Pelosi: Nomination fight won't go to convention

I would still like to know how Clinton can say she deserves the vote - AS IS - but disenfranchise those Florida and Michigan voters who did NOT vote beccause they were told it would not count. In addition, it has come out on one of these sites that, in areas in Florida, at least one voter stated that the ballot they were given did NOT include the names of ANY of the candidates, thus making it impossible for voters to vote for the candidate of their choice! (coincidentally, the husband and wife noted they wanted to vote for Obama - but, in effect, were prevented from doing so because he was not listed on the ballot they were given!)

And, due to the fact that, both before Florida and after Michigan primaries, Clinton used the media to campaign FOR HER to reinstate the votes in both - even though they are grossly invalid due to issues noted above - I do not feel Clinton is entitled to a 'full reinstatement'! I find that absolutely unconscienable that even her supporters ignore all these facts!

Fortunately, this is definitely the nail in the coffin for Senator Clinton's presidential campaign. I only hope she will really do what she's said, unlike her then-and-now change of stance on Florida and Michigan, and fully support the party's nominee.

Since January of last year I've been saying that Obama should be the presidential nominee and Clinton the vice-presidential nominee, and even two weeks ago I was leaning the same way. But the insane childish accusations and statements coming from Clinton's supporters which she and her husband have fueled have begun to change my mind.

Obama and his campaign people are bending over backwards to allow Mrs. Clinton the opportunity to gracefully finish the campaign she began on her own terms, without trying to "push her out the door," which is the correct and decent thing to do. And she's right when she says it would be inappropriate for her to drop out while there is still no definite nominee. But if she's really willing to take the ridiculous fight over Florida and Michigan to the convention then she shows herself to be the kind of person I've been giving her the benefit of the doubt of not being: a selfish, win-at-all-costs megalomaniac.

How would you feel if you were waiting in line for tickets to a concert you'd been yearning to attend for four years, when two scalpers cut in front of you at the last minute and take the last tickets? That's exactly what's happened here. The DNC lawyers have looked at the law and determined that it would be illegal for any more than half of the delegates to be restored.

Mrs. Clinton and her supporters will have a choice to make on Wednesday. Do they accept the outcome of a well-fought campaign, or become the very worst of what the republicals have been accusing Democrats of being for years. Who knows? Maybe Vice President is better than going down in history as something much less than honorable.

NanD-- well said. Agreed.

It could also be argued that Obama supporters in Michigan were disenfranchised. How many did not vote because they knew he would not be on the ballot? How do you allocate the 50% of the voters who chose undecided?

In fact, even just seating half of the delegates isn't really 'fair' to all parties.

Also, why is it never brought up that the REPUBLICAN governer of Florida authorized the date switch which led to this debacle? hello, media? are you there?

I'd say allow all the delegates to have full votes for both States but only after they hold their primaries again at both Florida and Michigan's cost as a penalty.. Oh and make sure BOTH Clinton and Obama are on the ballot this time.

Why the slow death for Hillary? The Super-Delegates should put her (us) out of her misery! Then the party healing could begin and Obama would be free to focus his energy on McCain!

Hillary, the Queen of Spin and a Legend in Her Own Mind!

http://klintons.com

As a long-time Republican, I urge Hillary to continue her fight way past August... I think she should hold out until Inauguration day in January.

We can use the same advertisments we used against Kerry with just a little modification: "She voted against FL and MI before she voted for them"

I have lot of respect for Hillary and Bill. But I think, it is slowly becoming about them then about US ( the people). I agree, all primary needs to complete befor super delegates votes. But after that, super delegates need to jump in and help party move on to next step.

Why is it that Hillary feels so entitled to be the next president?

No matter what?

That it's just got to be HER?

Okay, forget about Obama and Clinton for a minute. Seriously. Put your petty media-fed bias aside and think about what's happening to the voters in MI and FL. They are being screwed by the DNC if their votes don't count.

Florida had a record turnout! Eh, nevermind that. Obama is the saviour right? Change you can believe in...what a joke.

The DNC has messed this up and made it all stupid. Did you realize three other states violated the same rule and didn't get punished? Those three states: IA, NH and SC. Did you realize the DNC didn't follow the rules when stripping the delegates? They were supposed to conduct an investigation to find out if the Democratic leaders in those states acted in "good faith". They didn't. They waived the penalty for three states and gave the most severe punishment to two.

