Obama and Clinton's stance on the issues are about the same - wouldn't Clinton be just as much a "radical left wing candidate". I suggest you smell your own BS.
Black racism my a~~. You need to face reality and recognize what millions of others -- black, white and purple -- already have: Barack Obama is the best person to lead this country out of the multiple quagmires the GWB administration has lied, er led, us into. We want the truth, not more of the same tricky business of the past eight years. Hillary Clinton blew any chance she may have had by using the same tactics the Republicans used to such great advantage in the last two elections. The public has tired of it. Those tricks don't work now, in large part thanks to the internet affording Americans an alternate source of world and national news and opinion. Sorry, man, but Hillary came in second. Let's move on, back Obama, and get rid of the Republicans and their destructive policies.
Wow - was that the wording you guys used to accept his endorsements a few moths ago? Also love your logic - a few counties with large populations dont count, BUT a few large states won should - seems silly when you say it out loud doesn't it. Let's be honest - she has fought a good fight, with a terrible campaign team - they should be sued for malpractice!!! This nomination was hers to lose and she did - NEXT
"The black racism in the North Carolina win cannot triumph over the nomination process"
Because they voted for a black man, that makes them racist. Sounds like your the one with race issues.
"Rational Democrats need to step up to the plate and make frequent contributions to the Hillary Clinton campaign."
You mean conservative democrats, since she is basically a moderate republican.
These guys are just so full of it, and themselves. They have never been for Hillary and I for one am starting to feel that the "boys in washington" will never accept a woman in charge. Period. She is the only candidate for me, and many others, and to see this disengenious "if she is the nominee I will work real hard for her" comment is sickening. The only time these guys have come forward to say this is now, when she is the true underdog and to try and pacify us Clinton supporters into thinking "gee, they really would" is a blatant lie. What will really be fun to see is all the antagonistic, vulgar, nasty Obama bloggers who will try to do an about-face and try to win Clinton supporters like me - Forget it!
I will NOT vote in the GE for Obama, and will write in her name instead. I can no more, in good conscience, vote for an inexperienced, racist, politician then I could vote for a Republican. Being from FL, I am not alone in my stance that not counting my vote now, as it stands, means forget me in the GE. Good luck.
If Americans get over the skin color of Barack and see his character and his qualities, he is one of the best candidates in this race. He can unite this country and get the real problems solved, like healthcare, mortgage, high unemployment, gas prices, just naming a few. We have been lied to by this administration for so long, and told of the" boogdie" man who is out there to get us. Fear, divisive politics and greed is all that has gone in this administration for the last eight years, I don't think the American people can be fooled to believe this for the next four more years. I am a first generation immigrant and like many others will be really proud if I see Barack getting to the White House. Not to mention our image in Europe and the world which has been tarnished throughout the world. We can achieve the true status of being the world leader again. God bless Barack and our country
I hope that you thought first before writing that comment...... Right now the RNC along with Sen. McCain are all supporting Sen. Clinton to remain in the race for the WH. Why is that? Ummm I wonder why?
Maybe because they know that they can't beat Obama and that Hillary is already tearing up the DNC for them anyways. So McCain is quietly winning more votes from the Democrats because Hillary just can't accept the defeat, and she keeps bringing down Obama for them. Come on two against one. Hillary and Mccain vs Obama. yep makes me wonder.
Both Obama and Hillary have fought a good fight. However, Obama is the best elect and will defeat McCain in the November election. Have faith in a man that have the American people's best interests and concerns at hand. The polls reflect the truth and whom they feel would be the best commander in chief. It is those spur of the moment decisions and disbelief individuals whom appears to be afraid to grasp change, move pass yesterday and secure a better future for themselves. Life is not forever in this world, procrastination because of personal distractions, won't help the 'real' problems that the American people face today. And living in the past definitely have not helped. Therefore, I support Obama and his efforts to make manifest, along with those whom choose to grasp reality in accepting his platform, that we all may restore America for the best for ourselves and our future generations. Don't be stuck between a rock and a hardshell when there is an openning offered to bring you out. People makes this race a 'racial affair' which is what we don't need and what has been a part of the past that we have seen to stagnate positive forward movement. Let it go and live, that you may help in the changing and progress of a better America for all. Last, but not least, unity is a must because if you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything. Let's stand together in unity, that we won't fall. OBAMA 08
It's not black racism, doofus - it's a preference for a candidate. Blacks don't, in general, prefer Hillary because she's Hillary, not because she's white. And looking at any state from a county perspective will show the same sorts of spreads - it's not about # of counties, it's about # of voters - you want a podunk county with 1,000 people in it to count as equal to a county with 1,000,000+ people in it..?