How can anyone support such arbitrary application of the rules? Pathetic.

And enough about MI voters not being able to vote for Obama because he wasn't on the ticket. He took his name off when he didn't have to. He didn’t make the effort to get his name back on the ballot when he had the chance and knew that Hillary was leaving her name on it. He didn’t file the paper work to be eligible as a write in.
Obama made a bad decision. It's his fault nobody in MI got to vote for him. End of story. Obama supporters, grow up and stop making excuses for him.

I don't like either candidate and the Democratic Party is full of so much BS. The only right thing to do is to ensure the right of The People to vote. This is not about Clinton or Obama. This is about voters getting the shaft for no good reason.

I think Clinton wants the votes to count for the wrong reason but at least she wants them counted. Obama is supporting Party power over The People's right to vote. Great. Some change. But hey, he inspires hope! So screw The People!

Furthermore, who cares what spineless Nancy Pelosi says? The first thing she did as Speaker of the House was "take impeachment off the table". Bill Clinton gets impeached for some silly intern fun by some ruthless Reps and the Dems can't even go after Bush for war crimes? Thank you Nancy Pelosi for allowing the criminal Bush Presidency continue.

Seat all the delegates from both states as the voters allotted them and let the MI uncommitted delegates choose at the convention. Anything else is profoundly undemocratic and a scam.

If you support the delegates being stripped from these states you are undemocratic, unAmerican and full of crap.

voiceOFreason

Without having the opportunity to campaign in either state, Senator Clinton had an enormous advantage simply due to name recognition and the votor's satisfaction with her husband's accomplishments (unfortunately, memory selects for the pleasant and screens out the more painful recollections). Barack has always gained relative to Hillary the more he has had a chance to personally present his case to votors. To blindly accept the results as they are would be akin to having a trial with the Jury deciding on the fate of the accused before the opposing attorneys have had any chance to present their case. Senator Obama has been gracious at every turn regarding his opponent, and will probably forge a compromise allowing her some unearned advantage in the delegates seated from those two states. The question is, when will Senator Clinton realize that she has been treated far more than fairly and demonstrate that she is gracious in defeat?

Okay, forget about Obama and Clinton for a minute. Seriously. Put your petty media-fed bias aside and think about what's happening to the voters in MI and FL. They are being screwed by the DNC if their votes don't count.

Florida had a record turnout! Eh, nevermind that. Obama is the saviour right? Change you can believe in...what a joke.

The DNC has messed this up and made it all stupid. Did you realize three other states violated the same rule and didn't get punished? Those three states: IA, NH and SC. Did you realize the DNC didn't follow the rules when stripping the delegates? They were supposed to conduct an investigation to find out if the Democratic leaders in those states acted in "good faith". They didn't. They waived the penalty for three states and gave the most severe punishment to two.

How can anyone support such arbitrary application of the rules? Pathetic.

And enough about MI voters not being able to vote for Obama because he wasn't on the ticket. He took his name off when he didn't have to. He didn’t make the effort to get his name back on the ballot when he had the chance and knew that Hillary was leaving her name on it. He didn’t file the paper work to be eligible as a write in.
Obama made a bad decision. It's his fault nobody in MI got to vote for him. End of story. Obama supporters, grow up and stop making excuses for him.

I don't like either candidate and the Democratic Party is full of so much BS. The only right thing to do is to ensure the right of The People to vote. This is not about Clinton or Obama. This is about voters getting the shaft for no good reason.

I think Clinton wants the votes to count for the wrong reason but at least she wants them counted. Obama is supporting Party power over The People's right to vote. Great. Some change. But hey, he inspires hope! So screw The People!

Furthermore, who cares what spineless Nancy Pelosi says? The first thing she did as Speaker of the House was "take impeachment off the table". Bill Clinton gets impeached for some silly intern fun by some ruthless Reps and the Dems can't even go after Bush for war crimes? Thank you Nancy Pelosi for allowing the criminal Bush Presidency continue.

Seat all the delegates from both states as the voters allotted them and let the MI uncommitted delegates choose at the convention. Anything else is profoundly undemocratic and a scam.

If you support the delegates being stripped from these states you are undemocratic, unAmerican and full of crap.

voiceOFreason

Anyone tempted to believe the Clinton's latest ridiculous lie that the press is "covering up" the fact that she would run more successfully against CcCain than Obama should check out the latest Zogby poll on the matter, which shows Obama to be the MUCH stronger candidate against him. Read it at:

http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1511

If you watched a Game Played in 1970 today and you know the results and who won the game, would you still bet on it?
Then why do people still vote for Clinton.Don't these people know simple math or are they so naive and gullible.
Can this reality get anymore stupider !!!!!!!!!

Lets all face it the Clinton's are power hungry , they want the whitehouse back at any cost, so they can rent out the rooms for millions of dollars to the Chinese Communists. and sell the Chinese more advanced technology , that would've taken them hundreds of year to develop if it weren't for Billy Clinton . Just look at the pictures of him hugging all the terrorists at the Whitehouse ,the likes of arafat and others that wanted nothing but the total destruction of Israel.
His sickening openness to homosexual immorality , do the city names of Sodom and Gomorrah ring any bells.

Ok, so Obama is the chosen one because the media and the DNC blessed him.
Why continue to bash Hillary, all she has done is run into a wall of mother *#s
and ex-wife haters who hate women and babies because they think abortion is a god send to save them from the responsibility of caring for them.

The audacity of hope!

TFR

Dear Hillary supporters -

Is it possible to oppose Clinton and not be a misogynist?

How come every time Hillary won a primary, she beat Obama fair and square but when ever Obama won, it was because Hillary was cheated by the media and the old-boys network?

Are the Clintons responsible for anything?

Hillary, had a chance to prove her metal and lost to an unknown. If she can't put away an unknown what chance would she have against McCain. Some of the votes she's been getting will go to McCain I doubt any of Obama's will. It's not reasonable to think she a better canidate she started the campain on third base and couldn't win the contest. Right now she is playing spoiler and the hope she is holding out for an RFK type upset is very sad. This is the kind of hope we can do without.

Saying that taking the nomination to the floor of the convention would "wound" the party is laughable at best. We, the Democrats, are going to lose the election in November. Period. And this fiasco will end up being a case study in how NOT to run a party in an election year as important as this one was. Literally, Howard Dean and all these so-called, "Super delegates" have just trashed our chances by supporting Barack Obama instead of a sure thing we had in Hillary Clinton. Believe it or not, the majority of us Democrats out here are not sheep that will follow no matter what. Women, blue collar workers, and Clinton supporters in general simply with either not vote or vote for McCain. We don't like Obama, resent him being forced fed to us and are seething at our own party for being so stupid!

Stay tuned for the season finally of the Obama-Mama-Drama!

I don’t want to spoil the ending by telling you that Obama emerges the victor; oops!

Hillary, the Queen of Spin and a Legend in Her Own Mind!

http://klintons.com

Dear Posted by voiceOFreason May 29, 08 05:48 PM & May 29, 08 05:36 PM:

I find it interesting that YOU are the "Voice of Reason," but the rest of us Obama supporters are "Koolaide Drinkers" with a "media-fed bias, possessing no ability to think, reason, or come to sound conclusions based upon the use of our own mental faculties.

Anyway...

Hillary Clinton is the consummate "Washington insider," and a picture perfect definition of what is wrong with Washington. She has proven this beyond a doubt, and the history books will record her errors. Try as you may, you will never be able to make the case that the DNC is the culprit.

I continue to be amazed at the utter inability of so many people like yourself to be so totally unable to see the flaws in what she is doing. Like her, you shift all the blame for what has gone wrong to others.

You have concluded that the people of MI and FL are "being screwed by the DNC if their votes don't count." You say:

"...Did you realize three other states violated the same rule and didn't get punished? Those three states: IA, NH and SC. Did you realize the DNC didn't follow the rules when stripping the delegates? They were supposed to conduct an investigation to find out if the Democratic leaders in those states acted in "good faith". They didn't. They waived the penalty for three states and gave the most severe punishment to two."

This reminds me of the person who gets pulled over for speeding in rush hour traffic who says: "I was not the only one speeding. Why are you picking on me?"