And no, Florida and Michigan shouldn't be counted - ironically, one of Clinton's own staff was one of the ones who voted to strip those two states of their rights to be counted because of the decisions those state's dem. parties made, so it's a bit hard to swallow the "oh, well, wait a min, maybe we should count them now...".
hmm... when 80% of the black vote goes to white democratic presidential candidates in presidential elections, no one calls it racism. But if the black vote goes for a black candidate, it's racism? Interesting.
What's funny is the same % of blacks were supporting Bill Clinton, and back then it wasn't racism to you? Add to that fact that most people who said race matters went to Hill, as do all the middle aged and elderly white women, but you don't call that racism or sexism. I think the reality is you're jealous. President Obama. Get used to it. And if you're still jealous when he's president, well, he'll be president and you'll still be a jealous loser.
Crat3
You are simply ridiculous. maybe you should undesRtand RULES or or how not to disobey the laws.......How can you be so NAIVE to indicate that the dems.should help her out to finance her campaign. Do you really konw this LADY. Might as well do some research on the CLINTONS....Many of them ARE CONCEALED ......aS FOR RACISM, YOU ARE TOO MUCH AFFECTED DEEPLY, AND UNABLE TO LOOK PAST YOUR NOSE.....HYPOCRITES LIKE YOU, SHOULD LIVE IN ISOLATION....YOU DEFINITELY LACK PERCEPTION.....
"Rational Democrats" should quit supporting Hillary Clinton. Several reasons why
(B) Democrats have long depended on population centers in a concentrated number of counties to deliver electoral votes. The Democrats haven't won Indiana since 1964 in a presidential election. This is the reason that electoral votes are apportioned according to congressional districts rather than by counties.
(C) I will reiterate that Hillary CANNOT win this race. She was a great candidate and has run a valiant campaign, but sometimes you need to know when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em. Any way you dice it, this is a fold situation for her.
Allow me to offer some plain speaking on this topic. STOP HATING ON BARACK'S ABILITY TO WIN AND START SUPPORTING HIM FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! Understand that the naysayers are not just the republicans, but democrats still stuck in the old way the country is being ran. Obama offers everyone to take part in healing a broken country, corrupted by lies and corruption. No he is not a messiah, but who on earth is? We are all responsible for fixing what we as a human race have destroyed. Obama just is man enough to step up and offer his help in making that change. Now it is our turn. Let think on that as we begin a process that should have been started over 100 years ago. thank you for a chance to offer my plain sentimental opinion.
Congratulations to Hillary for a hard fought race.
I think it's now time to shift to the general election. Hopefully, we can all now unite behind the fact that this country cannot tolerate four more years of the past eight.
Next Stop - The GOP Fear Machine
I think that oil will be this cycle's GOP scare tactic for their fear machine. Some economists have mentioned $10/gal gas. Carl Rove has already said:
"If we were to give up Iraq with the third largest oil reserves in the world to the control of an Al Qaida regime or to the control of Iran, don't you think $200 a barrel oil would have a cost to the American economy?"
It seems probable that the GOP will try to scare the public into a mindset that the only way we can hold onto our money is by holding onto Iraq.
We have to get prepared to show that this administration's (and McCain's) policies are the reason for the problem, not the solution.
Fear will not win. Not this time.
I would like to reply below comment with confidence that "AMERICA IS CHANGING, PLEASE GET USE TO IT". You can not divide this country based on race. I would watch out by using word white and black because future generation does not divide this country in black and white or red and blue..It moving..Its moving forward..........please check your stats...He has won
Iowa, South Carolina, Alabama, Alaska, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Kansas, Minnesota, Missouri, North Dakota, Utah, Louisiana, Nebraska, Washington, Maine, Washington, D.C., Maryland, Virginia, Hawaii, Wisconsin, Vermont, U.S. Virgin Islands, Democrats Abroad, Wyoming and Mississippi, NC.....................>.........>
Please Calm down......Check your knowledge...and Please provide collective and informed argument.