Did FL & MI violate the rules? Yes! Were they warned in advance what would happen if they persisted with their rule-breaking? Yes. They saw the DNC standing in the middle of the highway with a radar gun. The DNC said: "If you speed... you will be ticketed."

So FL & MI called the DNC's bluff... but they got ticketed, and you cry foul.

Furthermore... no one from the Clinton camp said a word when it was announced that FL & MI would be "cited as promised" for their infraction. Neither did you, I am sure. But all of a sudden, when Hillary failed to wrap up the nomination on Super Tuesday as promised... and after this political "unknown" named Barak Obama starts to run away with "her" election... we suddenly begin to hear you, Hillary, and the gang talking about the importance of FL & MI, Democracy, and the importance of "counting every vote."

First of all, that is utter hypocrisy. It is highly probable that you could not care less about either state. If you did, I am sure your post would have indicated your speaking out about this supposed injustice when it FIRST happened... in the beginning... not after it became apparent that having their votes would help Hillary.

Second of all... they did it to themselves. Yes, the "people" of FL & MI are getting screwed over. They did not violate the rules themselves, or ask for the rules to be violated. But the true culprits are the officials that tried to call the bluff of the DNC... and lost.

And as history has already shown... had they stayed in their regular time-frame, they could have had the impact that they desired to have in the first place.

So what is the answer? First and foremost... Take responsibility. Remember what your parents taught you about actions and consequences? This is what they were talking about.

And if you really are as bothered about this as you intimate, seek out the shortsighted officials that made this collosal blunder, and hold them accountable. That is who you should really be angry with.

I can't help but observe that it's the Clinton supporters who keep attacking and accuse Obama supporters of hating women, being duped, and supporting a candidate who was simply anointed by the media and the DNC. Meanwhile, Obama supporters on this board pretty much don't have to go any farther than to point out that at the time of the MI and FL primaries, Hillary Clinton fully supported the fact that those elections wouldn't count. The only people being duped are the ones that think that Clinton is doing anything other than trying to change the rules after the game. And THAT is the most pathetic thing of all.

The fact is, it was CLINTON'S campaign to lose, and she did so in spectacular fashion. Next time around maybe she'll think twice about hinging her campaign on sleazy attack dogs like Carville, Penn, Wolfson, etc.

TellinTheTruth says: History books will record her errors???? I didn't realize she was President already! I am in complete agreement with voiceOFreason! I can't possibly tolerate the thought of voting republic (replusican is more like it) so since all votes aren't going to count and it is quite clear that since we can't pray in school anymore or stand united (and NO IT IS NOT HILLARY'S FAULT) this is truly not America anymore - also because we are being FORCE FED this "man" as our next potential president I already feel like a disenfranchised voter and a CUBAN resident - I will not vote and I will urge my children not too either. I don't like being told who to vote for. That is not what this country was founded on or why our soldiers die, yet somehow YOU (OBAMA SUPPORTERS) have lost that along the way. It's sad actually. This was the very first election my children were getting involved in. They already asked my advice and I told to sit this one out. This is not our country anymore. I have never seen this done where some votes are counted and others are not - the DNC has completely made a mess of this whole process (not the candidates who have to play by DNC rules) so don't bother with this. Get ready for more Bush policies or even worse should Odrama get elected, keep a low profile and see if the next process gets any better. If not, consider a new country. I'm thinking Ireland....the DNC should hang their collective heads in SHAME!!!

Pelosi, Dean have shown poor DNC leadership. All votes should count. Lack of unity on this point from the beginning of a crucial primary season has set a negative tone throughout. Many Clinton supporters feel that they have not been neutral and have done much to undermine Clinton's candidacy, particlarly not allowing the process to go to the convention. As a result , the Dems will loose a block of support if Obama is the candidate.

Hillary knew in advance

that the votes wouldn't be counted in Fla and Mich.

because those two states went against the set-rules.

So why is she and her followers up in arms now?

Many people there did not bother to vote,

knowing that the votes would not be counted.

My wife/I were life long Democrats (40 years+); now are X-Democrats. I really believe Al Gore got shafted in 2000. I never ever thought the DNC would pull off the same stunt within the Democrat Party. The DNC has stooped to the Republican Party standards. No one will ever convince us that every voter vote counts. What ever happened to American Democracy? By the way we’re not pro Hillary. We’re pro true Democracy!