Obama will make a great President. Obama '08. Yes we can!!!
crat3,
Your analysis crashes upon the rocky shores of reality. Clinton has not won delegates, popular vote or the money race. It's over.
Also, I am more than a little disappointed with the suggestion that Obama's wins are illegitimate because he wins the votes of minorities. It's as if you think minority votes are not worth as much.
No matter your obvious passion, you cannot overcome the realities.
Hillary is over and staying in the race serves only selfish purposes. In her world its only about her, which is why she'll never be president. Stepping out now would in many ways be her best strategy toward a future run.
Only someone who is not a minority complains about "black racism," since they obvioulsy have no idea what it is like to be black in the US. Having a president who truly knows (instead of just saying he/she understands, because you can't unless you are black) would be one step in the right direction for this country.
Michigan should definitely NOT be counted since Obama was not even on the ballot there (because he was following the rules, in contrast to Clinton who did not withdraw her name as she should have).
Either candidate would be a great president, but enough Americans have now made it clear that they want Obama. If we want to win against McCain, we need to stop screwing around and start campaigning against him instead of each other.
Congratulations to Hillary for a hard fought race.
I think it's now time to shift to the general election. Hopefully, we can all now unite behind the fact that this country cannot tolerate four more years of the past eight.
Next Stop - The GOP Fear Machine
I think that oil will be this cycle's GOP scare tactic for their fear machine. Some economists have mentioned $10/gal gas. Carl Rove has already said:
"If we were to give up Iraq with the third largest oil reserves in the world to the control of an Al Qaida regime or to the control of Iran, don't you think $200 a barrel oil would have a cost to the American economy?"
It seems probable that the GOP will try to scare the public into a mindset that the only way we can hold onto our money is by holding onto Iraq.
We have to get prepared to show that this administration's (and McCain's) policies are the reason for the problem, not the solution.
Fear will not win. Not this time.
Hillary, you need to exit gracefully.... and time is now.
To Crat3:
Black racism? Should the North Carolina result be deligitimized on account of demographics? Are you saying the black vote doesn't count wherever there's a large African American constituency? Surely you don't mean that (but I'm guessing you do). Pot kettle black. And that doesn't take into account the younger white voters who have chosen Obama on the basis of his candidacy rather than his race.
The "Indiana win... by Obama?" He lost, actually (by less than 1%, but he lost nonetheless). So, they split the pledged delegates. What are you talking about?
Florida and Michigan? Go ahead and count them. It doesn't change the delegate or popular majority.
Don't worry about contributions. Hill just dropped another $6 million into the effort. That ought to cover the bill for the last flicker of this bonfire of vanity.
McGovern a loser? The loser here is Clinton, except she seems to be the last to know.
Sorry Hillary supporter but Obama got 40% of the white vote in North Carolina. What color is that racism? It was decided that Florida and Michigan would not be counted before this primary started and Hillary agreed. Ask her (it's on tape). If she's allowed to change the rules in the middle of a contest every person playing sports should be allowed to change the rules during the game.
Crat3 => please don't let your KKK membership expire. Keep hating ...
Eli => Hope your hired contra(c)ts are Iraq (soon in Iran, Syria, Pakistan and ... ) are well paid because man you are going to be rich. 100 years in iraq means lot of money to you .. kudos
JakeB => We are just wasting our time. Can't straighten a bent dick or two :)
crat3,
Your analysis crashes upon the rocky shores of reality. Clinton has not won delegates, popular vote or the money race. It's over.
Also, I am more than a little disappointed with the suggestion that Obama's wins are illegitimate because he wins the votes of minorities. It's as if you think minority votes are not worth as much.
No matter your obvious passion, you cannot overcome the realities.
I think the phrase is black preference...let's not forget that Obama does have the support of some of white working class, though it is not as much as there should be. But it will be interesting to see if the democratic party would be so bold as to upset black voters, the most loyal supporters of democrats for the last 50 years. Why is it that Obama needs to really work on getting the white working class vote, but Clinton doesn't need to reach out to black voters? Is the Clinton campaign assuming that she won't have black support because she's not black? She's a Clinton! Black people were largely rooting for her at first, but she chose to pick one key demographic, and focus on them. Maybe the black "racism" is the result of her failure to reach out to the black community. Maybe she should have thought of that, instead of making her own race-driven assumptions.